WOT From The Perspective Of Joe Trolloc?

[mockeryjones]

Ever wonder how the average trolloc might view the story of WOT?

 

What exactly would growing up trolloc be like?  All we ever see are full grown rampaging trollocs. It begs the question where are all the Trolloc young?  all the infant Mydraal? 

 

For that matter where are all the Trolloc women at?  Are we to believe that Trolloc barabarism makes them inherently less sexist and more egalitarian than the average Rand lander?  (Excepting of course the Seanchan who not only have women in their army but integrate them as regulars, unlike the aiel who allow their women to fight but still maintain a sexually segregated female warrior society).

 

I've always felt a little bad for the trollocs.  Created, by humans, through no fault of their own.  Reviled and feared since the very genesis of their race.  Prophecied to undergo certain genocide when the light's champion does his thing.  Should we not look at the trollocs as not monsters but as a race of beings fighting their creators for the very right to continue existing? 

 

anyway just food for thought....

 

 

 

 

[Suttree]

For that matter where are all the Trolloc women at?  Are we to believe that Trolloc barabarism makes them inherently less sexist and more egalitarian than the average Rand lander?

Interview: Oct 21st, 2005

KOD Signing Report - Tim Kington (Paraphrased)

Question

What are female Trollocs like?

Robert Jordan

They are basically breeding machines. They give birth to litters, and are quite fierce in defense of their children.

 

 

Interview: Jan 21st, 2003

COT Signing Report - Ajierene (Paraphrased)

Ajierene

I asked if there were any female Fades.

Robert Jordan

Again Mr. Jordan looked up (by that time he was about to sign the next book). He told me how one does not see women Trollocs since they are really just baby machines. Apparently they are barefoot and pregnant somewhere deep in the Blight. Fades are a throwback of Trollocs and no, no female Fades have ever been seen. OK, so the question was dodged a bit. His wife thought Fades were not gender specific, but Robert Jordan said they are. More food for thought.

 

I've always felt a little bad for the trollocs.  Created, by humans, through no fault of their own.  Reviled and feared since the very genesis of their race.  Prophecied to undergo certain genocide when the light's champion does his thing.  Should we not look at the trollocs as not monsters but as a race of beings fighting their creators for the very right to continue existing?

 

 

Interview: Jan 21st, 2003

COT Signing Report - Ajierene (Paraphrased)

Ajierene

I asked if Trollocs could ever do good.

Robert Jordan

He looked up from where he was about to sign my book and told me, "….Trollocs could do good as easily as you could cut up a baby. It just isn't in their nature." Food for thought, so to speak.

[Sabio]

Here is how RJ described them in the Big White Book "  They had the instincts that drives animals combined with the worst human characteristics and a very limited (by human standards) level of intelligence.  Vicious by nature, they manifested plenty of ferocity, killing for no other reason than the pure pleasure of it", this all combined with all trollocs had deceitful and unstable personalities." They are basically so evil they almost were considered a failure since their lust for killing made them uncontrollable in a battle. 

 

So there is no way for a trolloc to do good since there is nothing really in them to make that choice.  They are basically a giant animal that runs on instincts and those instincts are to kill.

[Mefista]

Sorry if that sounds insulting, but I bet OP was inspired by this, ahem, respected piece of work

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Ringbearer

[Ubaydullah Abdul-Malik]

Ever wonder how the average trolloc might view the story of WOT?

 

What exactly would growing up trolloc be like?  All we ever see are full grown rampaging trollocs. It begs the question where are all the Trolloc young?  all the infant Mydraal? 

 

For that matter where are all the Trolloc women at?  Are we to believe that Trolloc barabarism makes them inherently less sexist and more egalitarian than the average Rand lander?  (Excepting of course the Seanchan who not only have women in their army but integrate them as regulars, unlike the aiel who allow their women to fight but still maintain a sexually segregated female warrior society).

