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4) Page 863. Mat "learns" Noal is Jain Farstrider. Except... he was there when Noal TOLD them that's who he was, just before the snakes/foxes killed him. I know Mat has memory problems, but this seems a little stretched.

 

On 863 Mat realizes that Noal was a hero of the Horn not that he was Jain, which he did already know.

 

"Noal.  One of the heroes of the Horn.  It bloody made sense.  Jain Farstrider himself."

 

Not the right interpretation, I think.

 

Rather than him suddenly realizing that Noal is Jain (which would contradict the death scene in ToM), I think Mat is thinking "This guy is Jain Farstrider, famous badass and totally awesome adventurer, who died a brave death to let us escape from the Tower. It makes sense for him to be a Hero of the Horn."

But he already HAD that reaction, at the end of ToM. Did he not?

 

Mat did not know that Noal/Jain Farstrider was a Hero of the Horn at the end of ToM. Mat's surprise in AMoL is finding out that he's a Hero. There was no re-realization that he was Jain Farstrider.

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4) Page 863. Mat "learns" Noal is Jain Farstrider. Except... he was there when Noal TOLD them that's who he was, just before the snakes/foxes killed him. I know Mat has memory problems, but this seems a little stretched.

 

On 863 Mat realizes that Noal was a hero of the Horn not that he was Jain, which he did already know.

 

"Noal.  One of the heroes of the Horn.  It bloody made sense.  Jain Farstrider himself."

 

Not the right interpretation, I think.

 

Rather than him suddenly realizing that Noal is Jain (which would contradict the death scene in ToM), I think Mat is thinking "This guy is Jain Farstrider, famous badass and totally awesome adventurer, who died a brave death to let us escape from the Tower. It makes sense for him to be a Hero of the Horn."

But he already HAD that reaction, at the end of ToM. Did he not?

 

Mat did not know that Noal/Jain Farstrider was a Hero of the Horn at the end of ToM. Mat's surprise in AMoL is finding out that he's a Hero. There was no re-realization that he was Jain Farstrider.

Thats exactly what I said

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4) Page 863. Mat "learns" Noal is Jain Farstrider. Except... he was there when Noal TOLD them that's who he was, just before the snakes/foxes killed him. I know Mat has memory problems, but this seems a little stretched.

 

On 863 Mat realizes that Noal was a hero of the Horn not that he was Jain, which he did already know.

 

"Noal.  One of the heroes of the Horn.  It bloody made sense.  Jain Farstrider himself."

 

Not the right interpretation, I think.

 

Rather than him suddenly realizing that Noal is Jain (which would contradict the death scene in ToM), I think Mat is thinking "This guy is Jain Farstrider, famous badass and totally awesome adventurer, who died a brave death to let us escape from the Tower. It makes sense for him to be a Hero of the Horn."

But he already HAD that reaction, at the end of ToM. Did he not?

 

Mat did not know that Noal/Jain Farstrider was a Hero of the Horn at the end of ToM. Mat's surprise in AMoL is finding out that he's a Hero. There was no re-realization that he was Jain Farstrider.

Thats exactly what I said

 

It is, but  aguyuno seems to have missed it or something.

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Did the battle in Cairhien against the first army resolve itself that quickly?

 

Pretty much, yeah.

 

They went into battle right after the eclipse, believing that the southern trolloc army was going to show up the next day, so they had to finish the northern horde quick.

 

As it turns out, the southern army shows up the same day a few hours before sunset, just when Elayne's troops were finishing the northern horde.

 

They manage to finish the northern and start repositioning just before nightfall, when all seems lost. Then, Logain shows up with the Asha'man and they do the giant lava gateway trick to get a breather.

 

After the breather (a few hours long), combat resumes and ends after a swift but brutal fight.

 

So they either finished the combat during the night of the day of the eclipse or early the following morning.

 

I really don't see any point in the sequence where you could insert a single day, much less several.

Edited by Estrecca
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ERRORS:

 

One problem I was having while reading AMOL and I believe it was brought up multiple times throughout the series, but more so in AMOL, is that if the Trollocs arent being driven to battle or a task and just lazing around that disorder and chaos would break out, and fighting among each other would break out.

