August 9, 2013: CONCLUDED

[Tiinker]

If there is a real Cop, please counter now.

 

pls.

[_CLOUD]

ok it was page 36 and im still not sure about nolder, maybe a null to slight town lean 

 

If you have a slight town read on Nolder then why did you mention that your viewing was between him and Yates?

 

If there is a real Cop, please counter now.

 

^ This would help out a lot.

[John E. Kelley]

We haven't seen a Cop flip, or had a Cop claim in any if the three threads yet have we? Other than Chuckles'? I'm not convinced that there's a Cop in any of the setups. Add to that his reluctance to share the results of his views other than the easy Yates crap and I'm thinking he's full of shit.

[Verbal32]

We haven't seen a Cop flip, or had a Cop claim in any if the three threads yet have we? Other than Chuckles'? I'm not convinced that there's a Cop in any of the setups. Add to that his reluctance to share the results of his views other than the easy Yates crap and I'm thinking he's full of shit.

We have. Tina in T1.

[John E. Kelley]

 

We haven't seen a Cop flip, or had a Cop claim in any if the three threads yet have we? Other than Chuckles'? I'm not convinced that there's a Cop in any of the setups. Add to that his reluctance to share the results of his views other than the easy Yates crap and I'm thinking he's full of shit.

We have. Tina in T1.

Then I retract this train of thought. He still smells though.

[Verbal32]

Agreed.

[Darthe]

Official Vote Count:

 

Cloud (1/9): Nol

Serra (4/9): BG, Verb, Ishy, Rorschach (AKA Prelaya)

 

Not Voting (11/17):

Chuckles, Cloud, Hally, Razen, Len, Des, Dap, Krak, Tink, Tina, Ree, Serra

 

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

 

Deadline 2 days 15 hours

[hazelkrs1]

Gonna go back through the last few pages again to refresh myself on this thread, trying to catch up on all of them at once hurts the brain

[hazelkrs1]

Okay well first of all, Vote Serra. Stinks to me for suggesting both the BPV out themselves AND suggesting a crossthread massclaim. He also makes a great info lynch because Cloud is defending/following him pretty hardcore.

 

Second, yeahhhhhh really thinking Chuckles is almost obviously scum, and not the Cop at this point. The scene clearly indicates Yates was killed by the mafia team ("They should know his loyalty! This was all wrong!"), so why would the mafia team have wanted to kill Yates?

 

And hmmm... Chuckles conveniently claims to have viewed Yates. Besides that being obviously questionable for how convenient of a viewing it is, there were imo better candidates for viewing, and moreover, the reasoning which Chuckles gave, that Yates was spreading wifom is COMPLETELY off the mark. The wifom Yates was spreading was the town kind of wifom, as in wifom designed to hopefully confuse the mafia team's NK choice. Now, you could have said that the post seemed questionable for attempting to gain town cred, which it in hindsight obviously was, but saying you picked him because he was spreading wifom is... sketchy.

 

Furthermore, this kind of leads to why I think the mafia team chose to kill Yates. I think it was BECAUSE of that post Chuckles quoted. I think they thought that Yates seemingly questioning or wifoming Chuckles' claim made them think he may have been the Cop. And who was the other person Chuckles claimed to have been deciding between? Yates and Nolder. Nolder, being the cat that wanted to lynch the claimed Cop. I think he was blurbing out their actual NK choices lol, as in the people they thought it most likely were the real Cop.

 

A couple more quotes to follow.

[hazelkrs1]

So the mafia shot their own symp? I'm guessing they are pretty pissed off right now, lol.

 

Mock amusement?

 

I think it would be better if he gave his reads on the end of the day so that we can still use the time to scumhunt etc.

 

Wants to give Chuckles till the end of day to give his reads (ie let the mafia team have more time to figure out who they should say Chuckles viewed)

 

yates actually 

 

 

Bummer.

 

^Concurrent posts. Chuckles comes out with his convenient as hell viewing, Cloud immediately buys it in the hopes that others will as well. Up to this point Cloud had been acting like Chuckle's claim still needed to be vetted, and that he didn't trust it completely. For him to instantly follow up on Chuckle's post without questioning the convenient viewing, is questionable as all get out.

