Black Cuendilar

[son omerc]

Checked the FAQ for this, but didn't find anything about it. How is black cuendillar made? All the new cuendillar that has been made has been white, yet the Seals on the Dark Ones prison are half black cuendillar. I thought maybe men's cuendillar might be black but then thought that if women refused to help with the sealing that surely they wouldn't help make the Seals, but maybe I'm wrong. Anyone have any ideas? Has RJ covered this at a signing or in a QotW?

[Moric]

Maybe a certain way of weaving the weave (a twist perhaps? hehe) the Aes Sedain hasn't rediscovered?

 

Moric

[Siswaiaman]

hmm. It could be a twisting of the weave, but then why hasn't it been discovered? Maybe theres an alterior way, not such a friendly one.

[son omerc]

I was thinking that seeing as iron made white cuendillar maybe copper, bronze, or maybe pewter might turn out something different. It might just explode though.

[Moric]

Maybe they've just not discovered it yet? EVERYONE knows experimenting with even the safest weaves are dangerous. That's why it took so long for anyone to rediscover how to make the Light-forsaken things in the first place.

 

Moric of the Singing Wind sept of the Miagoma aiel

[son omerc]

I can see a slightly different weave, or a man's channelling the male version i.e. the white being associated with women and saidar (white flame) and black being associated with men and saidan (black dragon fang), but it is also possible that a different substance, I think my previous examples were bad as they were not pure (except copper), lead, gold, silver, aluminum or even manganese (that turns black when added to clay and fired in a brick kiln). Maybe something that Egwene who is strong in locating metals in the earth (true Delving) may find in AMoL. I was really hoping someone had queried RJ and gotten more than a RAFO.

[son omerc]

Maybe they've just not discovered it yet? EVERYONE knows experimenting with even the safest weaves are dangerous. That's why it took so long for anyone to rediscover how to make the Light-forsaken things in the first place.

 

Can't tell if that was said straight-faced or derisevly, but it brings up a point I think that RJ has continually tried to make about how complacent the world and its people have become. I mean that NO ONE, before the heroes of the story show up, is in the least interested in finding out how anything works or rediscovering Lost Weaves or Lost Anything. Someone says that it is dangerous and I mean absolutely NO ONE will even try. Except Setalle Anan who I think was the Aes Sedai who studied ter' angreal and woke up burned out years ago. Now she is a character who could possibly be healed by Damer Flinn in the upcoming book and prove a valuable addition to the team.

[Moric]

No, I was quite honest and I think that the ability to make different coloured cuendillar being lost is more likely that that it would depend on the original material.

I'm fully on your side about the cowardice of the third age, though... If my theory is correct I'd still say we don't have to wait more than three thousand years more for the rediscovery of black cuendillar.

 

Moric of the Singing Wind sept of the Miagoma aiel

[villiansv]

Checked the FAQ for this' date=' but didn't find anything about it. How is black cuendillar made? All the new cuendillar that has been made has been white, yet the Seals on the Dark Ones prison are half black cuendillar. I thought maybe men's cuendillar might be black but then thought that if women refused to help with the sealing that surely they wouldn't help make the Seals, but maybe I'm wrong. Anyone have any ideas? Has RJ covered this at a signing or in a QotW?[/quote']

I'll still go with white cuendillar being made by women, while black is made by men. Although the fateful accord ( ? ) ensured LTT would not get any women powerful enough to help in the sealing of the bore, I don't think it included every woman capable of making cuendillar. We know that the stronger you are, the faster you can make it, but given the number of women able to channel in the AoL, it's doubtful every single one strong enough to make cuendillar (even if it took her weeks for a small disk) was in the accord. So it was possible...

[Guest cwestervelt]

I don't think it is strength in the Power but an affinity to metals that allows you to make it quickly. I think Leanne, reduced as she is power wise, is one of the fastest at making it. That is why she was assigned to one of the chains.

