A question on strength and dexterity

[Durinax]

 

 

 

Oh, and... Nynaeve has now been drilled in dueling eh? Does she have unicorns and fairies too?

@Fionwe

 

I knew it was a mistake to engage again. Just whistle and back away slowly

 

you have to admit that she has more 'drilling' in duels than egwene has, especially after the talaan bits

 

An hour of channeling with Talaan(getting spanked once Talaan gets a basic understanding) on top of the one with Mogi that wasn't even a duel but a strength on strenght "arm wrestle" is "drilled in dueling" now?

 

its more than the other wondergirls get, and it is a start.

[fionwe1987]

 

 

 

 

Oh, and... Nynaeve has now been drilled in dueling eh? Does she have unicorns and fairies too?

@Fionwe

 

I knew it was a mistake to engage again. Just whistle and back away slowly

 

you have to admit that she has more 'drilling' in duels than egwene has, especially after the talaan bits

 

An hour of channeling with Talaan(getting spanked once Talaan gets a basic understanding) on top of the one with Mogi that wasn't even a duel but a strength on strenght "arm wrestle" is "drilled in dueling" now?

 

its more than the other wondergirls get, and it is a start.

 

What is that supposed to mean? Unlike Nynaeve who never tried, Egwene and Elayne did in fact get a lot more training in the Tower, and later too. Elayne was teaching the Sea Folk the same time Nynaeve was, and we never see her complain she's teaching stuff she doesn't know like Nynaeve does. 

[Nightstrike]

Nynave didn't do that, and we didn't see Elayne shielding Talaan or the other way round. It's would have made poor sport, since Talaan is so much stronger. It would be boring pretty quick, unless she formed a circle. Elayne wasn't mentioned in the connection (Nynave's thoughts about the days of training) when Nynaeve thought during the session.

[Durinax]

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, and... Nynaeve has now been drilled in dueling eh? Does she have unicorns and fairies too?

@Fionwe

 

I knew it was a mistake to engage again. Just whistle and back away slowly

 

you have to admit that she has more 'drilling' in duels than egwene has, especially after the talaan bits

 

An hour of channeling with Talaan(getting spanked once Talaan gets a basic understanding) on top of the one with Mogi that wasn't even a duel but a strength on strenght "arm wrestle" is "drilled in dueling" now?

 

its more than the other wondergirls get, and it is a start.

 

What is that supposed to mean? Unlike Nynaeve who never tried, Egwene and Elayne did in fact get a lot more training in the Tower, and later too. Elayne was teaching the Sea Folk the same time Nynaeve was, and we never see her complain she's teaching stuff she doesn't know like Nynaeve does. 

 

Well Elayne gets out of it a lot more because of other duties, I did forget that Elayne did do some training, we have heard nothing of the same type of incidents that happen to Nynaeve, which I am sure we would have seen them talk about. Afterall we see them discuss basically everything that frustrates them, the one that comes to mind is in Salidar when Elayne is getting frustrated with Salidar not sending her to Caemlyn or to Ebou Dar

[avernite]

 

 

 

Well, Rand did think about LTT's abilities to beat her at the very beginning of the fight (when he has just rescued Avi and Egwene from being squeezed out), which implies it's pre-toying.

 

No, he thinks of killing her at the end of the fight, when she was toying with him. In the beginning, she tries to kill him, and he was barely able to cut off her weaves to stop that. Then he tries to club her with Air. Then she attacks his connection to the source after she says he will "die slowly". And only then does LTT start giving suggestions, which Rand ignores.

 

Second, I don't see specific mention of the angreal in that fight. I know he had one at the time, but I'm not sure he was using it. Just Moiraines 'Unless Rand had an angreal too, she could crush him with that. Either he had one, or Lanfear was playing with him'. On which note, I do not know which of the two.

 

Its mentioned. I'm tired of people misremembering things. Rand specifically draws from his angreal, just before Lanfear finds hers, and he even marvels that her shields were still coming close to severing him even though he's using an angreal. What he doesn't know is that right around that time, Lanfear starts using the angreal she finds in the wagon bed too. If you don't remember, go read the book.

 

 

I did read the book. Specifically. (again, retranslated): 'Other thoughts, a fountain of thoughts, tried to come to the fore, about Ilyena, about Mierin, about how he could defeat her'. This is BEFORE Lanfear has channelled at Rand at all, and just after she knocked Aviendha and Egwene out.