 

I think Ishy isn't scum. He mentioned once in the Assassins Creed game that it's impossible for him to last to endgame as mafia on DM because everybody always ends up viewing him sooner or later.

 

To be honest I'm quite lost in this game. I won't be voting for Serra though because I actually liked his idea about the BPV.

 

Bolded: Just awful, awful reasoning for why you would think anyone was town.

 

Underlined: "Oh gosh! I'm such a confused townie this game!"

 

Italics: Defends Serra, even tho the BPV idea was pretty awful imo.

 

 

 

I'm going to trust Chuckles because I'm unable to get a solid read on him and I don't want to gamble away our Cop. We don't necessarily need a Cop to win this game, but it sure would make things a lot easier.

So if you have no read on him and you're just following blindly aren't you still gambling?

 

 

I guess I am, but the way I'm gambling right now will have less negative consequences if I'm indeed wrong than if I just agree to lynch him. I think the further we get into the game we will know more about Chuckles and if he is lying or not. 

 

 

"The further we go into the game" - he wants to give Chuckles as looooong as possible to possibly "vet" himself.

 

 

 

Convenient.

Why Yates?

 

 

 

this post

 

 

 

1. Yates, I like your theory about why Chuckles might have done it, but I would have simply waited until tomorrow to say so if you had suspected it.

 

2. If Chuckles is scum then his motivations are to out the real cop, which follows the gameplan of Peace trying to out the cop via his play, and, heck, even works together with Serra's plan of having all power roles step forward.

 

To address point 2 first, I guess we're about to find out.

 

In regards to point 1, I thought about that [since I don't buy his claim either]. But there's no guarantee I'll be alive tomorrow, right? So ultimately I figured it's better to put that out there and introduce some wifom of my own since we already have a cop claim in the thread along with a potential cop counter claim.

 

 

 

generally people who introduce wifom are not townies and alot of his posts didnt make sense to me,

 

*edit: to fix the quotes

 

 

Here's where Chuckles states his reasoning for the "viewing". Not very good reasoning imo.

 

Ah I see it now. So you viewed Yates because he was spreading WIFOM.

 

Cloud backs up Chuckle's poor reasoning, puts it in a simple sentence so it doesn't look as questionable.

 

Just one of the many reasons dude

 

Go back to page 37/38, those 2 pages pinged really hard, it was a choice between nolder or yates and I went with my gut

 

Where Chuckles says it was between Nolder or Yates (two people whom the mafia team would be very likely to kill if Chuckles was lying and was scum)

 

ok it was page 36 and im still not sure about nolder, maybe a null to slight town lean 

 

One of the very next posts says he now has a null to town read on Nolder. After he was one of your top picks for viewing last night? Doesn't add up.

 

If there is a real Cop, please counter now.

 

Why? Imo there's more than enough evidence to have strong distrust in the claim at this point.

 

 

If there is a real Cop, please counter now.

 

^ This would help out a lot.

 

 

Big surprise, Cloud agrees with a Cop CC'ing, even tho he instantly bought that Chuckles "viewed" the same guy who mafia happened to kill last night.

 

[Nolder]

Should I save my "told you so's" for whenever lolguy flips or for post game?

Just curious.

[Tiinker]

So many doubts. He should give us his reads.


The role setups in these games seem to be fairly identical. Minor changes here and there to make them unique but not too different.

[_CLOUD]

 

So the mafia shot their own symp? I'm guessing they are pretty pissed off right now, lol.

 

Mock amusement?  Of course. Everything I say must be mocking right?

 

I think it would be better if he gave his reads on the end of the day so that we can still use the time to scumhunt etc.

 

Wants to give Chuckles till the end of day to give his reads (ie let the mafia team have more time to figure out who they should say Chuckles viewed) I actually wanted to give us more time to scumhunt and figure out who the mafia team might be. If Chuckles got a guilty viewing on someone then it seems like a waste to me if we just speedlynch that person at the start of the Day, losing a whole Day of possible interactions that we can later analyse. 

 

yates actually 

 

 

Bummer.