[villiansv]

I don't think it is strength in the Power but an affinity to metals that allows you to make it quickly. I think Leanne' date=' reduced as she is power wise, is one of the fastest at making it. That is why she was assigned to one of the chains.[/quote']

point taken :-). however, i think my argument still applies.

[djon]

It has to be Male Female. The whole point is cooperate or die. Ben Franklin said, in an age long past~ :lol:, 'We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.' The symbol is male and female, the circle can only be strenghtened by adding the two Sadar and Sadin.

[Siswaiaman]

Maybe they've just not discovered it yet? EVERYONE knows experimenting with even the safest weaves are dangerous. That's why it took so long for anyone to rediscover how to make the Light-forsaken things in the first place.

 

took so long? if i remember correctly it took about a few weeks from when elayne got the a'dam to when she realised she could copy it. It didn't take her long at all, she was just the only one to try. Now that shes trying, and egwene at an even greater level then elayne, things should be discovered faster.

[Moric]

Actually it usually doesn't take very long to invent something when someone starts trying and/or finds the trick. For example: It took humanity quite a few thousand years to invent the vaccine. It didn't take the INVENTOR of the vaccine (what WAS his name, btw?) quite so long. The same goes for mr Bell inventing the telephone, Einstein formulating E=MC[squared] (can't write squared with my keyboard), the Wright-brothers making the first flight and so on, and so forth.

 

All discoveries and inventions take place after a long period when noone has thought to try it.

 

Moric of the Singing Wind sept of the Miagoma aiel

[Thor]

elayne didn' rediscover anything, she just copied pre-existing ter'angreals.

 

now if she makes a new one out of her own ideas, that'd be cool.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Actually it usually doesn't take very long to invent something when someone starts trying and/or finds the trick. For example: It took humanity quite a few thousand years to invent the vaccine. It didn't take the INVENTOR of the vaccine (what WAS his name' date=' btw?) quite so long. The same goes for mr Bell inventing the telephone, Einstein formulating E=MC[squared'] (can't write squared with my keyboard), the Wright-brothers making the first flight and so on, and so forth.

 

All discoveries and inventions take place after a long period when noone has thought to try it.

 

Moric of the Singing Wind sept of the Miagoma aiel

 

It doesn't take long once the supporting technology is in place.

 

The Wright Brothers required fairly sophisticated woodworking, fabric making and metalurgy in order to create the first heavier than air aircraft. They needed all the data Lillienthal and his glider experiments provided as well.

 

Having Aginor on his side was a big benefit to the DO in the AoL. But, Aginor is worthless to the DO in the Third Age. As Jordan has said, he has no way to make the tools to make the tools to make the tools to make the equipment to make...

[Guest cwestervelt]

elayne didn' rediscover anything' date=' she just copied pre-existing ter'angreals.

 

now if she makes a new one out of her own ideas, that'd be cool.[/quote']

 

I don't believe that is true. She copied the Dream Ter'angreal and the A'dam, but those weren't the only ones she made. I remember mention of one that renders the user invisible, and she wouldn't have had any model for that one.

[Graendals favourite]

Einstein couldn't have formulated special relativity until classical physics had been formulated well enough for him to notice it was actually inconsistent with nature or itself, and that also takes very evolved measuring equipment, since as with quantum physics, the inconsistencies aren't seen in day to day life, with a bare eye.

 

Since both theories approach classical physics in the day-to-day scale, they would've been only guesses or unnecessary complications without ways to confirm them.

 

But then with quantum mechanics known and formulated, with the tools to make them, it didn't take long for lasers, diodes, transistors and the like to emerge.

[Moric]

And nothing of that really contradicted what I tried to say. ;)

 

 

Moric

[Siswaiaman]

Actually it usually doesn't take very long to invent something when someone starts trying and/or finds the trick. For example: It took humanity quite a few thousand years to invent the vaccine. It didn't take the INVENTOR of the vaccine (what WAS his name' date=' btw?) quite so long. The same goes for mr Bell inventing the telephone, Einstein formulating E=MC[squared'] (can't write squared with my keyboard), the Wright-brothers making the first flight and so on, and so forth.

