Two Rivers Tobacco Taxation

[Bromo Sapien]

How was it that the Andoran monarchy never taxed the Two Rivers when they had world renowned tobacco? And how were they so isolated when they had such a fantastic product? I would think that merchants and peddlers would be making an annual trip to stock up but Rand mentions that Padan Fain is the only peddler to regularly come through at the beginning of tEotW.

[Morden]

because they lacked localised organisation in the two rivers. in almost all the nations the only places that got taxed where near cities or ones which had some lord or lady who could do it. the TR had none.

 

Theres a difference between a peddler who was basically like a mobile supermarket equivalent and people coming to buy it in bulk, same as they did for wool etc, even people from Baerlon might make the journey then sell it on, Emonds Field was a small village, they wont attract massive amounts of trade.

[Aulduron]

Emonds Fielders probably take their wares to Tarens Ferry

[he who comes with a bong]

I dont want any Taxation on my Two Rivers Long Leaf.

[Olver_is_a_Forsaken]

I dont want any Taxation on my Two Rivers Long Leaf.

 

LOL, you should be in Colorado or Washington State not Ohio then.

[Olver_is_a_Forsaken]

Padan Fain is the only peddler to regularly come through

 

Peddler vs Merchant.

It's a different group of people who come in and buy Tabac and Wool from the Two Rivers people. Then, they spend their money on other things they need (such as things a peddler like Fain would sell). Fain doesn't buy tabac and wool in bulk. He takes mostly coin.

[he who comes with a bong]

I dont want any Taxation on my Two Rivers Long Leaf.

 

LOL, you should be in Colorado or Washington State not Ohio then.

 

Im planning a vacation out to see my uncle in Washington hahahah

[Durinax]

merchants do come through, it is just that it is not always the same ones. Thus the Fain is the only one to come regularily thing

[he who comes with a bong]

Yah that Two Rivers Leaf gets all over it seems. I think Lord Alegemar had some in the Eye of the World. I also do belive that Bashere had some at one time and the same with the guy from Arad Domain. can not remember how to spell his name right now. Seems to be that the tobacco out of the two rivers is prefered over any other type of tobacco. It would not suprise me that you could find it all the way in Shara.

[rand4747]

Its probably sourced basically specifically for those people who use it. so rare its not available at "stores" but from the merchants who serve the nobility and all.

[SylvanFox]

For the same reason that Vidalia onions are sold all over the nation, and everybody knows about them, but nobody goes to Vidalia (it's little hick town in Georgia). I'm not even sure some people are aware that Vidalia is a place. Could be the same with the tobacco, especially since it's called "Two Rivers." The merchants might actually know what's up with that, but others could just be thinking that it comes from any place between two rivers, or something like that.

[Bromo Sapien]

Still, if the Andoran monarchy knew about Two Rivers Tabac (which it obviously did), they would want to get in on it. I mean, I didn't know that Vidalia was a place but Georgia has set laws about the produce and named it the official state vegetable in 1990. If the Andoran queen saw a lot of the best tobacco coming out of an area anywhere near her realm's border, she should have investigated at the very least. If a lot of merchants knew to go to the Two Rivers (something we never heard anything about; Emond's Field and the Two Rivers in general are seen as incredibly isolated in tEotW), the Crown should know too.

[Morden]

Still, if the Andoran monarchy knew about Two Rivers Tabac (which it obviously did), they would want to get in on it. I mean, I didn't know that Vidalia was a place but Georgia has set laws about the produce and named it the official state vegetable in 1990. If the Andoran queen saw a lot of the best tobacco coming out of an area anywhere near her realm's border, she should have investigated at the very least. If a lot of merchants knew to go to the Two Rivers (something we never heard anything about; Emond's Field and the Two Rivers in general are seen as incredibly isolated in tEotW), the Crown should know too.

 

Andor is one of the few nations smart enough not to try and over-reach and claim more than they can actually handle, the two rivers was Andoran territory on the map but hadnt seen a tax collector in hundreds of years because its weeks away from Caemlyn, there are no nobility there to collect and send the money on in its stead and quite franky it was too sparcely populated to make it really worth while setting the infrastructure up.

 

Had Perrin not set up what was essentially a revolution against andoran control they would have ignored them for a few hundred more years. They had enough trouble keeping the territory they had because other nations kept trying to take pieces of land.

[Durinax]

Still, if the Andoran monarchy knew about Two Rivers Tabac (which it obviously did), they would want to get in on it. I mean, I didn't know that Vidalia was a place but Georgia has set laws about the produce and named it the official state vegetable in 1990. If the Andoran queen saw a lot of the best tobacco coming out of an area anywhere near her realm's border, she should have investigated at the very least. If a lot of merchants knew to go to the Two Rivers (something we never heard anything about; Emond's Field and the Two Rivers in general are seen as incredibly isolated in tEotW), the Crown should know too.

the crown knows, but what your forgetting is that the only way in or out of TR is essentially through Baerlon, so they do not actually have to be in TR's in order to tax tabac and other area specific wares

[Amandera]

This is actually mentioned in the books.

 

The region was hardly part of Andor at all, and had not been for generations. She and the last three queens before her had been hard pressed to maintain a modicum of control over the miners and smelters in the Mountains of Mist, and even that modicum would have been lost had there been any way to get the metals out save through the rest of Andor. A choice between holding the mines’ gold and iron and other metals and keeping the Two Rivers’ wool and tabac had not been difficult.

[TootThatHorn]

I dont want any Taxation on my Two Rivers Long Leaf.

 

LOL, you should be in Colorado or Washington State not Ohio then.

 

Im planning a vacation out to see my uncle in Washington hahahah

 

Yup, if you're on the olympic peninsula let's burn! But apparently be wary of DUI's with the way they wrote it.