 

^Concurrent posts. Chuckles comes out with his convenient as hell viewing, Cloud immediately buys it in the hopes that others will as well. Up to this point Cloud had been acting like Chuckle's claim still needed to be vetted, and that he didn't trust it completely. For him to instantly follow up on Chuckle's post without questioning the convenient viewing, is questionable as all get out. I DID question his viewing and everyone else also sees that it is convenient as hell, but I also chose to trust him more and with doing so I need to accept the chance of him having viewed Yates. My "bummer" post was also a bit sarcastic showing that I still have some distrust for him, but I didn't want to make a big point out of it.

 

I think Ishy isn't scum. He mentioned once in the Assassins Creed game that it's impossible for him to last to endgame as mafia on DM because everybody always ends up viewing him sooner or later.

 

To be honest I'm quite lost in this game. I won't be voting for Serra though because I actually liked his idea about the BPV.

 

Bolded: Just awful, awful reasoning for why you would think anyone was town. True, awful reasoning for anyone else.

 

Underlined: "Oh gosh! I'm such a confused townie this game!" It seems like you really like to doubt everything I say in this game.

 

Italics: Defends Serra, even tho the BPV idea was pretty awful imo. That's your opinion. I actually liked the BPV idea, but now that there also flipped a Town Busdriver and Traitor in T1 I think we can safely conclude that all roles are the same in the three threads, meaning that Chuckles is also likely the Cop unless he get's CC'd, no matter how scummy his play his.

 

 

 

I'm going to trust Chuckles because I'm unable to get a solid read on him and I don't want to gamble away our Cop. We don't necessarily need a Cop to win this game, but it sure would make things a lot easier.

So if you have no read on him and you're just following blindly aren't you still gambling?

 

 

I guess I am, but the way I'm gambling right now will have less negative consequences if I'm indeed wrong than if I just agree to lynch him. I think the further we get into the game we will know more about Chuckles and if he is lying or not. 

 

 

"The further we go into the game" - he wants to give Chuckles as looooong as possible to possibly "vet" himself. Or I want to give an other investigative role the chance to check Chuckles OR see if he can find another mafia that isn't as convenient as Yates.

 

 

 

Convenient.

Why Yates?

 

 

 

this post

 

 

 

1. Yates, I like your theory about why Chuckles might have done it, but I would have simply waited until tomorrow to say so if you had suspected it.

 

2. If Chuckles is scum then his motivations are to out the real cop, which follows the gameplan of Peace trying to out the cop via his play, and, heck, even works together with Serra's plan of having all power roles step forward.

 

To address point 2 first, I guess we're about to find out.

 

In regards to point 1, I thought about that [since I don't buy his claim either]. But there's no guarantee I'll be alive tomorrow, right? So ultimately I figured it's better to put that out there and introduce some wifom of my own since we already have a cop claim in the thread along with a potential cop counter claim.

 

 

 

generally people who introduce wifom are not townies and alot of his posts didnt make sense to me,

 

*edit: to fix the quotes

 

 

Here's where Chuckles states his reasoning for the "viewing". Not very good reasoning imo.

 

Ah I see it now. So you viewed Yates because he was spreading WIFOM.

 

Cloud backs up Chuckle's poor reasoning, puts it in a simple sentence so it doesn't look as questionable. Again, how am I backing up Chuckles' statement? I didn't say a single word what I thought about his reasoning! I only summarized it because his quoting was messed up. Like I said, it is very convenient, but I will also trust him more on this.

 

Just one of the many reasons dude

 

Go back to page 37/38, those 2 pages pinged really hard, it was a choice between nolder or yates and I went with my gut

 

Where Chuckles says it was between Nolder or Yates (two people whom the mafia team would be very likely to kill if Chuckles was lying and was scum)

 

ok it was page 36 and im still not sure about nolder, maybe a null to slight town lean 

 

One of the very next posts says he now has a null to town read on Nolder. After he was one of your top picks for viewing last night? Doesn't add up.

 

If there is a real Cop, please counter now.

 

Why? Imo there's more than enough evidence to have strong distrust in the claim at this point.

 

 

If there is a real Cop, please counter now.

 

^ This would help out a lot.

