[Basic] Christmas Mentors & Maffia

[Elaevia]

My gut is telling me to vote Hoof: I have read over posts by both him and krak, because I think at least one of them is mafia. I think Krak has responded better to questions others have asked him, and explained his posting and reasoning better.

 

Re: reading peace's posts: his vote on Golden: he gave his reasons for the vote, but then there were additional ones later on, makes me lean town as there was a lot of town for him to find an excuse to vote someone else (Nolder for example as peace said he found him quite scummy earlier in the game). then there was a drop in his posting, which was explained by sickness. I came out of reading thinking null, leaning slightly town.

 

But I think it deserves another read through - but tomorrow as its late here

[Tommyrod]

You mean Peace and Via right? I already had Hallia as a town read at the time.

 

Yo Cloud. No, I meant the discussion you and Via had about Hallia's "vindicated" comment. I thought you were giving Via fuel for the Hallia fire but on second read don't think it really means anything.

[Tommyrod]

My gut is telling me to vote Hoof: I have read over posts by both him and krak, because I think at least one of them is mafia. I think Krak has responded better to questions others have asked him, and explained his posting and reasoning better.

 

Re: reading peace's posts: his vote on Golden: he gave his reasons for the vote, but then there were additional ones later on, makes me lean town as there was a lot of town for him to find an excuse to vote someone else (Nolder for example as peace said he found him quite scummy earlier in the game). then there was a drop in his posting, which was explained by sickness. I came out of reading thinking null, leaning slightly town.

 

But I think it deserves another read through - but tomorrow as its late here

 

So if you had a gun to head right now you'd lynch Hoof first over Peace or Krak? I'm looking for people to take a firm stance so we know who thinks what. It's too late in the game to not be taking sides. 

[Nolder]

I'm not sure why you're ignoring the interactions Golden had with both me and Peace that would make you think the two of us are mafia, yet ignoring his interactions with both Hoof (him changing his read on Hoof from scum to town) and Via (see the post I quoted above by Cloud) which are more damning, IMO. Peace and I had it out and came to enough of a resolution that I am satisfied with that just as Cloud and Elf did in D1, or Turin and I did -- and in addition, Peace's interaction with Golden, as I've said a few times and I think others have said, is pretty clearing for Peace. So I think Peace is town and I am town, thus: you're way off base with your reads and need to reconsider.

I'm not ignoring interaction, I'm just not putting such heavy stock in what people SAY so much as what they DO.

 

To further the point of how far off base you are: your case on Krak makes no sense to me.

Well that's because it's not a case.

Mafia tends to be a what have you done lately game in most cases.

I thought Krak had a good start and I defended it as such but I haven't seen him do or say anything I'd consider townie lately. Meanwhile I have people all game calling him scum. I know all these people can't be scum themselves so either they're wrong or I'm blind. I'm erring on the side that I'm blind because it's happened before. And as I said yours and Peace's votes on Blackhoof reassured me that if there is a side to take I'm taking the right one.

[Tommyrod]

 

I'm not sure why you're ignoring the interactions Golden had with both me and Peace that would make you think the two of us are mafia, yet ignoring his interactions with both Hoof (him changing his read on Hoof from scum to town) and Via (see the post I quoted above by Cloud) which are more damning, IMO. Peace and I had it out and came to enough of a resolution that I am satisfied with that just as Cloud and Elf did in D1, or Turin and I did -- and in addition, Peace's interaction with Golden, as I've said a few times and I think others have said, is pretty clearing for Peace. So I think Peace is town and I am town, thus: you're way off base with your reads and need to reconsider.

I'm not ignoring interaction, I'm just not putting such heavy stock in what people SAY so much as what they DO.

 

To further the point of how far off base you are: your case on Krak makes no sense to me.

Well that's because it's not a case.

Mafia tends to be a what have you done lately game in most cases.

I thought Krak had a good start and I defended it as such but I haven't seen him do or say anything I'd consider townie lately. Meanwhile I have people all game calling him scum. I know all these people can't be scum themselves so either they're wrong or I'm blind. I'm erring on the side that I'm blind because it's happened before. And as I said yours and Peace's votes on Blackhoof reassured me that if there is a side to take I'm taking the right one.

 

 

It's just weird that you're so convinced Peace and I are scum, when I don't think the two of us would ever be scum together to begin with given our heavy early battling. As for your game theory, I'd say you're half right. Mafia will leak the most information early game. So mafia-spew is best from D1 or D2, and after that, voting patterns and stances become more important for the remaining players; that's why I want people to be crystal clear about where they stand. 