 

My issue with this is the massive build up of trollocs for AMOL. We are never told specific numbers but the amount of trollocs used in the last 4 books is probably a million+. All of these trollocs are created in the blasted lands and probably near SG. I have a hard time believing all these trollocs are created and immediately put to use all over Randland. They had to have a buildup a gathering of them for AMOL so how are they able to to control them then but that above statement is frequently busted out in AMOL.

 

My Second Problem is the mention of Demandred using the Sa'Angreal and being linked with a full circle of 72. I think they over played themselves mentioning that. That seems like such an epic amount of power and it is hard to swallow that he just sits there at the heights shooting a few small beams of balefire. When you give someone that much power it creates a writers block in my opinion. What the hell is he supposed to do with all that power now without drastically changing how the LB went? 

 

 

 

 

Also wanted to make a quick statement on the earlier Egwene is 70% the power of Rand, etc. There isnt a chart that gives us an exact idea of every character's power. It would be great if there was one but it would also be silly, almost like we are trying to play MAGIC. So we are left with all the readers trying to piece together the best info they can and then applying that through their own POV of which character is their favorite. So we all end up being a little biased... 

 

Someone also stated that Lanfear was about the equivalent of LTT. Here is the distinction i would like to make. Rand is clearly more than LTT and it was driven into us in the last 3 books. Rand is the trump card. He is the most powerful channeler of all time. It is just something i believe everyone should understand.

 

So Rand is the 100%.

 

Now order everyone else below that. Egwene in my personal opinion is around 65% Rand's strength. Which is not bad considering he is the strongest channeler of all time. Also I am stating that as a reader who cant stand egwene. One of my least favorite characters in the entire series.

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You know, what Terez is saying is very close to what I see. I'm tired of people asserting how ''bungled'' the timeline was by RJ already. It really...wasn't. Not THAT bad.

 

A lot of people didn't understand the ''Roshomon'' style RJ played with but it was pretty clear. ACOS started in the middle of the aftermath of Dumai's Wells. ACOS also covered only one week - which, in Randland, is 10 days....Winter's Heart showed the aftermath of Mat's recovery (which is what he was doing offscreen in POD) and COT featured a beginning that ''overlapped'' the cleansing and also allowed readers to see the first reactions of many people who were Not AT the cleansing. By halfway through COT I still felt pretty straight.

 

It wasn't THAT big a mess to where Brandon should have mangled it to the extend he did.

 

IMO.

 

 

Fish

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Rand is not any stronger than Lews Therin was. Nor is he any stronger than Moridin.

What do you mean Terez?!?! Didn't you see that raging TEMPEST of a power display at Maradon,  where Rand channeled a STORM of LIGHT!!! I mean it's not like he had an item of power to help him or anyth...errr wait.

Edited by Suttree
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Rand is not any stronger than Lews Therin was. Nor is he any stronger than Moridin.

What do you mean Terez?!?! Didn't you see that raging TEMPEST of a power display at Maradon,  where Rand channeled a STORM of LIGHT!!! I mean it's not like he had an item of power to help him or anyth...errr wait.

This does raise another good question. Just how strong IS that fat man angreal he had? Far as I know, they kept calling it an angreal and not a s'angreal.

 

Also, at one point Pevara remarks that it "just isn't fair" how Androl can sense her channeling but she can't sense his. But then throughout the last battle, the Aes Sedai all seem to be operating under the theory (and Egwene remarks on it at one point, though I forget when and where I admit) that men can't sense them. Huh?

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I think a lot of the timeline issues where just written off with the little note that time gets all distorted the closer you get to Shayol Ghul... so the farther away you are, the faster time goes.  Which makes for a really messy, albeit convenient, plot device really...

 

I do agree with the conclusion that putting Demandred in a full circle with one of the most powerful sa'angreal's ever made really didn't translate onto the page all that well... Rand with Callandor could evaporate a trolloc army in a storm of light, but Demandred with a full circle and Sakarnen had to resort to a Rolling Ring of Earth and Fire and some balefire blasts?  I know he wanted to get Llews Therin's attention... but simply winking the combined armies of the Light out of existence would've been a faster way to go about it anyway.

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I think a lot of the timeline issues where just written off with the little note that time gets all distorted the closer you get to Shayol Ghul... so the farther away you are, the faster time goes.  Which makes for a really messy, albeit convenient, plot device really...