 

 

Big surprise, Cloud agrees with a Cop CC'ing, even tho he instantly bought that Chuckles "viewed" the same guy who mafia happened to kill last night. And here you ignore that I also pointed out Chuckles' inconsistency regarding Nolder. I'm having a very difficult time with reading Chuckles this game because in my eyes he almost always plays scummy, and so I don't know if he really is failing at fake claiming or if he is just a town Cop making mistakes. It looks like the roles are the same in all three games though, and with him being un-cc'd I will believe him.

 

 

[_CLOUD]

These are all the known PR's in the three game threads:

 

T1:

Mafia Vengeful Killer

Town Bus Driver

Mafia Traitor

Town Doc

Town Cop

 

T2: 

Vengeful Mafia

Town Bus Driver

Town Vig

Town BPV

 

T3: 

Town Vig

Mafia Traitor

 

 

@MODS: You guys have made a mistake in the points thread. Csarmi also seems to be the BPV in T3, while he actually flipped Vanilla Town here.

 

 

They seem to be pretty much the same, but of course they could also end up being different... I'm really torn on this right now.

[_CLOUD]

Chuckles claim at L-8 doesn't make any kind of sense to me and it could have just been a plan to get the Cop out there, and if there is no Cop he would be safe. I personally think the safest way around this situation is to give Chuckles more time to catch another scum, and if he doesn't after a few Days we can conclude that he won't be much of a help (no offense) and just lynch him and tell him to give out the rest of his readings?

[Tiinker]

Chuckles claim at L-8 doesn't make any kind of sense to me and it could have just been a plan to get the Cop out there, and if there is no Cop he would be safe. I personally think the safest way around this situation is to give Chuckles more time to catch another scum, and if he doesn't after a few Days we can conclude that he won't be much of a help (no offense) and just lynch him and tell him to give out the rest of his readings?

I believe him because I'm inclined to think that the setups are the same except for the SK in one thread hence multiple kills and explains the OP, Cult Leader in another. 

[hazelkrs1]

Sigh. Why do people do the colors? Easier for one, then you have to start alternating colors and crap. Cloud, next time can you just split the quotes up into miniquotes? If you don't wanna hit the toggle format button at the top left of the window and copy/paste the first quote line, you can at least chop out the parts that aren't needed and put the parts you want to address in [*/quote] windows. Anyways...

 

 

 

So the mafia shot their own symp? I'm guessing they are pretty pissed off right now, lol.

 

Mock amusement?  Of course. Everything I say must be mocking right? Did I strike a nerve?

 

I think it would be better if he gave his reads on the end of the day so that we can still use the time to scumhunt etc.

 

Wants to give Chuckles till the end of day to give his reads (ie let the mafia team have more time to figure out who they should say Chuckles viewed) I actually wanted to give us more time to scumhunt and figure out who the mafia team might be. If Chuckles got a guilty viewing on someone then it seems like a waste to me if we just speedlynch that person at the start of the Day, losing a whole Day of possible interactions that we can later analyse. You can still get info and judge reactions from a speedlynch. If there's a guilty, it should be outed and lynched quickly, so that more concrete info can start being gathered. Info gained from just day activity is malleable and can be forgotten, info which comes partially from coroner reports is much more firm.

 

Either way you are pushing for more time for his viewing claim here, regardless of the reasoning you give.

 

yates actually 

 

 

Bummer.

 

^Concurrent posts. Chuckles comes out with his convenient as hell viewing, Cloud immediately buys it in the hopes that others will as well. Up to this point Cloud had been acting like Chuckle's claim still needed to be vetted, and that he didn't trust it completely. For him to instantly follow up on Chuckle's post without questioning the convenient viewing, is questionable as all get out. I DID question his viewing and everyone else also sees that it is convenient as hell, but I also chose to trust him more and with doing so I need to accept the chance of him having viewed Yates. My "bummer" post was also a bit sarcastic showing that I still have some distrust for him, but I didn't want to make a big point out of it. SHOW ME where you question his viewing. And I call BS on the "sarcasm" in the bummer post.

 

I think Ishy isn't scum. He mentioned once in the Assassins Creed game that it's impossible for him to last to endgame as mafia on DM because everybody always ends up viewing him sooner or later.

 

To be honest I'm quite lost in this game. I won't be voting for Serra though because I actually liked his idea about the BPV.