[Elaevia]

@tommy: yep hoof

[Krakalakachkn]

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I'm fine with either a Cloud of Hoof lynch. Pretty sure both are scum, rated in that order. What has Cloud really done this game other than harp on me and faux scum hunt? Sure he was on Golden's lynch, but I'm not clearing him for that. Looks like he's getting giddy ever since BFG posted his math read and Elf was modkilled.

 

I'm fine with going for Hoof today though. ##Vote Hoof.

 

 

This actually made me laugh. You did a good job with delaying your OMGUS vote on me for so long.

 

What have I really done this game? Oh I don’t know. I have only been right about most of my town reads so far and I’m pretty confident that I have pegged the remaining mafia members too. You know as much as anyone else here that you weren’t the only person I have harped on so please don't try to act like I have been tunneling on you all game long. It’s also very easy to accuse me of fake scumhunting without providing any sort of proof or reasoning why you think so.

 

 

It's also good to know that Hoof is town.

 

-------------------------

Dude...that was like the opposite of an OMGUS vote. The mere fact that you called it an OMGUS is enough to label you scum. That was a serious slip.

 

-------------------------

 

 

@Hoof - what do you really have on Cloud that's actually beneficial to town?

 

 

I find it interesting how you said “you” instead of “we” before you mentioned town. A possible scum slip?

 

That's the best you got? It's come to reaching for pronoun slips?

 

When I said 'you' I obviously meant you as in Hoof, which makes 100% sense in the context I used. Now if you had commented on how I said 'town' instead of 'us,' then that would be better, but still a reach.

[Krakalakachkn]

 

I'm not sure why you're ignoring the interactions Golden had with both me and Peace that would make you think the two of us are mafia, yet ignoring his interactions with both Hoof (him changing his read on Hoof from scum to town) and Via (see the post I quoted above by Cloud) which are more damning, IMO. Peace and I had it out and came to enough of a resolution that I am satisfied with that just as Cloud and Elf did in D1, or Turin and I did -- and in addition, Peace's interaction with Golden, as I've said a few times and I think others have said, is pretty clearing for Peace. So I think Peace is town and I am town, thus: you're way off base with your reads and need to reconsider.

I'm not ignoring interaction, I'm just not putting such heavy stock in what people SAY so much as what they DO.

To further the point of how far off base you are: your case on Krak makes no sense to me.

Well that's because it's not a case.Mafia tends to be a what have you done lately game in most cases.I thought Krak had a good start and I defended it as such but I haven't seen him do or say anything I'd consider townie lately. Meanwhile I have people all game calling him scum. I know all these people can't be scum themselves so either they're wrong or I'm blind. I'm erring on the side that I'm blind because it's happened before. And as I said yours and Peace's votes on Blackhoof reassured me that if there is a side to take I'm taking the right one.

 

 

Who besides Hoof and Cloud?

[keyholder21]

I'm not voting at the moment key, but at the moment would prefer to lynch hoof - I'm not really won over by the 'I don't know how I can convince you I'm town arguement'

 

I'm not voting at the moment because me voting either Hoof or Krak would put them at L-1 ready for an easy hammer: and kinda feel that we should make the most of this discussion time while we can.

 

Bolded - Just who are you afraid would drop the easy hammer?

[keyholder21]

 

 

@ Key - I'm commenting at a discussion that was happening a little while ago. I quoted you to illustrate what I was commenting on, though my post wasn't aimed directly at you, which I could have made clearer.

 

@ Cloud - I am trying to remember how long you have been setting up my lynch from, I think it's almost the entire length I've been in the game!

 

Attempt to discredit both of them?

 

Yes, and it appears that I'm doing an exceptionally poor job at it too.

 

ah well, practise makes perfect I suppose!

Does anyone know Via well enough to say if this is typical behavior from her -- laughing off strong accusations?

 

 

 

How was that discrediting Key?

 

This is what I was responding to:

 

 

 

 

@Cloud - I disagree about mafia team not working in tandem when it comes to emotion. I have seen, and been a part of, QT's where teammates are telling others to chill, or be careful with their responses when it comes to emotion. If people are working together as a team, why rule that possibility out?

I have edited this quite as I am just commenting in this bit.

 

I think the influence the mafia team has on each others would vary very much depending on who the team is, how emotional or otherwise they are as a person, the time zones they are in and when they have had a chance to read the thread and post in the QT...... So really too many factors to judge right now.

 

Though in theory that is how a mafia town would work, watching each others backs, but in this case wew can't start supposing on what is happening on the mafia thread.

 

Why do you choose this to respond to out of everything else that's been said recently? That's weird to me. Also, it's way less about what's on the mafia QT and more about Krak's aggressive post and whether it should be viewed as scummy or not.

