[Mik's Warp] - Demandred is.....*click to find out*

[herid]

　

good point about the rivers, yoniy0! It's certainly true that following Alguenya they would get to Cairhien, not to Andor. I checked on the map (should have done it earlier of course).

and they were going up Alguenya for sure

With slowly increasing speed the vessel glided upriver, curving toward the marsh-lined mouth of the Alguenya a few miles north of Maerone.

That does mean that Mat saw Harine with Moad and Amel was never on screen. But it also means he was never mentioned prior to KoD, right?

I don't believe Zaida's swordmaster is ever mentioned elsewhere. Is this right? This would disqualify him from being Demandred too.

Yep, I did an idealseek search and Zaida's swordmaster is never mentioned before KoD. So we have no indication that he was with her in Caemlyn. It's not even clear to me that Amel is Zaida's swordmaster.

It's only mentioned that he is her husband. As far as I can tell there is nothing to indicate that he is her swordmaster.

Like I told yon; you are wrong here. Zaida disembarked from the White Spray at Aringill (where Mat was watching from the other side; Maerone) and it sailed on to drop anchor at Cairhien where Harine and her crew are staying.

 

Sorry, you are quite right. This does make it Zaida and her swordmaster for sure.

 

 

I believe right now just about all the Seafolk ships are in Bandar Eban or close by, not in the south or anywhere else. They were sent there after the meeting with Logain to deliver food and got stuck because they couldn't unload. Zaida says in that scene that the entire Seafolk fleet would be needed for that task and this is not something she could have lied about in public. In that very same scene Zaida also wanted to send a lot of ships to various Amayar islands, the last place Demandred would want to send any troops.

'Just about all'...? Rand is frustrated about the number of Sea Folk ships that arrived at Bandar Eban (TGS chapters 5 & 29), because there are so few there. So sure, there is a Sea Folk force at Bandar Eban, with a valid excuse; the Dragon Reborn asked them to show up! And about Zaida wanting some fast ships send to the islands, because off the mass suicide of the Amayar is the only proper responce and logically, it shakes even her to her very core. It didn't happen though; a few ships were send to Bandar Eban,

It was a lot more than just a few ships. They arrived slower than Rand wanted but Harine explained the reasons. She knew how long the journey takes especially with the Seanchan in the way and she would not lie about it. The Seafolk are very touchy about such things. When Rand comes back to Ebu Dar there are lots of ships there.

The enormous docks of Bandar Eban were some of the most impressive in the world. They lay in a half-moon at the base of the city. Min was surprised to see how many ships were there, most of them Sea Folk vessels.

That's right, Min thought. Rand had them bring food to the city.

--TOM, ch 25

Moreover, in that scene Rand thinks that there should be enough food on the ships to feed the people of Bandar Eban even given the spoilage and from the conversation between Logain and Zaida we know that all the Seafolk ships were needed to manage that.

 

but the rest (and that's a huge number of ships) are docked all along the southern coast, save Ebou Dar.

what evidence do we have of that?

I don't recall any reference to huge numbers of Seafolk ships in the south after the meeting between Logain and Zaida.

 

Also, I think to make your theory really work Zaida has to be a DF for sure or else Demandred is complelling her. No Seafolk woman would stand for her husband ordering her in private about her public work. And she is still formally in charge. It's not war yet and she is making the decisions, not the master of the blades. That's very clear in the scene with Logain.

To make it work, I'm not sure Zaida needs to be a Friend of the Dark, as we saw with Morgase. But I do think it works better and there is a lot pointing in the direction that Zaida is a Darkfriend, both direct (her behaviour, bargains and actions) and indirect (her becomming Mistress of the Ships, Harine's odd drop off at Tear by Verin, and us readers knowing Harine will be Mistress of the Ships at one point in the future), but it would make this theory overly complicated, I was told. :) *pokes Barid Bel Medar*

 

I must say I really don't like the part of your theory involving Verin. It's not needed at all to make your theory work IMO. Verin has never done anything for shadow's benefit in the books as far as I can tell. Besides, it's very clear from the scene where she tells Cadsuane about bringing Harine to Tear that she did it on Cadsuane's instructions. The other things you quote about a huge number of Seafolk in Tear are quite suggestive without bringing Verin into it. But again, I don't think they are there any longer. No crowds of Seafolk in Tear are mentioned in TOM and tGS even though a number of scenes take place there. In fact, no Sea Folk at all are mentioned in any of those scenes, even in passing.

