August 9, 2013: CONCLUDED

[Verbal32]

Agreed.  I'd rather lose the game by refusing to lynch an active player who is contributing (serra), and allow somebody who isn't (ree) to skate by.

 

Even if serra is scum and wins the game because of this, it'll set a nice precedent for future games:  SIGN UP TO PLAY, OR TOWN WILL LYNCH YOU AND REMOVE THE ISSUE.

[Verbal32]

Folks, I know this sounds harsh, but I've decided to be the bad guy.  I will increase activity on my mafia board, and I'll lead lynches on town power roles who are inactive from here on out if I have to.

 

>_<

[bgrishinko]

Unvote

Vote: Ree

 

I don't care if it loses us the game and lynches our remaining power roles.  Inactivity is why I left DM mafia.  I came back because I heard it was trending upward.

 

So I've been reviewing voting for the entire game. Ree hasn't placed a vote since early Day 1.

 

But while reviewing, I noticed something else that is bothersome. Krak's case on Cloud is pitiful which is what I htink Chuckles was trying to point out. Krak also didn't vote anyone in this game between his early Day 1 Hallia vote and this recent case on Cloud. Randomly, Razen shows back up (he had less posts than Ree until the one above) and is right there on the Cloud lynch. Seems off.

[Krakalakachkn]

I understand you, but what I'm saying is that you were using the BPV claim as a first step towards the mass claim idea. If the BPV had claimed, then you might be arguing for a mass claim now or in a few days.

 

I understand you are saying time will tell whether this is a setup that can solved by mass claim, but I'm saying that I completely disagree with you unless this were a role madness/kitchen sink game. Maybe this is just an argument of mafia theory, but I think it was a scummy suggestion.

 

To the former, your argument is neither here nor there.  Frankly, it doesn't matter what you think Serra might have been thinking about doing at some point further down the line. 

 

To the latter, mafia theory, yes.  I, however, find your suggestion [regarding what Serra might do/not do 2 days from now] scummy.

[Krakalakachkn]

But while reviewing, I noticed something else that is bothersome. Krak's case on Cloud is pitiful which is what I htink Chuckles was trying to point out. Krak also didn't vote anyone in this game between his early Day 1 Hallia vote and this recent case on Cloud. Randomly, Razen shows back up (he had less posts than Ree until the one above) and is right there on the Cloud lynch. Seems off.

 

It should be bothersome because I've been inactive in all three threads.  I'm trying to change that and get back into the mix, which requires rereading T1 - after which I will be caught up.

 

 

Edit:  @Bolded

 

FOS  - You're gonna call my case pitiful and offer no riposte? Your use of lolguy's comments as a mouthpiece for your own agenda is noted.

[Pralaya]

Just had a re-read
Most of Ishy's posts seem scummy
 
Eagerly trying to start a Peace lynch train 

Conversely, should bad behavior go unpunished?

I'm undecided, so convince me.

 Getting very quick on the train votes

I can get behind that.

Vote Serra.

Evading conversation

 

My scum list atm:
Ishy - mainly for that exchange with Peace where he seemed like something was slowly dawning on him... that looked like way too fake of a reaction to the situation

GFY? EAD?

 

unvote vote ishy

[Niniel]

Also just did a re-read. 

 

First - vote Cloud

 

I think everything has been pointed out already. He wants Chuckles to out an innocent so we can know if we can trust him. How could we trust Chuckles if he outed one townie? Later he says that he was wrong about it, probably because he got criticized.

 

His first comment this day when he laughs at mafia for killing their own symp - he didn´t even considered a sk. It sound like he know it was the mafia. We had three kills night 1 so we have at least one more killing role.

 

His defense of Ishy just doesn´t make any sense. First - it is based on the fact that Ishy himself said that cops use to view him. Second - even if that was true, we have only had two nights so far. 

 

 

More comments in the next post.

[Niniel]

Just had a re-read

Most of Ishy's posts seem scummy

 

Eagerly trying to start a Peace lynch train 

Conversely, should bad behavior go unpunished?

