Prologue Through to the End of the Epilogue--Full Book Discussion.

[Kudlak]

Why HP ending better is LotR ending :-)

[Atheose]

Whilst many will continue to be critical of how Brandon wrote their "pet" characters, or how the Last Battle included elements which hadn't been seen in the series before, A Memory Of Light - at least for me - was a credible, readable, and ultimately cherishable conclusion to arguably the greatest Fantasy saga ever embarked upon.

This is how I feel. Of course there were parts I didn't like, and a few things stuck out as un-Jordan-like, but overall I'm extremely pleased that it was ended so well despite Jordan passing away 6 years ago.

[vader]

Overall I liked the book, I have some issues, but I feel that no matter what there would be questions.

I am surprised about moghedian being captured at the end.  She is the spider for her being out in the open, with the ability to channel not hidden, and to be captured so easily, is a lame method of closing that thread.

[deepak_dragonreborn]

Yup same here. In the end its the journey that mattered and the fact we got an ending is the icing on the cake... Sure things are not perfect in the final 3 books but it was really a daunting task for Brandon and he did his best which is good enough for me...

[LeisureSuitLarry]

Does anyone recall what happened to Moghedien's cour'souvra? She's stroking it in the prologue and thinking about how bad it would be to lose it, but I don't recall any point in the book where she's freed from it. Then at the end she's collared and that's that. Did she get released from it at some point? When the DO was defeated was her soul freed from it? Or is she just royally screwed because the Seanchan are literally going to throw her soul away?

 

LSL

[bimber]

no matter how the ending went some will always complain its just in our nature...but we all here coz we love the series and watched it grow so think the fans did get cheated out ...yeah we can imagine and puzzle it out but it wont be the same...i loved the Lotr ending so guess i was expecting the same here and had too high hopes :/

[Terez]

Does anyone recall what happened to Moghedien's cour'souvra? She's stroking it in the prologue and thinking about how bad it would be to lose it, but I don't recall any point in the book where she's freed from it. Then at the end she's collared and that's that. Did she get released from it at some point? When the DO was defeated was her soul freed from it? Or is she just royally screwed because the Seanchan are literally going to throw her soul away?

 

LSL

 

She was freed from it in the sense that she was given it to wear. So long as no one else is wearing it, they can't control her. But if it's broken presumably she's in bad shape.

[mrdravid]

So those Windfinders and Kinswoman... did anyone else finish and go that was about 3 books worth of wasted space!

[Baoandred]

Hey just quickly as just had a thought, and though I guess it doesnt even matter, but when Demandred talks to his woman, and mentions how she has not given herself to the shadow, is this deliberate and intended to coincide with the 'flame of Tar Valon' not hurting those not turned to the shadow nearly as much?

 

A way of say that this one would have not died in the attack? I can't remember if it's the same woman who talked about how many shara channeled were left at the end or not.

[elmis]

The good:

 

- The series is finished! Feels sad, good, and odd at the same time. No more Wheel of Time books to look forward to.

- Olver being rescued by Noal

- Mat generaling all over the place.

- Sense of excitement and dread in the books.

- Graendal being at least a bit clever.

- Egwene sacrificing herself.

- Gawyn dying.

- Tam being a badass! :D

 

The bad:

- Neo-Perrin and the endless Slayer fights. Seems just odd to me that he can switch like Slayer can (what is the point of Slayer having two bodies?)

- Lanfears plot? I don't really understand why she needed Perrins help to disrupt them at the bore or why she helped him.

- Moiraine's return. After so long it just felt really underwhelming.. but then again I am not sure if it could ever have been handled with the expectiations people had for it.

- Doomseer (and all othe other "lets combine two words into one name" incidents)

- The WTF plans with regards to Caemlyn. It's the last battle, all the badguys are holed up in one place. Why would you want to draw them out and let them lose on the countryside. Wasn't the plan for that NOT to happen? Also, how many millions of trollocs were there in Caemlyn? The bulk of the Forces of Light were supposed to be down there. Why not just level the City using channelers and cannons and be done with it - it is already lost, and burned. Mortar and bricks can be rebuilt.