Lastly, there are a couple of quotes about Demandred that I view as clues to his location that don't mesh with him being Amel.

 

A bright vertical line appeared in the air, then widened as the gateway turned sideways to open long enough for Demandred to step through, giving them each a small bow. He was all in dark gray today, with a little pale lace at his neck. He adapted easily to the fashions and fabrics of this Age.

-LoC, Prologue

So Demandred easily adapts to local fashions and he is wearing lace on that day. There is another remark in KoD pointing in the same direction

 

Demandred's hook-nosed face carried an expression of anger that only made him more striking. Not enough to attract her, of course. He was far too dangerous for that. That well-fitted coat of bronze silk, with falls of snowy lace at neck and wrists, suited him, however. Mesaana also wore the style of this Age, a darker, pattern-embroidered bronze.

-KoD, Ch 3

This is nothing at all like what the Seafolk men wear, especially those of rank.

Just because not all the clues indicate he's Amel, doesn't mean he isn;t. Did we see Semirhage in her Truthspeaking outfit at meetings? Exactly.

This might indicate Demandred can be found somewhere else as well. Or it could be nothing more then a decoy. *shrugs*

You would rather have read that Demandred showed up bare chested, cleanly shaven, with tattoes on his hand indicating clan and rank? *snickers softly*

There are no quotes about Semirhage specifically mentioning that she wears local fashions. It's mentioned twice about Demandred. His location is a huge mystery with very few clues and RJ was clearly extremely careful with those. I'm quite sure that those clothing remarks are clues especially given that they are repeated. And I'm not saying I expected to have Demandred show up bare chested and with nose rings. I'm saying that those fashion remarks suggest that he is not among the Sea Folk at all. On the other hand, his clothing in those scenes does fit the south in general and Murandy in particular where they wear a lot of lace.

 

But I'm not rejecting your theory altogether. Far from it. I find a lot of the things you bring up quite compelling. And it's been mentioned by both RJ and BS that Demandred is involved in a number of places. And there is the comment by Sammael that Demandred always liked using proxies. He could easily be both Roedran and also have some plots concerning the Sea Folk even if he is not Amel.

The strongest argument against him being Amel is not anything I said but the quote by BS that Suttree brought up that some fans figured out Demandred's alter ego before and nobody ever suggested Amel.

[Suttree]

The are no quotes about Semirhage specifically mentioning that she wears local fashions. It's mentioned twice about Demandred. His location is a huge mystery with very few clues and RJ was clearly extremely careful with those. I'm quite sure that those clothing remarks are clues especially given that they are repeated. And I'm not saying I expected to have Demandred show up bare chested and with nose rings. I'm saying that those fashion remarks suggest that he is not among the Sea Folk at all. On the other hand, his clothing in those scenes does fit the south in general and Murandy in particular where they wear a lot of lace.

 

This...

[BFG]

I may be misunderstanding the argument about the ships (long day) but surely Sammaels comment about the ships was in CoS or earlier, but Logain doesn't give them the orders about shipping until WH (? - sometime after the cleansing). Not sure where this would place the ships at the time of the comment.

[Aulduron]

If the Sea Folk attack the Seanchan, under the command of a Forsaken, it will be a good reason for Matt to call in his debt the Windfinders owe him for setting them free. Their tradition of always sticking to a bargain, may outweigh their tradition of following the Master of Blades during war time.

[BFG]

If the Sea Folk attack the Seanchan, under the command of a Forsaken, it will be a good reason for Matt to call in his debt the Windfinders owe him for setting them free. Their tradition of always sticking to a bargain, may outweigh their tradition of following the Master of Blades during war time.

 

Could be, I always hoped it would be to hold off Renaile, after all

But one day, Master Cauthon, if it pleases the light, I think you will walk a rope for me

[Mik]

(only got like 30 minutes, so I'm going to rush this one.. sorry!)

 

accurate or not, i still must give mik a +over 9000 on this theory, it is awesome. i don't know if it is right, for me, it works just as well as any good theory i have seen so far. just makes me anticipate amol that much more.

 

EDIT: oh yeah, what a fighter, he is trying to go toe to toe when he has time to post lol.

Hahaha! Testy, you made me laugh twice now about your posts! Keep them comming. Can't get enough smiles around here! I'm glad you like it man. *shadow boxes* LOL.