 

I do agree with the conclusion that putting Demandred in a full circle with one of the most powerful sa'angreal's ever made really didn't translate onto the page all that well... Rand with Callandor could evaporate a trolloc army in a storm of light, but Demandred with a full circle and Sakarnen had to resort to a Rolling Ring of Earth and Fire and some balefire blasts?  I know he wanted to get Llews Therin's attention... but simply winking the combined armies of the Light out of existence would've been a faster way to go about it anyway.

 

The worst part was how he kept throwing these "pebbles" at the people he fought with a sword. Like bitch, toss a damn boulder at them. Make the earth give way and have him plummet 800 thousand feet. I know he was stupidly cocky, but jeez.

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I think a lot of the timeline issues where just written off with the little note that time gets all distorted the closer you get to Shayol Ghul... so the farther away you are, the faster time goes.  Which makes for a really messy, albeit convenient, plot device really...

 

I don't think he was trying to write off any timeline issues with that. I don't know if the idea for time distortion was Brandon's or RJ's, but I don't find it to be unbelievable given what we know of what the DO can do. Perhaps there was a level of convenience to it, making Rand's fight last for as long as everyone else's, but it wasn't meant to explain away contradictions from TOM. 

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Rand is not any stronger than Lews Therin was. Nor is he any stronger than Moridin.

 

Is it canon that Moridin is as strong as LTT?. Isn't LTT the highest a channeler can be in WoT.

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Rand is not any stronger than Lews Therin was. Nor is he any stronger than Moridin.

 

Is it canon that Moridin is as strong as LTT?. Isn't LTT the highest a channeler can be in WoT.

 

Elan and Lews were the same strength, and the strongest men alive (and probably could be). Moridin and Rand are the same souls and the same strength.

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No. 

 

 

It does not state anywhere in WoT that just because they are the same souls that they have the same strength. In fact to believe that goes against the entire Pattern. They have the same soul therefor they can both channel. All of their souls reborn can channel. However, depending on the age they are spit out, will determine their strength. The more unbalanced the pattern is the more the pattern will try and balance itself. Meaning the more or less powerful the Dragon will be. 

 

Yes Rand was more powerful than LTT. I see some of you disagree well that's fine. [Removed]

 

I am not talking about the Angreal he uses on occasion. I am talking about all the signs pointing to the fact that he clearly elevates himself to a whole new level in the last 3 books. Did LTT fix the Bore? Could LTT make trees, grass, flowers, etc. sprout up around him? Did the sun shine everywhere he walked? 

 

[Removed]

Edited by Barid Bel Medar
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Lol. Not really the way to go as a new member but to each their own.

 

As an aside a number of things you mention trees, grass, sunlight etc has nothing to do with the OP. The Dragon is one with the land, RJ was quite clear on that point. Also please provide evidence for your claim that channeling strength varies from rebirth to rebirth.

 

Rand is not any stronger than Lews Therin was. Nor is he any stronger than Moridin.

Is it canon that Moridin is as strong as LTT?. Isn't LTT the highest a channeler can be in WoT.

 

BWB

 

Believed to be the most powerful of the Chosen in the use of the One Power, he was equaled by non but Lews Therin Telamon himself.

Edited by Barid Bel Medar
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There were a few little things here and there that bugged me about AMoL.  The biggest one involved the Heroes of the Horn and the banner to which they follow to answer the Horn's call.  Let's take a look back at The Great Hunt, Ch 47: The Grave Is No Bar To My Call when Artur Hawkwing is speaking to Rand.

 

"Something is wrong here. Something holds me." Suddenly he turned his sharp-eyed gaze on Rand. "You are here.  Have you the banner?" A murmur ran through those behind him.


"Yes." Rand tore open the straps of his saddlebags and pulled out the Dragon's banner.  It filled his hands and hung almost to his stallion's knees. The murmur among the heroes rose.


"The Pattern weaves itself around our necks like halters," Artur Hawking said. "You are here.  The banner is here. The weave of this moment is set.  We have come to the Horn, but we must follow the banner.  And the Dragon."


Just a few lines down, they even describe the banner and confirm that it is indeed the Dragon banner and not the Banner of Light, which contains the Ancient Aes Sedai Symbol on a field of red.  

 

Hastily, Rand helped him tie the banner to the pole.  When Perrin remounted, pole in hand, a current of air seemed to ripple the pale length of the banner so the serpentine Dragon appeared to move, alive.