 

I figure a pouch of tobacco really isn't alot so to have some here and there isn't that difficult, it doesn't need astronomical amounts to be produced to supply. Also, it may not be cost efficient for a peddler to buy it in bulk and drive it around. Like Aulduron said, it probably goes to Taren Ferry, and probably traded for another product.

[he who comes with a bong]

I dont want any Taxation on my Two Rivers Long Leaf.

 

LOL, you should be in Colorado or Washington State not Ohio then.

 

Im planning a vacation out to see my uncle in Washington hahahah

 

Yup, if you're on the olympic peninsula let's burn! But apparently be wary of DUI's with the way they wrote it.

 

I figure a pouch of tobacco really isn't alot so to have some here and there isn't that difficult, it doesn't need astronomical amounts to be produced to supply. Also, it may not be cost efficient for a peddler to buy it in bulk and drive it around. Like Aulduron said, it probably goes to Taren Ferry, and probably traded for another product.

 

My uncle lives in Bremerton lol right across the street from the sound. yah they are going to treat it like booze i guess.

[spoke]

How was it that the Andoran monarchy never taxed the Two Rivers when they had world renowned tobacco? And how were they so isolated when they had such a fantastic product? I would think that merchants and peddlers would be making an annual trip to stock up but Rand mentions that Padan Fain is the only peddler to regularly come through at the beginning of tEotW.

 

Basically, the merchants come down and regularly buy the Tobacco. Merchants are not peddlers. Merchants come and buy in bulk, probably wool also. Then leave. Peddlers carry lots of various little things like pins and buttons, pots and things like that. They live off of selling a variety to small towns. Padan fain is the only regular Peddler (one who deals with everyone), whereas the merchants will deal with the mayor and one or two individuals, and leave.

[Durinax]

it most certainly does not go to Taren Ferry, look at how they TR's sees them, not to mention for Devon Ride it would be very unpractical. THe merchants come and visit each town to do trade

[Aulduron]

Selling their wares in Tarens Ferry would be a very good reason for their attitudes toward them. When you spend your life raising your stock, you're usually going to have a low opinion of the buyers who try to get the lowest price they can.

 

I was just reading TDR, and Nyneave mentioned merchants coming from Baerlon.

[Orderofolde]

How was it that the Andoran monarchy never taxed the Two Rivers when they had world renowned tobacco? And how were they so isolated when they had such a fantastic product? I would think that merchants and peddlers would be making an annual trip to stock up but Rand mentions that Padan Fain is the only peddler to regularly come through at the beginning of tEotW.

No, it was mentioned a few times that the merchants came down each year to buy the wool and tabbac, once a year, and Fain was the only peddler to visit regularly once a year, the only one the village could rely on to bring in the fireworks for festival. Yet we have POV's from village council that they expected a peddler but didn't know who. Peddlers of this time period/era RJ modeled them after were not far travelers, they worked a circuit in a defined area, only seldomly changing up their routine.

 

Taren Ferry saw more peddlers and trade than Emond's Field. Watch Hill and maybe Emond's Field saw more peddlers than Devon Ride which was small and much further on, not worth a peddler's trip. Most of the villages were close to self-sufficient, and what was needed was traded with other villages. Most peddlers bore packs and walked, or pulled a cart laden with their items, though RJ has painted it to be one or two-horse teams pulling wagons laden and tied about with bundles, so you have merchants that bring down big items to trade for, books, pots, pans, iron and supplies for the forge and crafters, peddlers bring books and pins, needles, wax, thread, cloth in small amounts. Then there are the tinkers that come through and mend things to earn their living, trading their work mostly for food and so forth in trade. Barter drove trade more than money.

[Orderofolde]

In answer to the question, Andor was foolish to stop sending tax collectors. However, due to the remoteness of even Baerlon to Caemlyn, we see how long it takes our group with Moiraine and Lan to reach Baerlon. Over the years not every harvest is bountiful, sheep die from disease and wolves, worms and rot kill the crops. If there is nothing to collect in a year the crown still has to pay the guards to patrol the roads, the tax men, magistrates, etc. for the area. It became too costly and when other, larger sources of income were found elsewhere it became less of a priority. Perhaps the population of two towns spread across an area that is in effect its own kingdom, it's a lot to rule and administer. Look at how England cut away and granted independence to all its colonies, islands, etc. They hadn't even built a proper bridge at Taren Ferry, so there's the expense of crossing the Taren each time a taxman went to collect. Master Hightower charges a hefty price and I'm sure his ancestors did as well, considering how people in the Two Rivers view Taren folk as outsiders with their thieving ways. Add in the cost of travel, staying in an Inn each night, it just wasn't worth it, but little by little the villages grew into almost small towns, larger population, and now Elayne is interested in it.

[Aulduron]

Again, in TSR, Perrin thinks

 

The inn seldom had guests except when merchants came down from Baerlon to buy wool or tabac, or a monthly peddler when snow had not made the roads impassible..."

 

So peddlers come nearly every month, and they sell their wool and tabac to merchants that come from Baerlon. Does Baerlon get taxed?

[Durinax]

Again, in TSR, Perrin thinks

 

The inn seldom had guests except when merchants came down from Baerlon to buy wool or tabac, or a monthly peddler when snow had not made the roads impassible..."

 

So peddlers come nearly every month, and they sell their wool and tabac to merchants that come from Baerlon. Does Baerlon get taxed?

I would say so. since that is the closest beurocracy that would be where they would have the taxation for most of the western provinces I would think. (so it is a wonder to me why merchants and that don't try to bypass Baerlon)

[Viperswhip]

It's just an homage the Shire Leaf from Lord of the Rings, I doubt RJ put too much thought into it beyond that.