Everything You Hate About the Family Trakand!

[AesSedaiGuy]

This started as a convo between Gentled Ben and I on the White Winter Carnival on Favorite Characters.

 

I think it might have gotten a little Spammy for that thread, so I wanted to move it over here and let the discussion go ...

 

No Trakand Defenders please. Point/Counter-Point is fine, but don't try to change our minds about the worthiness of the Andor Ruling Family .... AS CHARACTERS ...

 

May contain some Spoilers, when in conjunction with WT/W and DM policies. This means NO AMOL Spoilers outside of appropriate AMOL Spoiler threads and book discussions on DM.

 

Respectful discussion, CofC and PG-13 requirements expected.

 

Keep Spam to a minimum, and Trakand related. LOL

 

Hate on Haters! :)

[Ryrin]

Lol, Galad is narrow minded and raided Gareth's forces. Gawyn killed Warders and Siuan was stilled. Morgase wanted Thom's head and sent away Gareth Bryne. She chose a foresaken.

[AesSedaiGuy]

So Gentled Ben and I were discussing how we feel about Egwene.

 

Of course Gawyn came up, which led to the Family Trakand.

 

Who is your least favorite Trakand? And does anyone else hope sometimes, that the book will change and Dylin will accept the crown?

[AesSedaiGuy]

Lol, Galad is narrow minded and raided Gareth's forces. Gawyn killed Warders and Siuan was stilled. Morgase wanted Thom's head and sent away Gareth Bryne. She chose a foresaken.

Yes, the family seem to be bad decision makers! I know people may try and defend her with the whole compulsion ... But compulsion just took what was already there and ran with it.

 

Also ... Is anyone else a little creeped that both Siuan and Moiraine get Morgase's sloppy seconds? LOL

[Ryrin]

So Ben and I were discussing how we feel about Egwene.

 

Of course Gawyn came up, which led to the Family Trakand.

 

Who is your least favorite Trakand? And does anyone else hope sometimes, that the book will change and Dylin will accept the crown?

 

 

 

I like Elayne as queen.

[Mashiara Sedai]

Also ... Is anyone else a little creeped that both Siuan and Moiraine get Morgase's sloppy seconds? LOL

 

LOL  I always wondered about that too!  That's so strange!

[Aiel Heart]

*Sigh* I hate hate threads

[AesSedaiGuy]

[i like Elayne as queen.

Elayne is partially redeemable, sometimes ... But this is the same chick who went traipsing off to battle wits with the Black Ajah and got caught/captured ... TWICE!

 

She is my least fave of Rand's women ... Like it doesn't even compare. Plus her whole, "Rand isn't going to give ME Andor! I'm going to willfully ignore and misinterpret the man who loves me, savior of the world and who kept my Kingdom from being destroyed, collapsing or being ran by the Shadow!"

 

Yeah ... She is pretty obnoxious ...

[AesSedaiGuy]

 

Lol, Galad is narrow minded and raided Gareth's forces. Gawyn killed Warders and Siuan was stilled. Morgase wanted Thom's head and sent away Gareth Bryne. She chose a foresaken.

Galad's narrow-minded ness is blech ... But I think he might have become my favorite "Trakands"... Maybe because he's not really a Trakand ...hmmmm,. :)

[John E. Kelley]

Gawyn's so DREAMY!! I could sit on his knee forEVER!! *gags*

[AesSedaiGuy]

So this was Ben's post before I moved the topic here:

 

I wasn't, but I was upset with him for being in that fight. I'm not real big on any of the Trakands, actually. Elayne is my least favorite of the main characters, including Faile (because I think Brandon pretty much fixed Faile after taking over, but he seems to have the same opinion of Elayne as I do, and left her to her intolerable ways). Morgause is just kind of...meh. 

I find his point about Faile really poignant. I do wonder, not that he would/could ever say, but Elayne had to be annoying to write.

Morgase being "meh" is the nicest thing you can say about her, I guess. Kind of glad she got a little humbled with the Shaido.

[AesSedaiGuy]

Gawyn's so DREAMY!! I could sit on his knee forEVER!! *gags*

LMAO hahahahahahaha

 

(I assume "A" is PG-13 ... If not, will be happy to edit) :)

[Christine]

Ugh. those people. They follow faile on my hate list.

