Prologue Through to the End of Chapter 15

[Lord Melkor]

Regarding not committing of all channelers to offensive by both Light and Dark sides - maybe they didn`t want to make the entire war a battle between channelers, since with hundreds of them it would mean uncontrolled bloodbath? 

[David Selig]

Let's be honest - Jordan made the channellers too powerful (see Dumai's Wells where the Asha'man destroyed many thousands despite having only a few months of training, or the slaughter at Algarin's Manor) - and gave the light side huge advantage in terms of their numbers (most Aes Sedai especially after Egwene's cull of the BA, thousands of Aiel WO, the Windfinders, the Kin, etc). The only way for the military side of the LB to be anything less of a complete slaughter of the Shadow forces is for the Lightsiders to be dumb and barely use channellers. Not Sanderson's fault Jordan planned this poorly.

[MarkDiLillo]

Let's be honest - Jordan made the channellers too powerful (see Dumai's Wells where the Asha'man destroyed many thousands despite having only a few months of training, or the slaughter at Algarin's Manor) - and gave the light side huge advantage in terms of their numbers (most Aes Sedai especially after Egwene's cull of the BA, thousands of Aiel WO, the Windfinders, the Kin, etc). The only way for the military side of the LB to be anything less of a complete slaughter of the Shadow forces is for the Lightsiders to be dumb and barely use channellers. Not Sanderson's fault Jordan planned this poorly.

 

fsfsdfsd

 

sorry.  did not mean to do that intentionally ;/

[David Selig]

Mark D, some of what you wrote seem like a spoiler to me, since I just finished Chapter 15 and

 

never mind, it was edited out, so I'll do the same.

.

[lilltempest]

Let's be honest - Jordan made the channellers too powerful (see Dumai's Wells where the Asha'man destroyed many thousands despite having only a few months of training, or the slaughter at Algarin's Manor) - and gave the light side huge advantage in terms of their numbers (most Aes Sedai especially after Egwene's cull of the BA, thousands of Aiel WO, the Windfinders, the Kin, etc). The only way for the military side of the LB to be anything less of a complete slaughter of the Shadow forces is for the Lightsiders to be dumb and barely use channellers. Not Sanderson's fault Jordan planned this poorly.

 

This is solved by powering up the opposition, not by retconning everything or having them act in a fashion that makes them all look like a bunch of halfwits. Too many powerful channelers with the good guys? Bring in some surprise Shadowspawn that Aginor created, either after he was reborn from Elza killing him and chained somewhere to create new nightmares or that the Shadow held in reserve to waste the Dragon and his followers. Bring in more Sharans, and make them more powerful than they were - after all, these people used males as breeding stock, so they likely have more channelers than anyone and given the DNA connection, they'd be more powerful. Have Demandred use the Ways to transport channelers from the Island of Madmen to create more chaos. There are ways to balance it without retconning everything and writing it where it comes off as utter idiocy.

[csarmi]

Yes, the whole war is incredinly stupid. I mean WTF, they Light has an extremely mobile force available, they could choose where to strike, how to strike and with what to strike. Just beat up those armies one by one.

 

Why do they have to fight on four fronts?

Why do they have to fight all fronts at the same time?

Why do they even HAVE to fight on those fronts at all? Trollocs can't pass through gateways. Just let them grasp at nothing...

 

Not to mention the scales of battles are off.

 

Very depressing, that.

[fionwe1987]

Let's be honest - Jordan made the channellers too powerful (see Dumai's Wells where the Asha'man destroyed many thousands despite having only a few months of training, or the slaughter at Algarin's Manor) - and gave the light side huge advantage in terms of their numbers (most Aes Sedai especially after Egwene's cull of the BA, thousands of Aiel WO, the Windfinders, the Kin, etc). The only way for the military side of the LB to be anything less of a complete slaughter of the Shadow forces is for the Lightsiders to be dumb and barely use channellers. Not Sanderson's fault Jordan planned this poorly.

 

As other's pointed out, Jordan left behind many resources for the Shadow. The one that was severely under utilized was the Red Veiled Aiel. If the book said that in 2000 years, their number had risen to around 2000 channelers, would we have doubted? And that would certainly have tilted the scales against the Aes Sedai and Wise Ones very well.

[batcaver]

 

 

I'm a lieflong fan, and I'm not saying this to bash Brandon (some of RJs stuff was poor in spots as well), but I must say, I entered this book with low expectations, which were raised a bit by some of the reviews, but I now wonder what is was these people were reading. I hope it gets better after chapter 15, but the main characters act shallowly, stupidly, and seem like cardboard cutouts for the most part. Smart battle commanders act stupidly, and there are obvious things that need to be explained (why is Mar riding south?) that just aren't. And Mat gave up his eye so Moiraine could quote the K cycle to everyone and magically fall into line? My God, why didn't Aviendha and Rand just have an intelligent, grown up discussion about what she saw and the Aiel? No, lets save it for a fly by the seat of the moment reveal in that incredibly sucky scene in the tend! Great idea, that will be awesome!!!!!!

