[Advanced] Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy Mafia (Day 6 - Town Wins)

[hazelkrs1]

I also thought he was my best chance to get a guilty, which I kinda need to semi confirm my own sanity.

[csarmi]

I see.

[peacesells]

I got a guilty view last night so that means they are innocent.  It was one of my suspects, not Despo.

 

Desp you are the real cop...I'm insane.

 

 

Csarmi looks like scum to me.  I could vote him or Pral at this point.

[Andrej]

You think Pral would come in and vote both his partners in the manner he has?

 

I'd be good with voting CS as well. Starting to think maybe Mish is trying to give him an out by continuing to bring up a Redirector and him ignoring it as a distance play.

 

Darthe going at Lenlo like he did early on for a semantics slip is making me a little wary on the Turin lynch, now that I think about. He went after Rag similarly and we know he was Town.

 

##unvote vote Csarmi

[hazelkrs1]

@Peace: town having a normal Cop and Insane Cop could be slightly overpowered. Still unsure about you.

 

@AJ: the way Darthe went at Lenlo then stopped makes it look more staged than the way he went after Rags imo. I think that and the fact that Turin fought Darthe's lynch as hard as possible is proof enough.

 

As for CS, seems kinda strange that a scum would fake claim JK of all roles to try and get Rags lynched... Wary of him but not enough to vote just yet.

[Andrej]

I don't think it's that strange. I wouldn't really put it past scum to claim whatever they think might work for them. I think his big thing was he wanted to incriminate Rags by saying he blocked him N2. The claim seems to be a little desperate to me, scum were afraid of Rags because they knew he could kill them.

 

Like I've said probably a dozen times now, having multiple Cops and a back-up fits pretty well since our Doc was protect/kill. Can't really see the JK fitting in there. Also, can we agree that CS is either lying or somehow redirected N2? Rag claimed the kill, and now we see he was legit a CPR Doc.

 

As I just mentioned, I could see Mish trying to continue pushing the Redirector angle in order to provide CS an out in this event.

[hazelkrs1]

Thing is tho- if youre going to fake claim and say you blocked Rags, why not just claim RBer? Hmmm but then again, it could be because he wanted to look more valuable to town....

 

You could be right about CS. But I figure either way we got a good lynch today. Turin, CS, Mish- can't go wrong with that group imo.

[Turin Turambar]

Players
 
1.  Pralaya
2.  Lenlo (replaced by Turin)  Claimed Vanilla Town
3.  Cloud, Bill Haydon, Mafia Godfather, killed Night 2 Viewed MAFIA (innocent by apparent sanity) by Peace
4.  Darthe, Karla, Mafia One-Shot Bulletproof, lynched Day 3 Viewed TOWN (guilty by apparent sanity) by Peace
5.  Salami Claimed Town JailKeeper
6.  Krak, Tracer Bullet, Vanilla Town, killed Night 2
7.  Peace Claimed Cop (appears to be insane) Viewed TOWN by Despo
8.  Mish  
9.  Des   Claimed Cop (appears sane or possibly naive atm)
10.  Tina Viewed TOWN by Despo
11.  Verbal, George Smiley, Town Deputy, lynched Day 2
12.  Ragnarok, Roy Bland, Town CPR Doctor, killed Night 3 Viewed TOWN by Despo
13.  Dap, Jim Prideaux, Town One-Shot Vigilante, killed Night 1
14.  Leelou (replaced by John Snow)
15.  Andrej

 

Okay. Darthe was mafia was not. So I was wrong about the alignments of both of them. Darthe struck me as being Darthe. TBH I generally don't listen to him one way or the other. Rags seemed off to me due to his initial botched claim and the fact that people I had mafia reads on (Despo and AJ) being his main defenders. I still don't feel great about either of them but oh well. I will have to take another look when I get the chance. Going on a two day trip up and down California so will not be able to post much. 

 

Csarmi, Jailkeeper claim but there is a discrepancy now in that Rags was town and was at least telling the truth he did target Cloud N2. So that means either:

CS lied about his role: 

CS got blocked. he wouldn't know. there was a RB in Darthe that could easily have done it. 