 

I now do notice the Angreal is mentioned; it just isn't called angreal, which is why I missed it. Still, I find your way of talking rather annoying when we both miss a point in the same chapter. Though I suppose you can technically get tired of your own missremembering.

[Cybertrolloc]

Don't you guys have your own 25 page thread for throwing out of context quotes at each other? Shit that one up, not this one plz.

[Suttree]

Don't you guys have your own 25 page thread for throwing out of context quotes at each other? Shit that one up, not this one plz.

Ironically the OP asked for quotes only which I tried to point out in the fifth post in this thread after a certain someone who will remain nameless dove right in with opinion. Unfortunately things went quickly south from there...

 

 

[Entreri]

They are only equal in their abilities to create X number of weaves and the strongest woman can create any weave the strongest man can.

 

Greater strength  = larger area of affect/devastation, ability to punch through shields, greater range etc.  

 

This is why all the AS, AoL or otherwise covet sa'angreal and angreals and there is no mention or desire in the series for any ter'angreal that would increase one's dexterity.  Strength >> Dexterity.

 

Therefore the strongest of tiers of men will overpower the strongest of tiers women (e.g. Rahvin, Sammael vs. Lanfear, Rahvin stated either he or Sammael would overpower Lanfear).   Plus, if LTT had taken over in FoH, Lanfear would be toast, as indicated by Brandon....at that time Rand was nowhere near his full strength. 

 

Of course strength is not everything, 6'4" juiced up fighter vs. Anderson Silva (greatest fighter on Earth):

 

"Bonnar went the distance with Jon Jones, and he said to me after his fight with Anderson Silva, he was in total shock – not to mention the fact then we find out that he was on steroids," White said. "So he's on steroids, he's already the bigger, stronger guy. Anderson Silva had 36 days to prepare for that fight, and he f---ing annihilated him. So then after the fight, [bonnar] says to me, 'That guy lives in the matrix.' That's what he said. 'Nobody has ever done that to me in my life. I've never had that done to me. I felt like I've never fought a day in my life when I went in there with this guy.'

 

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum_framed.frame&thread=2099306&page=1

[Entreri]

 

 

 

Well, Rand did think about LTT's abilities to beat her at the very beginning of the fight (when he has just rescued Avi and Egwene from being squeezed out), which implies it's pre-toying.

 

No, he thinks of killing her at the end of the fight, when she was toying with him. In the beginning, she tries to kill him, and he was barely able to cut off her weaves to stop that. Then he tries to club her with Air. Then she attacks his connection to the source after she says he will "die slowly". And only then does LTT start giving suggestions, which Rand ignores.

 

Second, I don't see specific mention of the angreal in that fight. I know he had one at the time, but I'm not sure he was using it. Just Moiraines 'Unless Rand had an angreal too, she could crush him with that. Either he had one, or Lanfear was playing with him'. On which note, I do not know which of the two.

 

Its mentioned. I'm tired of people misremembering things. Rand specifically draws from his angreal, just before Lanfear finds hers, and he even marvels that her shields were still coming close to severing him even though he's using an angreal. What he doesn't know is that right around that time, Lanfear starts using the angreal she finds in the wagon bed too. If you don't remember, go read the book.

 

 

 

They were both using angreals.  However, Rand was nowhere near his full strength in the Power.  As from what I read, Brandon confirmed that LTT would have beaten her. 

 

Rahvin stated as a matter of fact that either her or Sammael would overwhelm Lanfear.   Someone like LTT or Ishamael would slap Lanfear around...man vs. child.

[John Everyman]

 

 

 

 

Well, Rand did think about LTT's abilities to beat her at the very beginning of the fight (when he has just rescued Avi and Egwene from being squeezed out), which implies it's pre-toying.

 

No, he thinks of killing her at the end of the fight, when she was toying with him. In the beginning, she tries to kill him, and he was barely able to cut off her weaves to stop that. Then he tries to club her with Air. Then she attacks his connection to the source after she says he will "die slowly". And only then does LTT start giving suggestions, which Rand ignores.

 

Second, I don't see specific mention of the angreal in that fight. I know he had one at the time, but I'm not sure he was using it. Just Moiraines 'Unless Rand had an angreal too, she could crush him with that. Either he had one, or Lanfear was playing with him'. On which note, I do not know which of the two.