 

EDIT2: btw if he is playing a woman's husband, he is likely using mask of mirrors to pull it off, so what he is wearing as demandred doesn't count for much. there are much better arguments here, but what he is wearing is a "meh" argument

You're totally right I think. But there's more on the clothing, that I'll post later to respond to herid and Suttree. I'm not sure if it helps my case to agree with a guy that advertises himself as a 'drunken fool' (third smile!), but yeah.

Anyway, thanks for the 9000 'plusses'. Where do I cash these things?

 

 

Even putting aside Demandred's involvement, I think that it has uncovered Zaida as a likely suspect to be a Darkfriend. So just for that, it is good. I doubt it will be Demandred, due to quotes by RJ and Brandon, but I would have liked for it to be so, it makes sense and would be a great twist.

Putting aside -your- involvement, eh?

Don't put Demandred aside so soon, Barid Bel Medar!

I need your help to secure your rule in this Thread! Step up, general!

Lay waste to these nay-sayers with Banfire!

WILL YOU UNLEASH THE BANFIRE IN MY SERVICE, DEMANDRED?

 

Jokes aside, I think I did find a hidden army steering their ships to harbours 'in the south' the exact moment when Sammael mentions seeing Demandreds handywork to Graendal and I've shown how a certain station among that army fits Demandreds his most famous words like a glove. On top of that the very name of that position 'Master of the Blades' also fits very well with other theories of mine concerning top leadership of the Chosen come the Last Day. (Asha'm'hael..anyone??)

 

 

Zaida wasn't in touch with Harine until TGS/ToM, so clearly Amel couldn't have kept tabs on Rand by virtue of the bargain. Therefore, Aran'gar's remark about his being appointed to keep an eye on him is difficult to apply to an Amel alter-ego.

As FanoLan noted, we see Demandred checking out the Royal Palace in tar a few chapters after Zaida and her retinue arrive in Caemlyn. I never said that Amel 'kept tabs on Rand by virtue of the Bargain'. That's kind of a nice strawman argument to tear down easily. I never said anything about Demandred keeping tabs. Doesn't mean that Demandred can't from where he's operating. *shrugs*

You didn't say so, FanoLan did; I simply found it prudent to comment on every argument made in support of your case instead of leaving holes in mine. I'm sorry if that gave you the impression I was putting words in your mouth.

Yeah. No problem, no problem ofcourse. I was mostly focussing more on the underlined part. No harm done, yon.

And if I was too direct, then I apologize; I had a quazillion quotes to adress. Just wanted to point out that the Bargains were in no way, shape or form a means to keep tabs on Rand, but that they probably were partly Shadow-inspired. The square mile (I think it was) of Andoran soil near the sea under Sea Folk for instance. Reeks of a smart move by a certain top general of the Shadow. That's all.

 

 

I promise to read all the posts in this thread tomorrow, the opening post was extraordinarily well laid out, but I'm too tired to do it right now.

Thank you.

 

I just had to point out that there's a strong piece of supporting evidence I didn't notice being discussed: when Rand asked the Aelfinn how to win at TG (and survive), the slightly cryptic answer was "The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one. The two must be as one. If you would live, you must die." One can assume that they are answering his conditions in order, in other words "the two must be as one" bit refers only to winning the Last Battle and is indifferent to Rand's survival.

 

It's possible to read this as a general call for unity, I guess, but it could also describe TG as a war with two fronts, and the Light-side forces needing to cluster up into two military/administrative units. The Blight / Shayol Ghul is one obvious theater, but if that were the only place fighting were to happen why the need for the N/E and S/W division? I always guessed it was a concession to the Seanchan to get them on board, however if Demandred pulls off Randland's greatest envelopment with armadas of Sea Folk ships dropping off armies on the southern coast, it suddenly makes perfect sense why you'd need two different military coalitions. Mat seems on a trajectory to lead the Seanchan armies some day, while Perrin has been developing the skills and connections that suggest to me he'll be left in charge up north by Rand - and if you choose to go into it, there's more to mine from "the two must be as one" in the swirling-color connection there as well.

 

So yeah, I like this theory, although I still feel confident that Dem is Roedran (even if it turns out he's also Master of the Blades,) for reasons that have to do with the whole Hinderstap arc in TGS.

Makes sense. I'm convinced that RJ will make sure to use the prophesies / answers / viewings that deal with Tarmon Gai'don just so, that they will be true for more then one occasion. Sure, they only need to happen once, but why waste a perfectly good and vague enough prophesy three times when you can? It might play out like you suggest and I think it makes sense, but it's impossible to verify up front.

