Will Moridin mirror Rand ?

[grump]

Since they crossed streams there has been a connection. Rand seems to be suffering from the side effects of Moridin using the true power. I wonder how Moridins left hand is doing?

[Moghedian]

Yeah, that sounds about right because Rand was complaining about his eye-sight so I wonder if the saa flickering through his eyes were visible to others....

[RobertAlexWillis]

No, Rand is not getting saa. The "black flecks" in his vision appeared only one time: immediately after Semirhage blew a fireball up in his face. They did not move in a straight line across his eye (which saa do) and they interfered with his vision (which saa do not do). Not all "black flecks" are saa, and Rand's "black flecks" are not related to the True Power.

 

The only way in which Rand and Moridin are mirroring each other is in their nausea when either of them seizes saidin. Moridin doesn't seem to be suffering from the wound in Rand's side, so I don't see why he would suffer from Rand's loss of a hand.

[Mr Ares]

I would laugh if the black flecks were saa, because almost everyone would be wrong. Almost certainly not going to happen though. Also, in Crown of Swords, Patterns Within Patterns, Moridin apparently sees the saa from within, so Rand seeing black flecks doesn't mean it's not them. The other evidence pretty much proves though. Really, I just like long winded fence sitting.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I give up.

[Thor]

I would laugh if the black flecks were saa' date=' because almost everyone would be wrong. Almost certainly not going to happen though. Also, in Crown of Swords, Patterns Within Patterns, Moridin apparently sees the [i']saa[/i] from within, so Rand seeing black flecks doesn't mean it's not them. The other evidence pretty much proves though. Really, I just like long winded fence sitting.

 

It's not saa.

[Mr Ares]

I give up.

Coward! Stand and fight!

 

It's not saa.

 

That statement has no wiggle room. Just because they don't act like saa' date=' and just because Rand didn't use the True Power, and just because it takes a lot of TP usage to get [i']saa[/i], and just because it would be an incredible coincidence if Rand and Moridin's link started behaving in such a way as to allow them at the exact moment that a fireball explodes near Rand's face, doesn't mean it's not saa. And yes, I am just doing this to be annoying really, there's no real point. So, in conclusion, I give up.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I'm a coward.

[cloglord]

Ahh, robert you stepped up to the plate on the Mattin Stepanos thread. I wish that thread hadn't gotten screwed up, I liked it.

[maximus34]

seriously poeple... stand in a dark room... put your face next to a lamp... then turn it on then off quick... i bet you see black/ purple flecks and whatnot as well. HE HAD A FIREBALL BLOW UP IN FRONT OF HIS FACE... what the hell do you think the vision problems and black flecks are from?!?! its getting blown way out of proportion.

[Thor]

Personally, after reading through the books, never for one second did I ever think of Rand channeling True Power.

 

I really don't know where people come up with this.

 

The balefire crossing incident only implied that TP and OP obviously has some sort of resonating effect (which is kind of obvious since that was the effect that Lanfear and co felt when drilling the bore).

[Moghedian]

Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.

Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.

 

Hmmm...

*Ignores*

[Majsju]

Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.

Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.

 

Hmmm...

*Ignores*

 

Actually, if you find a thread about the matter you want to discuss, please use that instead of starting a new thread, no matter how long it has been since the last post. Having a gasillion threads about the same damn topic is just annoying.

[Moghedian]

*Gets to the reason she revived the topic*

Well, I think that even though all of you are so determined to rule out the possibility that it could be saa there is still a possibility...

seriously poeple... stand in a dark room... put your face next to a lamp... then turn it on then off quick... i bet you see black/ purple flecks and whatnot as well.  HE HAD A FIREBALL BLOW UP IN FRONT OF HIS FACE... what the hell do you think the vision problems and black flecks are from?!?!

 

Didn't he have issues with his eyesight before this? Or was that just dizziness from using the power? It seems to me that he is having many problems similar to over-uing the true power... :-\

[Guest Dreadlord]

The scene where Semirhage blows Rands hand off is on p588 KoD.

 

When Moridin comments about the saa he says they do not impair on his vision, true. But there are several things that are nagging at me about this.

 

Firstly, we know that Moridin can see the flecks when they float across his eyes. So when he says it doesn't impair his vision, I think he means it doesn't impair HIS vision, because he is used to it. Especially since Ishamael was as much a True Power addict as Moridin. So, Ishamael/Moridin is used to the black flecks due to 3000+ years of True Power addiction. Rand isn't, so IF the Saa were in Rands eyes they WOULD impair his vision. If anyone saw black flecks on their eyes and werent used to it, it would be a distraction if nothing else, regardless of their cause.