Rags got switched with someone else. This is the redirection theory. just as good as anything else I suppose. Mish seems convinced there is a switcher in the game. maybe she is right. Despo also noted the possibilty of a switcher role mebbe I think.

 

Sorry I don't have time to finish my thoughts on this I need to get some sleep. 

[Pralaya]

 

@Despo - it'd be nice if you got a guilty viewing for once. But why view Peace?

Wasn't he kind of confirmed after Darthe's flip?

He wasn't confirmed by a long shot. He was either scum or an Insane Cop. He still could be either, in fact since I'm worried I might be naive, or that my view was tampered with in some way.

 

Completely confirming an Insane Cop would have been more than worth it.

 

 

I would say that if you were a naive cop, then there is a very good chance that he is another variety of cop. I don't expect the setup to be such that there is only one naive cop and nobody else. In either case, I think it absolves Peace for now, since there are no other cop claims in this game.

 

For me, that narrows it down Csarmi, Turin, Mish, Andrej and Snow (and TIna too, if Des actually turns to be naive)

 

Going with my earlier suspicion vote Mish

 

Yes, she did respond that she usually accepts that her play as abd. But, unfortunately, I have not seen her do that in other games even when it has been. Which definitely puts her overdoing the "I am playing bad this game" into spotlight. 

[Niniel]

I got a guilty view last night so that means they are innocent.  It was one of my suspects, not Despo.

 

Desp you are the real cop...I'm insane.

 

 

Csarmi looks like scum to me.  I could vote him or Pral at this point.

 

Who did you view? 

[Niniel]

## Vote Turin

 

He worked hard to get Rag lynched yesterday. Also, Cloud defended Lenlo day 1. 

[michellem]

Huh. I got an innocent viewing on Peace. Go figure. I'm worried I could still be a Naive Cop, but oh well. For now we can assume him to be an insane cop, so the opposite of his investigations must be true. Hard to trust him after he CLEARLY did not want Darthe lynched yesterday tho.

 

Anyways, ##Vote Turin. We'll see about Mish.

 

Mish, I brought up a lot more against you besides you following people.

 

The rest of your points was valid. I'm not gonna bother sitting here and say "I didn't mean it that way" for every point; I told you you are on the wrong track. but I don't understand why you used it as a scumtell that I've admitted to following people; I've already said to you earlier that I'm not gonna use that to blame my votes on others, and that should be enough, I've taken responsibility for every one of my votes without blaming them on others. Both you and Peace can view me next night to check me.

 

I don't think it's that strange. I wouldn't really put it past scum to claim whatever they think might work for them. I think his big thing was he wanted to incriminate Rags by saying he blocked him N2. The claim seems to be a little desperate to me, scum were afraid of Rags because they knew he could kill them.

 

Like I've said probably a dozen times now, having multiple Cops and a back-up fits pretty well since our Doc was protect/kill. Can't really see the JK fitting in there. Also, can we agree that CS is either lying or somehow redirected N2? Rag claimed the kill, and now we see he was legit a CPR Doc.

 

As I just mentioned, I could see Mish trying to continue pushing the Redirector angle in order to provide CS an out in this event.

 

No I keep pushing it because he kept ignoring me even though I asked him numerous times and ignoring the possibility ALL LAST DAY. Wich is not pro-town play in my eyes. In my eyes, if there's NA's not matching up, especially a block/action like that, the most logical, and simple, solution would be either some kind of redirector (or a roleblocker). Not starting to WIFOM about a second mafia team and whatnot.

 

 

 

## Vote Turin

[Turin Turambar]

My earlier point I was trying to.make was that so far all the town roles have had what I would call a "yeah but". Either 1x or at best a trade off so it seems to follow that the cop roles would follow suit. So insane and naive makes more sense than a sane cop and a insane cop. (This is all based on if they are actually telling the truth. Of course).

 

Tina, why are you asking peace about his view? It seems worthwhile to let the person sit for now. I am wagering it wasn't me and I am far and away in front on votes.

 

Right now my inclination would be to vote mish, Tina or possibly aj.

 

If you wanna lynch me today so be it but it will be a mislynch.

