Rand's Arc (Full Spoilers)

[Vambram]

Edrick and Kael;

 

Thank you for your answers which came from the thread of the Raleigh signing. In the quote provided, Brandon Sanderson said

 

The revision included the dueling of possibilities. That is where the Dark One became more involved and so it evolved into that, but we weren't following anything specific Jim had said.

 

Logic tells me that the revisions of the final confrontation between the Dark One and Rand probably also included other stuff besides what Sanderson is quoted to have said there. 

[jack of shadows]

@erdrick,

you've got to admit it's more fun to dissect rand's last battle with the dark one

instead of slaving over homework hahaha.

[jack of shadows]

@suttree,

it would be nice to read your opinion on the lan-rand "incident"(for lack of better term)

did rand really reshape the pattern to keep lan alive?

after the last battle,rand did manage to light his pipe using his mind,so does rand have

a certain degree of control over the pattern now?

damn,so many questions,so few answers lol.

[Suttree]

Well the pipe is one of those things that was purposely left open. That said he certainly seemed to gain new awareness/powers during that fight with the DO. This is clearly different from when he was using the tricks pretending to have extra powers post DM epiphany during ToM(and yes Entreri it has been confirmed by Brandon that they were just tricks and he had not become more than human at that point).

 

BWS: Yeah, there’s the cup, …

(unintelligible interruption)

The thing is, he wanted one no one knew he had. Because he’s Sneaky Rand and in Towers of Midnight, he’s doing sneaky stuff with all of his memories and things like this. It’s not all sneakiness, but one of the big things that made Team Jordan uncomfortable was Jesus Rand. I told them “It’s gonna work, because when you get to…” Harriet was like, “We can’t make him a deity. He can’t be a deity: he’s a person.” I’m like, “Don’t worry. When you read the last book, it will all come together, that he’s human.” But I really wanted people to be uncomfortable, because I remember reading book 3, and being very uncomfortable, because that’s the one after Rand became a murderer, where he leaves and kind of goes a little crazy for a while, on his way to Tear. And I’m like “Oh, no, I’ve lost Rand forever. My Rand is gone.” Right?

MK: Well, and then you lose him for like seven more books!

BWS: Right, but no, he comes back. By book four he’s back, main viewpoint character. And yeah, he’s grown and changed, but he’s still my Rand. I wanted to do that to you again. I wanted you to read book eleven and say, “Oh, no, I’ve lost Rand. He’s become Gandalf or something now. He’s Jesus Rand. And then I wanted to have you read the last book and be like “Oh, no, he is my Rand. He’s different, he’s grown, but he’s still Rand.” I was trying to parallel that; I hope that I achieved it. But that was the goal with Jesus Rand: you were supposed to be uncomfortable by that, and then you were supposed to learn that half of it was just tricks he was pulling, from knowing stuff in the Age of Legends.

In relation to Lan/Rand however I think Mr Ares said it well here:

 

There's nothing to suggest that Rand did anything. In fact, him doing so surely undermines the point of him having to let go. Undermines him saying that it was never about himself. The matically, the idea that Rand saved Lan is all wrong, it just doesn't fit. Lan was sorely wounded but he survived, and did so on his own, without divine intervention, because he is a man who will never give up, never surrender, not as long as he draws breath.

[jack of shadows]

@suttree,

ok,post viens of gold epiphany,rand has full access to lews therin memories

and from that point on,he is using his age of legends knowledge in a very clever way

to appear more powerful than he actually is,he is not on his way to a full godhood

but just a mere mortal with tons of memories and special abilities,either way works for me,

so how do you explain lord and lady torkumen in maradon?rand did not use any of his

new found tricks on them,in fact,one of bashere's men said that the couple couldn't have

seen rand's battle because none of the windows faced the right way.

[Suttree]

@suttree,

in fact,one of bashere's men said that the couple couldn't have

seen rand's battle because none of the windows faced the right way.

Hmm don't recall that. Quote?

[jack of shadows]

@suttree,

"what is he talking about?one of bashere's man said.

a light?surely he couldn't have seen the battle.none of these windows

face the right way."

[Suttree]

Thanks for that jack. Haven't read ToM nearly as much as the others. Would be a good question for Brandon although it does seem he left a bit of wiggle room above for things to be unexplained. Regardless it is clear he did actually reach a new awareness during the fight with the DO. I just don't think he applied it to saving Lan.

