The Ashaman and Cadsuane

[NitroS]

"It's Cadsuane. She is going to teach you something, you and the Asha'man. All the Asha'man, I mean. It's something you have to learn, but I don't know what it is, except that none of you will like learning it from her. You aren't going to like it at all."

 

Just random thoughts before aMOL do you think this learning applies to all the darkfriend Asha'man as well and those that have been 13x13? It doesnt say only light sided Asha'man need to learn this, but if thats the case it seems like it has nothing to do with the last battle or manners since dark friend Asha'man would learn it to?

[MasterAblar]

"It's Cadsuane. She is going to teach you something, you and the Asha'man. All the Asha'man, I mean. It's something you have to learn, but I don't know what it is, except that none of you will like learning it from her. You aren't going to like it at all."

 

Just random thoughts before aMOL do you think this learning applies to all the darkfriend Asha'man as well and those that have been 13x13? It doesnt say only light sided Asha'man need to learn this, but if thats the case it seems like it has nothing to do with the last battle or manners since dark friend Asha'man would learn it to?

Darkfriend Asha'man aren't really Asha'man, the definition of which is, according to Rand:

 

"It means guardian, or guardians. Or defender, and maybe a couple other things too; I told you, the old tongue is very flexible. Guardian seems to be best, though. Not just any defender or guardian, though. You could not call a man who defended an unjust cause an asha'man, and never one that was evil. An asha'man was a man who defended truth and justice and right for everyone. A guardian who would not yield even when hope was gone."

 

The darkfriends are just posing as such. Same as the Black Ajah Aes Sedai. So, no, I don't think the viewing applies to them.

[gregweum]

I have always thought that it was some sort of lesson in humility. 

 

The asha'man seem to have an arrogance to them, and Cadsuane has been able to defeat male channlers single-handedly.  Additionally, I feel like it's got something to do with learning to use power more subtlely rather than relying on brute force.  In some ways I think she is going to teach them the same lessons she learned from the wilder Norla -- what must be endured can be endured.

 

There is no basis for this other than her success bringing down male channelers, but I think she has some way to make herself invulnerable to weaves of saidin.  It's been hinted that the paralis net has more functions than we know of so far, and iirc it was created during the breaking when it would have been important to have such a defense.  Following that line of logic, I think she will be the key to victory over Taim in the Black Tower.  I think she may somehow incapacitate all the Asha'man giving the Lightsiders a chance to un-13x13 the baddies.

[Amandera]

First of course, she needs to be taught humility as well. Cads is fabuluous and she knows it.

 

My money is on she is going to teach Asha'man that they need to work together with Aes Sedai. Dunno who's going to teach Aes Sedai they need to work with Asha'man though.

[gregweum]

First of course, she needs to be taught humility as well. Cads is fabuluous and she knows it.  My money is on she is going to teach Asha'man that they need to work together with Aes Sedai. Dunno who's going to teach Aes Sedai they need to work with Asha'man though.

 

Aren't Androl and Pevara already figuring the working together thing out?

 

Cadsuane has had to be humble quite a bit in the books, actually.  She has a high opinion of herself to be sure, but the vast majority of the characters in the books do.  She's talked about being bested by a wilder and she has hidden from Rand when he told her he'd kill her if he saw her -- and let's not mention the whole male a'dam business.  She came in as a lion and has gone out as a lamb, but I believe she will return as a lion.  I don't see her as being a mediator to an aes sedai/asha'man alliance.

[Selene's Shadow]

I do not think it will be something which she will teach the Ashaman as a whole such as less arrogance, it is not like she will be preaching to them or anything. I think it will be something she does through her actions which will demonstrate it to them, something which will have an everlasting effect on them. Very possibly in conjunction with her death.

 

She has already assisted in teaching Rand to embrace himself and all that, but what else can she teach him, nevermind the Ashaman he also needs to be taught. Seeing how Rand seems to be good Rand atm he does not seem to be putting a foot wrong and seems to be relatively perfect (some stuff like at the harbour maybe could be wiped out) so how could he improve along with the Ashaman? Unless she has already taught it to him.

[Selene's Shadow]

 

First of course, she needs to be taught humility as well. Cads is fabuluous and she knows it.  My money is on she is going to teach Asha'man that they need to work together with Aes Sedai. Dunno who's going to teach Aes Sedai they need to work with Asha'man though.