 

I'm undecided, so convince me.

 Getting very quick on the train votes

I can get behind that.

 

Vote Serra.

Evading conversation

 

My scum list atm:

Ishy - mainly for that exchange with Peace where he seemed like something was slowly dawning on him... that looked like way too fake of a reaction to the situation

GFY? EAD?

 

unvote vote ishy

 

 

At that point there were already a Peace train that Ishy had jumped off. So what do you mean?

[hazelkrs1]

Just had to do way too much catching up in one game while hungover, and still have to catch up in another, so making this short and sweet. Sorry.

 

I actually think the case on Cloud IS stronger than Serra, and moreover gives us a better info lynch I think. I voted Serra mainly cause I found him scummy as well, and saw others voting him. Now that I see more momentum on Cloud's lynch however, I feel Unvoting, Voting Cloud is the way to go.

 

Lemme see if there was anything specific I needed to respond to in the last couple of pages

[hazelkrs1]

Oh also forgot to mention- if Cloud flips scum, I think that and all the other evidence against Chuckles is significant enough for serious pressure, and if he doesn't have a guilty viewing for us to check the next day we just get his "viewings" out and lynch him.

[Niniel]

Things to comment on:

 

Chuckles - will just agree with others - why pick Yates. Very convinient. Still, I believe we have a cop and no one has cc´d.

 

Hally - As someone said, she seems very opportunistic. Short posts with few thoughts of her own. 

 

Nolder - major fos for going after our uncc´d cop.

 

Tiinker - made a strange answer to Pral´s vote on him. Have looked townie but as Pral says, he has been eager to move his vote and I get a third party feeling from him

 

Mr.Ree - if everyone think it´s a good way to go then I could join his lynch. First we need to check with the mods though - I saw that they are searching for a replacement - is it for him?

 

Pral - makes both good and strange posts. Don´t know where I have him. Yesterday he was all about Tiinker but now he voted Ishy instead.

 

Serra - looks scummy.  BG had a good post when he shows that first Serra wants to out the BPV to see if we have a cop and a doc (which I think is a bad idea) but then he believes Chuckles right away even though we haven´t gotten that BPV claim. 

[Verbal32]

Oh also forgot to mention- if Cloud flips scum, I think that and all the other evidence against Chuckles is significant enough for serious pressure, and if he doesn't have a guilty viewing for us to check the next day we just get his "viewings" out and lynch him.

 

I might get behind this if we do the math first and his flip (let's assume for a minute he's town) would narrow the lynch pool enough to reasonable ensure a town win.

[Pralaya]

Pral - makes both good and strange posts. Don´t know where I have him. Yesterday he was all about Tiinker but now he voted Ishy instead.

 

Not true. I was making a case for both yesterday too and other recent posts by Ishy made me chose the other

Yeah, sometimes the posts are strange due to overall inexperience with mafia

 

What Peace did was unacceptable, but I dont think it says scum. My opinion is that we do not vote on him and actually try to vote our scum prospects.

Despo and BG's argument about Peace as a gambit works fine but I think it is too far-fetched. He would know that it would bring attention on him and that is the last thing that a mafia wants.

 

I still have my doubts over three people - Chuckles, Ishy and Tinker. 

 

When Peace calls out Serra , first ones to jump in are Ishy and tinker.

later when Peace flip his story, the first two to vote Peace are Ishy and Tinker. 

 

I am going with Tinker for this

 

vote Tinker

[hazelkrs1]

Desp: I never suggested a mass-claim at this point. Instead I mentioned that there may come a point when a mass-claim could be game-breaking (as there can be in all open setup games). I don't see how you can find my BPV suggestion scummy, since you barely managed to convince anyone that it wouldn't work.