[Erdrick]

@erdrick,

you've got to admit it's more fun to dissect rand's last battle with the dark one

instead of slaving over homework hahaha.

lol...JoS, stop being a bad influence.

 

About post-epiphany Rand, he was definitely different. Suttree, look carefully at what BWS said in the quote you provided:

"then you were supposed to learn that half of it was just tricks he was pulling, from knowing stuff in the Age of Legends."

Notice that "half of it" were tricks, not all. Remember what Nynaeve saw in Rand's brain when she tried to heal his madness. That's definitely something new. Though I do agree with you about Lan surviving on his own. I don't think Rand altered anything in the real world during his battle with the DO.

[jack of shadows]

@suttree,

i have noticed that towers of midnight is your least favorite wheel of time book,

(saw your book rankings).

[Suttree]

About post-epiphany Rand, he was definitely different. Suttree, look carefully at what BWS said in the quote you provided:

"then you were supposed to learn that half of it was just tricks he was pulling, from knowing stuff in the Age of Legends."

 

Which is exactly why I said he left some "wiggle" room. Regardless the context is very clear, he did not become more than human and didn't gain super "Jesus Rand" powers. He is the DR, we have already seen him cause food to spoil and the world to be unhealthy due to his Fisher King connection with the land while growing dark(recall the dark aura around him). The opposite happens when he is in a sound state due to the epiphany. Pretty straight forward really.

[Erdrick]

@Suttree - That's a very good explanation. And thanks for reminding me about the dark aura too. Though that also supports the point jack of shadows made about darkfriends having trouble looking at post-epiphany Rand. I think that comes from his unique "one with the land" role (connected to both the dark aura occasionally seen by the good guys in TGS and the bright light occasionally seen by the bad guys in ToM). In other words, not just a trick he does with AoL knowledge.

[KakitaOCU]

So just touching on the point brought up of "If the Pattern balances, why bother doing good."

 

This is covered very well in the book itself, the CHOICE to do the right thing is what makes the right thing worth while and noble.  The deliberate decision to take an action that is not the easiest or in your best interest because it's what is "right" is the noble act, not the act itself.

 

L.E. Modesitt Jr's Colors of Chaos covers this very well near the end of the book.

 

Everything ends, every nation will eventually fall, every leader will pass away, every good deed will eventually be for nothing.  Every person will be forgotten, or corrupted so far by myth that they don't resemble the truth in any way.

 

This is why being good matters so much.  When the only potential difference, the only potential impact, is the choice itself and what you decide to do.  Then that choice becomes, in my opinion, infinately more important.

[jjp]

What the hell was the Light membrane thing surrounding Rand's brain? Did they ever explain that?

[jack of shadows]

@jjp,

those strands of light in rand's brain were probably a physical defence mechanisms,

a benign brain tumor if you like,to fight or at least contain the taint.

now,as to how and when did this mass of light turn out to be in rand's brain?well,that's a very

good question.

[jack of shadows]

@jjp,

i forgot to mention something in my earlier post regarding your question about

rand's strands of light in his brain.

i have always considered rand so called madness from the taint and his own personal

demons as two very different issues.

in his conversation with egwene rand said:"it seems that from the very moment moiraine

came to the two rivers,i've been struggling to avoid aes sedai strings of control.and yet,i

allowed other strings-more dangerous strings-to wrap around me unseen."

in my opinion,rand personal battle against being controlled by aes sedai,rulers or advisers

and his aspirations to assert his own independence and relevance(justified as they were)

were far more destructive than the taint ever was(probably because of the light grid in his brain).

no matter how i  analyse the sequence of events that led to the dragonmount epiphany,i always

return to one single incident:rand's brutal kidnapping from cairhien.

so if anything,blame sould be speard evenly.

[Entreri]

Callandor/Excalibur proved to be the trumph card.

 

How could AS create a sa'angreal to access the TP?

 

How can Callandor survive the True Power balefire from Ishamael in book2? TP destroys cuendillar. In Rand PoV, the Light of Callandor outshined the balefire stream...

 

How could Rand with Callandor Rand wield more of saidin than at the Cleansing or ever...when he was about the destroy the world in 1 blow (Logain PoV AMOL). Sure it has no buffer, still..And wield at least as much TP from Moridin.

 

In the end, One Sword to Rule Them All. 

[Darki'n]

How can Callandor survive the True Power balefire from Ishamael in book2? TP destroys cuendillar. In Rand PoV, the Light of Callandor outshined the balefire stream...

