Discuss Verin (Full Spoilers)

[MarkDiLillo]

Alanna leaving was implied to be by her own free will.  Both because the circumstances appeared to be that she had just opened Verin's letter and because Rand was not alerted at all and just casually mentioned that she was up in the north.  If she had been abducted it is very likely he would have known through the bond that she was under distress.

 

It's a shame we will never know what really was meant to happen.  Thanks Brandon.

[LewsTherin10]

I guess Alanna could have been a BA and that one of the forsaken did pick her up.   The bond is released and created through weaves, you think Moridin would leave her unshielded if she wasn't BA?

 

If she was Black, how come Vering didn't warn Egwene?  She would have been on the list Verin compiled?  And I highly doubt that Verin wouldn't have know she was Black considering they traveled together for a long time.  Unless...Verin's letter to Rand revealed Alanna to be Black and that she would be used against him.  Perhaps that's why he wasn't worried that's she was gone and could be used to find his location? 

 

I'm just tossing theories around.  Any responses?

[CanUFeelTheLove?]

 

I guess Alanna could have been a BA and that one of the forsaken did pick her up.   The bond is released and created through weaves, you think Moridin would leave her unshielded if she wasn't BA?

 

If she was Black, how come Vering didn't warn Egwene?  She would have been on the list Verin compiled?  And I highly doubt that Verin wouldn't have know she was Black considering they traveled together for a long time.  Unless...Verin's letter to Rand revealed Alanna to be Black and that she would be used against him.  Perhaps that's why he wasn't worried that's she was gone and could be used to find his location? 

 

I'm just tossing theories around.  Any responses?

 

I had a hard time believing that Verin was Black Ajah. I just thought she was another pushy AS. I would have like to have known if she was tricked, kidnapped, or went on her own from Rand. It was a lot of build up throughout the books for her to end up saying, "no worries, I'll just release him from the bond." But, that's ok with me. It is somewhat annoying that I'll probably never know if she left on her own or not, though.

[megalomax]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alanna was not entirely ignored, but her plot was a massive cliffhanger in the last book (devised by Brandon himself) and a running story arc. Her ending was just really poorly done. Just a "Oh hey...Alanna's hear and she's dying." We never find out if she was a darkfriend, we dont know if she was kidnapped out of the Stone or if she left to go elsewhere first, and we dont know anything else about her. She was setup as a key piece to the last book and instead we got her just dropped in and dying at the very last second. It was very poorly done.

 

What were Lanfear's wishes if they were pretty explicit? I must have missed this part.

 

Verin's letters were consequential because they were shown to be an important part of her final plot. RJ and Brandon went out of their way to show that she sent other letters to other people. It was a cliffhanger. They were never mentioned again after ToM. For all we know, her one letter to Rand may have been key to the whole body swap and Callandor. We have no clue.

 

There is a lot that can be left open that feels done well, and then there are important plot points that are forgotten or wrapped up very hastily and that is just sloppy writing. An example of an open ended world or plot that is intentionally left open is the ending with Rand and his women. And the entire Seanchan storyline.

I seems obvious to me that she was abducted. I'm a little fuzzy but didn't it say that Cadsuane and the others thought Alanna left immediately but they didn't feel anything (like a gateway). Seems pretty plausible that Moridin or one of his male channeler lackeys could have scooped her up pretty easily. It was a cliffhanger and it did pay off for me. She was abducted by Moridin to be used against Rand at the very end....

 

re: Lanfear -- looks like she wanted to be the one to step in at the last second and save the day for the Shadow. I think those thoughts are Perrin's but they seem be a very good guess based on what we know of her. After Rand "revealed his soul" or whatever, there wasn't much left for her...

 

Just because Brandon and RJ show that Verin sent out a lot of letters, doesn't mean they all had to be key plot points. Maybe they were, but I don't see how Brandon (and RJ) could have shown us everything, even if they wished to.

 

There are things I want to know also, but there is no good way to resolve every single plot point.

I'm still inclined to think that Alanna was a Darkfriend who got in way over her head. Her interest in the boys from tDR forward was just too out of place, and her other actions just don't make a whole lot of sense otherwise.

 

Lanfear wanted out from under Moridin's thumb. She must have had some inkling of what Moridin expected to happen at Shayol Ghul, and used that information to her advantage. Once Rand and Moridin were distracted, she could move in for the kill.

I thought Min had a viewing that Rand could trust Alanna? That seems to imply that she wasn't a DF.

 

As for what was in her letter, I like that it's left up to speculation. I think it was Verin warning her that Darkfriends were going to try to kidnap her to use against Rand.

or maybe warning her not to pass the warder bond for whatever reason unroll the time was right. Some of the AS that tried to force her were Black like Moria and Sheriam

[Sabio]

 

 

I guess Alanna could have been a BA and that one of the forsaken did pick her up.   The bond is released and created through weaves, you think Moridin would leave her unshielded if she wasn't BA?

 

If she was Black, how come Vering didn't warn Egwene?  She would have been on the list Verin compiled?  And I highly doubt that Verin wouldn't have know she was Black considering they traveled together for a long time.  Unless...Verin's letter to Rand revealed Alanna to be Black and that she would be used against him.  Perhaps that's why he wasn't worried that's she was gone and could be used to find his location? 

