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Trick-or-Treat II Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Wins!!!!


LilyElizabeth

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I understand the purpose of N0 Dap. But with role PMs having already been issued, players would still react a certain way based on their alignments.

 

Psychology and stuff.

 

React a certain way to picking a house color?  Seems like a stretch.

 

I personally don't consider voting on a house color real gameplay.  There were comments made during N0 that would be considered gameplay to be sure, but the house color stuff is as arbitrary as the costumes.   There are different triggers in each house, but nobody knows what they are and who they'll favor, so there's no reason not to pick whatever color suits your fancy. 

 

 

?

 

I didn't say that people would vote house colors based on their alignments. If we were allowed to only vote for house colors (without the other fluff) that would be an accurate statement.

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I agree with AJ about Night-0.

While choosing a house of certain colour wouldn't mean anything by itself, most people attached some reasons and reactions as well and that's just as good of a basis for getting a game (and scumhunting) going as a usual D1 start. We've all had our role PM's at that point, so why not? The only point missing was that we couldn't vote. This also reminds me of DPR's ghost game (I didn't play in it but I followed it) where there were no scum on D1 

 

Anyway, I'm liking this Night-0 start.

 

@AJ - I did see a "Watch out!" post from Lily but it didn't stand out to me on my first read (never would have caught it if I didn't see you folks talking about the trigger as if it's been hit already). Is that what you're referring to as trigger?

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Have you guys read the previous lily Halloween games or candy land mafia at all?

I haven't got around to do that. Planning to do some when I got some extra time for the game.

Also I don't really know how this Halloween stuff (trick-or-treat) works and a good percentage of the customs don't say anything to me. Oh, I do know that some kids go around, say "trick or treat" and are supposed to get some candy, but I don't have a clue whether houses are decorated for the event and if colour really means anything, or that's just some sort of joking.

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The colours are just Lily's way of differentiating. She could of called them by street number for all it matters

There is a slim chance colours may hint at the houses mechanic however lily was never one to make things obvious so I doubt it, or at least it's un-figure-out-able till we experience a few houses.

If the game goes long enough we go to them all eventually anyway.

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I'm tempted to vote Notbob pretty much for policy reasons after his latest forced casual flippant remarks. Blech.

 

But I won't, cause you know what's funny? Cloud hasn't exactly been around since a train started building on him. Still think he's our best chance for scum atm.

 

The debate about N0 seems pretty pointless to me. Dap seems pretty town to me but is arguing a silly point. Why argue about hypothetical situations where N0 started without role pm's, when we know that wasn't the case in this game? We KNOW pm's were already out, which means pretty much anything said on thread can be analyzed as gameplay. Obviously things could have been different, but why spend any energy talking about that sort of thing? I don't think AJ was ever trying to get any reads off of what house people voted for, I think he was trying to develop reads on what people were saying in general. He seems townish to me right now. Dap does too, which once again brings me back to me thinking this is a fruitless discussion. Hopefully it will end now.

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I also set one on Darthe, see no complaints with that half des

 

(this was in reference to me saying he could have been setting up a lynch on me)

 

I don't know Darthe's alignment. For all I know, you setting up a lynch on him could be either good or bad, depending on your and his alignments. I know I'm town, so I know that someone potentially setting up a lynch on me is a bad thing for town.

 

Andrej, how does csarmi appear scummy based on meta? Would like to hear that reasoning.

 

Why do you ask AJ about his reasoning for remarking on CS's meta when Leelou commented on it as well before AJ did?

 

 

Andrej, how does csarmi appear scummy based on meta? Would like to hear that reasoning.

I don't get the meta thing, he was spammy overnight so they claim he's scum but now he's not around? So how is that meta??

 

 

I got strong town vibes from a couple of Leelou's earlier posts, but this whole exchange confused me and made me uncertain of that read on her.

 

Leelou, I don't get why you're questioning AJ's remarks about Csarmi's meta when you yourself were the first one to comment on CS's meta here:

 

Cloud's reasoning seems off this game and he's started off pushing an easy lynch. Granted, Moon has scummy behaviors, but from what I've seen she does every game and I think I might have to stick her in my Lily/Mish (always think they are scum) category and have to wait a few days to get a better read.