 

Here you state thigs are easy once the technology is in place...

 

Maybe they've just not discovered it yet? EVERYONE knows experimenting with even the safest weaves are dangerous. That's why it took so long for anyone to rediscover how to make the Light-forsaken things in the first place.

 

... and here you say how long it takes. If memory serves my correctly Elyane was the ONLY one to ever try to make terángreal and succeed. You would say that she had other knowledge to build up from, but if noone studies them, they how can they pass their knowledge on...

On the flip side, if everyone who studies them gets burned out or dies, them how can THEY pass their knowledge on?

[Guest cwestervelt]

Siswai'aman: Your Sorilea quote has to be either from Fires of Heaven or Lord of Chaos. Unless I am mistaken, she wasn't introduced until Fires of Heaven.

[Mardragon]

How they made black cuendillar...

 

Maybe they just made cuendiallar the normal way and used a splash of black paint?

 

:)

 

Kidding aside, that might not be too far from the truth. i.e. that's how pottery is coloured. Not that black paint itself was neccesarily used...

 

As for men making black, women making white... I guess that could be true, but I don't think so. Men and women might use different weaves or performs things a different way but I think the end result is much the same. (Take gateways for example).

[Guest cwestervelt]

Checked the FAQ for this' date=' but didn't find anything about it. How is black cuendillar made? All the new cuendillar that has been made has been white, yet the Seals on the Dark Ones prison are half black cuendillar. I thought maybe men's cuendillar might be black but then thought that if women refused to help with the sealing that surely they wouldn't help make the Seals, but maybe I'm wrong. Anyone have any ideas? Has RJ covered this at a signing or in a QotW?[/quote']

I'll still go with white cuendillar being made by women, while black is made by men. Although the fateful accord ( ? ) ensured LTT would not get any women powerful enough to help in the sealing of the bore, I don't think it included every woman capable of making cuendillar. We know that the stronger you are, the faster you can make it, but given the number of women able to channel in the AoL, it's doubtful every single one strong enough to make cuendillar (even if it took her weeks for a small disk) was in the accord. So it was possible...

 

I was just looking in Crossroads of Twilight and I would guess that almost all Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends actually were strong enough. It is only the speed of the transformation that depends on the ability in Fire and Earth. The better you can handle that, the faster you can make Cuendillar.

 

When making Cuendillar for sale, Janya makes the statement that "Every girl who's been chosen can already make three balls of fire, and this requires very little more of the Power. This is in response to Tiana commenting on how "some of these girls can barely manage to make a ball of fire change color with any surety." Crossroads of Twilight Chapter 17, "Secrets"

[Moric]

Well, Siswai'aman.

I'd say she did INDEED have some knowledge to begin with. She had an assortment of different ter'angreal to study, examining their structures and copying them, thereby reasoning out the way of making other ter'angreal (and altering the ones she has studied since the a'dam she uses on Mogheiden is clearly different is performance).

 

Maybe someone with a little less... affinity for this work would have had to need more time than Elayne Trakand.

 

Moric of the Singing Wind sept of the Miagoma aiel

[nashdude]

As for men making black' date=' women making white... I guess that could be true, but I don't think so. Men and women might use different weaves or performs things a different way (take gateways as an example) but I think the end result is much the same. (Take gateways for example).[/quote']

 

I don't know. I'd have to say that the black is made by men. I mean, look at everything man-made verses woman-made. An Aes Sedai opens herself up to the One Power. An Asha'man wrestles with it for control. One gateway is a hole punched in the Pattern, the other is an altering of the pattern itself.

 

Everything Aes Sedai and Asha'man are opposite sides of the same coin, so it just stands to reason that Aes Sedai make white cuendillar and Asha'man make black cuendillar. Do note that both male and female Aes Sedai were necessary to form the seals.

 

My two cents...