Vampire Diaries Mafia- Mafia Wins!!!

[Basel Gill]

3. This is the wifomiest part of your post. There were three claimed town PR's yesterday. NONE OF THEM were NK'ed. Instead, one of the people questioning Darthe's cop claim was killed. You REALLY think if I was scum I wouldn't have let Tina live to hope that she would support my argument, and take out one of the other PR's?! Come on bro.

You are pushing the Tina thing way harder than you would if you were town. Town-Des would include it in his argument but not hammer it into the ground the way you have been. It's a time-honored scum tactic to kill one townie and then set up another townie as a patsy. I also wonder if Tina's reactions to Darthe gave you the impression that he was fakeclaiming as town, and she might have been the real cop. Did you kill Tina cause you thought she was the real cop?

 

Des

1- Nope, hadn't heard about the lie detector. That answers my question

2- I agree with the concept but disagree with you not character claiming in this instance. If I had my druthers you'd both claim so we can see if someone has a duplicate claim 

I do think it's kind of bs to accuse Darthe for not character claiming and saying you're cool cause you explained why you didn't

4-Darthe, you hit my point, though I expressed it poorly. You flaunted your role at night, you didn't try to create a wifom situation with Basel to throw scum off. It may be a personal play thing, but I would have tried something to create a little doubt should scum try and target you.

I like the way you number things. The number 3 must be scum.

[Arez Al'Loke]

mmhm, I agree with Des on one point, Ley is obviously mafia. But to go as far as to say that the main "pushers" who vote him are mafia has some questionable logic.

 

Sure Mafia would like you kill you if you are what you claim you are, but they wouldn't all band together to do so. Ultimately, it would lead to their end. Are you claiming mafia are stupid enough to attempt something like this? Because I beg to differ. 

I would reckon that no more than 1 or TOPS 2 mafia are actually pushing your train, the others are only bandwagoning, or not even voting at all. For all we know, Golden who is taking your side could very likely be mafia trying to get some townie cred for himself.

 

But yes, you do have a point, counterclaiming at night would be really silly. And I think Darthe (and his teammates??) are perfectly capable of trying to lure a cop claim, should he be mafia.

[Leyrann]

 

3. This is the wifomiest part of your post. There were three claimed town PR's yesterday. NONE OF THEM were NK'ed. Instead, one of the people questioning Darthe's cop claim was killed. You REALLY think if I was scum I wouldn't have let Tina live to hope that she would support my argument, and take out one of the other PR's?! Come on bro.

You are pushing the Tina thing way harder than you would if you were town. Town-Des would include it in his argument but not hammer it into the ground the way you have been. It's a time-honored scum tactic to kill one townie and then set up another townie as a patsy. I also wonder if Tina's reactions to Darthe gave you the impression that he was fakeclaiming as town, and she might have been the real cop. Did you kill Tina cause you thought she was the real cop?

 

Des

1- Nope, hadn't heard about the lie detector. That answers my question

2- I agree with the concept but disagree with you not character claiming in this instance. If I had my druthers you'd both claim so we can see if someone has a duplicate claim 

I do think it's kind of bs to accuse Darthe for not character claiming and saying you're cool cause you explained why you didn't

4-Darthe, you hit my point, though I expressed it poorly. You flaunted your role at night, you didn't try to create a wifom situation with Basel to throw scum off. It may be a personal play thing, but I would have tried something to create a little doubt should scum try and target you.

I like the way you number things. The number 3 must be scum.

 

 

This was a reply to Des replying to GE's points, Des' reply to 3 was "Okay".

[TheRagnarok]

 

And please do point me to where these arguments were consolidated.  Post numbers?

 

I'll do you one better - I'll quote the bad boys for ya!

 

 

Okay short and sweet first.

 

Ooh will I die or will it random?

 

 

Cop.

 

Here is Darthe's "claim". I mean, really it speaks for itself, but to elaborate:

 

He never says "I'm the Cop". I pointed this out before, that he might have been purposefully unclear so that he couldn't be LD'ed, or mebbe even keep from being CC'ed.

 

He taunts everyone with the "will I die or will it random" line. There's no way a cop who is being forced to claim early in a game is gonna be so cavalier about his own death. He's gonna claim and tell everyone to get the heck off of him posthaste. Frankly this is one of the laziest fake claims I've ever seen, can't believe the people who bought it so easily.