 

Its mentioned. I'm tired of people misremembering things. Rand specifically draws from his angreal, just before Lanfear finds hers, and he even marvels that her shields were still coming close to severing him even though he's using an angreal. What he doesn't know is that right around that time, Lanfear starts using the angreal she finds in the wagon bed too. If you don't remember, go read the book.

 

 

 

They were both using angreals.  However, Rand was nowhere near his full strength in the Power.  As from what I read, Brandon confirmed that LTT would have beaten her. 

 

Rahvin stated as a matter of fact that either her or Sammael would overwhelm Lanfear.   Someone like LTT or Ishamael would slap Lanfear around...man vs. child.

 

 

Keep in mind the Forsaken always lie to themselves though in regards to comparing themselves to others.  I personally wouldn't be surprised if a contest between Rahvin and Lanfear would be much closer than he would like to admit (also worth noting that he can't see Lanfear's weaves, so he really has no basis of comparison other than what he's seen her achomplish). 

[Suttree]

As from what I read, Brandon confirmed that LTT would have beaten her. 

Quote? I've never seen it and would like to check it out, thanks Entreri...

[Barid Bel Medar]

 

As from what I read, Brandon confirmed that LTT would have beaten her. 

Quote? I've never seen it and would like to check it out, thanks Entreri...

 

 

I think this was one from RJ: 

 

 

 

INTERVIEW: Oct 11th, 2005

KOD Signing Report - Pary (Paraphrased)

 

ROBERT JORDAN

Re: Lanfear and Rand at the docks. She was just toying with him using her angreal, [while he used the little fat man]. They were pretty well matched. BUT, questioned whether Rand's estimation that he could end it if he wanted to, RJ said, yes. But of course, Rand couldn't.

 

[Entreri]

 

 

 

 

 

Well, Rand did think about LTT's abilities to beat her at the very beginning of the fight (when he has just rescued Avi and Egwene from being squeezed out), which implies it's pre-toying.

 

No, he thinks of killing her at the end of the fight, when she was toying with him. In the beginning, she tries to kill him, and he was barely able to cut off her weaves to stop that. Then he tries to club her with Air. Then she attacks his connection to the source after she says he will "die slowly". And only then does LTT start giving suggestions, which Rand ignores.

 

Second, I don't see specific mention of the angreal in that fight. I know he had one at the time, but I'm not sure he was using it. Just Moiraines 'Unless Rand had an angreal too, she could crush him with that. Either he had one, or Lanfear was playing with him'. On which note, I do not know which of the two.

 

Its mentioned. I'm tired of people misremembering things. Rand specifically draws from his angreal, just before Lanfear finds hers, and he even marvels that her shields were still coming close to severing him even though he's using an angreal. What he doesn't know is that right around that time, Lanfear starts using the angreal she finds in the wagon bed too. If you don't remember, go read the book.

 

 

 

They were both using angreals.  However, Rand was nowhere near his full strength in the Power.  As from what I read, Brandon confirmed that LTT would have beaten her. 

 

Rahvin stated as a matter of fact that either her or Sammael would overwhelm Lanfear.   Someone like LTT or Ishamael would slap Lanfear around...man vs. child.

 

 

Keep in mind the Forsaken always lie to themselves though in regards to comparing themselves to others.  I personally wouldn't be surprised if a contest between Rahvin and Lanfear would be much closer than he would like to admit (also worth noting that he can't see Lanfear's weaves, so he really has no basis of comparison other than what he's seen her achomplish). 

 

 

This has nothing to do with self delusion.  Self delusion would be if Rahvin stated, I could overwhelm her and/or Sammael could not.  Or just that Rahvin could overwhelm her.  

 

This strength superiority of the men is shown once again as RJ said (I thought it was Brandon, oops) that if Rand had let LTT take over, he would have won.   Bear in mind that Rand had not reached his full strength in FoH... and men go up in leaps...Moghdien was surprised that Rand could be as strong as Rahvin...given he has only been channeling for such a short time.  She of course was not aware of the angreal. 

 

If strength is akin to arm strength (as Asmodean) stated, the men are much stronger than the women.

 

Rahvin POV stated this as a matter-of-fact: "Could he (Rand...given he was at best half trained and has not gained his full strength)  have overwhelmed you face-to-face? Not that he himself could not, if it came to it, or Sammael, through Grandael would likely link with Lanfear if either men tried".