 

Has salami checked in since the start of day? I'm on my phone so I'll check for myself later, but if he has he's been awfully quiet.

 

NotBob has me slightly concerned, he's not playing for his usual drive to lynch Darthe for the betterment of town and he has an odd vote on Andrej.

 

People I'm willing to vote right now are Cloud and NotBob. Cloud has tipped the scale a bit more for me with his responses, so unvote, vote Cloud

 

What purpose does it serve to remark on someone's meta unless you think they might be scum? If you think they're off their meta to protect a PR, then pointing out the unusual behavior would be extremely antitown.

 

Therefore, I can only assume that when you remarked on CS's meta, you were doing so because you thought he could be mafia. Yet when someone else remarks on his meta, you start defending him pretty substantially. I don't get this at all.

 

And if you say the difference is you thought CS was more inactive than normal (which was true), whereas AJ thought CS was more spammy, well there's actually a way both of you could have been correct. CS wasn't posting a lot, but in one of his earlier posts, he did a big multiquote wall where he spent very little time on actual gameplay, and spent most of it joking. I could see AJ getting his "spammy" read on CS from that.

 

Either way, you questioned AJ's remarks on CS's meta BEFORE he went into more detail as to what they were. For all you knew, at that time he noticed what you had and thought CS was more inactive than normal, and thought him scum because of it.

 

So here's the big question. Were you laying a trap by commenting on CS's meta in the first place, or are you just looking for any excuse to apply pressure to someone not on your team?

 

Also, salami will tell you he's the worst scum hunter, he's not lying. I am calling your meta a crap read and really you need to learn to not rely too much on meta and actually analyze the content of posts.

 

This seemed like an abnormally aggressive post to me.

 

Okay, so I unvoted Aemon. I saw that he'd posted again, and that satisfied my conditions of prodding him a little. I had not seen him around the game much. 

 

Yes, I've lost track. I haven't been able to focus on the game like I wanted to these past few days because I've had a lot going on. Plus, I only have one computer and Mr M has been hogging it. I try to avoid Phone Dragonmounting. 

 

And, no I really don't "love getting myself lynched" I'm just easily lost and confused sometimes.

 

I don't know if you've noticed, but mafia is actually a really hard game for me.(I may have a genius intellect, but the interactions within mafia kind of confuse me sometimes). It's not that hard for me to get lost. It's not something I talk about often here on Dragonmount, but I get in a brain fog (a nasty side effect of my chronic illness) when I'm stressed, and will often forget what I'm saying while I'm speaking. It's why I prefer writing to talking.

I play to try to challenge myself, to try to work around my brain fog, and yes, I do get challenged. 

 

Day one is hardest for me, especially because I don't have voting patterns to compare. 

I have almost no skill at picking scum tells, and when I find something I think is scummy, usually I find someone's already made mention of it and i look like I'm bandwagoning. I don't really like to repeat other's opinions. 

 

I generally just go with the attitude that everyone else is mafia, because I never really know who to trust. 

As far as not addressing the issues of people, many of them I haven't seen, and I've been choosing to ignore some of them because I think they're just trying to bait me. I've been told it's in my meta to get hyper-defensive when I'm scummy. And I'm just not gonna be that way. 

 

 

I still think it's a little hard to believe you'd lose track of a game before it had gotten to 10 pages (especially if you consider the N0 stuff as before the game truly started), but meh.

 

Assuming for a second you're town and telling the truth and not trying to AtE, I think that part of it could be that you have an analytical mind that might struggle a little bit with the shades of grey thing (no, not the porn-for-women book). As in, when things aren't black and white and easily quantifiable, they tend to frustrate or confuse you more.

 

All I can offer is to try and accept that any reads or opinions developed early in a game are completely fluid, and that they will almost assuredly change many times throughout the game. But therein lies the fun: trying to elucidate truth from the muck that is mafia.

 

 

So yeah, the peeps I'm keeping a close eye on atm:

 

Yates (for throwaway vote on Verbal, and he's usually much more active than this)

To this point; I'm usually scum. :dry:

 

Just heard your mind go Boom.

 

You aren't 100% wrong, though. I'm with you on Lenlo.

 

So yeah, the peeps I'm keeping a close eye on atm:

 

Lenlo (for "creating wifom" comment)

It's less the "creating wifom" comment and more this:

Of the two im leaning Moon as more scummy but neither has really done something definitively 100% scummy to me yet.