 

 

Great theory, best I've read in a while. Some quick thoughts:

 

Harine din Togara Two Winds –and her (probably darkfriend) Swordmaster Moad- get derailed by Verin (a known darkfriend that didn’t want to blow her cover at that point) by bringing them to Tear, instead of Illian,

Um, Verin being a darkfriend is one of the biggest spoilers in the series IMO. Not that I think there's anyone on the forums now that hasn't read that far, but still - this is general discussion.

Thanks for the compliment. About Verin; I don't think it's considered to spoil anything anymore, these days. The people here all know about it now.

 

Plus, with every other major faction besides Aiel having been corrupted by Forsaken in some way, it would be odd to leave the only signifacant (non Seanchan) naval force forsaken free. (The Aiel, by their customs, would seemingly be rather hard to corrupt and rule, plus Sammael at least did have some interaction with the Shaido, if that counts as forsaken interference.) And it makes a nice triumverate with Messana and Semi, White Tower, Seanchan and Sea Folk. Would have been a heck of a hard 1-2-3 punch for the good guys to overcome.

Asmodean painted the dragons on Couladin's arms, so that instigated the Shaido war by proclaiming him as a false Car'a'carn

Good point. All it took was one over-ambitious clan-chief-wannabee and two fancy tattoes to have a whole clan run rampant for a few books. The more strict the rules of the society, the better can be predicted how they will react and the more easy it is to secretly influence that soiecty.

 

 

Here you go...

 

Interview: Sep 22nd, 2012

Brandon Sanderson

Here's the thing: Robert Jordan said that Demandred did not appear until Knife of Dreams, and so I have been very hesitant about saying whether or not he'd appeared—I think I've said whether or not he'd appeared on screen in my books—but the reason is, if I give you a yes or no—if he's appeared, yes or no—then that narrows it down to like just a few characters, that are introduced in mine, so I've been very hesitant about answering that. Demandred does have an alter ego. He has been up to some very cool things. There are people online who have guessed correctly. And so, I will say that much.

Again I have never seen Amel or the Sea Folk mentioned, I highly doubt someone who spends considerably less time on the sites would have either.

That, right there, is a problem. Especially because BS said it just a few months ago. And yeah.. I did some searching as well. I do think this theory is new. :/

I dunno Sut. I can't find a decent argument to tear it up (like I think I can with RJ's Taim quotes). A long shot is that BS is referring to just 'some very cool things' Demandred has been up to and that there are people around who guessed those correctly. Meh. I don't like it, but it's all I got and I'm liking the theory too much to let it slide. Good point though, although I'd rather had seen one from the books or RJ himself (no offence to BS, but yeah... RJ was the better (and only true) Aes Sedai)

*shakes fist at Suttree*

When he says "there are people who have guessed correctly", he means "they have found his identity" but not "they have found every identity". Just becusae Roedred or another theory is correct, doesn't mean this one is incorrect. (How's that for an Aes Sedai answer :D ) I agree with some of the others that he can have more than one hiding place, and more than one army - since Morridin surely does (granted, he's had 3000 years to do it).

By the looks of that quote, Demandred appears to have 'an alter ego'. It looks like just one. I'm not sure if RJ (or BS) would ever let it slip if there were more then one "alter ego's", so it's possible you're right, but it's unlikely, I think.

 

 

Oh, BTW, Mik is right that whoever that Wavemistress has been, she left the ship before it sailed on to Cairhien. Why Zaida would choose to march to Caemlyn from Aringill I don't know, but it seems very unlikely that the one Mat saw was going anywhere else but Caemlyn.

Maybe because that's where Demandred could -somehow- keep that eye on Rand?

It's such an odd, odd move for a Wavemistress to make; leave your own ship / crew / clan behind, to join another clan / ship and then travel by horse and stay on land in an inn of all places, for so long.

Compare it to an Aiel Clan chief that -all by himself-, swims to a ship a few miles out the coast and stays on that ship that travels on open sea -in the most luxurious cabin, mind you- to speak to a man he never get's to speak....but he starts meddling in other affairs, but keeps the same reason for staying -of wanting to speak to a certain man- as an excuse, while that man already spoke and made agreements with another clan chief.... doh.

If we saw that happening, everyone would be going like 'nowwaitaminute!!!', because we've spend so much reading-time among the Aiel. I think this is Sea Folk equivalent.

Like Mat thinks; 'oddness!'