 

Bolded: Just awful, awful reasoning for why you would think anyone was town. True, awful reasoning for anyone else. No, awful reasoning for ANYONE.

 

Underlined: "Oh gosh! I'm such a confused townie this game!" It seems like you really like to doubt everything I say in this game. Do you disagree with my point? You look like you're trying to play the clueless townie angle there.

 

Italics: Defends Serra, even tho the BPV idea was pretty awful imo. That's your opinion. I actually liked the BPV idea, but now that there also flipped a Town Busdriver and Traitor in T1 I think we can safely conclude that all roles are the same in the three threads, meaning that Chuckles is also likely the Cop unless he get's CC'd, no matter how scummy his play his. A BIG part of my point was that you wouldn't need to out the BPV because more flips from all three threads would likely confirm the theory just as easily, WITHOUT diminishing the utility of a BPV. And oh look, it took like a day or so for that info to come out. The "out the BPV" idea was turrible, bro.

 

And like I said, I think there's enough evidence to be extremely suspect of Chuckles claim WITHOUT a CC. You don't always need a CC to realize a claim is sketchy. If the real Cop doesn't want to CC and wants more time to wrap up the whole scum team in a nice pretty pink ribbon for us, I say more power to them. I just saw Chuckles be a WAY better cop in another game than he's already acting like in here, as far as readings go. Pretty sure he's scum.

 

 

 

I'm going to trust Chuckles because I'm unable to get a solid read on him and I don't want to gamble away our Cop. We don't necessarily need a Cop to win this game, but it sure would make things a lot easier.

So if you have no read on him and you're just following blindly aren't you still gambling?

 

 

I guess I am, but the way I'm gambling right now will have less negative consequences if I'm indeed wrong than if I just agree to lynch him. I think the further we get into the game we will know more about Chuckles and if he is lying or not. 

 

 

"The further we go into the game" - he wants to give Chuckles as looooong as possible to possibly "vet" himself. Or I want to give an other investigative role the chance to check Chuckles OR see if he can find another mafia that isn't as convenient as Yates. Once again, regardless of your stated reasoning, you are pushing to give him as much time as possible. If he flips scum, yeahhh things won't look so good for you boss.

 

 

 

Convenient.
Why Yates?

 

 
 
this post
 
 

 

1. Yates, I like your theory about why Chuckles might have done it, but I would have simply waited until tomorrow to say so if you had suspected it.
 
2. If Chuckles is scum then his motivations are to out the real cop, which follows the gameplan of Peace trying to out the cop via his play, and, heck, even works together with Serra's plan of having all power roles step forward.

To address point 2 first, I guess we're about to find out.
 
In regards to point 1, I thought about that [since I don't buy his claim either]. But there's no guarantee I'll be alive tomorrow, right? So ultimately I figured it's better to put that out there and introduce some wifom of my own since we already have a cop claim in the thread along with a potential cop counter claim.

 

 
 
generally people who introduce wifom are not townies and alot of his posts didnt make sense to me,

*edit: to fix the quotes

 

 

Here's where Chuckles states his reasoning for the "viewing". Not very good reasoning imo.

 

Ah I see it now. So you viewed Yates because he was spreading WIFOM.

 

Cloud backs up Chuckle's poor reasoning, puts it in a simple sentence so it doesn't look as questionable. Again, how am I backing up Chuckles' statement? I didn't say a single word what I thought about his reasoning! I only summarized it because his quoting was messed up. Like I said, it is very convenient, but I will also trust him more on this. You once again don't question his reasoning, and instead boil it down to a simple line for him, possibly so it's harder to get him twisted up in his own reasoning.

 

Just one of the many reasons dude

Go back to page 37/38, those 2 pages pinged really hard, it was a choice between nolder or yates and I went with my gut

 

Where Chuckles says it was between Nolder or Yates (two people whom the mafia team would be very likely to kill if Chuckles was lying and was scum)

 

ok it was page 36 and im still not sure about nolder, maybe a null to slight town lean 

 

One of the very next posts says he now has a null to town read on Nolder. After he was one of your top picks for viewing last night? Doesn't add up.

 

If there is a real Cop, please counter now.

