Question during re-read

[Michael Van Velsor]

I just finished re-reading ACoS and it came out to me different than the first time, Basically, we have don't really know that Sammael is dead, but in all the books even the forsaken believe he is dead. But in the chapter is seemed even Rand wasn't sure while he was still in SL.

 

Thoughts?

[TNine]

I just finished re-reading ACoS and it came out to me different than the first time, Basically, we have don't really know that Sammael is dead, but in all the books even the forsaken believe he is dead. But in the chapter is seemed even Rand wasn't sure while he was still in SL.

 

Thoughts?

I think Moriden confirmed that kill.

[herid]

RJ confirmed in several interviews that Sammael was killed by Mashadar.

 

 

Interview: Nov 27th, 2000

 

WH Signing Report - John Nowacki (Paraphrased)

John Nowacki

 

I haven't had a chance to review other posts—especially relating to other signings—over the past few days, so some of this may be old news already.

Robert Jordan

 

He said "Sammael is dead" and "Sammael is toast."

Tags

 

,

 

12

Interview: Dec 12th, 2000

 

CNN Chat (Verbatim)

Arsolos

 

It has been reported that you have confirmed that Sammael died at the end of A Crown of Swords. Could you confirm that you have said this and elaborate on whether Rand was correct?

Robert Jordan

 

Mashadar killed Sammael. Sammael is toast!

[Yosarian]

Interesting. The book left it unclear if it was Mashadar that killed him or if it was Rand lashing around wildly with balefire at the end there (or both).

 

Oh well, there goes my theory for why Sammael hasn't come back.

[Wool-headed lummox]

If the Mashadar killed Sammael, then he wasn't balefired. If he wasn't balefired, then why hasn't he been resurrected?

 

 

A wizard did it?

[Barid Bel Medar]

INTERVIEW: Nov 16th, 2009

TGS Signing Report - kcf (Paraphrased)

 

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

Brandon also said that the Dark One would have liked very much to transmigrate Sammael but didn't. Apparently, since he died by Mashadar, Sammael was either unable to be transmigrated or it would have been a very bad idea. Basically, Mashadar tainted Sammael's thread somehow.

 

INTERVIEW: Jan 18th, 2003

COT Signing Report - Imran Safdar (Paraphrased)

 

IMRAN SAFDAR

 

The first question was if Jordan intended to kill Sammael at the end of A Crown of Swords or if he decided later on that the character was no longer needed and was in fact dead.

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

Jordan responded that Sammael was dead as of the end of A Crown of Swords. Jordan felt that the character was a "louse" and didn't deserve a dramatic death a la Rahvin or Be'lal. He deserved a very vague death and was killed by something that he didn't pay attention to.

[Wool-headed lummox]

Brandon also said that the Dark One would have liked very much to transmigrate Sammael but didn't. Apparently, since he died by Mashadar, Sammael was either unable to be transmigrated or it would have been a very bad idea. Basically, Mashadar tainted Sammael's thread somehow.

That's something you put in the books.

 

Jordan responded that Sammael was dead as of the end of A Crown of Swords. Jordan felt that the character was a "louse" and didn't deserve a dramatic death a la Rahvin or Be'lal. He deserved a very vague death and was killed by something that he didn't pay attention to.

RJ's obnoxiously self-defeating strategy of undermining and invalidating his own work will confound me forever.

[Mr Ares]

Brandon also said that the Dark One would have liked very much to transmigrate Sammael but didn't. Apparently, since he died by Mashadar, Sammael was either unable to be transmigrated or it would have been a very bad idea. Basically, Mashadar tainted Sammael's thread somehow.

That's something you put in the books.

 

Jordan responded that Sammael was dead as of the end of A Crown of Swords. Jordan felt that the character was a "louse" and didn't deserve a dramatic death a la Rahvin or Be'lal. He deserved a very vague death and was killed by something that he didn't pay attention to.

RJ's obnoxiously self-defeating strategy of undermining and invalidating his own work will confound me forever.

That Sammael couldn't be brought back after being killed by something which hates the Shadow utterly is hardly a massive stretch. It was a reasonable inference people could and did draw, without needing BS to spell it out.

[Byzantine279]

Also, you could only put it in the book if people knew about it. Presumably no one did except maybe the Forsaken, and they don't discuss weaknesses very often (aka never).

[Morden]

The question is, does Mashadar kill, or does it twist and consume? The Maiden that got left behind survived for a good amount of time before Rand snapped her back to herself and then it killed her.

 

There might not be much left of him mentally if it consumed everything he was very slowly and painfully.