 

Rahvin would know how strong a woman can get and that Lanfear is at the female limit and their dexterity bonus.   I believe it was Messana who told Demandred that Cyndane was "weaker" than Lanfear.  Everyone was aware of Lanfear's strength and capabilties...in AoL nothing would have been hidden....it was a free and open society prior to the War.  

[Mr Ares]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, Rand did think about LTT's abilities to beat her at the very beginning of the fight (when he has just rescued Avi and Egwene from being squeezed out), which implies it's pre-toying.

 

No, he thinks of killing her at the end of the fight, when she was toying with him. In the beginning, she tries to kill him, and he was barely able to cut off her weaves to stop that. Then he tries to club her with Air. Then she attacks his connection to the source after she says he will "die slowly". And only then does LTT start giving suggestions, which Rand ignores.

 

Second, I don't see specific mention of the angreal in that fight. I know he had one at the time, but I'm not sure he was using it. Just Moiraines 'Unless Rand had an angreal too, she could crush him with that. Either he had one, or Lanfear was playing with him'. On which note, I do not know which of the two.

 

Its mentioned. I'm tired of people misremembering things. Rand specifically draws from his angreal, just before Lanfear finds hers, and he even marvels that her shields were still coming close to severing him even though he's using an angreal. What he doesn't know is that right around that time, Lanfear starts using the angreal she finds in the wagon bed too. If you don't remember, go read the book.

 

 

 

They were both using angreals.  However, Rand was nowhere near his full strength in the Power.  As from what I read, Brandon confirmed that LTT would have beaten her. 

 

Rahvin stated as a matter of fact that either her or Sammael would overwhelm Lanfear.   Someone like LTT or Ishamael would slap Lanfear around...man vs. child.

 

 

Keep in mind the Forsaken always lie to themselves though in regards to comparing themselves to others.  I personally wouldn't be surprised if a contest between Rahvin and Lanfear would be much closer than he would like to admit (also worth noting that he can't see Lanfear's weaves, so he really has no basis of comparison other than what he's seen her achomplish). 

 

 

This has nothing to do with self delusion.  Self delusion would be if Rahvin stated, I could overwhelm her and/or Sammael could not.  Or just that Rahvin could overwhelm her.  

 

 

This strength superiority of the men is shown once again as RJ said (I thought it was Brandon, oops) that if Rand had let LTT take over, he would have won.

No, that's not what he said. He said he could have won. He offered no guarantee of Rand's victory.

Rahvin POV stated this as a matter-of-fact: "Could he (Rand...given he was at best half trained and has not gained his full strength)  have overwhelmed you face-to-face? Not that he himself could not, if it came to it, or Sammael, through Grandael would likely link with Lanfear if either men tried".

 

Rahvin would know how strong a woman can get and that Lanfear is at the female limit and their dexterity bonus.   I believe it was Messana who told Demandred that Cyndane was "weaker" than Lanfear.  Everyone was aware of Lanfear's strength and capabilties...in AoL nothing would have been hidden....it was a free and open society prior to the War. 

But Rahvin is not incapable of lying to himself. Just because he thinks he could overwhelm Lanfear, doesn't mean it's true. Women can sense another woman's strength in the Power - men cannot do the same for women. He would not have a reliable gauge for how strong she was. He could make inferences. Really, your argument is that you have chosen to believe Rahvin. That's it. You accept his story, that he had strength enough to beat Lanfear, and from there invent your own tale, of greater strength being better than greater dexterity. It's pure invention. It always is.

[Nightstrike]

Dexterity was mentioned as a general rule of men and women. If they're the same sex, then training is more important in most cases (Talents or Weaknesses might be important too, but that may depend on what the weave is?). Having the element of surprise could also be important enough to decide the whole outcome all by itself.

 

Rahvin versus Lanfear could have gone either way if one had the element of surprise. I figure we should assume he believed he was stronger than her in raw OP strength, because otherwise it would be difficult to fool oneself into thinking one could take on someone that's most likely more dexterious. He could be wrong about that, too, since he's probably never been in a circle with her. Rahvin didn't impress all that much when Rand took him on, so I would place Lanfear above him in duelling ability, based on that.

[Entreri]

Males and females in AoL would have linked many many times (greatest wonders and all that)....they would have battled in the War. Certainly someone of Rahvin's knowledge would know how strong Lanfear is compared to the males. 

 

Even in current Randland, males and females have some awareness of each others strengths:  Nyaneve stated that she is stronger than Naeff.  Moghdien stated that men are stronger...at least Rahvin is according to Moghdien.   Etc. 