- Demandread switching between being brilliant and a raving lunatic.

- The shadow rings seeming stacking in strenght (not really bad, but I thought it was odd)?

- Lan surviving his duel, it would have been better if he had died.

- Vora's sa'angreal suddenly having the same flaw as Callandor, seemed like a total asspull. Would have been better if they just fought without the sa'angreals, having Egwene knowingly go above and beyond to defeat Taim. After all Lews Therin made Dragonmount seemingly just from his own strength (no angreal needed), in other words there is a precedent for channeling insane amounts unaided when not caring for what happens afterwards.

 

All in all, I was satisfied, it's really not a WoT book if we can't come here and complain a bit, it's part of the journey. Thank you to Team Jordan, BS, Harriet, ect for letting me finish the series, been reading and looking forward to the next book since 1997. It really feels as if I have grown up with the kids from Emonds Field. :)

 

EDIT: Looking back at my post, I have forgotten to add a lot of what happened in the book. I was hoping we'd get some more clues as to who Androl was, and what he had done, or perhaps a bit more information on how Demandred managed to get seemingly "Light" people fight on the Dark side (this was mentioned but not expanded upon). I also loved much of Lan's chapters, felt good to have him fighting and leading, instead of riding to his doom and sulking about bringing people to die.

[papertiger]

I always figured that Rand would have created a Nym, considering all the flowers following him around, then the Nym could teach the Tinkers about the true nature of the Song, as well as identify those who have the Voice.

[deepak_dragonreborn]

RJ said that Tinkers would never find the song.. But yeah creating a Nym would've been awesome. Especially at the place where he made those gigantic trees grow...

[TwelveBB]

So, in Rand's speech to the DO, who is he referencing? I'm trying to think who might fit into that, but really struggling?

* It was about a woman, torn and beaten down, cast from her throne and made a puppet—a woman who had crawled when she had to. That woman still fought. - Erm, Tigraine, but she's dead, and isn't fighting? Morgase? Siuan? Who is important enough to Rand who fits this? Avi, Min, Elayne don't seem to fit. Egwene? But then who is the last one?

* It was about a man that love repeatedly forsook, a man who found relevance in a world that others would have let pass them by. A man who remembered stories, and who took fool boys under his wing when the smarter move would have been to keep on walking. That man still fought. - Thom

* It was about a woman with a secret, a hope for the future. A woman who had hunted the truth before others could. A woman who had given her life, then had it returned. That woman still fought. - Moraine

* It was about a man whose family was taken from him, but who stood tall in his sorrow and protected those he could. - Perrin

* It was about a woman who refused to believe that she could not help, could not Heal those who had been harmed. - Nynaeve

* It was about a hero who insisted with every breath that he was anything but a hero. - Mat

* It was about a woman who would not bend her back while she was beaten, and who shone with the Light for all who watched. - Egwene?Any help?

[Owyn]

 

 

 

Demandred is the lord of Shara, an entire country with hundreds of channelers. It's easy bro . . .

 

Hmm, and yet they have no problem with fighting on the same side as Trollocs, I wonder? 

 

Another sticking point that is only very casually and circumferentially explained. 

 

Apparently the Sharans have their own prophecies surrounding Demandred.

 

Also the country may very well just be intrinsically evil with the leadership already committed to serving the Sharans.

 

The rank and file hate the Shadowspawn but that society isn't very big on individual thought and freedom of expression.

 

Think Iran and North Korea.  The PEOPLE might not want to go to war with large hulking animal headed things but no one is going to pipe up about it.

 

At least that's how I read it . . .

 

I'm sure the Sharans are wondering how the Randland forces could fight alongside monsters like the Ogier. They're described as pretty ferocious in this book. 

 

I thought it was pretty obvious that those Diamond tattoos have something to do with control in Sharan society.

 

My interpretation was that skarnen and the prophecies were set up for the Dragon, but Demandred co-opted it.  

[papertiger]

You nailed it, TwelveBB. That is exactly who those people were.