Darkfriend alarm-bells! :P

 

 

(edit: raincheck on all posts after yoniy0...out of time :/)

[fuzz1717]

Wow, I'm impressed. I've been lurking quite a few of the "Where's Demandred" forums (although I can't say I'm up there with the mods... or suttree or well probably most of you guys) and I do have to say this makes more sense than most.

 

RJ and BrS have to balance out the DFs among all the different factions. There have been proven DFs in everything I can think of, bar the Two Rivers (which, come on, would never really happen, as its Rand's home town) and now the Seafolk, unless I'm missing something obvious (yes, the Aiel, but there are the Aiel looking people at the end of ToM). As a writer, you can't make the DFs all concentrated in one area, you have to spread them out so that it appears to the reader that the evil has spread throughout the land, distributing itself more or less evenly.

 

If nothing else, I like the idea that Zaida is a DF, that would make a ton of sense. But the whole argument you presented was well thought out, well researched, and in general well put together. It flowed, made sense, and now I'm gonna have to do a Seafolk oriented re-read to see what I can find.

 

All in all, good job MiK. *claps*

[FarShainMael]

The are no quotes about Semirhage specifically mentioning that she wears local fashions. It's mentioned twice about Demandred. His location is a huge mystery with very few clues and RJ was clearly extremely careful with those. I'm quite sure that those clothing remarks are clues especially given that they are repeated. And I'm not saying I expected to have Demandred show up bare chested and with nose rings. I'm saying that those fashion remarks suggest that he is not among the Sea Folk at all. On the other hand, his clothing in those scenes does fit the south in general and Murandy in particular where they wear a lot of lace.

 

This...

 

I wonder if Demandred is any good at the Mirror of Mists..

[herid]

The are no quotes about Semirhage specifically mentioning that she wears local fashions. It's mentioned twice about Demandred. His location is a huge mystery with very few clues and RJ was clearly extremely careful with those. I'm quite sure that those clothing remarks are clues especially given that they are repeated. And I'm not saying I expected to have Demandred show up bare chested and with nose rings. I'm saying that those fashion remarks suggest that he is not among the Sea Folk at all. On the other hand, his clothing in those scenes does fit the south in general and Murandy in particular where they wear a lot of lace.

 

This...

 

I wonder if Demandred is any good at the Mirror of Mists..

and what if he is? it makes zero difference to my argument. even if he uses MoM to impersonate Amel why would he dress as a Murandian when meeting the other Forsaken? you can explain it away of course by saying that he is hiding his location from them but I don't believe that's what's happening here. If that were the case RJ wouldn't put in twice the remark that Demandred adapts to local fashions. I'm sure it's a clue to the readers and a difficult one to notice at that. there is no need for extra smoke screens or red herrings with Demandred from the writer's perspective. he is hard enough to locate as it is.

 

And of course, there are all those other clues that point to Roedran which I haven't even mentioned. The strongest is not the clothing thing but the one that terez discovered which is that Roedran is the only suspect who exhibited a marked change in behavior recently. This is a major sign that somebody else has taken his place. This should be true with anybody Demondred is pretending to be. Yet, nothing like that is ever mentioned about Amel, Timolan or whoever. Roedran, who used to be a good for nothing, unambitious, irresponsible wastrel all of a sudden got his act together and managed to unify Murandy which nobody from Siuan and Bryne to master Norry thought was remotely possible. This is why my money is still firmly on him.

[ozimandias]

...How do you delete a post?

In any case, you mentioned what I wanted to point out, which was that Demandred is clever, and the other forsaken know very well that he adapts to local fashions. It seems unlikely to me that he would come to a meeting with other forsaken dressed in the fashion of the place he was actually located. If anything it would be a clue that wherever he actually is, they dress nothing like the way he chooses to appear.

[herid]

as I said, this would be a completely unnecessary extra smoke screen by RJ. there was no need to mention the fact that Demandred adapts to local fashions even once, much less twice. Just skip the whole subject altogether. As I said, RJ was extremely careful and deliberate with any Demandred clues. This would have been an entirely unneeded red herring which nobody even noticed (I believe I was the first to bring it up).

[ozimandias]

as I said, this would be a completely unnecessary extra smoke screen by RJ. there was no need to mention the fact that Demandred adapts to local fashions even once, much less twice. Just skip the whole subject altogether. As I said, RJ was extremely careful and deliberate with any Demandred clues. This would have been an entirely unneeded red herring which nobody even noticed (I believe I was the first to bring it up).