 

I've always felt a little bad for the trollocs.  Created, by humans, through no fault of their own.  Reviled and feared since the very genesis of their race.  Prophecied to undergo certain genocide when the light's champion does his thing.  Should we not look at the trollocs as not monsters but as a race of beings fighting their creators for the very right to continue existing? 

 

anyway just food for thought....

 

No,No,No,Pit of Doom Flaming no!   The Trollocs are monsters and nothing more, they kill by nature and are nearmindless savage and cruel. No Social-Asha'manism here,no moral relitavism,no sympathy for the Dark-One. Let us allow the Trollocs to be monsters.

[Mefista]

Hey,mockeryjones, how you even came up with that thought? I am genuinly interested.

 

Asha'manKill!

Exactly my thoughts.

[Lavaliar]

Sorry if that sounds insulting, but I bet OP was inspired by this, ahem, respected piece of work

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Ringbearer

 

Wow, that's about as bad as it gets. You can download a translation (official) online and it's just really bad PC fanfic that completely, purposely misunderstands Tolkien. Blech!

[Mefista]

Lavaliar

I know.It's rather easy to get a bad fanfiction published here [in Russia].They simply don't care [though Evangelion one I've seen at least had all the names changed].

The saddest part is that someone genuinly thought of interprenting canon like this.

[threadnecromancer]

Sorry if that sounds insulting, but I bet OP was inspired by this, ahem, respected piece of work

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Ringbearer

 

That book sounds wonderful, although it reminds me of some (possibly mythical) faux magazine article describing a particularly ugly tribe in the Soviet Union for whom communism was their natural state...

 

 

Speaking of reinterpretations of Tolkien, I greatly enjoyed this one on what would have happened if Sauron had won. https://web.archive.org/web/20120610004938/http://www.johnreilly.info/tghtop.htm

[Lavaliar]

Lavaliar

I know.It's rather easy to get a bad fanfiction published here [in Russia].They simply don't care [though Evangelion one I've seen at least had all the names changed].

The saddest part is that someone genuinly thought of interprenting canon like this.

 

That's crazy! I guess copyright law isn't universal.

 

I'm glad the Tolkien Estate has a tight grip on all of this. Can you imagine of Amazon opened Middle Earth to their inane fan-fic program?

[Suttree]

If people are interested in a very good story which looks at both sides they should check out The Sundering duology by Jacqueline Carey.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sundering_(series)

[Barid Bel Medar]

Let's get back on topic guys. 

 

As to the OP: Trollocs are evil, as said. 

 

They enjoy the massacre and life they lead. Of course, they are scared of the Myrddraal and Forsaken, but they take pleasure in terrorising humans. 

 

The sympathy should go to the Souls which have been twisted. I doubt they were originally like that and Trollocs are the incarnate of all the assholes in previous lives. Some innocent souls must have been destroyed in the process. 

[Zhon]

Ever wonder how the average trolloc might view the story of WOT?

 

This on its own might have some interesting stories to tell.  Not about the personality of trollocs, but how events unfolded from their point of view. 

 

Say we take a trolloc who started off as just a mook when Emonds Field was first attacked, one of the few who are capable of human speech.  He was fortunate to be part of the group to go after Rand's home instead of attacking the village where Moiraine and Lan were.  Through sheer dumb luck he survived both Shadar Logoth and chasing Rand through the Ways, and ended up the leader of an entire fist.  Finally, he ends up at Tarwin's Gap when Rand unleashes the power of the Eye of the World and witnesses everything go to hell before he is slain by the Shienarans who run cleanup duty.

 

In Book 2 we meet a new Trolloc, maybe one who's more savage, or already a higher rank, or maybe just a mook who got caught up by Padan Fain.  They steal the Horn of Valere and run for their lives, constantly on the lookout for Rand's company chasing after.  The village they reached where Fain decapitated the myrdraal.  Having to pose as a puppet in Cairhien later on.  Hiding out in the countryside around Tomon Head while Fain went in to meet the Seanchean.  Seeing the battle in the sky overhead and fleeing for his life.

