Hangar 18 [BASIC GAME] Game over! Scum win. Nolder & WBK.

[michellem]

Ok I think this is borderlining between game play and personal attacks, and I don't see how it's helping us find scum right now.

 

 

I was gonna post my thoughts now, and realized I have not been paying enough attention this game at all; I gotta do a re-read before I can say anything conclusive about anyone. What I know though is that I'm feeling uneasy about Kronos for some reason. But, more to come over a re-read, should be able to get that in today.

[_CLOUD]

Yeah I'm also busy with a reread atm. 

[peacesells]

Vote Count

 

Darthe (3): Nolder, Hallia. Songstress

Hallia (2): Darthe, Cloud

Cloud (1): WBK

 

Not Voting: Mish

 

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

 

Deadline is at 3PM MST Friday.

[Songstress]

 

 

Thank you, Nolder, for your advice. I apologize for personally ruining mafia for you. Perhaps I'll stop playing after this game because I am unable to conform to your standards.

Please stop being passive aggressive. It's seriously annoying. You're implying that I am somehow holding you personally responsible for an activity problem within our entire community and that my standards are unreasonable. You're painting me as a bad guy here. Seriously? You think averaging less than 1 post per page is a reasonable amount of activity? And I'm just a jerk for calling you out on it?

Frankly, yes, i think your expectations are unreasonable and your harping at me about it is not making this game any more fun for me so it's counterproductive to the result you are looking for.

 

Unless you think I'm mafia because of it and would like to lynch me for it, the game will be better served if you stop.

[Darthe]

Personally I would lynch every inactive every game and give the mafia a win until people picked their crap up and started playing.  I care very little about my standings on some scoreboard, if we can't play it's useless.  

 

I do enjoy the case on me though, it was very enlightening.  Are you willing to die tomorrow if wrong?

[Nolder]

Frankly, yes, i think your expectations are unreasonable

Wow really? In your opinion 16 posts in a 17 page game is acceptable? 

 

and your harping at me about it is not making this game any more fun for me so it's counterproductive to the result you are looking for.

No, it's not. What I want is for people to actually play the games they sign up for or to not play. When you sign up you are telling everyone you are going to be here and participate and when you don't do that you let down everyone. It's not just about you. It's like agreeing to play a game of monopoly and then watching TV instead. Sure you throw the dice on commercials but are you actually involved and playing the game? No. So by being called out on your activity and/or being policy lynched you are either hopefully going to pick up your activity in the future or you're not going to sign up for games which you obviously don't have the time for. Either way is good with me. Why am I going to make a game more fun for you when what you are doing (or not doing technically) brings down the fun for everyone else?

 

Unless you think I'm mafia because of it and would like to lynch me for it, the game will be better served if you stop.

Game related: First of all I already dropped the matter. You are the one that brought it back up. Anyway it's not really about whether you are mafia or not as I've explained before. Lurkers are an unknowable element. When they make it to end game the other townie usually can't pick them out from the scum because they usually haven't contributed anything worthwhile. That isn't to say townies can't make the right choice on a hunch or get lucky nor am I saying you've contributed nothing worthwhile this entire game. I'm saying that a day 1 policy lynch of someone with the lowest post count would have been a smart move.

 

Non game related: I'm not going to take back my position. When you lurk to the point it's impacting the game you're being rude to other plays and the mod. It's not just you, as I've said, it's a community problem. We need to start getting a handle on this. People have already quit playing mafia on DM specifically because games move at a snails pace and usually require several sub ins per game. That's not ok and I will call out anyone who does these things. And you know what? I've been kind of unfair. On day 1 I was focused on lynching you because you had the lowest post count and it made no sense to talk about anyone else. I can see why it would seem like I'm singling you out and I'm sorry for that. Just to be clear everything I've said about this so far applies to the rest of you as well. WBK, Cloud, Mish, and Hallia your activity has all been low. I know Mish was having some internet issues but that only lasted a day or two right? Come on, you could have done better I think. Hallia I know you're new but for the record having less posts than the mod is usually on the wrong side of the list so next time you need to speak up more. Cloud and WBK as far as I know neither of you has any particular excuse and I'm putting you in the exact same boat as Songstress. The low amount of activity has caused our game to go slower partially because of all of you and that is not ok. This doesn't need to be a negative thing everyone. Just do better next time.