[Aulduron]

A wizard did it?

 

Nice Simpsons reference!

[jsbrads]

I am constantly angry with RJ (and to a lesser extent BS) for writing a story that gives one history and discussing with fans differently. If Sammael died by Mashadar, that belongs in the book. If you want to leave us guess, that's okay too, just don't go behind my back and tell other fans what you hid from me in the storyline. This happens a few times. I didn't hear from RJ, so when I hear of a Forsaken sending trolloc into the ways and demandred says "is it Sammael" I'm like "yeah, maybe"

[Suttree]

I am constantly angry with RJ (and to a lesser extent BS) for writing a story that gives one history and discussing with fans differently. If Sammael died by Mashadar, that belongs in the book. If you want to leave us guess, that's okay too, just don't go behind my back and tell other fans what you hid from me in the storyline.

 

Hid in the story line? As Mr Ares said above there was more than enough evidence to infer what happened and many fans did.

[Aver]

So I've been doing a reread of CoT and was surprised about the chapter with the super pack of dark hounds. 1 DH = 100 wolves+- in a fight (CoT pg. 225), I think a Myddraal = 20 wolves+- but I could be wrong, I'm thinking TDR on that statistic . The way new dark hounds are created is by consuming the souls of wolves near death. Perrin asks Elyas if a DH could consume a wolfbrother's soul and we don't get a definitive answer. I was thinking it would be really cool if either Perrin or Elyas had their soul consumed in AMoL.

 

Also Elyas points out that wolves stay away from DHs, and Masuri claims that she has never come across the super pack scent before. I think it might have been mentioned before but I also think it would be awesome if Isam in his spare time hunted wolves to be turned into DHs in order to build the super pack for the last battle since they are so dangerous. We know he is already the Hunter and this is a pack never before seen so maybe they are newly turned.

 

thoughts?

[Mr Ares]

I am constantly angry with RJ (and to a lesser extent BS) for writing a story that gives one history and discussing with fans differently. If Sammael died by Mashadar, that belongs in the book. If you want to leave us guess, that's okay too, just don't go behind my back and tell other fans what you hid from me in the storyline. This happens a few times. I didn't hear from RJ, so when I hear of a Forsaken sending trolloc into the ways and demandred says "is it Sammael" I'm like "yeah, maybe"

That Sammael was killed by Mashadar was in the books. There are a good number of things which are clear from the books that the author has merely expanded upon in interviews - Taimandred was shot down by the books, Mashadar killing Sammael was in the books, the Bowl of the Winds being responsible for the OP weirdness in the PoD was in the books. Yet all of these are things that the authors were asked about. I don't think it is unreasonable for an author to give confirmation on things that can be deduced from the books, nor to expand upon them in a way that characters in the books couldn't, or would seem forced if they did. It's also not unreasonable for them to give answers to questions which touch on background details which aren't necessarily relevant to the work. In terms of answers that RJ and BS have given that should have been in the books, there are very few that really fit - usually, the books give you all the answers you need. RJ and BS just give a few Easter Eggs. Although, if you don't like this, then I suggest steering clear of BS's work altogether. The annotations he provides - for Warbreaker in particular - give away a lot of information that isn't in the books.

[Balefire to da face!]

So I've been doing a reread of CoT and was surprised about the chapter with the super pack of dark hounds. 1 DH = 100 wolves+- in a fight (CoT pg. 225), I think a Myddraal = 20 wolves+- but I could be wrong, I'm thinking TDR on that statistic . The way new dark hounds are created is by consuming the souls of wolves near death. Perrin asks Elyas if a DH could consume a wolfbrother's soul and we don't get a definitive answer. I was thinking it would be really cool if either Perrin or Elyas had their soul consumed in AMoL.

 

Also Elyas points out that wolves stay away from DHs, and Masuri claims that she has never come across the super pack scent before. I think it might have been mentioned before but I also think it would be awesome if Isam in his spare time hunted wolves to be turned into DHs in order to build the super pack for the last battle since they are so dangerous. We know he is already the Hunter and this is a pack never before seen so maybe they are newly turned.

 

thoughts?

 

Your speculation sounds good to me. It seems fitting that Slayer and the Darkhound pack are connected since Perrin and Slayer now have a full blown rivalry.

 

Just thought I'd mention that after Perrin kills the Fade towards the beginning of TDR he senses another fleeing. A pack of 7 manages to drag it down, though only 1 wolf survives. So they don't go down easy, but it's not quite 20-1

 

Chapter 5

Nightmares Walking

Pg 79(paperback)