Before the Horn is blown and when things aren't looking good for the forces of Light, Mat rallies some troops to make one last charge with Rand's banner but it is not the Dragon banner he is referring to.  This is in Ch 37: The Last Battle - Pg.798

 

Mat dug in his saddlebags as Lan withdrew.  He pulled out Rand's banner, the one of the ancient Aes Sedai.  He'd gathered it earlier, thinking perhaps it might have some use.  "Somebody hoist this thing up.  We're fighting in Rand's bloody name.  Let's show the Shadow we're proud of it."

Dannil took the banner, find a spear to use as a pole.


The one line implies that this is not the Dragon banner, despite it being called 'Rand's banner' but instead is the Banner of Light/Ancient Aes Sedai.  Which would be the ancient Aes Sedai symbol on a field of red as depicted on the cover of The Path of Daggers.  Now perhaps I'm just misinterpreting the line and by saying it's 'the one of the ancient Aes Sedai' it's referring to Lews Therin and not the ancient Aes Sedai symbol.  I don't think so because there is more evidence to back up that the banner that is being referred to and referenced is indeed the ancient Aes Sedai symbol banner.  When the Heroes finally arrive, they reference this same banner. Ch. 39: Those Who Fight - Pg. 817



 

Hawking nodded toward something nearby.  Rand's banner, Dannil still held it aloft.  "We arrive here to gather at the banner.  We can fight for you because of it Gambler, and because the Dragon leads you - though he does it from afar.  It is enough."


This is definitely the same banner that Dannil was holding from the last quote.  Now what makes me think that it's the banner of the ancient Aes Sedai and not the Dragon banner?  Well that comes later when Mat and Olver arrive at Thakan'dar.  


 

Panicked, Mat looked about.  "The banner! I dropped the bloody banner!"
Olver smiled, looking up at the sign made by the swirling clouds.  "It will be fine -  we're beneath his banner already," he said, then lifted the Horn and blew a beautiful note."


I think it's safe to say that the banner Dannil carries and the one that Mat drops in Thakan'dar is the ancient Aes Sedai symbol banner.

A few other things that irked me:

-> No mention of Lord Dobraine Taborwin.  I don't remember them ever saying he died in ToM or TGS.  I guess he was just chillin' during the Last Battle?
-> Min's viewing about Darlin.  It was about him marrying Caralin(sp?) and that they were both going to die.  It mentions that Darlin was half dead when his tent was attacked at Shayol Ghul but that he was found and healed.  Not to say he won't die later on after the books but why mention the viewing at all if this is the case?
->Demandred's doings before AMoL.  Sure he was gaining the allegiance of the Sharans and training them.  There was evidence that he was still affecting the events of Randland as well.  Sammael's comments and Aran'gar's comments make it seem like he had some direct involvement in the doings of RL.  Also it can be pretty easily surmised that he was the one who appeared to Masema pretending to be the Lord Dragon. Not to mention his involvement with the events of Dumai's Wells and his secret mission of Balefirin' the crap out of crap.  SO WHAT DID HE DO?!
->It was mentioned that channeling, perhaps the One Power and the True Power, near Shayol Ghul was a sure way to die/get fried.  Not sure where this was mentioned but it obviously didn't hold true in the events of the final books.
-> When Moghedien takes on Demandred's guise and tries to rally the Sharans, it sort of never pans back to this.  The battle is just seemingly lost and the next time we see her she's getting a'ydam'ed.
-> What ever happened to the Shaido?  Did they really all just return to the Waste?  There wasn't enough resolution on this.
-> I was really hoping for the Tinkers to play a larger role.  Maybe I just fell in love with the whole 'Seed Singing the Pattern Shut" theory.  Especially the viewing about Perrin and flowers and trees blooming and growing all around him. It only slightly mentions green things growing at Shayol Ghul.

Anyway end rant.  Overall I liked the book and it was the best we could have gotten.

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I think a lot of the timeline issues where just written off with the little note that time gets all distorted the closer you get to Shayol Ghul... so the farther away you are, the faster time goes.  Which makes for a really messy, albeit convenient, plot device really...

 

I don't think he was trying to write off any timeline issues with that. I don't know if the idea for time distortion was Brandon's or RJ's, but I don't find it to be unbelievable given what we know of what the DO can do. Perhaps there was a level of convenience to it, making Rand's fight last for as long as everyone else's, but it wasn't meant to explain away contradictions from TOM. 