 

 

And so on and so forth.

[Lavaliar]

I think that most genre readers have been sophisticated enough, for a long time, to understand that there is no such thing as "absolute good" and "absolute evil" in war. I think it's kind of redundant to have so many stories pointing out something so incredibly self apparent. Especially as a supposed "corrective" to Lord of the Rings or other fantasies; it shows that many people haven't read LotR's very carefully.

 

I am actually dismayed by the very vocal sectors of Fandom that want to see Star Wars through the eyes of Imperial Officers etc. It seems we can't stomach the idea of goodness anymore. Believe it or not, history is filled with good people who did good things. That doesn't mean that fantasy has to be two-dimensional. But in a work as vast and complex as WOT I don't think it's a sin to have elements that are there to serve a specific purpose. Trollocs are the classic monsters of mythology. Heroes need monsters. In a way, we're having our monsters taken away from us, and for no good reason. What's ironic is that heroes in a lot of modern fantasy are far worse than orcs or trollocs, capable of sexual assault and outright murder, and millions of readers find that acceptable; but they're still whinging about orcs. Somewhere on the road to having compassion for one's enemy we've ended up in a place where the (real) monsters are the heroes!

 

Maybe our priorities are getting a little muddled?

[Mefista]

Lavaliar

A nice speech, though I think there can be absolute good and absolute evil even in real world.

[Sabio]

I think that most genre readers have been sophisticated enough, for a long time, to understand that there is no such thing as "absolute good" and "absolute evil" in war. I think it's kind of redundant to have so many stories pointing out something so incredibly self apparent. Especially as a supposed "corrective" to Lord of the Rings or other fantasies; it shows that many people haven't read LotR's very carefully.

 

I am actually dismayed by the very vocal sectors of Fandom that want to see Star Wars through the eyes of Imperial Officers etc. It seems we can't stomach the idea of goodness anymore. Believe it or not, history is filled with good people who did good things. That doesn't mean that fantasy has to be two-dimensional. But in a work as vast and complex as WOT I don't think it's a sin to have elements that are there to serve a specific purpose. Trollocs are the classic monsters of mythology. Heroes need monsters. In a way, we're having our monsters taken away from us, and for no good reason. What's ironic is that heroes in a lot of modern fantasy are far worse than orcs or trollocs, capable of sexual assault and outright murder, and millions of readers find that acceptable; but they're still whinging about orcs. Somewhere on the road to having compassion for one's enemy we've ended up in a place where the (real) monsters are the heroes!

 

Maybe our priorities are getting a little muddled?

First off the bad guys in Star Wars always had cooler stuff that why I liked them, even though the empires best troops were seemingly no match for 2ft care bear looking things using rocks and spears.  I don't think its that people really like the bad guys, its just you always read stories or see movies from the good guys point of view.  It just is interesting and different to be able to see things from the bad guys view sometimes.

[mb]

Female trollocs I guess live at Shayol Ghul.

 

Not sure if there are child (or infant) trollocs/myrddraal.  The books have not told one way or the other on that.

There might be some chance that all trolloc offspring get born as adults; or that they become adult shortly after their birth.

[NeverTame]

I'm not entirely sure how it would make any sense to "get born as adults"; there's the sheer size of them to consider and I doubt that female trolloc are so much bigger than the male that they could physically give birth to a full-grown male trolloc.

 

If the time it takes a trolloc to reach adulthood has been mentioned by RJ I'm not aware of it, but they probably don't need as long to mature as humans. Most animals don't (unless I utterly fail at biology, which is entirely possible) and trollocs are closer to beast than human. And I'd imagine that, in designing them, Aginor would have wanted to make them so that they can reach their useful phase (as in, adulthood, or the point at which they become viable soldiers) as quickly as physically possible.