[Advanced] Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy Mafia (Day 6 - Town Wins)

[Pralaya]

 

 

Curious as to why Pral came in a voted Cloud over one of the other trains so close to DL. His check in vote of Leelou without explanation is also something I'd like to hear about.

 

The check in vote was a joke.

 

Asto the other vote, clearly, there was not going to be a random lynch.  Between the option of voting for someone i felt town and no lynch, I preferred the latter. If it was a random lynch with no coroner report, that is a different matter altogether.

 

 

Solid. So you think Cloud is scum then?

 

 

Of course, which is what I said before.

[TheRagnarok]

Anything interesting going on over here?

[Darthe]

Not a damn thing.

[TheRagnarok]

Didn't seem like a ton, more bickering.  Busy last day before the holiday and a show tonight.  I won't be around a ton tomorrow due to travel.

[_CLOUD]

Re: timing - honestly didn't expect to get lynched today, so I wasn't planning on claiming. I only did as I'm not sure how much info Wombat will include in coroner reports, so I wanted to make sure that detail was included.

 

Lol you didn’t expect to get lynched today? Give me a break. Your train has been building up for days. I don’t believe for a second that the possibility of you being the Day 1 lynch after having the highest vote count for so long didn’t cross your mind.

 

 

He should have. This last page is going to be telling late game. A lot of posturing here that I don't quite get the meaning of yet.

A) Didn't want to take a shot in the dark

B) Because I wasn't interested in taking a speedlynch to the face

C) I sense, intuitively or logically, that those people match the alignments that I suspect them of having.

D) You're aggressive phrasing suggest that you're pressing from answers and yet already anticipate dissatisfaction with what they will be. I assume therefore that A through C probably didn't float your boat. Also, goading is good. Keep this up.

You are contradicting yourself with these two posts. In the first post you agree with Tina that Verbal should have been lynched, and then when she asks you why you didn’t vote for Verbal you say that you didn’t want to take a shot in the dark, meaning that you didn’t really believe that he would flip mafia. And how can you call Verbal’s lynch a speedlynch? It has been going on for days with plenty of time to slow down or stop, but Verbal just kept digging his own grave. Lastly, by writing part D you have a convenient reason to brush away any follow up attack that Tina might come up with by saying that you she was suspicious on you in the first place, which doesn’t even disprove the point she made in the first place.

 

Dunno how it works here but we frequently have a town RBer. I've roleblocked scum before, specifically killers, and used that to lynch them as fewer or no kills showed up.

 

Town Roleblockers are also common here. They usually appear as a stand-alone role in an Advanced game, but sometimes they are also part of the arsenal of a JOAT.

 

I am willing to label Darthe and Verb as Town for now. There are other ways to check them anyway and I think eventually we will be able to pin them down now that they are outed if they were lying.

 

Quick glance at the voting from the past Day:

 

Leelou is interesting in that she voted me, Verb and Darthe all at different points.

 

Curious as to why Pral came in a voted Cloud over one of the other trains so close to DL. His check in vote of Leelou without explanation is also something I'd like to hear about.

 

Cloud's vote on me (the biggest train at the time) and then later jumping on the next biggest train with Verb looks fishy.

 

I don’t like it that you are so quick with calling Darthe and Verb town after thinking that both of them might be scum. You say that there are other ways of checking their alignment, but I can think of a dozen ways this could end up going very very wrong. How are you able to pin them down and check if they are lying about their roles?

 

 

*shakes head sadly*

 

Silly Krak. You don't get it. Mafia needs to fake claim to live NOW. It is useless if they will be lynched anyway, as the coroner report will clarify it. Claiming a currently powered role is the best way to ensure they live.....not what I did. I was pretty sure I was dead, and I didn't know if Wombat would include a currently unpowered role in the coroner report. I decided not to take the chance.

 

Why do I need to keep repeating this to people? How hard is it to understand?

 

Yes, you are right that claiming a Cop or Doc would be the most logical and safe move for scum in your position to make, but what if you decided to gamble that you wouldn’t get lynched? It would be then much easier to justify your current claim and explain why it is a town move.

 

All this after the fact defending of claims is just scummy as all get out. That's @ both Darthe AND Verb. Defending claims using the "Mafia would DEF fake claim THIS instead" angle is just retarded. Mafia will claim whatever role they think will help them survive as long as possible, or to sow wifom. Deputy and 1 time RB'er qualify for both of these.

 

Town players would be less concerned with defending their claim than trying to actually find scum. If I was town and peeps didn't buy my claim, at some point I'd just throw my arms up.

 

^^^^^^ This.

 

Pral has also climbed up on my scum list for not being willing to vote for either Verbal or Darthe, and instead he comes up with a weak case on me which appeared to be constructed during the last minute.