 

Why? Imo there's more than enough evidence to have strong distrust in the claim at this point.

 

 

If there is a real Cop, please counter now.

 

^ This would help out a lot.

 

 

Big surprise, Cloud agrees with a Cop CC'ing, even tho he instantly bought that Chuckles "viewed" the same guy who mafia happened to kill last night. And here you ignore that I also pointed out Chuckles' inconsistency regarding Nolder. I'm having a very difficult time with reading Chuckles this game because in my eyes he almost always plays scummy, and so I don't know if he really is failing at fake claiming or if he is just a town Cop making mistakes. It looks like the roles are the same in all three games though, and with him being un-cc'd I will believe him.  If you find Chuckle's stance on Nolder to be so weird, why are you still so dead set on believing his claim? You brought up the KH game too my friend, so you also know the stupidity of ALWAYS using formulaic plays like "Always trust a PR claim till it's CC'ed".

 

 

 

 

[serra]

<- is still not scum... 

 

 

 

 

Well firstly I disagree that the theory was sound, as the likelihood of getting someone to out themselves would have to be taken into account when considering whether it was a good idea or not, and I also don't like the concept of letting him off the hook in 2 threads if he claimed scum in one...
 
...
 
Finally, and here's one of my biggest problems with it: Why would scum Csarlami in one thread care two pebbles about town in the other two threads?

While I wasn't a huge proponent of Serra's plan, I can't see the scum motivation in proposing it. Mostly, I think it's pretty Town thought because of the answer to the question in bold. If I were Town in 3 threads [as Salami claims], a Town PR in one of them, and facing the threat Salami is in? I'd claim scum in one of my VT threads - thus saving my PR. Then again, I'd probably do the same thing if I were scum in one thread to save my scum role. Hindsight FTW.

 

 

I mentioned this in T2 when building a case on Yates, but I think it deserves more reference here now that Yates flipped traitor. He is obviously trying to speak to logic and good reasoning here to backup Serra's plan to out the power roles. Its his job as a Traitor to help his team, I think that team starts with Serra.

 

Vote Serra.

 

 

You obviously don't understand what was happening, and that's okay, but please don't falsely assume I am scum for it. My suggestion had nothing to do with outing power roles. I (like many) falsely assumed Csarmi was scum in one of the threads, and so I wanted to save his town-selves.

 

The reason Yates didn't claim to see any scum-motivation was because there was none. Yates would have known I would be suspicious of him had he claimed otherwise. Your claim that Yates would falsely defend me because he knows I was scum is silly, not only because Yates is a serial busser, but because unless they start being a serious topic of discussion (which I wasn't; at least not in this thread), he'd be much better of just ignoring his buddies. That way he avoid both association, and being nightkilled for too much interaction.

 

@mod: does a traitor know the identity of all members of the scum-team?

 

Desp: I never suggested a mass-claim at this point. Instead I mentioned that there may come a point when a mass-claim could be game-breaking (as there can be in all open setup games). I don't see how you can find my BPV suggestion scummy, since you barely managed to convince anyone that it wouldn't work.

 

I'm not making these suggestions because I'm scum trying to mislead town. That would be a horrible strategy for scum-me. I have spent a LOT of time designing and analysing setups, so I think something I can offer to this game, along with my reads, is my suggestions on how town can maximise their chances of winning. As scum, I would have no reason to do that. It is something that I know gives me undue attention, so I could instead be lurking this out, or driving easy lynches.

 

Desp worries me a lot, with his recent tirade about how chuckles couldn't possibly be telling the truth, but placing a vote on me for a few suggestions he disagrees with? I think Desp knows chuckles is scum, but hopes to get me out of the way before turning to bussing chuckles.

[Pralaya]

yates actually 

 

Did you get a Yates read as scum?

[Verbal32]

@Des:  having the BPV reveal themselves is not a terrible play.  We've already been over this.  It hurts the role's usefulness now, but makes it amazing at endgame.  I'm not sure if you are purposely ignoring this, or just tunneling your idea and not realizing it.

 

Early in the game, scum isn't as upset with a wasted NK, because they know it'll count when endgame comes around and they can't afford a miss.  This is just simple logic.