[TwelveBB]

Sorry papertiger, who did you think the first and last ones were, cos that's where I wasn't sure, and was just throwing out names.

 

 

*It was about a woman, torn and beaten down, cast from her throne and made a puppet—a woman who had crawled when she had to. That woman still fought. - Pretty sure its not Tigraine the more I think about it. I'd really have thought Egwene since she was a puppet amyrlin, but when was she cast from her throne? Morgase works really well (lost her throne, was Ravhin's puppet), but I have trouble imagining Rand thinking about her in his big fight. Siuan? When was she made a puppet, although it fits her a bit too.

 

* It was about a woman who would not bend her back while she was beaten, and who shone with the Light for all who watched. - Egwene?

 

The rest I'm pretty sure about though

[papertiger]

Morgase for the first and Egwene for the second. For sure.

[papertiger]

Rand felt a ton of guilt over the death of Morgase, so I wouldn't be surprised if he was thinking about her, especially after finding out from Elayne that she had lived and escaped Shaido captivity.

[Guest zsrvx4]

What was the point of showing homosexuality in this book?  I ask this in terms that I don't recall seeing it in any of the previous books, yet it seemed to have been thrown in AMOL twice, saying so-and-so prefers men.     I don't have a problem with it being there and it in no way takes away from the story for me, but why for the first time in the last book of a 14 book series?  I pretty sure I didn't see it before but I could be mistaken.

[deepak_dragonreborn]

There were quite a few hints about homosexuals in the book. RJ was more subtle while Brandon was more direct... I don't recall the scenes exactly but I think there is one instance in APOD when Rand gets attacked by the renegade Asha'man, tries to escape and stumbles into a room...

[morkhon]

What was the point of showing homosexuality in this book?  I ask this in terms that I don't recall seeing it in any of the previous books, yet it seemed to have been thrown in AMOL twice, saying so-and-so prefers men.     I don't have a problem with it being there and it in no way takes away from the story for me, but why for the first time in the last book of a 14 book series?  I pretty sure I didn't see it before but I could be mistaken.

It seemed out of place to me. Who knows...maybe Brandon felt a need to make sure everyone understand homosexuality exists in Randland.

[smileyman]

So, in Rand's speech to the DO, who is he referencing? I'm trying to think who might fit into that, but really struggling?

* It was about a woman, torn and beaten down, cast from her throne and made a puppet—a woman who had crawled when she had to. That woman still fought. - Erm, Tigraine, but she's dead, and isn't fighting? Morgase? Siuan? Who is important enough to Rand who fits this? Avi, Min, Elayne don't seem to fit. Egwene? But then who is the last one?

* It was about a man that love repeatedly forsook, a man who found relevance in a world that others would have let pass them by. A man who remembered stories, and who took fool boys under his wing when the smarter move would have been to keep on walking. That man still fought. - Thom

* It was about a woman with a secret, a hope for the future. A woman who had hunted the truth before others could. A woman who had given her life, then had it returned. That woman still fought. - Moraine

* It was about a man whose family was taken from him, but who stood tall in his sorrow and protected those he could. - Perrin

* It was about a woman who refused to believe that she could not help, could not Heal those who had been harmed. - Nynaeve

* It was about a hero who insisted with every breath that he was anything but a hero. - Mat

* It was about a woman who would not bend her back while she was beaten, and who shone with the Light for all who watched. - Egwene?Any help?

 

Morgase for the first (maybe Berelain too, but she wasn't as important to Rand as Morgase is) and Egwene for the last (because of what she did during the Last Battle. 

[papertiger]

I've heard people say that male homosexuality was addressed directly because RJ had already shown a number of lesbian relationships and Tor felt obligated to level the playing field.

 

It was tacky and one of the many things that broke my immersion in the narrative.

[BFG]

My understanding is that when questioned RJ said that male homosexuality existed, but since at that time we hadn't seen a large male dominated environment we hadn't come across a relationship yet, so although he may have been more subtle about it, if he showed time in the BT it's possible that he would have included male 'pillowfriends'.

[Axon]

I had forgotten about pillowfriends.  Hah.