Shields?

[The Dalai Lamo]

Hey guys,

first post!

I just finished book eleven and decided to go look for forums which I didn't do before to avoid spoilers.

 

Anyway I noticed something strange about the weaponry in the books: there's no shields!

The only thing I can remember is in the first book we see Jagad Agelmar's armor and his weapons and he has a big two-handed over-the-top sword on the one hand and he has kind of like a morningstar weapon with a big kiteshield I think it was.

 

I think that's the only time we saw a shield, maybe I'm wrong.

 

This to me is quite paradoxical linguistically because shielding and being shielded means to be blocked off from the Power (and is used very regularly) but if shields are so obscure in actual warfare than how could that have been integrated into the language so prominently? (god that sentence is way too long and esthetically worthless)

 

Any thoughts,

Don't Forget, Free Tibet!

[SBoydW]

Huh..... :? Ya know, I don't think that I remember any kind of shield, other than shields of power, being mentioned either.

 

But the word shield could have come from anywhere. Even though when we think of shields the midevil(sp?) knights and whatnot used. But the word it self is used in many other contexts. Such as "buildings shielding people from weather," or something else along those lines, that's probably why the word has stayed integrated.

[The Dalai Lamo]

Just noticed I overlooked something fairly obvious, all the aiel use bucklers.

 

Still that's all.

 

Don't Forget, Free Tibet

[SBoydW]

Well bucklers aren't really shields in my opinion..

[Meliane]

I remember shields. I just read Crown of Swords and I think I remember shields in there. Possibly during the parts about the soldiers who went to fight in Illian against Sammael's army. When it was describing them and their coats being buttoned on the side so that the dragon on the front would not be broken... I seem to remember some of those guys having large shields. I'd have to look again, though, and I don't have my books here.

[SBoydW]

I remember shields. I just read Crown of Swords and I think I remember shields in there. Possibly during the parts about the soldiers who went to fight in Illian against Sammael's army. When it was describing them and their coats being buttoned on the side so that the dragon on the front would not be broken... I seem to remember some of those guys having large shields. I'd have to look again, though, and I don't have my books here.

 

Ohh yeahhhh... And now that I think back, you're right.

[son omerc]

The Legion of the Dragon has shield bearers, they carry shields that reach from about shoulder to ankle. I always picture a long Roman shield when I read the description, but that is probably not exactly what RJ envisioned when he wrote the description.

 

Lord Aglemar fights from horse back, heavily armored and the horse is barded, so any shield he carried would be small to be easily handled from horseback with only one hand. In fact most of the troops we have seen have been cavalry of one type or another. The Cairhenien foot who end up in the Band are Pikes and Halberdiers and therefore have little use for shields. If their pikes cannot hold they generally fight with shortswords, longknives, daggers, cudgels, and in the last extreme hands, feet, and teeth.

 

We just haven't been introduced to a force who incorporates a shieldwall as part of its defense. That Mat and Bashere come up with a force that incorporates shields is proof that shields are an accepted form of self protection in that world. Really, how many of us see shields used in our world, yet we understand their use. The same applies in Randland, look at how many swords, spears, halberds, mailshirts, and other accoutrements of war turned up in the Two Rivers, a place clearly unused to war and fighting. Just because an implement of war isn't in actual everyday use doesn't mean that its use and design is erased from memory of every living being. Doesn't everyone have at least an inkling of what a Trebuchet, siege tower, or catapult is even though we don't pass one on our way to work every morning?

[algspkr]

The Aiel have bucklers, and the Legion of the Dragon has large shields. I picture the Legion's shields as being similar in appearance to Roman shields, but with a tapered point, and much heavier.

[Thor]

Why you say it's heavier? Wouldn't that decrease mobility?

[chuckievi]

It would decrease mobility, but increase protection towards penetrating objects like arrows and bolts. Given they are used as a shield wall, not part of their total offence, but instead a defensive measure, better protection would be proferred.

[icspots]

Okay, so we now have three references to shields: Aglemar's, TLoTD, and the Aiel bucklers. btw, bucklers are in fact shields... just small round ones vs. large body covering ones.

 

It is somewhat interesting that there isn't much emphasis on them in TWoT world, though obviously it's possible since Mat/Bashere figured out a good way to use them.

 

On the topic of TLoTD's sheilds I seem to remember (don't have books with me) that they were described as unwieldy, large, etc.

[algspkr]

Why you say it's heavier? Wouldn't that decrease mobility?

The Roman shields were mainly made of wood. I picture the shields that the Legion of the Dragon using as being made of steel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scutum_%28shield%29

[Mardragon]

Whether or not shields are used depends a lot on how extensive the body armour is. For example in the dark ages and much of the middle ages, shields were very useful since often only the main torso was armoured (if that) and often only then the armour was limited (i.e. imagine chain mail against a heavy axe).

 

In the latter middle ages when the entire body was covered with plate armor, shield were required less required, which was why more emphasis was put on those big two handed swords.

 

You don't really get the impression that in the WoT books that soldiers are that heavily armored though do you (although breastplates are quite common)? Hence you'd think that there would be more shields than are described.

[Mercer]

First off, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe only the front rank of the Legion utilizes shields...as a method of protecting against a first charge/volley, I assumed. They are more skirmishers than anything once in the thick of it.

 

Second, I think the main reason most people forget about shields (myself included) in the series is that the preferred weapon of the a soldier/lord/combatant (discluding Aiel, who weren't originally prominent in the series) is Jordan's hilted katana hybrid, a two handed blade. This generally does away with the point of lugging around a shield. And as most of the early WoT books don't show many large military forces, all Jordan's descriptions (very detailed, obviously) involve solitary travellers and hunters and whatnot...who all use the two handed blade as opposed to a weapon that might reasonably work with a shield, such as a lance. It made sense to me to assume that when Jordan started writing lancers and large formations etc, he didn't feel the need to mention shields...myself, I took it for granted. What else would lancers be holding with their off-hand?

[SinisterDeath]

Each others hands.. Duh.

[Mardragon]

Each others hands.. Duh.

 

Ooooh, it's the camp brigade!

<ducky_mode>Hello soldiers!</ducky_mode>

 

Don't mind me being silly. The post put a rather amusing image in my head. All those stockings and codpieces don't help...

[SBoydW]

Each others hands.. Duh.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Sorry that put the image of all the lancers in pink armor, with green tassels. All their horses have red hoof paint....... :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Maybe it's just me but that's really funny.