 

Secondly, while the flecks do float across Moridins eyes in a straight line the first time we see it, it is confirmed that the saa is a side effect of extensive True Power usage, and considering Moridin more or less stopped using Saidin I would wager that the saa are considerably worse on him by KoD. So no longer just one fleck in a straight line.

 

 

Thirdly, as we all know Semirhage blows Rands hand off and damages his eyes. The exact wording in RANDS PoV are "Black flecks shimmered in his vision, and everything seemed faintly hazy, as if seen through water." Merely moments later the flecks are gone, while the haziness remains. Seems abit suspicious to me, if they were your bog standard black dots due to a light that bright and that close, that had that much of an impact on his eyes, surely the flecks would last longer than a few moments. Rands excuse for not noticing the flecks vanish as soon as they did is the fact that his hand was blown off, a slight distraction.

 

I personally do think it was the saa, and Ive thought this for a while. Something just occured to me while writing this post; I wonder if Moridin was looking through Rands eyes via the link and channeled the True Power through the link. Two possible reasons for this; Moridin did it instinctively, as if the fireball was coming at his own face, or he did it deliberately to "protect" Rand in order to stop himself from being hurt as a side effect caused by the link. it is obvious this link is as new to Moridin as it is to Rand, so Moridin doesnt have a clue what to expect.

[grump]

Out of the blue it occurred to me to wonder if Moridin can see the three boys in colors when he happens to think about them.

 

Every one has been high centered on the Saa issue so long it never occurred to me to wonder what else they might share.

[Majsju]

Out of the blue it occurred to me to wonder if Moridin can see the three boys in colors when he happens to think about them.

 

Every one has been high centered on the Saa issue so long it never occurred to me to wonder what else they might share.

 

That seems extremely unlikely, since they do not really "share" anything except for the sickness when channeling, and seeing eachother. And just to toss it out there, possibly stray thoughts might drift from one to another, like the one in COT. But the colour flashes the boys have of eachother is due to them being ta'veren and "linked".

[Dhaos]

What indication do we have that Rand has ever come anywhere near channelling the True Power?

 

I'm with RAW.  They're not saa.

[aevogt]

Plus, we don't know what Moridin sees when the saa move across his eyes.  To an outsider, they appear as small black dots.

 

Maybe to moridin, they don't impair his vision because they appear transparent.

 

We don't know what they are or why the true power causes them to appear.

 

There is just no evidence indicating that Rand has ever touched the true power and multitudes indicating that he hasn't, specifically that you need DO apprival to do so.

[Majsju]

Judging from ACOS, Moridin does indeed see the Saa.

 

At this point, the Saa appears as black flecks floating horisontally across his eyes. When Moghedien later meets Moridin, she sees a tiny black fleck floating horisontally across Moridins eyes, and thinks that Moridin must have used the TP more than once. Ie, it takes repeated uses of TP to make the Saa appear, and there is much more of it when someone is actually using it.

 

Compare this to the black flecks that shimmers in Rands vision, in combination with all the other symptoms added to this, all symptoms of someone exposed to very bright light.

 

So no, there is not a chance Rand has even a brief touch of Saa.

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

And just to toss it out there, possibly stray thoughts might drift from one to another, like the one in COT.

UBQUOTE

 

Can somebody remind me of that please? Tell me what happened, or a page reference? Iv read COS but I dont remember that bit

[Majsju]

Rand "hears" a musing about the Creator as a gardener, creating gardens and then letting them care for themselves. He first thinks it is LTT, but then notices that LTT appears to be listening to the musing as well.

 

Incidently, Moridin was/is a philosopher, and this musing fits quite well with what we know about his thoughts.

[Guest Dreadlord]

What makes you think it was one of Moridins thoughts?

[Luckers]

Wasn't that what Maj just explained?

 

A philosophical thought that came from someone other than Rand or LTT, with the only other person linked to Rand being Moridin, who was a philosopher.

[wvlr]

Rand "hears" a musing about the Creator as a gardener, creating gardens and then letting them care for themselves. He first thinks it is LTT, but then notices that LTT appears to be listening to the musing as well.

 

Incidently, Moridin was/is a philosopher, and this musing fits quite well with what we know about his thoughts.

 

Does anyone know where that was on ACoT  or can you post the exact quote?    I would like to read that exact wording again.

 

(Goes to look for CoT himself........)