 

Next part is- notice who spoke out against it. When a scum has a fake claim like that, they're gonna look out for those who don't seem to buy it, thinking that there's a good chance that person is the actual role that they fake claimed. Tina thought it was bs, and lo and behold she gets NK'ed. I can see a claimed cop not getting NK'ed, obviously the scum team might not want to deal with the wifom about whether he'll get protected. But them killing one of the few people who questioned his claim? Makes it look a lot more like scum knows Darthe isn't the Cop. Also Tina was against Darthe before his claim as well, so Darthe's team might have wanted to shut up one of his detractors.

 

Lastly, and this is more for people who know Darthe's meta fairly well (so like mebbe 2 or 3 of the players left in this game that qualify lol, but if this helps convince them it's worth it). Darthe has been straight up apathetic as hell in recent games. It got me to thinking in another game when he flipped scum- he's done this before. Not too long ago, he kept getting roled as scum again and again, happened like 7 times in a row if I'm not mistaken. Towards the end, he was acting just like he is now, barely even tried making it look like he cared about scumhunting. He'd get rung up early, would try fake claiming, and would often still end up being lynched fairly early in games. Basically he was tired of being scum all the time, and lost his motivation to try and act like he was town. He even admitted as much himself at the time.

 

So fast forward back to the present. He's flipped scum in a couple of recent games, and is once again displaying that same apathetic attitude. Dude keeps getting roled as scum again.

 

Granted, it wasn't nearly as short and sweet as I meant it to be, but this summarizes a lot of the points I made against him. If this is too much to read, I can get you started on a lower grade level first Rags, since I'm a pal!

 

 

Vote Darthe if you like puppy breath, new car smell, or the cooler side of the pillow.

 

Vote for me if these things make you wanna punch a baby.

 

Here you go! That should be short enough for you to read!

 

 

And the sad thing is, this really is quite simple.

 

Darthe had an awful claim while being rung up (Just said "Cop"). Tina and I call the claim bullshanks. Tina is NK'ed, both cause scum prob thought she was the real cop and because she was one of Darthe's biggest destractors. Then he says I'm scum, one of his other biggest detractors. Doesn't say he viewed me, just that he's scum. 

 

And here is where I consolidate some of the simpler parts of my reasoning yet again. Isn't this so helpful! Now you don't have to "tl;dr" my posts anymore Rags!

 

 

And tell me this, everyone. What do you think is more likely?

 

1. That I'm scum and I questioned Darthe's cop claim openly, drawing a ton of attention my way, and then killed one of the few people who might have supported me in an effort to make Darthe look bad, meanwhile letting THREE town PR's live,

 

or

 

2. Scum team killed Tina cause they thought she might be the actual Cop after she questioned the claim as well, and because she was one of Darthe's biggest detractors?

 

While I was at it, I thought I might as well point this out for you as well, it's strong reasoning and it's not too many words for you either!

 

 

But yeah seriously, Rags, EAD... like so many times.

 

 

Mk.

[Basel Gill]

This was a reply to Des replying to GE's points, Des' reply to 3 was "Okay".

Doesn't make it any less amusing the way it looks missing a number.

[Leyrann]

Well, I'd say it was pretty clear, as Des' post was like 3 posts back. So not sure why you bothered saying it looked scummy.

[Basel Gill]

Well, I'd say it was pretty clear, as Des' post was like 3 posts back. So not sure why you bothered saying it looked scummy.

Dude, it was a joke because I'm getting tired of Darthe and Des going after each other in every single game lately and it's starting to make mafia depressing for me. Lighten up.

[TheRagnarok]

 

Well, I'd say it was pretty clear, as Des' post was like 3 posts back. So not sure why you bothered saying it looked scummy.

Dude, it was a joke because I'm getting tired of Darthe and Des going after each other in every single game lately and it's starting to make mafia depressing for me. Lighten up.

 

At least one of them is dying today. 

[Leyrann]

And the other most likely won't last a lot longer...

[GoldeneyesND]

 

Well, I'd say it was pretty clear, as Des' post was like 3 posts back. So not sure why you bothered saying it looked scummy.

Dude, it was a joke because I'm getting tired of Darthe and Des going after each other in every single game lately and it's starting to make mafia depressing for me. Lighten up.

 

 

I got it Basel, that's why I didn't respond. Ley, maybe go grab a cup of coffee and relax? You're coming off a little tense. Goosfraba

[Leyrann]

It's indeed tensing me up a lot if someone plays like that... Come on. Don't get personal, and stay reasonable. Those are supposed to be two basic rules of mafia, right? Des fit neither today.

