Moiraine's Arc (Full Spoilers)

[Celebel]

Re: re-tainting of saidin, I am not sure why Sanderson even brought this up, because both Rand and Egwene knew that Nynaeve would go with Rand and that _both_ halves of OP would be used. So, Egwene was actually accepting the tainting of saidar as well and Rand's outburst made him look like a fool/tool.

 

What Rand "felt was right" was actually in part wrong, so...

 

The whole thing with the Seals was overladen - them being stolen robbed the argument of it's significance. I understand that another side-plot had to be tied up and it does finally explain why Taim gave Rand a Seal in the first place, but...

 

Re: Rand not going to sort out the BT, I actually disagree with this. With his psychological issues largely resolved, he could have gone there with lots of Wise Ones and Asha'man who were outside the BT supporting them. A lot of decent people were turned to the Shadow and the BT was paralyzed at a critical time as a result.

Also, if the RJ had been less squemish, Taim would have kidnapped families of non-turned good Asha'man and blackmailed them into causing damage to the Light.

Sanderson tried to justify all this by drastically reducing WO and BT numbers, but still...

 

And yea, we should have seen Moiraine working to convince all these people. And maybe her and Thom's wedding as a pretext to assemble Our Heroes one last time and a sign that she did change and recognizes that one needs to live what one is fighting for? What was the point of all those off-screen marriages anyway?

 

 

Also, I can't believe that Moiraine's 2 boons from the Finn and the fact of her reduced OP strength played no role whatsoever. Why even introduce stuff like that in the first place? I understand that RJ probably meant to do something with it, but didn't get to figure out what, but if the Team didn't intend to use it, they should have just left it out.

 

I also was kinda disappointed that Moiraine wasn't elected Amyrlin, mainly because Thom seems to be the perfect choice to handle diplomacy with Seanchan and because it would put kibosh on the utterly stupid OP strength hierarchy, which I expected to fall before the last battle..., but nope.

[Ace Sedai]

I wish Moiraine had more airtime.A page of what happened after being rescued then walking into the tent would have been nice.

At least a high five with Siuane as well.

[Elan Tedronai]

Not exactly sure what Moraine did.

 

Nothing would have happened if Rand had broken the seals.Either the seals were fake or real but if fake the shadow stole them very soon after and they did not break it when they could have any time.So obviously they did not want the seals broken at that time.

 

The whole meetig with Rand was not written well. After having read the book few more time,I would without doubt say AMOL is the second worst book of the series after CoT.Infact I would have put it the worst if not for things happenning in it compared to CoT

 

 

wow will wonders never cease. Me and Mr x agreeing!!

 

he then ruins it by saying egwene delibrately wanted the male half of the source to be tainted so the white tower reins supreme.

 

 

Mr x i suggest you read TGS and egwene's crowning as amyrlin and her conversation with silvana. Then ask me if you think that sounds like someone who is anti male channeller.

 

 

Better yet tell me how did logain albar escape from the clutches of sheriam and co in salidar?

 

You are a paradox Mr x. Maybe engineers are always like that

[nikios2099]

Also, I can't believe that Moiraine's 2 boons from the Finn and the fact of her reduced OP strength played no role whatsoever. Why even introduce stuff like that in the first place? I understand that RJ probably meant to do something with it, but didn't get to figure out what, but if the Team didn't intend to use it, they should have just left it out.

 

 

i don't remember exactly the timing but i think that the OP reduction was more for a little suspense around the identity of Lanfear/Cyndane than for Moiraine ...

[rane008]

On the topic of Tom: yeah, that whole composing schtick was shite, but even more questionable was why didn't any of the 4 or 5 disguised Black Ajah just kill him instead of waving?  I found this totally unbelieveable. 

[Agitel]

On the topic of Tom: yeah, that whole composing schtick was shite, but even more questionable was why didn't any of the 4 or 5 disguised Black Ajah just kill him instead of waving?  I found this totally unbelieveable. 

 

They may have worried about embracing the Source. It would have warned Rand of channelers just outside the mouth entering, and Nyn and Moir would have felt it.

 

The way I read the composing schtick (and I this is how I initially read it, not something I made up after to make me feel better about it) was that it was a way of easing Thom's nerves. He wasn't sitting up there as a cool and collected badass, he was doing it to keep his mind working instead of dwelling on what was happening inside and the battle below.