[Ryrin]

 

 

Lol, Galad is narrow minded and raided Gareth's forces. Gawyn killed Warders and Siuan was stilled. Morgase wanted Thom's head and sent away Gareth Bryne. She chose a foresaken.

Yes, the family seem to be bad decision makers! I know people may try and defend her with the whole compulsion ... But compulsion just took what was already there and ran with it.

 

Also ... Is anyone else a little creeped that both Siuan and Moiraine get Morgase's sloppy seconds? LOL

 

 

 

Yes, I noted that and was disturbed although I like both men in question.

[Ryrin]

Gawyn's so DREAMY!! I could sit on his knee forEVER!! *gags*

Gawyn's so DREAMY!! I could sit on his knee forEVER!! *gags*

 

Ahhhhhh. Gag me.

[Elgee]

Elaine. Getting perfectly innocent Aes Sedai killed due to complete and utter stupidity and bullheadedness in her hunt for the Black Ajah. And then saying it was worth it!

 

PS: bear in mind NO SPOILERS, people!

[AesSedaiGuy]

Yes, I noted that and was disturbed although I like both men in question.

As do I. Much more than Morgase. I guess it's hard to say no to a Queen, but they both did better the second time around.

 

*although, RJ COULD have developed the Moiraine/Thom relationship a little more, to make it a little more believable ... Just saying ...

[AesSedaiGuy]

Elaine. Getting perfectly innocent Aes Sedai killed due to complete and utter stupidity and bullheadedness in her hunt for the Black Ajah. And then saying it was worth it!

 

PS: bear in mind NO SPOILERS, people!

Very good point Mother. Aes Sedai are NOT Red Shirts to be used like cannon fodder (ooh, would that be "dragon" fodder ...) ;)

 

Especially to appease her own ego ... Glad SHE was safe *sarcastic voice*

 

... shame other Sisters were not. :(

[Ryrin]

Didn't Siuan as Amyrlin tell Nynaeve and Egwene that if they could stop the Black their lives would be worth the price?

[Gentled Ben]

Probably, but Elayne wasn't stopping the Black; she was just risking the lives of her allies to destroy a few Black sisters because she felt confident in her own invincibility, due to Min's viewing. Siuan risked a few novices to destroy 13 Black Sisters with a boatload of ter'angreal. Also, Siuan was a lousy Amyrlin who was pulled down for a reason. She should not be the example of how to effectively use one's human resources.

 

Galad is not a Trakand, as was mentioned. :p I found him to be pretty irritating early on, but he grew on me around KoD or so, and in ToM, he was good. Still irritating in his stubborn, narrow-minded ways, but consistent and reliable in them at the same time. He is true to his word, and you know where you stand and what you get with him. He is like a horrible version of Ned Stark. :p He rocks late in the books, though. I forgive him for the first 10 books. :)

 

I hate Elayne, more than Faile. I actually liked Faile when she was introduced in TDR. I loved her as a foil to Moiraine and a wonderful mystery to Perrin. It was fun watching him fall in love with her, but she blew it with me when she connived to go the the Two Rivers with him and with the way she behaved as they travelled through the Ways. It's good that she did what she did while in Emond's Field, but that does not make up for the rest of it. Then, she just becomes this arrogant, bickering, shrew of a wife to him, who finally all but ruins a couple of later books with her terrible storyline, her unsymathetic POVs, and her dreadful effect on what became a really lame and emo version of Perrin. I think Sanderson fixed her, though. She stopped ticking me off almost as soon as he took over, and I did not mind her POVs in aMoL at all. Elayne, on the other hand...

 

I thought she was okay in the first book, when she was the pretty princess who nursed little birds and such back to health, but that only lasted until she made it to the White Tower. I did not like ANY of the three Wonder Girls until Egwene stopped sucking in the Aiel Waste. While both Egwene and Nynaeve improved, Elayne just got worse and worse. I was bored with her story in Valan Luca's show, and as the tale progressed, she just became more and more arrogant and selfish. She should have walked away from Andor and let one of the other women rule it instead of squandering its resources in a bloody civil war just to sate her overblown ego. I cannot go further without spoilers, but suffice it to say, that in the end, I do not see what Andor, or the rest of the forces of the Light, for that matter, really gained from her ascending to the Lion Throne. 