 

I'm just tossing theories around.  Any responses?

 

I had a hard time believing that Verin was Black Ajah. I just thought she was another pushy AS. I would have like to have known if she was tricked, kidnapped, or went on her own from Rand. It was a lot of build up throughout the books for her to end up saying, "no worries, I'll just release him from the bond." But, that's ok with me. It is somewhat annoying that I'll probably never know if she left on her own or not, though.

Verin was never a black at heart, I think from her POV she was given choice to join or not and if you say no you die.  She said somehting about it never made sense the forces of light didn't have someone on the inside of the BA.  So it was for survival and the whole time she was spying on them, and couldn't betray them until the hour of her death (or something like that).  Yes she had to do some bad things as a BA, but I don't think she ever truely wanted to a BA.

[ROB_88]

i have this idea. it seemed logical when i thought about it late at night, but now i'm not so sure.

 

the idea is that Verin in all her knowledge and splendor, realized that Rand would probably survive (granted that he actually win)

that would mean that Alanna would be able to track him, and she would use it. maybe not for evil, but it would be an annoyance to Rand when he just wanna live his life.

 

so through the letter, Verin made sure that she got on a road to her eventual demise in order to free Rand from his fourth Warder bond.

 

it's either that or just "kidnapped, lol"

[Edsel]

I had a theory that Verin knew there would be an attempt to weaken Rand by killing one bonded to him.  I adore Verin, but one must admit she's not above a certain amount of darkness if it strengthens the greater good... I mean she was willing to poison Cadsuane and allow Mat to die if the White Tower thought it would be better to tie someone else to the Horn.  I think she wrote something that would move Alanna in a position to be captured by the Shadow...offered her up as a sacrificial lamb if you will.   I'm almost certain she'd be able to surmise that Rand had muffled his bond with Alanna in favor of his bond with his "brides"...and if one was to die, better it be one that he loathed instead of one that he loved.... also, if she wasn't a Darkfriend, Verin knew she was Green...and could count on her releasing the bond in a Green's last defiance of the Shadow if possible.  This theory doesn't require Alanna to be a darkfriend, and does allow the possibility that Verin hinted that Alanna might one day need to release her bond to Rand for the greater good.  I'm not sure Rand would have gone through the warder rage for Alanna, anyway.  Not like he would have for M, A or E.  

[esvath]

I had a theory that Verin knew there would be an attempt to weaken Rand by killing one bonded to him.  I adore Verin, but one must admit she's not above a certain amount of darkness if it strengthens the greater good... I mean she was willing to poison Cadsuane and allow Mat to die if the White Tower thought it would be better to tie someone else to the Horn.  I think she wrote something that would move Alanna in a position to be captured by the Shadow...offered her up as a sacrificial lamb if you will.   I'm almost certain she'd be able to surmise that Rand had muffled his bond with Alanna in favor of his bond with his "brides"...and if one was to die, better it be one that he loathed instead of one that he loved.... also, if she wasn't a Darkfriend, Verin knew she was Green...and could count on her releasing the bond in a Green's last defiance of the Shadow if possible.  This theory doesn't require Alanna to be a darkfriend, and does allow the possibility that Verin hinted that Alanna might one day need to release her bond to Rand for the greater good.  I'm not sure Rand would have gone through the warder rage for Alanna, anyway.  Not like he would have for M, A or E.  

Oh, I like this idea. Verin set Alanna up as the sacrificial lamb for the Light!

 

I don't think Alanna's bond to Rand was a well-known fact in Randland, right? Only a few know about this.

[blazetheearth]

Just noticed something about the timeline for Verin in tSR. She was in the TR before Fain/Ordieth killed Perrin's family. The thought occurred to me that possibly her letter to Galad may have included a letter to be passed along to Bornhald or possibly informing Galad of events there causing him to speak to Bornhald, which led up to Bornhald's admission to it to Perrin. Yeah, I know it's out there and "why not just send a letter to Perrin?" and all that, but it was just a thought I figured I'd add.

[SueDeNym]

Just noticed something about the timeline for Verin in tSR. She was in the TR before Fain/Ordieth killed Perrin's family. The thought occurred to me that possibly her letter to Galad may have included a letter to be passed along to Bornhald or possibly informing Galad of events there causing him to speak to Bornhald, which led up to Bornhald's admission to it to Perrin. Yeah, I know it's out there and "why not just send a letter to Perrin?" and all that, but it was just a thought I figured I'd add.

I've always thought that this was the most likely scenario.  I mean, what else could there possibly be that she needed to communicate to Galad?  Galad who she has never had any interaction with that we can see.  Galad who is head of what remains of The Children.

 

Perrin and Galad needed to work together for the Light side to have a greater chance of success and I could see Verin using this twisy-turney method as it suits her typical MO.

 

Also, had she communicated the news directly to Perrin, it's  not as if Bornhald would have even believed anything he said.   The ONLY way Bornhald was going to believe that Perrin had nothing to do with murdering his own family (or that his whole family was shadow spawn) was to hear it come directly from Galad (who had no idea Verin was BA and could even possibly lie-- although I'm convinced in this matter at least, she was being completely truthful)

 

All in all, it was a brilliant move and until I hear evidence to the contrary, I'm convinced this is what was in Verin's letter to Galad.