[Suttree]

 

On the topic of Tom: yeah, that whole composing schtick was shite, but even more questionable was why didn't any of the 4 or 5 disguised Black Ajah just kill him instead of waving?  I found this totally unbelieveable. 

 

They may have worried about embracing the Source. It would have warned Rand of channelers just outside the mouth entering, and Nyn and Moir would have felt it.

 

The way I read the composing schtick (and I this is how I initially read it, not something I made up after to make me feel better about it) was that it was a way of easing Thom's nerves.

Brandon broke the 4th wall with that one.

[XXX]

 

Not exactly sure what Moraine did.

 

Nothing would have happened if Rand had broken the seals.Either the seals were fake or real but if fake the shadow stole them very soon after and they did not break it when they could have any time.So obviously they did not want the seals broken at that time.

 

The whole meetig with Rand was not written well. After having read the book few more time,I would without doubt say AMOL is the second worst book of the series after CoT.Infact I would have put it the worst if not for things happenning in it compared to CoT

 

 

wow will wonders never cease. Me and Mr x agreeing!!

 

he then ruins it by saying egwene delibrately wanted the male half of the source to be tainted so the white tower reins supreme.

 

 

Mr x i suggest you read TGS and egwene's crowning as amyrlin and her conversation with silvana. Then ask me if you think that sounds like someone who is anti male channeller.

 

 

Better yet tell me how did logain albar escape from the clutches of sheriam and co in salidar?

 

You are a paradox Mr x. Maybe engineers are always like that

 

Not my fault that Egwene suffers from multiple personality disorder in the last few books ;)

 

You shd ask the authors that.I am just putting out what I intepret out there.

[cyribis]

I'm agree she should have been in the book more, but I think over all her arc was really good.  I honestly liked her telling of the prophecies.  The way she told them, for me, made them all easier to understand, gave them more meaning.  I have to admit that some of them I didn't quite understand until she recited them like she did.  I think that was very well done and enjoyed it very much.  I honestly would have cut out some of the POVs which I don't believe added anything to the story and put in some more hers and Nyn's.  So yeah, other than her lack of exposure in the book, I think her arc was awesome and very fitting.

+1  I'm with you here. I really enjoyed her arc and as such wish there had been more to it. But, that being said, it was awesome. Her entrance was one of the most anticipated for me - and honestly, I didn't feel it disappointed. A lot of posters are annoyed by her just popping up at a convenient time, reciting prophecy and then more or less fading into the background. I understand your dismay, but I didn't let that take away from how wonderful it was to have her 'right the ship' so to speak. She was necessary for many reasons, but most importantly to remind everyone - including Rand - of their duties. Her arriving just in time (she has a knack for that - loved that line) is sort of her thing. She arrived in Emonds Field just in time to get Rand & Co. out and on their path. She arrived in Tear just in time to balefire Bel'al. She arrived just in time at the docks in TFOH to save Rand from Lanfear. Her waltzing into that tent at the FoM was just one more time of her arriving just in time to save things from falling apart. She put Rand, Egwene and the rest in their place by quoting prophecy and reminding them of what's what. 

I wanted more of her POV - but, it is what it is. I'm absolutely sure she knows that Rand still lives, but she's played her part and probably wants to enjoy her time with Thom. She didn't need a Lan reunion because they'd already had their "goodbye" moment. All in all - loved it. 

[Vambram]

 

I'm agree she should have been in the book more, but I think over all her arc was really good.  I honestly liked her telling of the prophecies.  The way she told them, for me, made them all easier to understand, gave them more meaning.  I have to admit that some of them I didn't quite understand until she recited them like she did.  I think that was very well done and enjoyed it very much.  I honestly would have cut out some of the POVs which I don't believe added anything to the story and put in some more hers and Nyn's.  So yeah, other than her lack of exposure in the book, I think her arc was awesome and very fitting.