 

I'm not making these suggestions because I'm scum trying to mislead town. That would be a horrible strategy for scum-me. I have spent a LOT of time designing and analysing setups, so I think something I can offer to this game, along with my reads, is my suggestions on how town can maximise their chances of winning. As scum, I would have no reason to do that. It is something that I know gives me undue attention, so I could instead be lurking this out, or driving easy lynches.

 

Desp worries me a lot, with his recent tirade about how chuckles couldn't possibly be telling the truth, but placing a vote on me for a few suggestions he disagrees with? I think Desp knows chuckles is scum, but hopes to get me out of the way before turning to bussing chuckles.

 

Oh come on man. You weren't suggesting a mass claim at that point but you were DEFINITELY breadcrumbing the concept.

 

That second paragraph is awful btw. "I wouldn't do this as scum" statements are terribad, and there WOULD be scum motivation in doing what you did with those suggestions. Trying to gain town cred, trying to manipulate town with subtle ideas, and trying to set yourself up to lead town are all scum motivations for that kind of behavior.

 

Lastly, funny that you think I'm protecting Chuckles as a scumbuddy, when later you claim I'm setting him up for a mislynch. Man you're scummy. Too bad Cloud is uberscummy too.

 

@Des:  having the BPV reveal themselves is not a terrible play.  We've already been over this.  It hurts the role's usefulness now, but makes it amazing at endgame.  I'm not sure if you are purposely ignoring this, or just tunneling your idea and not realizing it.

 

Early in the game, scum isn't as upset with a wasted NK, because they know it'll count when endgame comes around and they can't afford a miss.  This is just simple logic.

 

I think you're overplaying how useful the role would be in endgame personally. And there could still potentially be enough wifom on a BPV that the scum team could justifiably get him lynched at some point as well. Overall tho I still think outing the BPV would dimish it's utility overall. One night missing a NK early might not hurt scum much, but that would be one less night of them possibly NKing a more powerful town role, and might lead them to believe that target was the Doc which could set them up for failure later as well.

 

What I really don't get is why he calls me scummy for it. The idea apparently isn't as slam-dunk as I thought it was. I suppose that's fine. His conclusion, however, requires that not only that the idea hurts town, but also that I don't believe it to be a good idea and further that I purposefully suggested it to hurt town. I think that's rather ridiculous, and just might be desp showing his true colour. I frankly don't believe town-desp actually would base a case on two people (cloud and me) on them supporting a plan of action for town. Also, he doesn't include verbal in the same list, even though he has probably been more supportive than cloud. Cloud is simply the easier target, and he doesn't want to antagonise verbal.

 

Notice how desp deliberately DIDN'T latch on to the point made by BG. He didn't really call me out then, but he still wants a reason to vote me here, so uses this horrible excuse of a case that I am deliberately suggesting strategies that would hurt town.

 

VOTE: desp

 

I already stated that you could have been suggesting these concepts, thinking them good ideas, as a way to gain town cred, so much of your point against me here is bleurgh. It also looks like you waited for someone else to back you up a bit before voting me, which again looks scummy.

 

As for Verbal, I haven't found much from him that made me think he was scum. Cloud I DID find signs of questionable behavior from, which is why I also fos'd him. Your point about me not latching onto BG's point is bad and presumptuous. You have multiple people voting for you, so it's obvious that my case on you wasn't that awful.

 

Your vote on cloud and the reason he's giving you scummy vibes etc

 

Anyways I'm off, cya all when I get on later

 

Chuckles defending Cloud as well. Both of them are tied way too closely together.

 

Unvote

Vote: Ree

 

I don't care if it loses us the game and lynches our remaining power roles.  Inactivity is why I left DM mafia.  I came back because I heard it was trending upward.

 

Overall I don't think activity has been terrible this game... plus you have to see that this game would be a bit difficult for some to keep up with, with the whole trithread and cross meta thing going on.

 

As for lynching inactives, I am game but I think there are better lynches today (don't have a meta for Mr. Ree, he could always be inactive but either way he just started playing here. I'd rather punish repeat offenders of the inactive thing). You seem to be trying awful hard to keep Serra from getting lynched...