The old "looking for 100% scum tell" scum play. No sir, I don't like it.

 

Unvote

 

Vote: Lenlo

 

 

You go from voting one outlier with pretty much zero reason to voting another with little reason. Interesting.

 

What are your thoughts on Cloud? On Moon? On Leelou? Why are you trying to stay on the sidelines instead of commenting on the issues at front and center?

 

Has anyone else noticed that Yates has changed his vote like five times in 24 hours?

 

Worries me more that he only seems to vote for outliers.

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Kat's post seemed good to me too, btw. Kinda disappointed my name didn't show up in it :sad:

 

Leelou seems worth watching now for both the strangeness regarding her and CS's meta, and for somewhat hyper-aggressive behavior.

 

Verbal needs to pop back up more than just when Yates teases him about vote tags (which would be SO LEET btw).

 

The Darthe/Yates bromance is making me brojealous. Both could be more involved in discussion tho.

 

Getting faint scum vibes from Mish now (one thing that stood out was when she said something along the lines of "wow, you're even more interesting than Pray or Moon!" before voting him. Got a townish read on AJ and Pray, and I don't think Pray was ever that "interesting". They just had that weird exchange of quoting eachother multiple times and being coy, so she might have felt the need to bring him up again). Of course she'll likely come in and emorage about me always suspecting her :tongue:

 

Hrmmm what else. Eh can't think of anything. Good for now.

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20 - Leelou said AJ saying he thought blood would be spilled meant that he was upset that mafia didn't get the trigger...how does Leelou know if the mafia got the trigger or not unless she's mafia? Blood shed could come from either side, town could just as easily have randomly triggered a kill or something..maybe i'm reading that wrong..I am getting sleepy and probably missing a lot as i analyse.. 

 

 

 

So, this was meant to narrow things down in my mind..its just made me question more people..Cloud, Moon, Aj, Aemon, Darthe and Leelou.

 

Or I hit the trigger and know what I have hidden in my costume. I'll discuss it more once night falls. 

 

 

Is this a joke?

 

What have you hidden in your costume you dirty girl?

 

 

Not talking about it until night falls. I only brought it up because I got questioned on what I said. 

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@ Des - I am semi-aggressive from time to time to get reactions and slips. I am not awake enough to go get quotes, but AJ is a fairly new player and he has said in this game that he has only played a couple games with salami. One of those games, salami said on here that he was changing his style because people tell him he posts too much. It was stated before by AJ that his meta on salami was that he's spammy as scum. I was saying that is a bad read because up until the Die Hard game, salami has one of the highest post counts but says absolutely nothing both as town and scum. My saying salami was missing and being slightly worried was just that. He's shown up now and I'm watching him. 

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I'm leaning Cloud and Moon right now as scum. Cloud has made a number of questionable comments like "house members" and the "I don't believe he's Mario". It seems that he isn't really paying attention to anything Lily says, since right after an explanation by her, he comes out with a statement that directly contradicts it.

 

The biggest ping I got on Moon was how she immediately jumped off of me (giggity) when given some very slight pressure. And then accuses everyone of looking like scum. Really? I'm not buying it. However, since Cloud has several actions that read as scum for me...

 

unvote

 

vote Cloud

I never said that I didn’t believe Csarmi was Mario. I said that I didn’t know what to think about it; in other words I wasn’t sure and I have already explained that it wasn’t part of my reason to vote for him so I have no idea why you guys even keep pushing on this. I do pay attention to the things Lily has been saying. I was just confused about the game mechanics at the start of the game but it got cleared up when she explained that there were no house members.

 

 

 

@Mod: I have a couple of questions about the design of the game. Can only members of a house hit it's trigger by doing something? And will a trigger that has been hit affect everyone in the game or only the members of it's house?

There are no members of houses. You are a group trick-or-treating a neighborhood. None of you live there.

 

As for the triggers, PAFO

 

Ah, well in that case.

 

Unvote, Vote Dark Green

 

 

Let's get this over with so Day can start.

 

So where is the statement that directly contradicts the things Lily has said to me?

 

 

Cloud is derptown (if you have to tell someone youre scumhunting..)

Well, apparently I have to because everyone is voting for me.