[Nolder]

I do enjoy the case on me though, it was very enlightening.  Are you willing to die tomorrow if wrong?

I am baffled that you haven't been hammered yet. Truly. 

Daring someone to gamble their life for yours in a bid for sympathy?

How are you actually expecting these ploys to work man? They're not exactly subtle.

[michellem]

Yes my activity in my game has been low. To be honest it's (basically) my first time with a role like this, and I was afraid to draw heat too early and be forced to expose myself before I wanted to. Especially since both Darthe and Red has a tendency of being on my tail :P And then that evolved into "yeah well I'm doc so I'm safe anyway" and it made me pay less attention. I have been playing this game far from my best; quite bad in fact. Wich is why I'm trying to make up for it now by doing a reread and taking notes as I go. Two pages in on D1 and already got some interesting stuff I can't believe I have forgotten.

 

Speaking of: For all FF-users that also take notes during mafia games: There's an add-on called QuickNotes that give you a sidebar where you can write notes while browsing. BRILLIANT. I know I hated to jump back and forth between FF and TextEdit.

[peacesells]

MOD NOTE:

 

All statements made in thread are considered game play.  If you wish to discuss something that is not to be considered game play then start a separate thread on the issue.

 

Carry on.

[Darthe]

 

I do enjoy the case on me though, it was very enlightening.  Are you willing to die tomorrow if wrong?

I am baffled that you haven't been hammered yet. Truly. 

Daring someone to gamble their life for yours in a bid for sympathy?

How are you actually expecting these ploys to work man? They're not exactly subtle.

 

Not sympathy, not a ploy or even much of a play.  I fully anticipate tress to say yes and if she can't then that is telling.  I care little for my own life Nol, though your blind stupidity has become grating I do not even hold it against you because I recognize that playing off the cuff was a cruddy early game strategy for me, or lack thereof.  However, I anticipate a strong push for you due to your direct actions in getting two townies lynched and vocal nature, thus I want to avoid that issue and.. conceivably lynch scum.

 

I still feel right about hallia, but I suppose it could be WBK though I have a light town read on him.  Time will tell.

[Songstress]

Why should I volunteer to be lynched if I'm wrong about you, Darthe? If the rest of the town thinks I'm mafia, they'll do it whether I volunteer or don't, and then they would be wrong about me. That's a good way for the mafia to win, frankly, and setting it up as an expectation is manipulative.

[Darthe]

So, I am guessing that is a no?

[WolfbrotherKronos]

I don't understand the logic in asking for Tress to volunteer for a lynch?

[Darthe]

Oh it isn't logic, just info.  

 

Here is your reasoning:

 

 If tress is willing to be next:

 

Signifies a level of certainty that I am mafia great enough to believe that her death is worth it.  Since we will be at Lylo this would be the scum statement indicating intent to get through the next day.  

 

If she is not:

 

Open ended.  

 

Basically if she is town self preservation would have won out there or she could be scum aware of that type of logical fault.  However, her approach to it did not suggest such.  That helps narrow things down a bit as it got more content from her.  

 

Thats all.

[michellem]

Ok I'm done with day 2 on my re-read, page 12, and I'll post more in-depth when I'm done, but right now... Everyone looks really bad But especially Kronos, Cloud and Tress. Hallia is either or; I have a feeling that if she was scum, she would be pushed to post a bit more by her partner(s). Unless her partner is one of the earlier mentioned 3, wich are two others with general low activity and one that's still quite new, and has only been mafia together with more experienced players.

 

But yeah, I'll be back with even more in five pages :P

[Songstress]

Oh it isn't logic, just info.  

 

Here is your reasoning:

 

 If tress is willing to be next:

 

Signifies a level of certainty that I am mafia great enough to believe that her death is worth it.  Since we will be at Lylo this would be the scum statement indicating intent to get through the next day.  

 

If she is not:

 

Open ended.  

 

Basically if she is town self preservation would have won out there or she could be scum aware of that type of logical fault.  However, her approach to it did not suggest such.  That helps narrow things down a bit as it got more content from her.  