 

Scum are sitting idly by while the deadline ticks away, and I'll be people's compromise lynch...

 

So far, save for PR intervention, the person who was lynched was the least charismatic of those who are active, which is really rather toxic.

 

I do still think Desp is scum in this one. His vote for me is incredibly opportunistic, and he's setting up chuckles for a mislynch in the same post.

 

Ree would be a pretty decent lynch for the game as a whole. He'll remain unreadable until LyLo.

 

I still don't see cloud  as scum.

 

My vote on you was somewhat opportunistic, I'll give you that. But I had already clearly stated my suspicions on you many times, so it's not a scummy kind of opportunistic.

 

Bolded contradicts Serra's earlier reasoning that I am trying to keep a scum teammate (Chuckles) from getting lynched. Flip flops on player's alignments is pretty scummy.

 

Underlined is defense of Cloud, worth noting

 

 

I understand you, but what I'm saying is that you were using the BPV claim as a first step towards the mass claim idea. If the BPV had claimed, then you might be arguing for a mass claim now or in a few days.

 

I understand you are saying time will tell whether this is a setup that can solved by mass claim, but I'm saying that I completely disagree with you unless this were a role madness/kitchen sink game. Maybe this is just an argument of mafia theory, but I think it was a scummy suggestion.

 

To the former, your argument is neither here nor there.  Frankly, it doesn't matter what you think Serra might have been thinking about doing at some point further down the line. 

 

To the latter, mafia theory, yes.  I, however, find your suggestion [regarding what Serra might do/not do 2 days from now] scummy.

 

 

Why you linking yourself to Serra, bro?

 

After seeing some of this, could honestly switch my vote back to Serra. He'd be a great info lynch because Verbal and Krak both seem to be tying themselves to him. Still think there's probably a stronger overall case on Cloud however. Could lynch either.

[Verbal32]

 

 

Unvote

Vote: Ree

 

I don't care if it loses us the game and lynches our remaining power roles.  Inactivity is why I left DM mafia.  I came back because I heard it was trending upward.

 

Overall I don't think activity has been terrible this game... plus you have to see that this game would be a bit difficult for some to keep up with, with the whole trithread and cross meta thing going on.

 

As for lynching inactives, I am game but I think there are better lynches today (don't have a meta for Mr. Ree, he could always be inactive but either way he just started playing here. I'd rather punish repeat offenders of the inactive thing). You seem to be trying awful hard to keep Serra from getting lynched...

 

A fair point.  And I'm not trying to get serra off the block - if you recall, my vote had been on him for a while before my rant across the 2 threads I'm alive in.  Check T2, I've been worse there.

[Verbal32]

 

After seeing some of this, could honestly switch my vote back to Serra. He'd be a great info lynch because Verbal and Krak both seem to be tying themselves to him. Still think there's probably a stronger overall case on Cloud however. Could lynch either.

 

 

I'm tying myself to serra because I unvoted and moved to Ree for inactivity?  Damn, your mind works in weird ways sometimes.  Not sure where you pulled that linkage from, but my guess would be somewhere near your rear end.

[hazelkrs1]

 

Oh also forgot to mention- if Cloud flips scum, I think that and all the other evidence against Chuckles is significant enough for serious pressure, and if he doesn't have a guilty viewing for us to check the next day we just get his "viewings" out and lynch him.

 

I might get behind this if we do the math first and his flip (let's assume for a minute he's town) would narrow the lynch pool enough to reasonable ensure a town win.

 

 

I thought a second ago you were more concerned with lynching inactives and pushing activity than you were with securing a town win?