 

Len claimed vt on D1 due to the mafia darthe going for an easy lynch. Lenlo can be very flippant when being pressured when town. I think he just got perturbed and decided to make his claim early.

[Niniel]

I asked about it because I still don´t trust him. I want to know who he viewed so that we can see if it´s true/not true when he/she dies. 

[WWWwombat]

Vote Count

Turin(3): Des, Tina, Mish
Salami(1): AJ
Mish(1): Pralaya

Not voting: Turin, Salami, Peace, John Snow


5 to lynch.  Deadline likely sometime on Monday.

[Andrej]

My earlier point I was trying to.make was that so far all the town roles have had what I would call a "yeah but". Either 1x or at best a trade off so it seems to follow that the cop roles would follow suit. So insane and naive makes more sense than a sane cop and a insane cop. (This is all based on if they are actually telling the truth. Of course).

 

Tina, why are you asking peace about his view? It seems worthwhile to let the person sit for now. I am wagering it wasn't me and I am far and away in front on votes.

 

Right now my inclination would be to vote mish, Tina or possibly aj.

 

If you wanna lynch me today so be it but it will be a mislynch.

 

Len claimed vt on D1 due to the mafia darthe going for an easy lynch. Lenlo can be very flippant when being pressured when town. I think he just got perturbed and decided to make his claim early.

 

Reasons?

 

Mish jumping on your wagon sort of sketches me out. I remember Lenlo's early claim and I'm beginning to think that is actually the case here.

[Andrej]

 

Huh. I got an innocent viewing on Peace. Go figure. I'm worried I could still be a Naive Cop, but oh well. For now we can assume him to be an insane cop, so the opposite of his investigations must be true. Hard to trust him after he CLEARLY did not want Darthe lynched yesterday tho.

 

Anyways, ##Vote Turin. We'll see about Mish.

 

Mish, I brought up a lot more against you besides you following people.

 

The rest of your points was valid. I'm not gonna bother sitting here and say "I didn't mean it that way" for every point; I told you you are on the wrong track. but I don't understand why you used it as a scumtell that I've admitted to following people; I've already said to you earlier that I'm not gonna use that to blame my votes on others, and that should be enough, I've taken responsibility for every one of my votes without blaming them on others. Both you and Peace can view me next night to check me.

 

I don't think it's that strange. I wouldn't really put it past scum to claim whatever they think might work for them. I think his big thing was he wanted to incriminate Rags by saying he blocked him N2. The claim seems to be a little desperate to me, scum were afraid of Rags because they knew he could kill them.

 

Like I've said probably a dozen times now, having multiple Cops and a back-up fits pretty well since our Doc was protect/kill. Can't really see the JK fitting in there. Also, can we agree that CS is either lying or somehow redirected N2? Rag claimed the kill, and now we see he was legit a CPR Doc.

 

As I just mentioned, I could see Mish trying to continue pushing the Redirector angle in order to provide CS an out in this event.

 

No I keep pushing it because he kept ignoring me even though I asked him numerous times and ignoring the possibility ALL LAST DAY. Wich is not pro-town play in my eyes. In my eyes, if there's NA's not matching up, especially a block/action like that, the most logical, and simple, solution would be either some kind of redirector (or a roleblocker). Not starting to WIFOM about a second mafia team and whatnot.

 

 

 

## Vote Turin

 

 

Or most simply, he was lying.

 

Why Turin over CS if you found him anti-Town yesterday?

[michellem]

Cause of his connections to Darthe.

 

 

 

I'm not saying I think Csarmi is mafia (on the fence when it comes to him yet). Just that he's being stupid

[hazelkrs1]

Turin's posts don't make me feel any better about him. His reaction to Darthe's flip- "I thought Darthe was being Darthe" is a copout. His analysis of CS's claim- he either "lied about his role" instead of just straight up saying he could be lying tells me he could be trying to protect CS (and he also supported the redirector possibility).

 

@Mish: admitting to following people doesn't all of a sudden make it not a scumtell, and youre NOT really truly taking full responsibility for your vote if you mention following others at all.

[michellem]

I place the vote, my choice, my responsibility.