[wheeloftime13]

Official Vote Count

 

Despo (5/7): Darthe, Basel, Arez, Leyrann, Ragnarok

Darthe (3/7): Despo, AJ, Goldeneyes

 

 

Deadline: Monday December 16 20:00 EST http://www.timeandda...ies Mafia Day 3

[hazelkrs1]

Man. I quoted it right up there for you. By denouncning a post in such a way, yes, you say something personal to the poster. Now, please, GET. F**KING. REASONABLE.

Ley, you can not use profanity like that. And substituting a couple of letters with asterisks isn't allowed either, read the CoC.

 

And I NEVER got personal. I'm allowed to say your post stinks in mafia Ley. If you can't handle this game quit signing up.

[hazelkrs1]

 

3. This is the wifomiest part of your post. There were three claimed town PR's yesterday. NONE OF THEM were NK'ed. Instead, one of the people questioning Darthe's cop claim was killed. You REALLY think if I was scum I wouldn't have let Tina live to hope that she would support my argument, and take out one of the other PR's?! Come on bro.

You are pushing the Tina thing way harder than you would if you were town. Town-Des would include it in his argument but not hammer it into the ground the way you have been. It's a time-honored scum tactic to kill one townie and then set up another townie as a patsy. I also wonder if Tina's reactions to Darthe gave you the impression that he was fakeclaiming as town, and she might have been the real cop. Did you kill Tina cause you thought she was the real cop?

You actually do make some good points here, Basel. I liked this post.

 

I think part of the reason I'm mentioning Tina's name a lot is because to me that's strong evidence to show that Darthe is lying. However, you do make a good point that its technically possible that I could be scum and figured Darthe might be lying and NK'ed Tina cause I thought she was the real cop.

 

Its actually still wifom, but its not unreasonable or completely unlikely of a possibility. I can tell you its wrong, but obviously you don't know me to be telling the truth. At the very least, it gives me some perspective from you why you might still be distrustful of me.

 

If you are town Basel, would you mind looking at the points I did raise against Darthe again and reconsider them, and his play overall this game?

[hazelkrs1]

mmhm, I agree with Des on one point, Ley is obviously mafia. But to go as far as to say that the main "pushers" who vote him are mafia has some questionable logic.

 

Sure Mafia would like you kill you if you are what you claim you are, but they wouldn't all band together to do so. Ultimately, it would lead to their end. Are you claiming mafia are stupid enough to attempt something like this? Because I beg to differ.

I would reckon that no more than 1 or TOPS 2 mafia are actually pushing your train, the others are only bandwagoning, or not even voting at all. For all we know, Golden who is taking your side could very likely be mafia trying to get some townie cred for himself.

 

But yes, you do have a point, counterclaiming at night would be really silly. And I think Darthe (and his teammates??) are perfectly capable of trying to lure a cop claim, should he be mafia.

At first I thought they might be pulling this stunt cause the numbers might be in their favor, but unless the scum team is inordinately large this game, that's doubtful. So yeah, it is unlikely that all of them are scum, but still not technically impossible (there have been games lately where scum team tied themselves together on purpose for wifom cause people wouldnt think they'd be that obvious).

 

Either way, I got Darthe and Ley as definite scum. Rags and Basel are a good bit behind those two, but still wary of either.

[hazelkrs1]

And the other most likely won't last a lot longer...

Really scummy thing to say here Ley. As was you trying to make Basel look scummy for his joke. Youre looking awful this game today.

[hazelkrs1]

It's indeed tensing me up a lot if someone plays like that... Come on. Don't get personal, and stay reasonable. Those are supposed to be two basic rules of mafia, right? Des fit neither today.

1. I never got personal in any way today. Not my fault if youre overly sensitive and don't like getting called out fora scummy post.

 

2. I'm nothing if not reasonable in EVERY mafia game I play!

[hazelkrs1]

Dude, it was a joke because I'm getting tired of Darthe and Des going after each other in every single game lately and it's starting to make mafia depressing for me. Lighten up.

I don't intentionally go after him every game. I just don't like apathetic Darthe in mafia games. He's too good of a player to act like that a lot. Frustrates me. Sorry I make mafia unenjoyable for you though.

[Aidanna]

I have had a busy weekend - reading now

 

Will be back shortly with my thoughts. Lots of posts to read through. 

[Aidanna]

Goodness - lots to think about. 

 

I want to make sure that I say what I want to clearly. 

 

I had problems with Darthe's cop claim earlier on. The CC from Despo just made things hard for me, because now I have to decide who to believe. 