 

Thats all.

 

Seriously Darthe?  That statement makes absolutely zero sense.  If I'd said I was certain enough to volunteer to be lynched, you would have said that I was clearly mafia, and if I'd said of course not, I was more likely town because self-preservation would have won out?

 

No matter what I'd said, you would have tried to paint it as serving your aims.  Your manipulation is obvious, and it's not scum hunting.

[Darthe]

Interesting.  I haven't much interest in arguing my own statements, intentions, or meanings with you or Nolder because your opinion is formed before I speak.  I do find it interesting how you have popped up all of a sudden.  I appreciate it, but am curious as to why their is so sudden a change.

[michellem]

Ok, my reads. Let's start from the town shall we?

 

Darthe: I am pretty sure by this point that he is town. Either that, or playing the best game as scum ever. But even though he's a great player, he hasn't been on top of his game in this game, and so he lands on the townie-side on the fence for me. Has voted and beeen voted by almost everyone in the game (expect me oddly enough; Darthe you're always hard on me! :P ) No, exact count: He's voted Hallia, Red, Nol, voted by Cloud, Nol, Kronos, Cloud, Nol, Hallia, Nol, Hallia, Nol, Hallia, and Tress. I think mafia has been happily sitting back letting Darthe take a lot of heat and stirring things up so they don't have to.

 

Nol: I honestly have no idea. But logic is starting to say town. Has voted Darthe and Tress, been voted by Cloud, Tress, Darthe.

 

Kronos: Unsure; not enough activity, has been playing it safe, and borderlining on fencesitting. Alot of his arguments are parroting of others opinions. Not a tell in itself; people can observe the same things. But it still belongs in the big picture. Has voted Hallia (jokevote), Darthe, Nol, Red.

 

Tress: Not enough posts to get much of a read any way. Goes against Nol and Red D1 and D2. On D3 now she is sure Ddarthe is scum, suddenly Nol is town, K pings a bit, doesn't have a read on Cloud. Hasn't been much active or posted much original thoughts before the argument with Nol now about activity. Did not vote at all on D1, got voted by Nol. Voted Nol D2, Darthe D3.

 

Hallia: Feels very iffy to me. Almost all her posts have been either fluff, or mock outrage and shock over votes at her. See some quotes further down. Been after Darthe several times. The people she's pointed fingers at are Cloud, Darthe, Kronos. Tried to link me and Kronos. She started off by joke voting Kronos, but after that she's been voting Darthe, Nol, Darthe and Darthe. She's been voted by Darthe and Cloud.

 

Cloud: Has had some very suspect play. He thought on D1 it was ok to lynch the newbie. Has been pointing fingers at everyone but me and Tress. Has voted me (jokevote), Darthe, Red, Nol, Darthe, Red, Red, Hallia. Been voted by me (jokevote), and otherwise no-one despite odd play (it might have been a vote by Red; I'm not sure I got all the votes written down). He was quick on the no-lynch, and first at Reds train.

 

 

This is a very hard game to get readings in; it's been a very odd balance in interactions and stuff. I might have missed some votes in my re-read/recap, so don't take those for 100%. But I'm 99% certain that there is scum in either Tress, Hallia or Cloud.

 

 

 

The people that voted for Red's death would be the most suspicious, with Red saying herself that she believed Cloud to be the scummiest.  Maybe he's worth taking a look at?

I am wounded!  You were one of those on Red's train, and with her turning out to be town, I'd say the choice of those lynched today should be between you or Darthe.

 

Vote Darthe.

Between you or Cloud that is. XD

^-setting up for lynches

 

Hallia, on 23 Jan 2013 - 05:26, said:

    *nodnod* Correct, but in this game he first targeted me because I was a newb, then for different reasons, but it's come up time and time again, makes me suspicious.

And you keep coming back again and again, so you're really not much better and have no right to point fingers over that.

 

Other gems include:

#265

 

"Well, since I am certain that I'm not scummy and you're targeting me, that must mean you're scum!"

 

 

 

 

 

At least one of them is experienced enough to get how to play up the controversy between me, Nol, and Red. 