+1  I'm with you here. I really enjoyed her arc and as such wish there had been more to it. But, that being said, it was awesome. Her entrance was one of the most anticipated for me - and honestly, I didn't feel it disappointed. A lot of posters are annoyed by her just popping up at a convenient time, reciting prophecy and then more or less fading into the background. I understand your dismay, but I didn't let that take away from how wonderful it was to have her 'right the ship' so to speak. She was necessary for many reasons, but most importantly to remind everyone - including Rand - of their duties. Her arriving just in time (she has a knack for that - loved that line) is sort of her thing. She arrived in Emonds Field just in time to get Rand & Co. out and on their path. She arrived in Tear just in time to balefire Bel'al. She arrived just in time at the docks in TFOH to save Rand from Lanfear. Her waltzing into that tent at the FoM was just one more time of her arriving just in time to save things from falling apart. She put Rand, Egwene and the rest in their place by quoting prophecy and reminding them of what's what. 

I wanted more of her POV - but, it is what it is. I'm absolutely sure she knows that Rand still lives, but she's played her part and probably wants to enjoy her time with Thom. She didn't need a Lan reunion because they'd already had their "goodbye" moment. All in all - loved it. 

 

+1

[Waxwing23]

Why didn't they tell us what Moiraine's 2 gifts from the Finns were? They were basically thrown in our face at the end of ToM and then never mentioned again. If those gifts were mentioned in aMoL I would have forgiven all other problems with her arc. I was totally hung up on the fact that those two gifts would be critical for the LB and then never mentioned again. Just pissed me off. 

[Viperswhip]

Something the authors probably couldn't think up. We aren't told what she asked the Finns for because Moiraine is smart enough to have figured out some way to avoid being a snack for a couple of years.

[Whatagoon]

 

I really wanted to read more about moraine in this book, i was dissapointed that she wasnt in it more

 

Exactly and the reunion was totally flat for me.  We never even saw a reunion with Moiraine and Siuan or Lan.  Disappointing.

Agree. So much build up with how her death affected Rand and how she was necessary for victory. I understand having to fit in a lot in the last book but so much was devoted to her in the pervious books that more was needed. I at the very least had expected to have Min's point of view, showing the light & dark firefly like lights, conveying Rand's emotions through the bond, satisfaction that her viewing was correct. I really wanted much more.

[jjp]

One of the biggest letdowns was Moiraine's lack of everything. She literally served no purpose and didn't interact with Lan or Cadsuane, which I was waiting decades for.

 

It would have been better if she fell off a horse and snapped her neck in the beginning of the book.

[jjp]

I suppose it would have cut into Androl's screen time, now that I think about it.

[Vambram]

Actually, there was a very brief reunion between Moiraine and Lan before Rand went to Thakandar with Moiraine, Nynaeve, and the armies attacking the Shadow at Thakandar.

 

Also, Moiraine did indeed have a very important role in AMOL, and she fulfilled that role completely.

 

The book also says that Cadsuane and Moiraine seemed to be avoiding one another. This was pointed out in one of Rand's POV's.

[esvath]

Moiraine and Lan reunion was off-screen, which is disappointing, imho.

Moiraine and Siuan reunion was ... not exist? Another disappointing fact.

 

I don't think aMoL needed several chapters of Moiraine PoV, but just a little personalized on screen meetings with Siuan dan Lan are great. I love Moiraine's uncertainty when meeting Nynaeve at FoM, and then Nynaeve hugged her. This conveyed the emotions and tensions between those two. I just wish there were scenes like this with Moiraine/Lan and Moiraine/Siuan.

[jjp]

Actually, there was a very brief reunion between Moiraine and Lan before Rand went to Thakandar with Moiraine, Nynaeve, and the armies attacking the Shadow at Thakandar.

What happened in it?

 

Also, Moiraine did indeed have a very important role in AMOL, and she fulfilled that role completely.

Quoting the Karaehon Cycle? Linking with Rand and gritting her teeth with a determined expression? Please.

 

The book also says that Cadsuane and Moiraine seemed to be avoiding one another. This was pointed out in one of Rand's POV's.

I know, that was my point. Why did they avoid each other? No in-book reason, just very lazy writing. I think Brandon just didn't have an idea of how that would go down but knew it was anticipated and needed to be addressed, so we got this lip service.

 

I didn't even mention Moiraine and Siuan, who were heroes of an entire book together and were closer to each other than anyone else.