[serra]

What I really don't get is why he calls me scummy for it. The idea apparently isn't as slam-dunk as I thought it was. I suppose that's fine. His conclusion, however, requires that not only that the idea hurts town, but also that I don't believe it to be a good idea and further that I purposefully suggested it to hurt town. I think that's rather ridiculous, and just might be desp showing his true colour. I frankly don't believe town-desp actually would base a case on two people (cloud and me) on them supporting a plan of action for town. Also, he doesn't include verbal in the same list, even though he has probably been more supportive than cloud. Cloud is simply the easier target, and he doesn't want to antagonise verbal.

 

Notice how desp deliberately DIDN'T latch on to the point made by BG. He didn't really call me out then, but he still wants a reason to vote me here, so uses this horrible excuse of a case that I am deliberately suggesting strategies that would hurt town.

 

VOTE: desp

[bgrishinko]

<- is still not scum... 

 

 (....quote...)

 

You obviously don't understand what was happening, and that's okay, but please don't falsely assume I am scum for it. My suggestion had nothing to do with outing power roles. I (like many) falsely assumed Csarmi was scum in one of the threads, and so I wanted to save his town-selves.

 

The reason Yates didn't claim to see any scum-motivation was because there was none. Yates would have known I would be suspicious of him had he claimed otherwise. Your claim that Yates would falsely defend me because he knows I was scum is silly, not only because Yates is a serial busser, but because unless they start being a serious topic of discussion (which I wasn't; at least not in this thread), he'd be much better of just ignoring his buddies. That way he avoid both association, and being nightkilled for too much interaction.

 

@mod: does a traitor know the identity of all members of the scum-team?

 

Desp: I never suggested a mass-claim at this point. Instead I mentioned that there may come a point when a mass-claim could be game-breaking (as there can be in all open setup games). I don't see how you can find my BPV suggestion scummy, since you barely managed to convince anyone that it wouldn't work.

 

I'm not making these suggestions because I'm scum trying to mislead town. That would be a horrible strategy for scum-me. I have spent a LOT of time designing and analysing setups, so I think something I can offer to this game, along with my reads, is my suggestions on how town can maximise their chances of winning. As scum, I would have no reason to do that. It is something that I know gives me undue attention, so I could instead be lurking this out, or driving easy lynches.

 

Desp worries me a lot, with his recent tirade about how chuckles couldn't possibly be telling the truth, but placing a vote on me for a few suggestions he disagrees with? I think Desp knows chuckles is scum, but hopes to get me out of the way before turning to bussing chuckles.

 

It became obvious to me that Yates had to have been scum (in at least 1 thread, turns out it was two) based upon his defense/non-denfense of your plan. If you notice, he didn't come right out and support your plan, he only only talked about how it couldn't have been scum motivated. This allowed him to hope someone would out themselves in this thread without having to out himself in T2. So he isn't linking himself too thickly, but he is still trying to help with the image that your plan isn't bad and maybe, just maybe, someone would out themselves helping his scum team here.

 

With your apparent experience of setting up games you'd also be able to deceitfully give reasonable sounding advice about game setup and strategy that would work to your advantage rather than maximizing town's ability to win. As Verbal just said, I do understand the Utility of revealing a BPV at some point in the game, however it was your further implication of full cross thread massclaim that is the problem. Just now, in the big bold letters you said that you never suggested a mass-claim "at this point" and that one could be game breaking. However, by your own words, you were happy to say that if the BPV claimed, a full massclaim would pretty much be the next step. That is suggesting a game-wide massclaim, so don't act like you never did with qualifiers like "at this point." Own up to it, otherwise it looks like you are backtracking.

 

I want to refer you to your previous statements:

 

Just came back from a festival and I apparently didn't end up getting lynched. Sweet!

 

Before I read up (which might have to be tomorrow, because I'm shattered):

 

Peace is scum. You simply don't get town fake softclaiming cop. The fact that I'm still alive means either the cop was stupid enough to cc, or peace backpedalled before I got lynched to save himself. Please let it be the latter.

 

VOTE: Peace

 

A general comment about cop play: never, ever out yourself before you need to (either to save yourself or a valuable PR), particularly in a game of this size. Lynching one scum is generally not worth losing the cop. Cop results should be breadcrumbed, so the cop should never need to claim before LyLo.