 

Well, that battle happened in Tel'aran'rhiod. Maybe it had something to do with it? Perrin could stop balefire, so maybe Callandor can too, while in Dream World?

[Agitel]

 

How can Callandor survive the True Power balefire from Ishamael in book2? TP destroys cuendillar. In Rand PoV, the Light of Callandor outshined the balefire stream...

 

Well, that battle happened in Tel'aran'rhiod. Maybe it had something to do with it? Perrin could stop balefire, so maybe Callandor can too, while in Dream World?

 

I'd say it was Rand, not Callandor. Rand probably, out of rage or Callandor-fueled madness, believed that Callandor would part the balefire, and so it did.

[Bluedust9]

The Pattern is neutral, it doesn't see "good" or "evil". I think equating it to Order and Chaos is better to understand. Chaos makes the Pattern weaker, Order makes it stronger. It tries to balance the two.

 

A person's death isn't evil in the Pattern's eyes, it may have been necessary in the long run to restore a bit of Order to things.

[jack of shadows]

"why was rand to need a weapon with such flaws?why did the prophecies mention it so?

a sa'angreal for the true power.why would he ever need such a thing?

the answer was so simple."

the answer was so simple to rand maybe,but not to me,can anyone explain to me why aes

sedai did create a sa'angreal for the true power in the first place?

we already knew since the path of daggers that callandor was accidently made without a safety buffer

that prevents the user from drawing too much power and therefor killing himself.so was the sword that is

not a sword  deliberatly created to draw true power or was it another and completely different

flaw?

cadsuane also said to rand that callandor magnifies the taint ,was she wrong?or was her knowledge

about the true nature of the sa'angreal's flaws incomplete?

[Suttree]

"why was rand to need a weapon with such flaws?why did the prophecies mention it so?

a sa'angreal for the true power.why would he ever need such a thing?

the answer was so simple."

the answer was so simple to rand maybe,but not to me,can anyone explain to me why aes

sedai did create a sa'angreal for the true power in the first place?

we already knew since the path of daggers that callandor was accidently made without a buffer

to prevent the user from drawing too much power and therefor killing himself,so the sword that is

not a sword was deliberatly created to draw true power or was it another and completely different

flaw?

cadsuane also said to rand that callandor magnifies the taint ,was she wrong?and her knowledge

about the true nature of the sa'angreal incomplete?

 Cadsuane's info was most likely incomplete. Also RJ has confirmed it was merely a manufacturing flaw. It was not done on purpose.

[Igorl]

And for the pipe, I think Rand really needed a smoke so the Creator hooked him up, seeing as how he saved all of creation and all that.

 

I just started on this thread last week but didnt have much time to get through it. But let me tell you this made my day. "...the Creater hooked him up..." roflol... and I got to say at this point its about as reasonable as the other theories as we dont have anything concrete to go off.. and why shouldnt the Creater "hook him up" after everything Rand did.. lol

[Agitel]

If we want to be technical, RJ specifically referred to the lack of a ward/buffer as the manufacturing flaw. To my knowledge, he didn't comment on the taint being magnified and heightened eccentricity that happened with Callandor.

 

Brandon's explanation is that it's purpose as a TP sa'angreal was intentional, and that it was intended to be a trap for male Forsaken.

[Wheel of Thyme]

If we want to be technical, RJ specifically referred to the lack of a ward/buffer as the manufacturing flaw. To my knowledge, he didn't comment on the taint being magnified and heightened eccentricity that happened with Callandor.

 

Brandon's explanation is that it's purpose as a TP sa'angreal was intentional, and that it was intended to be a trap for male Forsaken.

That makes little sense. To make a sa'angreal, one has to access the True Power if the thing magnifies it; see Rand's explanation to Elayne when he gave her the Seed to make angreals. Someone can not access the True Power unless they are given permission to do so from the Dark One, apparently (but then how was it ever tapped into by Mierien when she broke through the seals of the previous age)? Would the Dark One grant permission to one of his followers to use the True Power to trap male Forsakens? That would be illogical; the Dark One would be helping to reduce his own power and influence.

 

Yes, Forsaken scheme amongst each other, and Verin and other Black Ajah members seem to imply such backbiting is fine, as the Dark One wants the cream of the crop of evil and selfishness...but creating a trap seems something the Lightside designed to trap the Darkside. Unless one female or male forsaken wanted to overpower and control another male? But the word "trap"

seems to imply it was to the Dark Ones detriment, not to further his aims of winnowing out the weak.