 

My gut wants to believe Despo - I like how active he is. He was on my town list from early on. I don't have any problem with the lengths of his posts, and I personally think being solid in thought process on the thread is more beneficial for town.

 

My gut wants to vote Darthe - I had voted for him previously, and he has always been my top scum read. He doesn't contribute much - and for me learning everything, that is fairly important to me. He still hasn't addressed questions presented to him, and if he flips as the true cop, I would be seriously disappointed in how he played as cop - I think cop role should be helpful to the other townies - and I haven't gotten much help from Darthe. I know my alliance is town, so 

 

Looking at the trains - most of the people camped on Despo's train were those I had pegged in scum roles. I think it maybe a little strange that I would be seeing all those camped on one train - but I don't doubt that scum would be trying to get rid of the cop super quick. 

 

In most of the games I have read, I have been pretty good at figuring out who is scum and who isn't - albeit from a purely spectator point of view. I have been more emotional, as a player in this game, but I think with this whole "who is the real cop" WIFOM we have going on here - I have to go with my gut. If I am wrong, so be it. I distrusted my gut when Darthe claimed cop - it didn't sit right with me, but Despo sits better. It doesn't feel like such an extreme for me to believe Despo, as it would for me to believe Darthe. 

 

I have to go with the one I wanted to vote for during the last day phase - with my gut. 

 

vote Darthe

[Aidanna]

And I just want to say this - someone mentioned I was playing a little better - thank you I'm really trying. 

[dapianoplay3r]

Right let's talk about Darthe

 

First things first. I don't have any info.

Just wanted to buy some time cos it looked like the lynch might go ahead while I was stuck at work and I really feel like Darthe is the liar of the two.

You can proceed now if you want cos this will be my say, but I won't be joining you.

 

Also I thought it might be interesting to see who freaked out if they thought someone had info denouncing one of the two claimers.

 

---

 

Case:

I can't decide if I want to read this game or not. Either way I am here and happy to say so. Based on this page I am betting that Dap is town, Rag surprisingly is as well and AJ has potential. Wombat looks dangerous (as I like him) and Des is back to being setupy which means that he has likely made an ass of himself and is now trying to relieve tension on his slot by stating universal truths.

 

let's vote des

Darthes first post of the game

Who does he go for? Des

Now if he were the cop and this trend continues wouldn't it seem extremely logical to view des N1?

Also note that he says Rag is town in his view at this point

 

Well AJ is town and your vote on Tina looks good.

 

He also says AJ is town and Rag voting Tina is a good move (so he must think Tina is a little scummy right. Cos it was the only vote on her so no evening trains or anything)

 

So darthe starts the game with des and Tina as mafia and AJ, Rag, and I as town

 

 

Then this lol happens

Basel and Dice are town.

 

If they were mafia you would know. Neither of them bother to really weigh their words.

So dice isn't playing. Darthes next post deals with that. But it shows he isn't really focusing on these reads, just throwing them out there.

I don't believe he is missing up games either cos I think the only game Darthe and dice were in was just ending around this time.

 

 

Day ends with Darthe still on Des and with AJ making a Vig claim

They would seem like good picks for Darthe to view as the "cop" right?

Is it just me or is Ley amazingly different from how he was last game?

Plus he even adds this about Ley. Makes sure to lay some groundwork here

I would even be slightly accepting of Ley as a view cos of this post

 

Anyway while we are here

I'm bored I think ill go read the game now.

I Swear if I get NKd while reading again :evil:

Darthe is also making sure to put in that he is a potential NK target (basically just says he's town without actually being that obvious (barely))

 

 

So here are his thoughts during the night. For the sake of fairness lets assume that Darthe would be rereading to help get an idea of who to view

Cool. I am ten pages in. Here is what I got:

Wombat was defensive early on which was odd for him. I can see this as the basis for some people running with his train so jt will be hard to effectively analyze late game.

Hally is safing which is also odd but not scummy.

Early game interactions suggests that we will have a scummer between Andrej and Aidanna. My bet is aidanna.

Rag looks sexy this game. 10/10 would sheep

My spider senses tell me that I shouldn't trust Theo. Or maybe it was that SK game.

Tina is good to go. Her and basel are my two most trusted at this point.

Des has the same number of posts as I do and at this point I'm not even a player.

Arez looks fine.

Should lynch a newbie. Seriously. Its a coached group but each of them are tossing tells.

So once again Rag is town in darthes eyes. Pretty much exactly when he would he picking the a night action.

Remember that guys

 

Onwards!

 

Not anymore. It gets really odd.