[Andrej]

Alright so this game is starting to get a little stagnant. I'm seriously seriously thinking Turin is Town and the scum team wants us to lynch him. I looked back over things from the start of the last Day to today. Here's what I got:

 

 

Inb4 salami/rag team

Lol. Totes just been bussing.

 

 

Just thought this was funny lol

 

That's fair enough AJ. But I'm telling the truth here.

Pretty sure of the two teams as well. If you think about it, lynching Rags is the safe choice here.
Cause I'm right about the teams and thus we can't afford mislynches.

 

CS pushing the two-team theory and beckoning for Rag's lynch.

 

Leelou's having internet issues I think.

 

Csarmi, I will ask you again:

Will you not even consider the possibility of a redirector role? You have ignored it when I have brought it up again and again. You say there is no way you could both be telling there truth, and yet there is, but you refuse to acknowledge it.

 

 

We need only one more vote on Darthe for majority.

 

Here's an example of where I said Mish is continuing to push this idea of a redirector although there is no proof for it. Seeing Rags flip as the CPR Doc as claimed, I'm thinking either CS is lying and Mish is providing an out for him or there's a legit RD(although no proof). Either way, these two are my top suspects for today.

 

Mish, are you convinced there is a switcher/bus driver in the game? It is possible but no one has claimed it and there has been no concrete evidence of one to date.

 

Turin seems to be prodding at Mish here to see how she'll respond. She does seem very sure that there's some sort of ability switcher.

 

 

Mish, are you convinced there is a switcher/bus driver in the game? It is possible but no one has claimed it and there has been no concrete evidence of one to date.

 

It bothers me that so many doesn't even consider the possibility. I find that more likely than the double mafia teams and whatnot. It is the simplest explanation, and, well, Occams razor. It bothers me extra much when it comes to Csarmi cause I've brought it up several times and he has ignored me so far.

 

 

Again providing the out. Also, I disagree that it is the simplest explanation. That would be that CS was lying, as it has been proven that Rags was the CPR Doc.

 

We have more time so ##unvote

 

Mish..I consider a possibility..about the same as the 2 scum team theory. 

 

 

Darthe wasn't hammered after I voted.  Strange.

 

Indeed.

 

Where has he positively lied? He called you a liar for claiming a kill while in jail. So you are basically calling each other liars. That Despo and AJ seem to be your main defenders doesn't sit well with me as I find them quite likely mafia as well. The fact that Darthe has sat so long at L-1 for so long is telling. Even rags hasn't hammered him.

If you want cs dead so bad and you are telling the truth then you could just vote Darthe secure the lynch and make your cs kill.

You appear to beating a dead horse for the day. Just like if I tried to start a train on AJ for his opposing mafia team line. It just ain't gonna hunt today.

Darthe, if you don't give your reads I'm gonna hammer you myself.

 

The bolded seems like some legit Townie paranoia. He lists me, Darthe, Des and Rags all as potential scum.

 

Teams:

Rags, Mish, AJ
Pray, Peace, (Cloud)

That work? First one sounds very likely to me.

 

What?? Explain this please. And please don't counter that some flips have changed your mind. I want to know what you were thinking when you posted this.

 

Just going on play its

Mish, -- sure
Peace, Pray, Darthe, Rags -- in that order

Also we don't have enough info on TurinLo. Liked his posts. Just wary for the 9 day skip.

 

Again, what?? This seems to be CS posting his scum reads from greatest to least. Notice who he has last: Rags. Inconsistent much?

 

Are my post being hidden or something? I seem to remember giving direct comments to Des, Csarmi and Pral, and yet none of them acknowledge me. I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

 

Tina's wishy-washy posts here on deciding to move her vote or not gives me an iffy feeling.

 

This post stands out. Tina has already been cleared as Town from Despo. You have reason to doubt that?

 

 

I wouldn't say Peace by any means.

 

His resistance to lynch Darthe yesterday as one of his 'innocent' views after knowing he got a mixed view of Cloud was pretty sketchy.

 

Turin doesn't look too great IMO either. He avoided the Darthe wagon pretty hard yesterday.