Wouldn't it be pretty against Demandred's character to give such an obvious clue to the other forsaken? By the way I am not saying it is obvious TO US, (and good on you for seeing it and bringing it up!...) but it is clearly obvious to the Forsaken. The fact that multiple forsaken bring it up means that it is a pretty well known fact about Demandred, and thus an easy way to mislead them as to his whereabouts. In any case, I don't see it as a red herring, I see it as supporting evidence that the style wherever he is looks nothing like what he presents himself as to the other forsaken, like, perhaps, the Atha'an Miere.

 

But I do understand your point of RJ being deliberate with Demandred clues, and see that you are very attached to the idea of that being a vital clue, so I can 'skip the subject' from here on if you don't want to talk about it. It seems against Demandred's character.. If he left such obvious clues for the other Forsaken(we can practically see them figuring out where he is based on the way he dresses), they and we would have found out what he was doing long ago.

[Mik]

(only got like 30 minutes, so I'm going to rush this one.. sorry!)

 

EDIT2: btw if he is playing a woman's husband, he is likely using mask of mirrors to pull it off, so what he is wearing as demandred doesn't count for much. there are much better arguments here, but what he is wearing is a "meh" argument

You're totally right I think. But there's more on the clothing, that I'll post later to respond to herid and Suttree.

Oh, that's so great! Didn't have the time left yesterday, but ozimandias has made the point I wanted to make later to herid and Suttree yesterday.

Thanks ozi! A very good point too, I think.

 

as I said, this would be a completely unnecessary extra smoke screen by RJ. there was no need to mention the fact that Demandred adapts to local fashions even once, much less twice. Just skip the whole subject altogether. As I said, RJ was extremely careful and deliberate with any Demandred clues. This would have been an entirely unneeded red herring which nobody even noticed (I believe I was the first to bring it up).

Wouldn't it be pretty against Demandred's character to give such an obvious clue to the other forsaken? By the way I am not saying it is obvious TO US, (and good on you for seeing it and bringing it up!...) but it is clearly obvious to the Forsaken. The fact that multiple forsaken bring it up means that it is a pretty well known fact about Demandred, and thus an easy way to mislead them as to his whereabouts. In any case, I don't see it as a red herring, I see it as supporting evidence that the style wherever he is looks nothing like what he presents himself as to the other forsaken, like, perhaps, the Atha'an Miere.

 

But I do understand your point of RJ being deliberate with Demandred clues, and see that you are very attached to the idea of that being a vital clue, so I can 'skip the subject' from here on if you don't want to talk about it. It seems against Demandred's character.. If he left such obvious clues for the other Forsaken(we can practically see them figuring out where he is based on the way he dresses), they and we would have found out what he was doing long ago.

I agree totally with the fact that it's against his character. I'd like to go a little further then ozi; I think it's actually idiotic to wear clothing from the place where you are hiding, when you want to keep your hiding place hidden!

Would you wear a Zulu outfit to a meeting of people when you're trying to keep your location -a Zulu village- hidden from the very people attending that meeting? It's one of the first things you change when you want to hide; appearance and local dress-code! Since Demandred is keeping the Chosen that aren't part of his alliance in the dark, how stupid would it be to give a clear -and very obvious- hint by what you're wearing? And since Graendal notices the clothing, it's -also- very obvious to us readers (the part where I actually disagree with ozimandias) and not just to a Chosen like Graendal.

What should make you really wonder herid, is why Graendal can't find Demandred despite that clothing, if it's such a good hint! She obviously takes note of it and yet it's clearly frustrating Graendal grealty she can't find Demandred nor Semirhage.

Maybe RJ's real hint here, is that Graendal can't find Demandred so the logical conclusion to us readers should be that the hints she picked up are actually no good!

That's not a wierd conclusion at all, given the fact Graendal is dying to know where Semi and Demi are and Sammael actually orders her to find them for him when she's firmly under his thumb.

 

 

　

good point about the rivers, yoniy0! It's certainly true that following Alguenya they would get to Cairhien, not to Andor. I checked on the map (should have done it earlier of course).

and they were going up Alguenya for sure

With slowly increasing speed the vessel glided upriver, curving toward the marsh-lined mouth of the Alguenya a few miles north of Maerone.

That does mean that Mat saw Harine with Moad and Amel was never on screen. But it also means he was never mentioned prior to KoD, right?