 

Complete waste of an incredibly dynamic and very much-loved character. I can cut Brandon a lot of slack but in this, and the FoM scene in particular, was a huge letdown that didn't need to be. The book did not get any benefit from Moiraine's presence.

[sleepinghour]

I know, that was my point. Why did they avoid each other? No in-book reason, just very lazy writing. I think Brandon just didn't have an idea of how that would go down but knew it was anticipated and needed to be addressed, so we got this lip service.

 

I agree. I think Brandon has a tendency to avoid the more complex characters and stick to the ones that are easiest for him to write. That's why Perrin constantly got POVs even though the Merrilor meeting would have been much more interesting from someone else's POV, and Brandon's own Asha'man Androl and Naeff suddenly replaced established characters like Flinn and Narishma. Brandon also has trouble writing conflicts without making one or both characters look bad—he already received a lot of criticism for the Cadsuane/Tam scene in TGS, and Egwene/Rand squabbled like children at Merrilor. It was mentioned in Rand's POV that Moiraine and Lan seemed distant, so RJ's notes may have specified that there would be some conflict between them. Far easier to skip over that scene and just include a passing mention of them acting distant.

[jjp]

Right, because even if it's in the notes, without actually giving motivations for these things it rings completely hollow.

 

Rand and Egwene's squabbling in front of the gathered leaders of the world on the eve of Tarmon Gai'don was embarrassing to read. I was waiting for them to stick their tongues out at each other.

[sleepinghour]

Right, because even if it's in the notes, without actually giving motivations for these things it rings completely hollow.

 

Rand and Egwene's squabbling in front of the gathered leaders of the world on the eve of Tarmon Gai'don was embarrassing to read. I was waiting for them to stick their tongues out at each other.

 

I think it makes sense that Lan would at least initially be angry at Moiraine. Moiraine let Lan believe she was dead for almost an entire year while Mat and Thom got a letter and were asked to rescue her. She also excluded Lan from that request. So from Lan's viewpoint, she didn't trust him with the truth or bother to include him in her rescue. I don't think Lan's anger is unreasonable since he suffered so much from Moiraine's "death," but it would be a difficult scene to write without making one or both look bad or seem out of character. So it probably was for the best that Brandon didn't attempt to write that conversation, as I'd rather not see it at all than a scene where they stomp their feet and call each other doodoo head, but it definitely should have been addressed in Lan's or Moiraine's POVs.

[jjp]

You're making up what you think Lan's feelings are in order to fill holes in the writing.

 

If what you are saying is true, it would have made for great reading.

[sleepinghour]

You're making up what you think Lan's feelings are in order to fill holes in the writing.

 

If what you are saying is true, it would have made for great reading.

 

It was just a guess, of course, but I think it's the only explanation that makes sense given what we know of their history and personalities. Considering how much of TEotW/TGH is repeated thematically in AMoL, it also makes sense that we get a repeat of Lan and Moiraine's argument in TGH. Especially as that argument was partly about Lan having advised Rand before his meeting with the Amyrlin ("Whatever comes, face it on your feet"), which is mentioned in the same AMoL scene with Rand, Lan, and Moiraine.

 

 

Lan nodded to him, then looked at Moiraine. “Have you two been arguing?”

Moiraine tucked the mark away, face becoming impassive. Rand didn’t know what to make of the interaction between the two of them since Moiraine’s return. They were civil, but there was a distance between them that he had not expected.

[...]

Lan knelt, then raised a bright, silvery crown—thin, yet strong. “The crown of Malkier,” he whispered. “This was lost!”

 “My smiths did what they could with old drawings,” Rand said. “The other is for Nynaeve; I think it will suit her. You have ever been a king, my friend. Elayne taught me to rule, but you ... you taught me how to stand.”

[jjp]

An interesting guess, we'll never know. Would have been fun to read about.

[NitroS]

Why was everyone expecting a confrontation between cadsuane and moiraine? it makes sense for them to avoid each other to me since they were both rands advisor and Rand wouldnt let them quarrel anyway. Both have reputations, i would have expected a cadsuane egwene confrontation before moiraine and cadsuane. Moiraine never confronted aes sedai at previous points in the books if you notice her at the palaces in NS, EOTW and other various places. Heck the only real main time we see her talking to Aes Sedai is Siuan and verin in TGH and the 2 brown sisters at that library.