 

She does not have the honor nor the honesty and self-awareness to see the wrong in her treatment of Mat, and not just in the Stone of Tear (which Aviendha had ot point out to her), but throughout the story. At no point does she stop treating Mat poorly, not when he loses good men fetching her stupid bowl in Ebou Dar, not when she connives to take his medallion away, and certainly not when she thinks of counterfeiting it or stripping him of the Band in TGS, that same book in which she considers executing Perrin on sight for raising the banner of a province that has been ignored by her Crown for centuries. Seriously, screw Elayne. If I could choose one person to die in these books, it would be her. I really don't see much good in her at all, and I've never really enjoyed any parts of her storyline, although the first time through, I thought the political wrangling in Caemlyn was a little interesting, with the adolescent leaders of the various Houses and Dyelin and all. The second time through the books though, those chapters also brought me no joy. I hate Elayne.

 

And yeah, like Elgee said, NO SPOILERS! :p

[Gentled Ben]

I can't give Gawyn a proper rant without spoiling aMoL, so I'll just say, Elaida. That was a big enough mistake right there, no matter how bad Siuan was. Also, Egwene could do better. She's smart, she's beautiful, and she's powerful. She could have a man, someone like Lan, instead of this rash boy. Besides, who wants Elayne as a sister-in-law? 

 

Morgase is a fickle and tempermental tramp who wasn't that exciting to read, but I didn't hate her. She was just...meh. Better than more of Faile's POVs in those chapters, I suppose.

[Sunrise Lord]

Gawyn I have nothing nice to say about at all, except that he did sorta redeem his self in a way in AMoL.  Morgase.. eh.  Elayne, I kinda like, especially in AMoL.

[Moon Sedai]

Galad- He reminds me of everything I hated about high school. Too pretty, too good at everything. All the girls loved him, but he'd never go after *any* of them. Too uppity. 

 

Gawyn- He's too head stuck on revenge most of the time. He's so convinced that rand killed his mom, or his sister, or both, that when he discovers both are alive, he still doesn't quite redeem himself. He's so "Myself before my sister" that he becomes the overprotective overbearing brother that Elayne doesn't need. 

 

Elayne. 

Generally, I actually like Elayne. 
She wanted Andor on her terms, not Rand's. because she knew that if Rand gave her the throne, it would be tenuous at best because of it being a gift, and that as soon as the LB/Rand's death, all the Andoran noble houses would rebel. 

I like how she tries to curse, but is not good at it. (I get the same looks she does when I use foul language.) 

What do I hate about Elayne? 
She's not willing to see Galad as her brother, even though they shared a father. That boy loved her mother as his own, and still.... she didn't see it. 

Just because she didn't like him.

 

 

Morgase... I liked her better after she'd been taken by the aiel.

While I'm certain she was a good queen until she was brainwashed by Forsaken, she was kinda vapid. 

Like 90% of the book greens. 

[Ryrin]

Galad- He reminds me of everything I hated about high school. Too pretty, too good at everything. All the girls loved him, but he'd never go after *any* of them. Too uppity. 

 

Gawyn- He's too head stuck on revenge most of the time. He's so convinced that rand killed his mom, or his sister, or both, that when he discovers both are alive, he still doesn't quite redeem himself. He's so "Myself before my sister" that he becomes the overprotective overbearing brother that Elayne doesn't need. 

 

Elayne. 

Generally, I actually like Elayne. 

She wanted Andor on her terms, not Rand's. because she knew that if Rand gave her the throne, it would be tenuous at best because of it being a gift, and that as soon as the LB/Rand's death, all the Andoran noble houses would rebel. 

I like how she tries to curse, but is not good at it. (I get the same looks she does when I use foul language.) 

What do I hate about Elayne? 

She's not willing to see Galad as her brother, even though they shared a father. That boy loved her mother as his own, and still.... she didn't see it. 

Just because she didn't like him.

 

 

Morgase... I liked her better after she'd been taken by the aiel.

While I'm certain she was a good queen until she was brainwashed by Forsaken, she was kinda vapid. 

Like 90% of the book greens. 

Maybe I am mistaken but wasn't it Galad who thought Rand killed his mother?

[Gentled Ben]

I think they both believed it.