 

Unvote vote Des

So Darthe is back to voting des

He does not try to get others to vote des, infact he just messed around.

Not the actions of a cop with a found scum, and the Rag viewing is just plain bizarre

 

I will hopefully have the time to read the whole thread later today. In the meantime I will vote Darthe. I haven´t seen helping out at all this game.

 

 

Vote Darthe

Now Tina joins the party

 

AJ relax on this dude. I'm for some reason not as on my groove as normal so it fits that people find that suspect. You fighting it looks kike white knighting me and isn't going to go ocer well however I flip.

Interesting choice of words here

Darthe says flip, not reveal.

At this point he seems to think it will end with his death or someone else getting the heat and his own train joust losing steam.

Very odd

 

Ooh will I die or will it random?

Cop.

Told you I wasn't worried about a lynch. I've got some good targets in the sheep voters though.

So the actual reveal and follow up post

God.

Good targets? You mean the guy you have been naming mafia since a your first post or the guy you've had a solid town read on from not much after?

 

Most cops would try and get good views out there. Try and narrow the pool as much as possible. Why then would you view someone who you were sure was town anyway. Seems like just a waste. Same question for the des view (but slightly more forgivable cos you two have such a lovely history)

If you are truely cop, then you are playing it so so poorly

 

 

Lol Des's claim attack is gross and I hope he gets vigged.

Which is why you viewed him?

You made no effort the previous day to get him lynched or pressure anyone you thought could be associated with him. So one must assume he had not been viewed yet.

That means you chose to view someone who you had also called to be killed.

That's all just if I humour your farcical claim

If you were actually the cop then you would of known instantly that he was throwing doubt on your claim that wouldn't stick and he could only possibly counter and not be the cop, therefore making a view of des meaningless

So once again if we believe you, you wasted your action.

 

So lets get moving here. Nobody has asked who I viewed which is disheartening but I supoose it waits for morning.

If I die it should be obvious.

Well see no. I expect a des view, maybe.

Rag was the last person I would think you would be viewing. Your town read on him appeared way before N1 and you would have no reason to view someone you thought was town that much.

Makes no sense

 

des is scum

You had nothing to lose sharing that when you claimed or during the night if you had known it already, therefore you must of viewed him N2.

That makes no sense as a real cop would know a CC is BS the instant it happened

 

Seriously do you not even think these things through at all?

 

I'm not trying to barrel over this game but I am the cop and I found mafia. If you kill me I fant find anyone else. Know that Rag is town. It won't make much difference what order we go in though with an outted doc :/ Had really high hopes of sliding through the day more D2. Des IS mafia and he is CCing cop after I caught him. If you aren't voting that then you are wrong, no matter what he weasels.

That's where you say Rag is town

As explained before, des had to be your n2 viewing, and that makes rag your night one. Rag at all doesn't make sense

Plus I notice you never actually say who was when. Did you think you could wriggle out of a NA confliction if one presented it self like this?

You really did not think this through

 

This isn't even questionable. The person I cop viewed went "nuh uh I'm the cop and yoire lying" as if that was going to work. Why is des not dead yet? You've got confirmed scum. Kill it.

Except the person claiming cop doesn't add up. None of his choices he said he made or plays make sense

Is number four a real point? The other three seem directed to Des so correct me if I am wrong for ignoring them. To answer: Once I am revealed mafia needs no incentive to attempt to kill me, I am already a priority target. Any WIFOM or antagonization or instigation that I can use to cause a slip or push out unusual reactions is valuable. Case in point would be the Des push for my lynch in the night. Not exactly a reliable method but I needed quick results after being outted so quickly. My thought on the NK is that Des realized what he had done afterwards and so NK'ed Tina to both attempt to push his angle more and to make himself look better. I am already trying to figure out who was a skiddish enough teammate to reign him in from trying to get either Basel or myself killed. We have some good potential targets and his flip will confirm me forcing their hand pretty quickly.

 

This whole thing reads as if from the moment des doubted your claim you knew he was mafia

Not to mention since your first post you said it.

So you had no, absolutely no, reason to view him

 

That takes me to page 41 and I'm late for work

vote darthe

[TheRagnarok]

If he is telling the truth, viewing me makes sense due to how I fooled him in the Champions game.  He thought I was town there too.

[Hallia]

There's the Dap we know and love.  

 

Vote Darthe

[dapianoplay3r]

I havent read that game. Wasnt aware you fooled him

still why not view someone tiwd to more people or save you till later.

 

It seems a wate to virw just to confirm town cos he gt fooled once