I don't believe Zaida's swordmaster is ever mentioned elsewhere. Is this right? This would disqualify him from being Demandred too.

Yep, I did an idealseek search and Zaida's swordmaster is never mentioned before KoD. So we have no indication that he was with her in Caemlyn. It's not even clear to me that Amel is Zaida's swordmaster.

It's only mentioned that he is her husband. As far as I can tell there is nothing to indicate that he is her swordmaster.

Like I told yon; you are wrong here. Zaida disembarked from the White Spray at Aringill (where Mat was watching from the other side; Maerone) and it sailed on to drop anchor at Cairhien where Harine and her crew are staying.

 

Sorry, you are quite right. This does make it Zaida and her swordmaster for sure.

NP. The early Sea Folk bits that matter are kept vague (no names...not much info.. far apart in the books... etc). It might just be intentional. I had to look up a fair bit before I could post this theory. Sea Folk weren't exactly a strong point before this theory. I think noone was a 'Sea Folk

specialist' and for obvious reasons. :)

 

I believe right now just about all the Seafolk ships are in Bandar Eban or close by, not in the south or anywhere else. They were sent there after the meeting with Logain to deliver food and got stuck because they couldn't unload. Zaida says in that scene that the entire Seafolk fleet would be needed for that task and this is not something she could have lied about in public. In that very same scene Zaida also wanted to send a lot of ships to various Amayar islands, the last place Demandred would want to send any troops.

'Just about all'...? Rand is frustrated about the number of Sea Folk ships that arrived at Bandar Eban (TGS chapters 5 & 29), because there are so few there. So sure, there is a Sea Folk force at Bandar Eban, with a valid excuse; the Dragon Reborn asked them to show up! And about Zaida wanting some fast ships send to the islands, because off the mass suicide of the Amayar is the only proper responce and logically, it shakes even her to her very core. It didn't happen though; a few ships were send to Bandar Eban,

It was a lot more than just a few ships. They arrived slower than Rand wanted but Harine explained the reasons. She knew how long the journey takes especially with the Seanchan in the way and she would not lie about it. The Seafolk are very touchy about such things. When Rand comes back to Ebu Dar there are lots of ships there.

The enormous docks of Bandar Eban were some of the most impressive in the world. They lay in a half-moon at the base of the city. Min was surprised to see how many ships were there, most of them Sea Folk vessels.

That's right, Min thought. Rand had them bring food to the city.

--TOM, ch 25

Moreover, in that scene Rand thinks that there should be enough food on the ships to feed the people of Bandar Eban even given the spoilage and from the conversation between Logain and Zaida we know that all the Seafolk ships were needed to manage that.

Did some reading and I think the mistake is mine here. Indeed, there is a vast fleet in Bandar Eban now and bigger then what was there in TGS and then I thought would be there. So I stand corrected here; it's larger then I thought.

 

Still, given your own quote, do you honestly think all of the Sea Folk vessels are there...???

I don't think they even fit all in there.... especially when the quote reads that 'most of the vesels were Sea Folk'. There's even room for other ships. Don't you think that what's described as 'docks that were some of the most impressive in the world', actually means they're of a size with Ebou Dar, Tear and Illian?

 

but the rest (and that's a huge number of ships) are docked all along the southern coast, save Ebou Dar.

what evidence do we have of that?

I don't recall any reference to huge numbers of Seafolk ships in the south after the meeting between Logain and Zaida.

Again, I went by what I knew from TGS on the number of ships that actually showed up in Bandar Eban. It was assumption, because we heard so little about the Sea Folk.The thing that probably irks me when I'm trying to picture the whole Sea Folk fleet @ Bandar Eban, is that I think it's just does not fit, size wise.

At one point in the story, there was an impressive Sea Folk fleet in Ebou Dar, Tear and Illian. Even with a part of the Ebou Dar fleet destroyed (and a fair number of Seanchan ships commandeered by the Sea Folk in the 'Escape'), just looking at the maps of the cities (and their huge docks/ bays and the quotes that go with them), I think I have trouble picturing all that at Bandar Eban. No hard proof. You got me there!

 

Regardless of where the Sea Folk fleet(s) actually are stationed right now, I don't think this harms my theory. It just means that if this theory proves to be right, that what I thought would be the tactic, could be wrong. On the other hand... there is that strip of land that the Sea Folk made part of their Bargain... meh. RAFO!