 

 

and the thing with cloud - I found it amusing, pure and simple! it seemed like I was always cloud's secondary mafia suspect, not matter who was first: I called him on it, he admitted it but in a self depreciating kinda way - it struck my funny bone, that's all.

 

It wasn't that you commented on this particular thing, Via. It's that this was the one of the ONLY things you said at the time. It's very inconsequential and looks like you are trying to look involved in the thread when you are not really (a scum tactic since they already know alignments).

[keyholder21]

@ Krak - why do you think leelou was NKed?

Krak, did you answer this? If so, I missed it.

[keyholder21]

 

 

@Hoof - what do you really have on Cloud that's actually beneficial to town?

 

I find it interesting how you said “you” instead of “we” before you mentioned town. A possible scum slip?

 

That's the best you got? It's come to reaching for pronoun slips?

 

When I said 'you' I obviously meant you as in Hoof, which makes 100% sense in the context I used. Now if you had commented on how I said 'town' instead of 'us,' then that would be better, but still a reach.

 

I agree with Krak here. I don't understand the problem with what he said. He is CLEARLY using "you" in reference to Hoof.

 

Regardless though, how would using 'you' instead of 'we' be a scum slip here? Please explain.

[Blackhoof]

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I'm fine with either a Cloud of Hoof lynch. Pretty sure both are scum, rated in that order. What has Cloud really done this game other than harp on me and faux scum hunt? Sure he was on Golden's lynch, but I'm not clearing him for that. Looks like he's getting giddy ever since BFG posted his math read and Elf was modkilled.

 

I'm fine with going for Hoof today though. ##Vote Hoof.

 

This actually made me laugh. You did a good job with delaying your OMGUS vote on me for so long.

 

What have I really done this game? Oh I don’t know. I have only been right about most of my town reads so far and I’m pretty confident that I have pegged the remaining mafia members too. You know as much as anyone else here that you weren’t the only person I have harped on so please don't try to act like I have been tunneling on you all game long. It’s also very easy to accuse me of fake scumhunting without providing any sort of proof or reasoning why you think so.

 

 

It's also good to know that Hoof is town.

 

-------------------------

Dude...that was like the opposite of an OMGUS vote. The mere fact that you called it an OMGUS is enough to label you scum. That was a serious slip.

 

-------------------------

 

 

@Hoof - what do you really have on Cloud that's actually beneficial to town?

 

I find it interesting how you said “you” instead of “we” before you mentioned town. A possible scum slip?

That's the best you got? It's come to reaching for pronoun slips?

 

When I said 'you' I obviously meant you as in Hoof, which makes 100% sense in the context I used. Now if you had commented on how I said 'town' instead of 'us,' then that would be better, but still a reach.

My question stands- what have you done that is beneficial to the town? Cloud has done more than most, I don't know what you have on him.

This random attack reeks of a desperate attempt to set up a lynch after I flip town, because when I do, you will look terrible, and you have trapped yourself with no valid lynch targets but me.

 

My death will seal the town's victory, and so I will be content with that.

 

But you know... living is good too.... :P

[Krakalakachkn]

 

@ Krak - why do you think leelou was NKed?

Krak, did you answer this? If so, I missed it.

I didn't and I don't know. Obviously Via and I were in the perverbial hot seat as far as certain people were concerned. If Nolder is actually Doc then that wifom between him and BFG is reason to stay away from them, and though I hate to say it, (if I were scum) I'd have gone for BFG rather than Leelou (I know, I know, but still). Peace and Tommy are wild cards, so I think it came down to you or Leelou and since you came out as Mason they took the chance on taking out a PR. I think Leelou was a town read for most people.

[keyholder21]

What do you mean since I came out as mason?

[keyholder21]

I didn't and I don't know. Obviously Via and I were in the perverbial hot seat as far as certain people were concerned. If Nolder is actually Doc then that wifom between him and BFG is reason to stay away from them, and though I hate to say it, (if I were scum) I'd have gone for BFG rather than Leelou (I know, I know, but still). Peace and Tommy are wild cards, so I think it came down to you or Leelou and since you came out as Mason they took the chance on taking out a PR. I think Leelou was a town read for most people.

 

 

 

Bolded - Nolder and I came out AFTER the NK.

[Krakalakachkn]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I'm fine with either a Cloud of Hoof lynch. Pretty sure both are scum, rated in that order. What has Cloud really done this game other than harp on me and faux scum hunt? Sure he was on Golden's lynch, but I'm not clearing him for that. Looks like he's getting giddy ever since BFG posted his math read and Elf was modkilled.

I'm fine with going for Hoof today though. ##Vote Hoof.

This actually made me laugh. You did a good job with delaying your OMGUS vote on me for so long.