I have no real problems with the timelines up to the end of TOM. Yes there was that Mat 'hich' and a few small glitches, but nothing that couldn't be figured out. AMOL however, is so vague as to make drawing up a timeline pointless. The references we get don't work as a cohesive whole, so, once you get past the FoM meeting, every event can only be given as '+/- a few days'.

 

Time passing at different rates is not a problem of itself. What it did do I suspect, is to mask continuity problems when scenes were moved around during editing. It would be all too easy to assume that , say, Perrin's timeline can be fudged since he keeps jumping around between timezones, but forget that he has very specific timestamps that can not be taken at face value (as they occur in yet another timezone).

 

And then there is that big hole in the space-time continuum that happens before the eclipse...

 

There are also other, smaller contradictions, but I need to do some more re-reading and checking before I post those

 

... beginning to think Terez is right...

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-> Min's viewing about Darlin.  It was about him marrying Caralin(sp?) and that they were both going to die.  It mentions that Darlin was half dead when his tent was attacked at Shayol Ghul but that he was found and healed.  Not to say he won't die later on after the books but why mention the viewing at all if this is the case?

-> When Moghedien takes on Demandred's guise and tries to rally the Sharans, it sort of never pans back to this.  The battle is just seemingly lost and the next time we see her she's getting a'ydam'ed.

No, no, not "die", but "die in bed"! That's a different thing definitely :) And of course all men are going to die.

 

Moggy was broadsided and probably was unconsious for most part of the battle or fled.

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Hello everyone. Newbie here and I apologize if this is not an error.

 

I know MoL could never have been perfect, yet for me it was a very satisfying conclusion. The one big continuity issue that still bothers me, days after finishing the book, is how did Faile end up at Merilor where Perrin finds her when the last we heard of her whe was fleeing Trollocs in Shayol Gul. Is this a huge mistake or am I missing something? It very clearly says Merrilor on page 902 and that is where Perrin has fallen asleep after coming from Shayol Ghul through a gateway and he recognizes it as being Merrilor in his wolf dream.

 

Thanks!

 

Mark

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Hello everyone. Newbie here and I apologize if this is not an error.

 

I know MoL could never have been perfect, yet for me it was a very satisfying conclusion. The one big continuity issue that still bothers me, days after finishing the book, is how did Faile end up at Merilor where Perrin finds her when the last we heard of her whe was fleeing Trollocs in Shayol Gul. Is this a huge mistake or am I missing something? It very clearly says Merrilor on page 902 and that is where Perrin has fallen asleep after coming from Shayol Ghul through a gateway and he recognizes it as being Merrilor in his wolf dream.

You have missed a large part of the book, apparently. Did you read about the Horn being sounded on FoM?

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Hello everyone. Newbie here and I apologize if this is not an error.

 

I know MoL could never have been perfect, yet for me it was a very satisfying conclusion. The one big continuity issue that still bothers me, days after finishing the book, is how did Faile end up at Merilor where Perrin finds her when the last we heard of her whe was fleeing Trollocs in Shayol Gul. Is this a huge mistake or am I missing something? It very clearly says Merrilor on page 902 and that is where Perrin has fallen asleep after coming from Shayol Ghul through a gateway and he recognizes it as being Merrilor in his wolf dream.

 

Thanks!

 

Mark

 

Welcome to DM! 

 

This is not an error, although I admit that I was a bit confused myself when I first read it, and had to go back and have a look a second time. 

 

If you go back to and look at the Faile and Olver PoV's, when they are taken prisoner and betrayed by Aravine, they actually go through a gateway to the FoM into a Trolloc camp. 

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Hello everyone. Newbie here and I apologize if this is not an error.

 

I know MoL could never have been perfect, yet for me it was a very satisfying conclusion. The one big continuity issue that still bothers me, days after finishing the book, is how did Faile end up at Merilor where Perrin finds her when the last we heard of her whe was fleeing Trollocs in Shayol Gul. Is this a huge mistake or am I missing something? It very clearly says Merrilor on page 902 and that is where Perrin has fallen asleep after coming from Shayol Ghul through a gateway and he recognizes it as being Merrilor in his wolf dream.

You have missed a large part of the book, apparently. Did you read about the Horn being sounded on FoM?

Thanks for replying. I admit it was a bit confusing. The entire time I believed Faile and Olver, etc were at Shayol Ghul when he blew the horn. That they never went through the gateway. I guess I'll have to re-read that section.

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