[Andrej]

@ Cloud - If you're able to think of a dozen ways to how clearing them via Cop could go wrong, I'm sure you can probably imagine how eventually later in the game we would be able to pin down their actions. I never said me specifically, I said we. As in the Town. Somebody gets blocked one Night, Darthe confirms on thread, etc. There are still ways. Admittedly I haven't played in many Advanced games, so some roles/mechanics will be new to me in this game depending on how complex Wombat made it.

 

You say you don't like me putting them in my Town pile for now. Would you rather just lynch both now that they've claimed to verify?

[Darthe]

ITT Clouds reading comprehension drops hazardously low. Stay tuned for more at 11.

[Andrej]

That's a little uncalled for Darthe.

 

I think English is his second language.

[Darthe]

Welcome to mafia.

[WWWwombat]

When the weird loner kid from the private school went to look for Dap where he camped his RV, he found the door ajar.  Inside lay the lifeless corpse of Dap along with what remained of his wordly possessions: an old rifle, some broken bottles, and a couple dirty magazines.  The cause of death was readily apparent: a close range gunshot wound to the head.  Apparently Dap had survived his ordeal in Budapest only to be finished off as soon as he had been repatriated.

 

 

 

Dap, Jim Prideaux, Town One-Shot Vigilante, has been killed.

 

 

 

Day 2 begins.  8 to lynch.

[_CLOUD]

@ Cloud - If you're able to think of a dozen ways to how clearing them via Cop could go wrong, I'm sure you can probably imagine how eventually later in the game we would be able to pin down their actions. I never said me specifically, I said we. As in the Town. Somebody gets blocked one Night, Darthe confirms on thread, etc. There are still ways. Admittedly I haven't played in many Advanced games, so some roles/mechanics will be new to me in this game depending on how complex Wombat made it.

 

You say you don't like me putting them in my Town pile for now. Would you rather just lynch both now that they've claimed to verify?

 

I wouldn't support a Verbal or Darthe lynch because on their claims alone. I would look at their entire gameplay first and decide from then if they are scum or not. I found it odd that you now seem to dismiss them solely because of their claims after being suspicious about them and even supporting Darthe's lynch. I admit that I can see Darthe's claim being vetted (although that would be difficult), but the same doesn't hold true for Verbal unless the Cop happens to die and he catches a scum with his viewing.

 

 

ITT Clouds reading comprehension drops hazardously low. Stay tuned for more at 11.

 

Care to point out where you think I went wrong?

 

 

That's a little uncalled for Darthe.

 

I think English is his second language.

 

Third actually :P My English is just fine though, but I'm very tired and it's currently almost half 2 in the morning and so my spelling probably suffers for it.

[_CLOUD]

And having said that it's time for me to go to bed.

[Verbal32]

Darthe's claim looks a little better now.

[Andrej]

Interesting.

 

Darthe & Verb - Who are your characters?

[Pralaya]

##vote cloud

 

Same case as earlier. 

 

Basically, the only story in this game so far is Darthe/Verbal vs Cloud/Mish/Desp and others following who they feel is town. 

 

 

 

Ok, read the entire thread.

This post by Cloud stood out for me during the read. Too aggressive during the "joke vote" phase, especially for Cloud.
Getting on to the AJ train was convenient at best.

I think we have played in enough games together for you to know that I tend to be fairly aggressive at the start of a game. This is also one of the reasons why I get lynched so often on Day 1 :P I went into detail why I thought that AJ is scum, but now you make it look as if I just sheeped my vote onto his train without giving any kind of explanation for why I think so.

 

The main reason why I felt you to be aggressive was not because it was Day 1 but because it was right at the early part of the game where others were mainly joke-voting. I know that you are a bit aggressive but not at that early a game.

[Niniel]

RB could be both town and mafia. Darthe is still not playing like town. He refuse to answer questions or gives arrogant answers that doesn´t mean anything. Again - Darthe, why did you say that Verbal should have been lynched when you never voted? 

 

Pralaya´s vote on Cloud just before deadline was really weird. His reason was that Cloud put a serious vote on AJ for being serious but that wasn´t why Cloud voted AJ.

 

Leelou was acting very strange yesterday. First she says that she is willing to hammer Verb, then when she realise that he hasn´t enough votes she asks if we should vote Darthe instead. But afterwards she said that she was ready to hammer Verbal anyway. Why was it so important to hammer? If you were ready to lynch Verbal then just vote him. 

 

Verbal hasn´t done anything that has changed my mind about him. 

 

Rag left his vote on my the whole day even though it clearly wouldn´t lead anywhere. 