First you say that a cop should never ever reveal except at LYLO. Then in the next post, you quickly and wholly believe Chuckles cop claim because you believe that all 3 games are the same even though a BPV never revealed to make that a known factor.

 

 

3 things:

 

1. I am again posting even though I probably shouldn't. It's 4am here, and checking how this thread is going is literally the last thing I'm doing before passing out. This is not me lurking, this is me having busy weekends... Surely, if I actually was following the thread, the most opportune time to vote peace, if I were scum trying to get him lynched, would have been DIRECTLY after he pulled the brake line.

 

2. I, too, would expect a Doc protection to only prevent a single kill. If this is different here, that'd actually quite surprise me. @mod: if a doctor role exists in this game, does it protect from multiple kills?

 

3. I believe chuckles' cop claim. There's should be now way in heck we're lynching him today. Yates is good for his unvote and further explanation. Nolder is less so. Even though I know no one will listen to my suggested play, my suggestion would be to ask the bullet-proof townie in this thread to claim, which would pretty much confirm that all 3 threads have the same PR's, meaning we can keep chuckles alive. Before anyone complains about me role-fishing: I suggest outing probably the weakest PR we have in this thread to stop people from lynching the cop, who may be our only hope of winning this, as well as giving us valuable information for the town-games in the other threads. If there actually is a bullet-proof townie in this thread and the two others, I would actually also consider the possibility that the game could be solved by a game-wide mass claim.

 

I will actually read the other threads tomorrow (probably morning)...

Here's where it comes from that we think you are suggesting a game-wide mass claim, and you play coy about it, but you still are suggesting it. You say if there is a BPV, then a game-wide mass claim would solve the whole game.

 

 

@Desp: that was little more than a short addendum so long as we haven't seen more flips, but if all 3 threads are indeed the same, depending on the complete list of PR's, it is possible we could at some point guarantee a town-win by mass-claiming in all threads, forcing scum to trade 1-for-1 on fakeclaims, or having scum all claim VT and directing PR's.

 

In general, open setups (with all roles known) are more town-sided than the same setups without knowledge of the potential roles, and open setups can sometimes be solved once about half the game has flipped.

And here it is again.

 

You do want a mass claim, but you are holding it off for a more opportune moment. The problem with a mass claim is that essentially it tells town nothing as there's going to be a big swatch of VT claims and the mafia will have a perfect knowledge of who is a power role for manilpulation. Mass claims only seem to benefit town early on in Kitchen Sink games IMO because then scum MUST have some sort of fake claim and can't just VT their way out.

[serra]

I don't want a massclaim. You don't understand what I'm saying. I keep using words like "possibly" and "can" for a reason. I'm not being coy or subtle (if you think there's anything subtle about my play, you haven't been reading this game), I am saying that THERE ARE OPEN SETUPS THAT CAN BE SOLVED AND TIME WILL TELL WHETHER THIS IS ONE OF THEM.

 

I never said that this would be the next step to the BPV claiming, it is just something that MAY work once we know more about the setup(s)...

[bgrishinko]

I understand you, but what I'm saying is that you were using the BPV claim as a first step towards the mass claim idea. If the BPV had claimed, then you might be arguing for a mass claim now or in a few days.

 

I understand you are saying time will tell whether this is a setup that can solved by mass claim, but I'm saying that I completely disagree with you unless this were a role madness/kitchen sink game. Maybe this is just an argument of mafia theory, but I think it was a scummy suggestion.

[Nolder]

Chuckles claim at L-8 doesn't make any kind of sense to me and it could have just been a plan to get the Cop out there, and if there is no Cop he would be safe. I personally think the safest way around this situation is to give Chuckles more time to catch another scum, and if he doesn't after a few Days we can conclude that he won't be much of a help (no offense) and just lynch him and tell him to give out the rest of his readings?

Again, that's not how this works. By the time we give lolguy that time unless we've lynched the mafia ourselves our numbers are going to be down.

Probably to the point where we can't afford a mislynch. You didn't lynch lolguy when he revealed so now you're stuck with him unless you have solid evidence he's scum. Anything else is a bad move or a waste of time.