What have I really done this game? Oh I don’t know. I have only been right about most of my town reads so far and I’m pretty confident that I have pegged the remaining mafia members too. You know as much as anyone else here that you weren’t the only person I have harped on so please don't try to act like I have been tunneling on you all game long. It’s also very easy to accuse me of fake scumhunting without providing any sort of proof or reasoning why you think so.

It's also good to know that Hoof is town.

-------------------------

Dude...that was like the opposite of an OMGUS vote. The mere fact that you called it an OMGUS is enough to label you scum. That was a serious slip.

-------------------------

@Hoof - what do you really have on Cloud that's actually beneficial to town?

I find it interesting how you said “you” instead of “we” before you mentioned town. A possible scum slip?

That's the best you got? It's come to reaching for pronoun slips?

When I said 'you' I obviously meant you as in Hoof, which makes 100% sense in the context I used. Now if you had commented on how I said 'town' instead of 'us,' then that would be better, but still a reach.

My question stands- what have you done that is beneficial to the town? Cloud has done more than most, I don't know what you have on him.

This random attack reeks of a desperate attempt to set up a lynch after I flip town, because when I do, you will look terrible, and you have trapped yourself with no valid lynch targets but me.

My death will seal the town's victory, and so I will be content with that.

But you know... living is good too.... :P

@Bold: Except for, you know, Cloud.

 

@Italicized: Oh really? Tell me more about who you would lynch after me?

[Krakalakachkn]

 

 

I didn't and I don't know. Obviously Via and I were in the perverbial hot seat as far as certain people were concerned. If Nolder is actually Doc then that wifom between him and BFG is reason to stay away from them, and though I hate to say it, (if I were scum) I'd have gone for BFG rather than Leelou (I know, I know, but still). Peace and Tommy are wild cards, so I think it came down to you or Leelou and since you came out as Mason they took the chance on taking out a PR. I think Leelou was a town read for most people.

 

 

 

Bolded - Nolder and I came out AFTER the NK.

The point on you still stands (minus the mason part) and as for Nolder, well, I guess the thing with Peace. Like I said, I'm not sure, but Leelou was more outlier than most and gave the least amount of info regarding who would want her dead.

[peacesells]

I have kinda been neglecting the game this weekend because I had other things going on but I managed to catch up again!

 

To answer Tommy's first question. Hoof is the answer.

 

Not on Goldens lynch. Was on Hally's lynch. Has been opportunistic all game.

You and almost everyone else were also on Hally’s train so I don’t like it how you are using it as a reason to push for Hoof’s lynch. It sounds like a cheap way to try and accuse someone of being scum, and it's hypocritical to boot.

 

His combination of not being on Golden's and being on Hallias lynch is what is scummy.  Not the being on Hallia's lynch alone. 

[Andrej]

Vote Count 3.5
 

Krak (3) - Hoof, Cloud, Nolder

Hoof (3) - Peace, Tommy, Krak

 

Not Voting: Key, BFG, Via

5 to lynch.

 

DL will be 10PM PST on Monday, January 13.

[Nolder]

It's just weird that you're so convinced Peace and I are scum, when I don't think the two of us would ever be scum together to begin with given our heavy early battling.

Ever? That is quite the absolute given it's generally supposed to be random.

And why is it just not possible that would be a distancing tactic?

It would make sense if my theory about Goldeneye's is correct.

Maybe Peace wanted to play the "lone wolf" and put as much distance between you and Golden as possible but then reeled back in on you after he got trapped on a Golden lynch.

 

Are you saying this just is not a possibility?

 

 

As for your game theory, I'd say you're half right. Mafia will leak the most information early game. So mafia-spew is best from D1 or D2, and after that, voting patterns and stances become more important for the remaining players; that's why I want people to be crystal clear about where they stand.

I can agree with this statement.

This is why I went after Peace initially.

He refused to come right out and say "I agree with Cloud."

Instead he kept dodging and misdirecting. I still can't think of a reason a townie would do that.

[Nolder]

Who besides Hoof and Cloud?

Turin before he died and IIRC Key.

[csarmi]

It's day 3. 
Deadline: 2013-01-14, 06:00GMT
Timer: End of Day-3

[Nolder]

Hey guys I am going to be out of town from the 18th to the...22nd? I think?

While I'm gone I'm not going to have any internet connection as far as I know.

If it turns out I do I'll check in but if not, well I wont.

I'm not sure if that is too long for Csarmi or what so I'm going to PM him right now about it but I just wanted to let you guys know too.

[csarmi]

Nolder is going to be out of town between the 18th and the 22nd. As he told us well ahead of time, he won't be modkilled. The game will procceed normally.

He'll be expected to try his best to post on thread, and/or to keep contact with us via his QT.