 

 

 

 

## Vote Verbal

[_CLOUD]

 

##vote cloud

 

Same case as earlier. 

 

Basically, the only story in this game so far is Darthe/Verbal vs Cloud/Mish/Desp and others following who they feel is town. 

 

 

 

Ok, read the entire thread.

 

This post by Cloud stood out for me during the read. Too aggressive during the "joke vote" phase, especially for Cloud.

Getting on to the AJ train was convenient at best.

I think we have played in enough games together for you to know that I tend to be fairly aggressive at the start of a game. This is also one of the reasons why I get lynched so often on Day 1 :P I went into detail why I thought that AJ is scum, but now you make it look as if I just sheeped my vote onto his train without giving any kind of explanation for why I think so.

 

The main reason why I felt you to be aggressive was not because it was Day 1 but because it was right at the early part of the game where others were mainly joke-voting. I know that you are a bit aggressive but not at that early a game.

 

 

You mean the case that I have already debunked? It looks like the only reason you are voting for me right now is because Mish has been defending me, and because I have perhaps been a bit more serious than usual. How does this make me mafia again? Why are you voting for me while other people have been defending my play? You are also linking Darthe and Verbal together, and then do the same thing with me, Mish and Despo without even explaining why.

 

 

Darthe's claim does seem more likely now that Dap flipped a 1-shot Vig. I could still go for either Verbal or Pral.

 

 

## Vote Verbal

[Pralaya]

 

You mean the case that I have already debunked? It looks like the only reason you are voting for me right now is because Mish has been defending me, and because I have perhaps been a bit more serious than usual. How does this make me mafia again? Why are you voting for me while other people have been defending my play? You are also linking Darthe and Verbal together, and then do the same thing with me, Mish and Despo without even explaining why.

 

 

Darthe's claim does seem more likely now that Dap flipped a 1-shot Vig. I could still go for either Verbal or Pral.

 

 

## Vote Verbal

 

 

Debunking? Hah. That doesn't exist in mafia where anybody can claim anything. This is not a factual argument. Besides, you can see that I addressed that right in the post which you quoted. 

 

About others defending you,are you saying that I should blindly take up what others say? For all we know, they could be your buddies 

[peacesells]

Very early aggressiveness is not an attribute that I find scum having very often.  If that is the basis of the argument on Cloud..that's pretty weak.

[Leelou]

All I really have to do is file today, so I'm going to go through day 1 after I get to work and see what I can find.

[michellem]

Very early aggressiveness is not an attribute that I find scum having very often.  If that is the basis of the argument on Cloud..that's pretty weak.

 

Yeah I agree with this... I think every scum team I've been on, are more than happy to sit back D1 and prod slightly at the townies to make them tear each other apart.

[Verbal32]

RB could be both town and mafia. Darthe is still not playing like town. He refuse to answer questions or gives arrogant answers that doesn´t mean anything. Again - Darthe, why did you say that Verbal should have been lynched when you never voted? 

 

Pralaya´s vote on Cloud just before deadline was really weird. His reason was that Cloud put a serious vote on AJ for being serious but that wasn´t why Cloud voted AJ.

 

Leelou was acting very strange yesterday. First she says that she is willing to hammer Verb, then when she realise that he hasn´t enough votes she asks if we should vote Darthe instead. But afterwards she said that she was ready to hammer Verbal anyway. Why was it so important to hammer? If you were ready to lynch Verbal then just vote him. 

 

Verbal hasn´t done anything that has changed my mind about him. 

 

Rag left his vote on my the whole day even though it clearly wouldn´t lead anywhere. 

 

 

 

 

## Vote Verbal

 

hashtagtunneling

[Verbal32]

 

Very early aggressiveness is not an attribute that I find scum having very often.  If that is the basis of the argument on Cloud..that's pretty weak.

 

Yeah I agree with this... I think every scum team I've been on, are more than happy to sit back D1 and prod slightly at the townies to make them tear each other apart.

 

 

We should not use this as a basis to relieve pressure from Cloud.  Just because folks tend to do X as scum does not mean they won't do Y just to throw you off the scent.  Don't fall for this.

 

You all fell for it when we did it a few months ago.  Remember that game?  Scum was myself, Yates, and..........CLOUD.  Don't dismiss the idea because it isn't quite as likely as you think.

[Verbal32]

So, aside from me switching the detail of why I was pressuring Cloud for early play D1 (but the message was still the same), what is the case on me?  Is that it?  If so, I'm not quite sure that passes muster.  Seems lazy.

[michellem]

It was the tunneling on Cloud with the changing story, and the flippant, spammy attitude, that I'm not used to seeing from you, it felt like a deliberate change in meta. I feel better about you now after your posts since nightfall. I still think you're wrong about Cloud though.