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It was already extremely clear that we would be visiting houses and would vote on which house we would all visit as a group together. I don't believe that you would have been honestly confused about the situation.

 

Yes, I’m aware that it’s written in the OP, but at the explanation of houses made sense to me back then. I can’t expain it any other way and you are free to not believe me.

 

 

I think you were trying to look like a helpful townie asking questions about the setup. And as others have also pointed out, you disregarding what Lily said about costumes doesn't jibe with the whole "helpful townie" thing.

 

If I were a mafia player looking to gain town cred by acting like a helpful townie wouldn’t you think that I would AT LEAST take the effort to read the OP a little better before I started deceiving everyone? And I never disregarded what Lily said about the costumes. I know that she said that they don’t mean anything game wise, but I found it worth pointing out that I doubted there were two costumes from the same franchise. My role in this game isn’t to be helpful, it’s to hunt down scum and I will do everything I can to accomplish that goal.

 

 

Firstly, I don't have a problem with you questioning Andrej. My point was that you questioning him about that makes it look like you wondered what gave Andrej a town read on someone, while also trying to do the same thing. THAT'S why I say you were trying to gain town cred.

 

Dude, I was the first one to point out that it doesn’t matter which house we vote for so we should just consolidate right away. I asked Andrej why he had a town read on Dap on purpose to check his reasonings, but of course I already suspected it was because of Dap pushing the same idea forward.

 

 

Second, I don't really remember anyone else saying we should all agree on a house quick before Dap said what he did. Point out to me who did first.

 

Well, then you should pay better attention. Here are the two posts. Look at the timestamps.

 

 

 

 

@Mod: I have a couple of questions about the design of the game. Can only members of a house hit it's trigger by doing something? And will a trigger that has been hit affect everyone in the game or only the members of it's house?

 

There are no members of houses. You are a group trick-or-treating a neighborhood. None of you live there.

 

As for the triggers, PAFO

 

Ah, well in that case.

 

Unvote, Vote Dark Green

 

 

Let's get this over with so Day can start.

 

See. I was the first one to directly say that we should just go with Dark Green so we can start the Day sooner.

 

 

Actually I will say more

The game hasn't started yet, there is no point voting for different colours as it only prevents the game from starting

Just vote for the highest train and be done with it

 

Dap says the same thing but with different words.

 

 

 

Just do everyone a favor and vote for Dark Green. You aren't doing anything worthwhile by picking a different house which we will have no chance of visiting.

 

I repeat the message a second time after noticing that NotBob was still voting for a different house.

 

 

Either way, you coming out and repeating the same stuff Dap was saying pings to me, and it shouldn't be a mystery to you why. Players coming out and parroting what someone else said, in what looks like a possible attempt to gain town cred, looks highly questionable to me, and should to you to. Parroting is one of mafia's favorite ways of blending in.

 

I have already proven that I wasn’t doing the parroting so this argument doesn’t hold true at all.

 

 

Lastly, pointing out the logical way to do things is all well and good, but making a show out of pointing out the logical way of doing things is what drew my attention.

 

What kind of show? I was merely pointing out the most logical way to do things, but you guys choose to take everything I say out of context.

 

 

 

I don't remember you voting Salami. Did you? You didn't in the post I quoted. Which is why I said that the cryptic way you finished the post ("I'm not sure how to feel about him claiming to be Mario...") seemed like you trying to float out an FOS on someone to see if others would do your legwork for you.

 

And someone already pointed this out, but what would the scum motive in lying about your costume be? Go ahead, I'll wait a bit.

 

What's that? You can't think of one? Yeah cause there really wouldn't be. With costumes being irrelevant to the game, someone could claim to be Hitler and it wouldn't have any bearing on whether or not I thought that person scum.

 

Either way, Mario and all the games and characters surrounding him are one of the biggest icons of gaming period, and the universe makes for very popular halloween costumes. Is it really that hard to believe that we'd see two characters from the same iconic universe?

 

It. Was. Just. A. Thought.

 

God. I don’t know how many times I have to repeat this for it to become clear to you.

 

And yes, I did vote for Salami at the start of Day 1. Feel free to look it up.

 

 

Bolded: If you think she had a serious scum read on Aemon, tell me again why you think she's mafia? Cause mafia don't have a "serious scum read" on ANYONE in a game, or at least not in any typical game. Explain please.