 

Thus, Rahvin would have a very good gauge on exactly how strong Lanfear was in the OP strength.  Based on OP strength, Rahvin or Sammael would overwhelm her.

 

As for dexterity bonus, it  has no impact on how powerful (breach capabilities etc) the Weave is...at best, dexterity is tertiary (After skill and strength in the OP).  I would assume any Forsaken with an above simian IQ would know about the female dexterity bonus and take that into account. 

 

As for Lanfear, she would also know exactly how strong a male can get as well..."LTT as strong as any".   She would also be aware of Sammael's and Rahvin's OP strength.

 

The Forsaken all crave for sa'angreals and angreals and have not shown or mentioned any interest in getting a ter'angreal that increases dexterity.   Not once have any of them stated anything about dexterity.  These are people who have been channeling for 300-400+ years. 

 

Thus strength being greater than dexterity is certainly not a pure invention.  Nobody has shown any interest in having a ter'angreal which increases dexterity...if dexterity was that important (like strength), it would have mentioned throughout the series and many ter'angreals would have been created and everybody would mention getting one. 

 

Rahvin or Sammael would defeat Lanfear in a face-to-face confrontation, barring balefire. 

[Suttree]

Nobody has shown any interest in having a ter'angreal which increases dexterity...if dexterity was that important (like strength), it would have mentioned throughout the series and many ter'angreals would have been created and everybody would mention getting one. 

More pure invention, we have no idea that such a thing is even possible. Then you make even more guesses predicated on that first assumption. Mr Ares is correct, it's astounding the leaps in logic you take sometimes when trying to back up your opinion. We get it, you agree with Rahvin, but we already have word of god saying they unreliable specifically relating to op strength...

 

Robert Jordan

RAFO. I don't go into that kind of thing. I know where they are. I also know they are highly unreliable. None of them is going to admit that anyone is that much stronger than they are. Even when you are inside their heads. Don't take everything they say as the absolute truth or unbiased observation.

 

We also have word of god that dexterity makes up for strength. So it's fine if you want to believe Rahvin, but even if he is right again some people have always placed far too much emphasis on strength. I'll go back to the quote from Luckers in the Nyn thread that really sums up all we need to know....

 

 

Luckers

Children often think strength is everything. It's the bluntest form of power. The most obvious. And, usually, the least effective.

[Nightstrike]

 

We also have word of god that dexterity makes up for strength. So it's fine if you want to believe Rahvin, but even if he is right again some people have always placed far too much emphasis on strength. I'll go back to the quote from Luckers in the Nyn thread that really sums up all we need to know....

 

Saying "men and women can do just about the same" ... Not that the strongest man and the strongest woman have exactly equal chances in a OP duel, or that a woman twice the strength of another woman will have to lose to the weaker one, regardless of whether we know if she's a duelling champ or not.

[Entreri]

 

Nobody has shown any interest in having a ter'angreal which increases dexterity...if dexterity was that important (like strength), it would have mentioned throughout the series and many ter'angreals would have been created and everybody would mention getting one. 

More pure invention, we have no idea that such a thing is even possible. Then you make even more guesses predicated on that first assumption. Mr Ares is correct, it's astounding the leaps in logic you take sometimes when trying to back up your opinion. We get it, you agree with Rahvin, but we already have word of god saying they unreliable specifically relating to op strength...

 

Robert Jordan

RAFO. I don't go into that kind of thing. I know where they are. I also know they are highly unreliable. None of them is going to admit that anyone is that much stronger than they are. Even when you are inside their heads. Don't take everything they say as the absolute truth or unbiased observation.

 

We also have word of god that dexterity makes up for strength. So it's fine if you want to believe Rahvin, but even if he is right again some people have always placed far too much emphasis on strength. I'll go back to the quote from Luckers in the Nyn thread that really sums up all we need to know....

 

 

Luckers

Children often think strength is everything. It's the bluntest form of power. The most obvious. And, usually, the least effective.

 

 

 

RJ does not state that everything the Forsaken says is a lie.  If they compare only THEMSELVES to other Forsaken, yes, they would let their biases show.  This applies to EVERYONE, real or fictional world.  Rahvin does not just compare himself, this is not ego driven. 

 

Plus, RJ said that if LTT had taken over, Lanfear would have lost at the docks.  