 

If feel like I'm reading a book meant for 12 year-olds. Shallow. Not well though out.

 

I wish I didn't agree.  Don't get me wrong, there have been a lot of parts I've enjoyed so far and I've got enough momentum built up just wanting to know what's gonna happen to carry my excitement through to the end of the book, but...Given the positive tone of the early reviews, especially the ecstatic one Leigh Butler at Tor posted I really had higher hopes that the writing had improved more than it seems to have.  Man, I'm SO over these silly jokes that a ten year old wouldn't laugh at.  I could ignore it here and there, but they're constant.  The tell-don't-show approach seems to be more prevalent than ever, not least because most scenes feel pretty fast tracked.

 

Moiraine's return was completely underwhelming and disappointing. 

 

I am liking some characters, such as Egwene and Perrin.  Elayne has also been more interesting and enjoyable than usual.  It ain't all bad, but it certainly ain't all good.

[esvath]

The battles need to be done in the same time, thus four battlefronts.

 

They understand that focusing in one battle at a time, will result in victory in that battlefront but in the same time sacrificing the other three.

 

Kandor is a lost cause, but abandoning it will open access to Saldaea and Arafel.

 

To focus in Andor, means Lan will die and Tarwin's Gap will be overran by Trollocs, opening a massive invasion to Shienar and Arafel, straight to Field of Merrilor and then to Tar Valon. After that, the rest of Randland.

 

To focus in Tarwin's Gap will result in Trollocs go unchecked in Andor. This is in the middle of Randland. The victory of Tarwin's Gap will be a short victory without supply from southern nations.

 

To focus in Shayon Gul means abandoning all other nations, which means slaughter and a barren world. But abandoning Shayon Gul (and let Rand fight the DO unattended) is also unacceptable, since this will allow hordes of Shadowspawns to attack Rand, and killing the hope of the Light.

 

Thus, four battlefront actually is the most logical solution, with main focus on Andor (hence, the use of Dragons) and Shayon Gul, and two armies strong enough to hold the front at Kandor and Tarwin's Gap. The idea was to finish the battle in Andor as soon as possible, saving the southern nations and the supply chains, and then dedicate more troops to Kandor and Tarwin's Gap.

 

The bulk of Aes Sedai was stationed at Kandor, because this will free manpower to fight in other battlefronts. There are other channelers in other fronts, but since the war will be a long, protacted war without no one understand when it will end and how to end it, it will be foolish to dedicate the channelers to front line and risking their death or their fatique. If all channelers use their power for battle weaves in day one, and get killed or too tired to channel, who will fight in day two, three, etc? Also, how will the supplies get transported to the battlefronts? Committing all channelers to fight will result in massive victory in day one, but utter defeat afterwards.

 

 

[Selene's Shadow]

 

Let's be honest - Jordan made the channellers too powerful (see Dumai's Wells where the Asha'man destroyed many thousands despite having only a few months of training, or the slaughter at Algarin's Manor) - and gave the light side huge advantage in terms of their numbers (most Aes Sedai especially after Egwene's cull of the BA, thousands of Aiel WO, the Windfinders, the Kin, etc). The only way for the military side of the LB to be anything less of a complete slaughter of the Shadow forces is for the Lightsiders to be dumb and barely use channellers. Not Sanderson's fault Jordan planned this poorly.

 

As other's pointed out, Jordan left behind many resources for the Shadow. The one that was severely under utilized was the Red Veiled Aiel. If the book said that in 2000 years, their number had risen to around 2000 channelers, would we have doubted? And that would certainly have tilted the scales against the Aes Sedai and Wise Ones very well.

Now what has happened to the Rev Veiled Aiel?

I get the feeling they are in Shayol Guhl but I doubt all of them are just lining up there. And the dreadlords at the gap do seem to in fact be from the Black Tower. The problem being also that the Red Veiled Aiel with such numbers would have to be matched up against a big sect of channelers then. Who knows maybe they will battle their kin the Aiel wise ones in SG?

 

Btw do these threads have to clogged up with people criticising the writing? I have the same criticisms as many of you, but I have waited for this book for too long to let those dampen my enthusiasm. In fact I have just read around 15 chapters tonight when I was supposed to be revising for my upcoming exam :D 

I am sure there will be many topics open to this debate and there probably are already for those people who have already read the book. 

But let this topic and the other "pre the end" topics not be filled with all this moaning. It has basis but I come to these threads to discuss what is happening in the book at the current moment. Not to moan.