 

Aren't Androl and Pevara already figuring the working together thing out?

 

Cadsuane has had to be humble quite a bit in the books, actually.  She has a high opinion of herself to be sure, but the vast majority of the characters in the books do.  She's talked about being bested by a wilder and she has hidden from Rand when he told her he'd kill her if he saw her -- and let's not mention the whole male a'dam business.  She came in as a lion and has gone out as a lamb, but I believe she will return as a lion.  I don't see her as being a mediator to an aes sedai/asha'man alliance.

I do not know why that would be a focus though when the main theme throughout the series has been the Aes Sedai arrogance rather than the Ashaman arrogance. And anyway I do not get the feeling that Rand is currently arrogant now.

[Balefire to da face!]

For the longest time I assumed this was some sort of symbolic or figurative teaching. As others have said, the arrogance thing. And I always associated it closely with the laughter and tears she taught Rand in particular.

 

With the way things are shaping up in the BT, though. And Rand finally acknowledging that he needs to do something about it, I wonder if it will be something more concrete. Like Cads weave disruptor showing the captive Logain is a fake or something along those lines. Or hell, maybe she's got a ter'angreal that detects people who have been 13x13'd.

[YourNewDragonAndGod]

I think it has to do with what zen Rand says in ToM. I don't have the direct quote but its along the lines of, "Tell them I was wrong. Tell them that they are not weapons, but men. 

Maybe that will make the difference." I always thought thats what Rand learned from Cadsuane because of the whole laughter and tears thing.

[Suttree]

First of course, she needs to be taught humility as well. Cads is fabuluous and she knows it.

 

She herself, full of pride in her new shawl and her own strength, had been taught by a near toothless wilder at a farm in the heart of the Black Hills." [WH: 34, The Hummingbird's Secret, 624]

[SonOfBattles20]

I think it has to do with what zen Rand says in ToM. I don't have the direct quote but its along the lines of, "Tell them I was wrong. Tell them that they are not weapons, but men. 

Maybe that will make the difference." I always thought thats what Rand learned from Cadsuane because of the whole laughter and tears thing.

 

 

That's what I always assumed too. She kind of unintentionally pushed him to reach those conclusions in VoG. 

[Atheose]

"It's Cadsuane. She is going to teach you something, you and the Asha'man. All the Asha'man, I mean. It's something you have to learn, but I don't know what it is, except that none of you will like learning it from her. You aren't going to like it at all."

 

Just random thoughts before aMOL do you think this learning applies to all the darkfriend Asha'man as well and those that have been 13x13? It doesnt say only light sided Asha'man need to learn this, but if thats the case it seems like it has nothing to do with the last battle or manners since dark friend Asha'man would learn it to?

I just re-read Towers of Midnight, and in the scene where Rand comes back to Tear and is "enlightened" he specifically tells Cadsuane that she has taught him that he needs to be more than a weapon. That seems to fulfill the prophecy, in my interpretation.

[stgermaine]

Agreed.

[Wolf505]

 

"It's Cadsuane. She is going to teach you something, you and the Asha'man. All the Asha'man, I mean. It's something you have to learn, but I don't know what it is, except that none of you will like learning it from her. You aren't going to like it at all."

 

Just random thoughts before aMOL do you think this learning applies to all the darkfriend Asha'man as well and those that have been 13x13? It doesnt say only light sided Asha'man need to learn this, but if thats the case it seems like it has nothing to do with the last battle or manners since dark friend Asha'man would learn it to?

I just re-read Towers of Midnight, and in the scene where Rand comes back to Tear and is "enlightened" he specifically tells Cadsuane that she has taught him that he needs to be more than a weapon. That seems to fulfill the prophecy, in my interpretation.

 

 

That was my thought too.  Pretty sure this one's been fulfilled.  She taught Rand something important, which he felt the need to pass onto the Asha'man, and he was DEFINATELY not happy about it before-hand.

[Balefire to da face!]

Could be so, I have a blind spot in some ways when it comes to TGS and ToM. I loved those books, but I loved them so much that I devoured both of them within about 2 or 3 days of their release and haven't read them since. So I do worry sometimes that I missed some of the more subtle fulfillments in both.