 

Good point; it could have been a major gambit to make Peace look good. But I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

 

But Des I would say is cleared. He's gone after Darthe quite strongly. I still want Des to answer me on wich night he viewed Rags though, because he's given what I feel are contradictory answers there.

 

I also still want Csarmi to tell me why he isn't willing to consider the possiblity of a redirector/bus driver.

 

I also want Pral to comment on my answer on his suspicions on me. He does not look very good at the moment at all. Two outlier votes at the end of two days, and he's very eager to push on me, but not willing to follow it up. Tsk.

 

 

CS isn't commenting because of your angst that he isn't. IE: distance move. Also, you really think Pral would come in twice in a row and vote his partners? I'm not buying it.

 

Any preference for my jailing tonight?

 

 

I'm *this* close to kicking you right now Csarmi

 

More back and forth.

 

So did anyone view me?

 

Good case Des, but you're far off I'm afraid ;) And honestly, how can you use it as a point that I've admitted to following people? Had it been better if I denied it? I have. It's what I do when I don't have a good grip on a game.

 

And I've screwed up some, without a doubt.

 

By asking if anyone viewed her it seems like Mish is trying to feel out how strongly she should case today. If someone viewed her in the negative, she would likely be trying to lay low.

 

@AJ - not targeting Rag makes perfect sense, AJ.

I believed there were two maffia teams.

"Protection part" - Kind of exposed Rags as maffia (so I thought anyway), so the other team would shoot him. Simple as that.
"Roleblock part" - No reason to block him as he surely wouldn't be the one to send in any night kill. If he did, he'd probably target me (confirming my claims) or one of the cops (confirming their claims).

And yea, Rags flipping as CPR dox shocked me.

 

Being shocked: I doubt that. Also, your RB part is completely bogus. Your whole point of claiming was to say that you RB'd him N2, therefore he couldn't make the kill.

 

I got a guilty view last night so that means they are innocent.  It was one of my suspects, not Despo.

 

Desp you are the real cop...I'm insane.

 

 

Csarmi looks like scum to me.  I could vote him or Pral at this point.

 

Me or Despo I bet.

[hazelkrs1]

AJ... you're slipping a lot there dude. Climbing back up my scumdar as well.

 

Of course a decent case can be made for Mish, I wouldnt be opposed to her lynch at all. But the case against Turin is MUCH stronger.

 

That first quite of his in your last post seemed more like fishing to me. The part about him thinking me, you, and Rags were scum makes you fell better about him so.show?!?!?! And lastly, you use Mish fosing Tina against her... but Turin himself said he'd be fine with lynching Tina, AJ, or Mish today.

[hazelkrs1]

Plus you've breadcrumbed that you were "starting to think Turin might be town..." now for a while. Just feels like you were trying to sway opinion.

 

Its kinda simple, like Tina said. Turin fought Darthe's lynch extremely hard yesterday, and Cloud defended Lenlo day 1.

 

In fact, you say you think the lynch on Turin might be scum led, yet he only has a few votes on him, and me and Tina are two of those. Two people you supposedly believe to be town. What's up, bro?

[Andrej]

How am I slipping??

 

I'm looking at the big picture man, outside of the last Day's events.

 

Lenlo claimed VT D1 while Darthe was pressuring him. Turin could've very well believed that Rags was scum and therefore was gunning for him so hard yesterday. Granted him opposing the Darthe lynch so hard does make him look bad, but I am trying to consider all the options. I'm not a fan of how Mish seems to continue to introduce outs for CS after his big theory of 2 mafia teams has blown up in his face. This is it: either CS was blatantly lying or he was RD'd/RB'd N2.

 

I'm leaning the first.

[Andrej]

Plus you've breadcrumbed that you were "starting to think Turin might be town..." now for a while. Just feels like you were trying to sway opinion.

 

Its kinda simple, like Tina said. Turin fought Darthe's lynch extremely hard yesterday, and Cloud defended Lenlo day 1.

 

In fact, you say you think the lynch on Turin might be scum led, yet he only has a few votes on him, and me and Tina are two of those. Two people you supposedly believe to be town. What's up, bro?

 

Darthe was also the attacker on D1. Could be that Cloud was defending for Town cred in case Darthe's semantic slip on Lenlo actually took off.