 

>Oh, I forgot to mention.  Vote Hallia.<

/span>

 

This doesn't really jive. It feels like you're angling for my sympathy by calling me town now but you're still going after Hallia. Seemingly in contradiction with what you just said.

 

I know that an experienced player is the other mafia member.  I am leaning Tress because of the incredibly lurkish game she has played but the player that I am most certain of is Hally.  I have some reasons for it as well.

 

Orange: Darthe, I would really like to hear those reasons.

 

 

 

But all in all, I feel confident in vote Hallia, and next day it's time to take a long look at Cloud and Tress I think.

[Darthe]

so me and Hal are at L-1?

[michellem]

Darthe, I asked you a direct question!

[_CLOUD]

Yup. My quick summary is that Darthe, Mish (doc) and Nolder are town. Everyone cased Darthe and I was really suspicious of him during Day 1, but after time passed I became more sure that he is in fact Town. The same can be said for Nolder who kept bringing up the argument of inactivity. That only leaves Tress, Hallia and Kronos. In my opinion Kronos slipped up a few times, but those mistakes remained minor. I have no read on Tress. I think that Hallia is scum. Finally I think that Tress and Hallia are the mafia team we are looking for. Tress did a good job remaining under everyone's radar, but the same can't be said for Hallia. 

[_CLOUD]

Sorry for my inactivity btw, I had killing headaches today and am now only feeling better.. what a relief haha. 

[michellem]

Aw poor thing, headaches are horrible <.< *weaves healing and places it on Cloud to take away his flu*

[Darthe]

Yeah, I will get on that in about 10.

[Hallia]

Yup. My quick summary is that Darthe, Mish (doc) and Nolder are town. Everyone cased Darthe and I was really suspicious of him during Day 1, but after time passed I became more sure that he is in fact Town. The same can be said for Nolder who kept bringing up the argument of inactivity. That only leaves Tress, Hallia and Kronos. In my opinion Kronos slipped up a few times, but those mistakes remained minor. I have no read on Tress. I think that Hallia is scum. Finally I think that Tress and Hallia are the mafia team we are looking for. Tress did a good job remaining under everyone's radar, but the same can't be said for Hallia. 

 

I'm not trying to remain under the radar because I'm not scum.  I know I haven't posted a lot of informative posts, but I feel like I've been getting better.  At least, I am feeling more confident about posting.  Despite him voting for my lynching, I agree that Darthe, Nol, and Mish are town.  I was leaning towards Tress to be scum, but with her last post, I'm not sure.

 

 

 

Oh it isn't logic, just info.  

 

Here is your reasoning:

 

 If tress is willing to be next:

 

Signifies a level of certainty that I am mafia great enough to believe that her death is worth it.  Since we will be at Lylo this would be the scum statement indicating intent to get through the next day.  

 

If she is not:

 

Open ended.  

 

Basically if she is town self preservation would have won out there or she could be scum aware of that type of logical fault.  However, her approach to it did not suggest such.  That helps narrow things down a bit as it got more content from her.  

 

Thats all.

 

Seriously Darthe?  That statement makes absolutely zero sense.  If I'd said I was certain enough to volunteer to be lynched, you would have said that I was clearly mafia, and if I'd said of course not, I was more likely town because self-preservation would have won out?

 

No matter what I'd said, you would have tried to paint it as serving your aims.  Your manipulation is obvious, and it's not scum hunting.

I do agree that the way Darthe worded his argument left her feeling "Danged if I do, danged if I don't."  I don't think I'd get that feeling from her if she were mafia.

 

That leaves Kronos and Cloud as scum, in my opinion.

 

 

Yup. My quick summary is that Darthe, Mish (doc) and Nolder are town. Everyone cased Darthe and I was really suspicious of him during Day 1, but after time passed I became more sure that he is in fact Town. The same can be said for Nolder who kept bringing up the argument of inactivity. That only leaves Tress, Hallia and Kronos. In my opinion Kronos slipped up a few times, but those mistakes remained minor. I have no read on Tress. I think that Hallia is scum. Finally I think that Tress and Hallia are the mafia team we are looking for. Tress did a good job remaining under everyone's radar, but the same can't be said for Hallia. 

Note his defense of Kronos.