 

I highly doubt that she could have had a serious scum read on Aemon only based on N0.

 

 

Underlined: ... it seems fairly obvious that Moon unvoted because she got heat for her previous post. I mean, it's pretty obvious from the wording of her own post. But why does that make her mafia? You see, there is a townie motivation for doing what she did: she could have been embarrassed for exhibiting behavior that made her the subject of attention when town needed to find scum.

 

LOL :laugh: I have been the subject of attention for most of the game so far and yet you don’t find my behavior so excusable.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, Moon's play this game has been pretty sketchy, but I still think you're just trying to pursue the easiest lynch that isn't your own.

I have not only been pursuing her lynch, and you saying that is plainly wrong. So far I have been going after Csarmi, Moon and Pral while keeping a check on everyone else too. I haven’t had a tunnel vision on Moon to try and save my own hide like you claim I do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I hope this works.

 

It was already extremely clear that we would be visiting houses and would vote on which house we would all visit as a group together. I don't believe that you would have been honestly confused about the situation.


Yes, I’m aware that it’s written in the OP, but at the explanation of houses made sense to me back then. I can’t expain it any other way and you are free to not believe me.
 

I think you were trying to look like a helpful townie asking questions about the setup. And as others have also pointed out, you disregarding what Lily said about costumes doesn't jibe with the whole "helpful townie" thing.


If I were a mafia player looking to gain town cred by acting like a helpful townie wouldn’t you think that I would AT LEAST take the effort to read the OP a little better before I started deceiving everyone? And I never disregarded what Lily said about the costumes. I know that she said that they don’t mean anything game wise, but I found it worth pointing out that I doubted there were two costumes from the same franchise. My role in this game isn’t to be helpful, it’s to hunt down scum and I will do everything I can to accomplish that goal.
 

Firstly, I don't have a problem with you questioning Andrej. My point was that you questioning him about that makes it look like you wondered what gave Andrej a town read on someone, while also trying to do the same thing. THAT'S why I say you were trying to gain town cred.


Dude, I was the first one to point out that it doesn’t matter which house we vote for so we should just consolidate right away. I asked Andrej why he had a town read on Dap on purpose to check his reasonings, but of course I already suspected it was because of Dap pushing the same idea forward.
 

Second, I don't really remember anyone else saying we should all agree on a house quick before Dap said what he did. Point out to me who did first.


Well, then you should pay better attention. Here are the two posts. Look at the timestamps.
 

 

 

@Mod: I have a couple of questions about the design of the game. Can only members of a house hit it's trigger by doing something? And will a trigger that has been hit affect everyone in the game or only the members of it's house?


There are no members of houses. You are a group trick-or-treating a neighborhood. None of you live there.

As for the triggers, PAFO

 


Ah, well in that case.

Unvote, Vote Dark Green


Let's get this over with so Day can start.

 


See. I was the first one to directly say that we should just go with Dark Green so we can start the Day sooner.
 

Actually I will say more
The game hasn't started yet, there is no point voting for different colours as it only prevents the game from starting
Just vote for the highest train and be done with it


Dap says the same thing but with different words.

 

Just do everyone a favor and vote for Dark Green. You aren't doing anything worthwhile by picking a different house which we will have no chance of visiting.


I repeat the message a second time after noticing that NotBob was still voting for a different house.
 

Either way, you coming out and repeating the same stuff Dap was saying pings to me, and it shouldn't be a mystery to you why. Players coming out and parroting what someone else said, in what looks like a possible attempt to gain town cred, looks highly questionable to me, and should to you to. Parroting is one of mafia's favorite ways of blending in.


I have already proven that I wasn’t doing the parroting so this argument doesn’t hold true at all.
 

Lastly, pointing out the logical way to do things is all well and good, but making a show out of pointing out the logical way of doing things is what drew my attention.


What kind of show? I was merely pointing out the most logical way to do things, but you guys choose to take everything I say out of context.

 

I don't remember you voting Salami. Did you? You didn't in the post I quoted. Which is why I said that the cryptic way you finished the post ("I'm not sure how to feel about him claiming to be Mario...") seemed like you trying to float out an FOS on someone to see if others would do your legwork for you.