 

For what it's worth tho, there are 17 players alive. I see 5 scum left, could be 4 but I think 5 is a safe bet. If we mislynch today, then it could be 11 town to 5 mafia, after NK 10-5 ratio, or with potential third party (wait, weren't there three NK's N1? Almost def third party then) SK then it's 10 town - 1 SK - 5 mafia, and with let's say two successful NK's on townies and a mislynch today it could be 8 town - 6 potential anti-town elements tomorrow, which is getting pretty serious. Would make the lynch pool smaller indeed, and with more time without a CC and hopefully more and better reads from Chuckles, that could limit the lynch pool even more

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

After seeing some of this, could honestly switch my vote back to Serra. He'd be a great info lynch because Verbal and Krak both seem to be tying themselves to him. Still think there's probably a stronger overall case on Cloud however. Could lynch either.

 

 

I'm tying myself to serra because I unvoted and moved to Ree for inactivity?  Damn, your mind works in weird ways sometimes.  Not sure where you pulled that linkage from, but my guess would be somewhere near your rear end.

 

 

Uhm, no. Where did you get that? You tied yourself to Serra because you defended the BPV thing and him by association, and THEN pushed lynching an inactive and said "even if Serra is mafia he deserves the win over inactive townies". Not verbatim btw, I'm paraphrasing. Point is you tied yourself to Serra bro, not me.

[Verbal32]

 

 

Oh also forgot to mention- if Cloud flips scum, I think that and all the other evidence against Chuckles is significant enough for serious pressure, and if he doesn't have a guilty viewing for us to check the next day we just get his "viewings" out and lynch him.

 

I might get behind this if we do the math first and his flip (let's assume for a minute he's town) would narrow the lynch pool enough to reasonable ensure a town win.

 

 

I thought a second ago you were more concerned with lynching inactives and pushing activity than you were with securing a town win?

 

For what it's worth tho, there are 17 players alive. I see 5 scum left, could be 4 but I think 5 is a safe bet. If we mislynch today, then it could be 11 town to 5 mafia, after NK 10-5 ratio, or with potential third party (wait, weren't there three NK's N1? Almost def third party then) SK then it's 10 town - 1 SK - 5 mafia, and with let's say two successful NK's on townies and a mislynch today it could be 8 town - 6 potential anti-town elements tomorrow, which is getting pretty serious. Would make the lynch pool smaller indeed, and with more time without a CC and hopefully more and better reads from Chuckles, that could limit the lynch pool even more

 

 

Well, you distracted me with thoughts of getting a win.  In all honesty, I'd rather do something that helps DM mafia and lose, than do nothing and get a win.  But I don't think many others would share that sentiment, so I'd kinda be forced to go along with another plan.  Being alone on an island isn't going to get me far.

 

 

 

 

 

 

After seeing some of this, could honestly switch my vote back to Serra. He'd be a great info lynch because Verbal and Krak both seem to be tying themselves to him. Still think there's probably a stronger overall case on Cloud however. Could lynch either.

 

 

I'm tying myself to serra because I unvoted and moved to Ree for inactivity?  Damn, your mind works in weird ways sometimes.  Not sure where you pulled that linkage from, but my guess would be somewhere near your rear end.

 

 

Uhm, no. Where did you get that? You tied yourself to Serra because you defended the BPV thing and him by association, and THEN pushed lynching an inactive and said "even if Serra is mafia he deserves the win over inactive townies". Not verbatim btw, I'm paraphrasing. Point is you tied yourself to Serra bro, not me.

 

 

You call that tying myself to him?  I agree with some of his idea, and then unvoted him in favor of lynching an inactive.  That could have been 2 separate people - it is irrelevant that it happened to be the same person.  Tying yourself to somebody is saying you won't lynch them because you think they are not scum (or something like that).  Agreeing with somebody is not tying yourself to them.

 

The people who talk about tying to others are people that want to set up future lynches.  Is that what you're doing here?  Trying to set up a future lynch on me if serra flipped scum?

 

FOS to you, for that one.

[Verbal32]

Is the Des-serra thing a nice bus play?

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

 

 

After seeing some of this, could honestly switch my vote back to Serra. He'd be a great info lynch because Verbal and Krak both seem to be tying themselves to him. Still think there's probably a stronger overall case on Cloud however. Could lynch either.