 

We know that Rand has not gained his full strength in book 5.  Think on this.  Rahvin would have been very likely been stronger in the Power than Rand at the docks.   In book 6, Rand's PoV states that he is getting stronger...Book 7, we seen an Asha'man stating that Sammael's weaving were as strong as Rands.  

 

If women's dexterity bonus was all that great, Lanfear=LTT and there is no way a much weaker Rand could defeat Lanfear at the docks, regardless of LTT's knowledge. 

 

 

You and your quotes, amusing...keep at it

[Suttree]

You and your quotes, amusing...keep at it

Whatever makes you feel better about your inventions, by all means hold to it. *chin up* As long as you keep inventing you might actually hit on one someday...

[Entreri]

 

You and your quotes, amusing...keep at it

Whatever makes you feel better about your inventions, by all means hold to it. *chin up* As long as you keep inventing you might actually hit on one someday...

 

 

You entertain me from time to time.   Good stuff.  

[Suttree]

 

 

You and your quotes, amusing...keep at it

Whatever makes you feel better about your inventions, by all means hold to it. *chin up* As long as you keep inventing you might actually hit on one someday...

 

 

You entertain me from time to time.   Good stuff.  

 

Nice one, it's always fun...

[Knivy]

I assumed the "strength vs dexterity" quote had to do with how they formed the weaves based on saidin and saidar, therefor it doesnt apply between two of the same gender.  Saidar weaves are less dependent on strength than saidin, but are more intensive in the "engineering" of their weaves to make up the difference.

 

Not saying dexterity doesnt mean anything, but that a weaker, much more dexterous woman cannot do essentially the same as a much stronger, less dexterous woman, and to the same degree.

[fionwe1987]

People forget that RJ said their greater dexterity allows women to not just do what men can, but to the same degree.

 

For those insisting Rahvin would beat Lanfear, please read what Moriding had to say about a Graendal vs. Sammael fight in aCoS. He was unsure who would win. And also realize Greandal had no trouble shielding Aran'gar (already holding the OP) and Delana at the same time in ToM. Totally bashes the idea that women can't match men with their dexterity,

[Mr Ares]

 

 

Nobody has shown any interest in having a ter'angreal which increases dexterity...if dexterity was that important (like strength), it would have mentioned throughout the series and many ter'angreals would have been created and everybody would mention getting one. 

More pure invention, we have no idea that such a thing is even possible. Then you make even more guesses predicated on that first assumption. Mr Ares is correct, it's astounding the leaps in logic you take sometimes when trying to back up your opinion. We get it, you agree with Rahvin, but we already have word of god saying they unreliable specifically relating to op strength...

 

Robert Jordan

RAFO. I don't go into that kind of thing. I know where they are. I also know they are highly unreliable. None of them is going to admit that anyone is that much stronger than they are. Even when you are inside their heads. Don't take everything they say as the absolute truth or unbiased observation.

 

We also have word of god that dexterity makes up for strength. So it's fine if you want to believe Rahvin, but even if he is right again some people have always placed far too much emphasis on strength. I'll go back to the quote from Luckers in the Nyn thread that really sums up all we need to know....

 

 

Luckers

Children often think strength is everything. It's the bluntest form of power. The most obvious. And, usually, the least effective.

 

 

 

RJ does not state that everything the Forsaken says is a lie.  If they compare only THEMSELVES to other Forsaken, yes, they would let their biases show.  This applies to EVERYONE, real or fictional world.  Rahvin does not just compare himself, this is not ego driven. 

Indeed. Look at the compelling evidence for it not being ego driven:... Well, I'm convinced. There's no possible way Rahvin could compare someone other than himself with Lanfear without being completely honest. It's not possible, for example, that Rahvin might know he is stronger than Sammael, and therefore highlighting that Sammael is stronger than Lanfear reinforces and exaggerates the supposed difference between himself and Lanfear. Such an explanation is clearly absurd, even as a hypothetical, and therefore your compellingly argued point has indeed convinced me that ego could play no part in this.

Plus, RJ said that if LTT had taken over, Lanfear would have lost at the docks.

Absolutely. RJ saying not quite that does indeed mean that he said exactly that. I find your unwillingness to let the facts of what RJ said get in the way of what he meant to be a refreshing change from the "evidence based" arguments of lesser minds. Acknowledging the possibility of Rand's victory is in no way different to a cast iron guarantee of that victory - saying Rand could have won does of course mean he absolutely would.