And someone already pointed this out, but what would the scum motive in lying about your costume be? Go ahead, I'll wait a bit.

What's that? You can't think of one? Yeah cause there really wouldn't be. With costumes being irrelevant to the game, someone could claim to be Hitler and it wouldn't have any bearing on whether or not I thought that person scum.

Either way, Mario and all the games and characters surrounding him are one of the biggest icons of gaming period, and the universe makes for very popular halloween costumes. Is it really that hard to believe that we'd see two characters from the same iconic universe?


It. Was. Just. A. Thought.

God. I don’t know how many times I have to repeat this for it to become clear to you.

And yes, I did vote for Salami at the start of Day 1. Feel free to look it up.
 

Bolded: If you think she had a serious scum read on Aemon, tell me again why you think she's mafia? Cause mafia don't have a "serious scum read" on ANYONE in a game, or at least not in any typical game. Explain please.

I highly doubt that she could have had a serious scum read on Aemon only based on N0.
 

Underlined: ... it seems fairly obvious that Moon unvoted because she got heat for her previous post. I mean, it's pretty obvious from the wording of her own post. But why does that make her mafia? You see, there is a townie motivation for doing what she did: she could have been embarrassed for exhibiting behavior that made her the subject of attention when town needed to find scum.


LOL :laugh: I have been the subject of attention for most of the game so far and yet you don’t find my behavior so excusable.
 

Don't get me wrong, Moon's play this game has been pretty sketchy, but I still think you're just trying to pursue the easiest lynch that isn't your own.

I have not only been pursuing her lynch, and you saying that is plainly wrong. So far I have been going after Csarmi, Moon and Pral while keeping a check on everyone else too. I haven’t had a tunnel vision on Moon to try and save my own hide like you claim I do.

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^This sequence makes Cloud look even worse imo. Cloud trying to lead town, even when it's pointed out to him that Moon always seems to act scummy.

It was just a fun little comment not meant to be taken that seriously.

 

The problem is you breadcrumbed out a "thought" that made it seem like you trying to divert attention to something unnecessary.

Why would I do that as mafia? I have been playing this game for longer than yesterday, and trying to breadcrumb a case on someone based on something that the Mod denied played any part in this game would be stupid as hell.

 

Cloud didn't create any wifom, he just said something odd that had no real value in catching scum this game.

I agree with this.

 

Either way, you completely butcher logic and reason with your first point. Pray said you were trying to exploit Moon's move, so YES, he's essentially agreeing that the move was bad/odd. The logic fail here is that you don't truly address the actual point he was making: that you were being opportunistic in jumping on something that could easily get someone lynched for.

So by your logic I should just stay quiet when I notice someone making a scummy move? Hell, if I did that then people would attack me with accusations why I didn’t respond to it then. You aren’t making sense amigo.

 

 

Just cause someone flubs up doesn't make them scum. Someone going after someone fairly aggressively for a flub, when that person seems prone to commit flubs fairly often in games, looks far scummier than the original gaffe (betcha thought I'd say "flub" again huh? )

:rolleyes:

 

Please read that message to yourself again when you are considering your case on my play this game.

 

Also funny how you try and redirect focus back to Moon so quick.

*Scumhunting*

 

I agree with you about Moon’s play this game though.

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Cloud's reasoning seems off this game and he's started off pushing an easy lynch. Granted, Moon has scummy behaviors, but from what I've seen she does every game and I think I might have to stick her in my Lily/Mish (always think they are scum) category and have to wait a few days to get a better read.

 

Has salami checked in since the start of day? I'm on my phone so I'll check for myself later, but if he has he's been awfully quiet.

 

NotBob has me slightly concerned, he's not playing for his usual drive to lynch Darthe for the betterment of town and he has an odd vote on Andrej.

 

People I'm willing to vote right now are Cloud and NotBob. Cloud has tipped the scale a bit more for me with his responses, so unvote, vote Cloud

 

I'm trying to change my meta.  Darthe is a swell guy.  Took me a while to warm to his brilliant personality.

 

 

Lol

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Cloud - what do you think about this whole "let's consolidate on a house so that game can start sooner" angle?

 

I agree with it because I think it's random anyway so it doesn't matter which house we pick. We should just get sooner started with the next Day so that we can continue playing the game and not lose focus.

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