 

 

I'm tying myself to serra because I unvoted and moved to Ree for inactivity?  Damn, your mind works in weird ways sometimes.  Not sure where you pulled that linkage from, but my guess would be somewhere near your rear end.

 

 

Uhm, no. Where did you get that? You tied yourself to Serra because you defended the BPV thing and him by association, and THEN pushed lynching an inactive and said "even if Serra is mafia he deserves the win over inactive townies". Not verbatim btw, I'm paraphrasing. Point is you tied yourself to Serra bro, not me.

 

 

You call that tying myself to him?  I agree with some of his idea, and then unvoted him in favor of lynching an inactive.  That could have been 2 separate people - it is irrelevant that it happened to be the same person.  Tying yourself to somebody is saying you won't lynch them because you think they are not scum (or something like that).  Agreeing with somebody is not tying yourself to them.

 

The people who talk about tying to others are people that want to set up future lynches.  Is that what you're doing here?  Trying to set up a future lynch on me if serra flipped scum?

 

FOS to you, for that one.

 

 

Lol. How is it irrelevant that it happened to the same person? You're funny dude.

 

 And there are many ways you can tie yourself to someone, not just one concrete way. Scum might try to link two players together, but so could town easily in the hopes of finding scum and establishing potential links.

 

Is the Des-serra thing a nice bus play?

 

Lol what a hypocrite. Now YOU'RE trying to tie me and Serra together, on much shakier grounds. You're rising higher and higher up my scumdar with every post there Verbal.

[hazelkrs1]

Alright, 3 straight hours of catching up in mafia threads is enough for me. WIll try and stop back in later, perhaps tonight for some Drunk Mafia^tm

[lolguy26]

 

Your vote on cloud and the reason he's giving you scummy vibes etc

 

Anyways I'm off, cya all when I get on later

 

Chuckles defending Cloud as well. Both of them are tied way too closely together.

 

 

how is that defending?!, i asked nolder if that was the only reason he found cloud scummy, your just removing it out of context to find more things to link me to cloud 

 

Oh also forgot to mention- if Cloud flips scum, I think that and all the other evidence against Chuckles is significant enough for serious pressure, and if he doesn't have a guilty viewing for us to check the next day we just get his "viewings" out and lynch him.

 

so let me get this straight, your saying "chuckles better find scum, if he doesnt, then we lynch him cuz that obviously means he's scum"

[Verbal32]

 

Is the Des-serra thing a nice bus play?

 

Lol what a hypocrite. Now YOU'RE trying to tie me and Serra together, on much shakier grounds. You're rising higher and higher up my scumdar with every post there Verbal.

 

 

I take it that joke shot right over your head, eh?

 

hehe

[bgrishinko]

 
@Krak - Dude, your case was pretty weak sauce... Its just a bloated quotefest with very little thought. Here it is without the quotes:
 

(... 3 quotes showing Could's back and forth vote on Peace ...)

Wow, that was quick. Opportunistic much?

(... quote from Serra and one from Hallia talking about Peace's fake cop backpeddle...)

Really, are you trying to...hide in plain sight? I'm still waiting on a[ny] case.

(...random quote from Peace...)
(...Cloud quote showing he wants Chuckles to reveal findings...)

Tries to get lolguy to reveal his innocent reads...like lolguy wouldn't do that if it were more important than vanilla or protecting a PR. Suddenly Peace jumps up to his #1 scum read? After just agreeing with Yates' and Peace's arguments on why Peace would do what he did. After BG references Tina from T2.

(...Despo Quote...) 
 

 
Extracting just your words, All you did was accuse Cloud of trying to get Chuckles to reveal findings and changing his mind about whether Peace should be lynched at that moment.

That is not a casing my friend. I'm pretty sure other people already made those points (Nolder?) so don't act like you had a great insightful reason to vote. Again, you hadn't placed a single vote since early Day 1, so if the above is your awesome justification for your vote, you gotta try harder to convince me its a good reason.