 

Also, I think to make your theory really work Zaida has to be a DF for sure or else Demandred is complelling her. No Seafolk woman would stand for her husband ordering her in private about her public work. And she is still formally in charge. It's not war yet and she is making the decisions, not the master of the blades. That's very clear in the scene with Logain.

To make it work, I'm not sure Zaida needs to be a Friend of the Dark, as we saw with Morgase. But I do think it works better and there is a lot pointing in the direction that Zaida is a Darkfriend, both direct (her behaviour, bargains and actions) and indirect (her becomming Mistress of the Ships, Harine's odd drop off at Tear by Verin, and us readers knowing Harine will be Mistress of the Ships at one point in the future), but it would make this theory overly complicated, I was told. :) *pokes Barid Bel Medar*

I must say I really don't like the part of your theory involving Verin. It's not needed at all to make your theory work IMO. Verin has never done anything for shadow's benefit in the books as far as I can tell. Besides, it's very clear from the scene where she tells Cadsuane about bringing Harine to Tear that she did it on Cadsuane's instructions. The other things you quote about a huge number of Seafolk in Tear are quite suggestive without bringing Verin into it. But again, I don't think they are there any longer. No crowds of Seafolk in Tear are mentioned in TOM and tGS even though a number of scenes take place there. In fact, no Sea Folk at all are mentioned in any of those scenes, even in passing.

Harine being delayed by having to go by ship to Illian gave Zaida (or the one behind her) a lot more time to make sure Zaida would be appointed as the Mistress of the Ships. I found it surprising to see it was a known Darkfriend -Verin- who brought them to Tear.

You're totally wrong about Verin 'never having done anything for shadow's benefit in the books'. She even admits to Egwene that 'she has done enough [Evil] to require a special kind of redemption'. She even mentions being visited by Mesaana twice. I don't think the Chosen come for a cup of tea; they give specific orders and they demand obiedience on the penalty of a painful death. Mesaana's visit might even have a relation with Verin dropping Harine of in Tear, since she's part of the alliance with Demandred.

Verin did evil.... lot's of it.. she had to, to be able to study 'the beast from the inside'; she had to do evil, to study evil. That simple.

 

And herid; I don't like this bit of info either, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be said. I agree the theory doesn't need it persé, in the same way that I don't think Zaida needs to be a Friend of the Dark persé for the thoery to work. Still, there are lot's of clues leading in that direction...and a known Darkfriend giving someone who was need to determine who would become Mistress of the Ships -Harine, one of the Twelve- a detour, is just one of those clues, I think. I'll drop the discussion about it and willing to concede the point (if it needs any conceding..), for the simple fact it doesn't matter much.

 

 

The are no quotes about Semirhage specifically mentioning that she wears local fashions. It's mentioned twice about Demandred. His location is a huge mystery with very few clues and RJ was clearly extremely careful with those. I'm quite sure that those clothing remarks are clues especially given that they are repeated. And I'm not saying I expected to have Demandred show up bare chested and with nose rings. I'm saying that those fashion remarks suggest that he is not among the Sea Folk at all. On the other hand, his clothing in those scenes does fit the south in general and Murandy in particular where they wear a lot of lace.

This...

I think it's a point in my favour.

*points to top of post* ^ 'This....'

 

 

I may be misunderstanding the argument about the ships (long day) but surely Sammaels comment about the ships was in CoS or earlier, but Logain doesn't give them the orders about shipping until WH (? - sometime after the cleansing). Not sure where this would place the ships at the time of the comment.

Sammael said it early LoC. It could matter a bit, because if Demandred is among the Sea Folk, you could argue Logain's demands concerning the bargain with the Coramoor throw a spanner in Demandreds wheels. I doubt it matters, since the Sea Folk know Travelling and they own strip(s?) of land in Andor at the least. As long as Demandreds 'rule is secure' (and it is, given my theory) the actual position might not be such a big deal; Travelling and fast ships, that are always in a big city where none of the major forces of the Light are stationed.

 

 

If the Sea Folk attack the Seanchan, under the command of a Forsaken, it will be a good reason for Matt to call in his debt the Windfinders owe him for setting them free. Their tradition of always sticking to a bargain, may outweigh their tradition of following the Master of Blades during war time.

 

Could be, I always hoped it would be to hold off Renaile, after all

But one day, Master Cauthon, if it pleases the light, I think you will walk a rope for me

Haha. That was actually the first thing I thought off too when I read Aulduron's post! My guess is both Renaille and Harine are going to play a major role -regardless of how it all plays out- when the Sea Folk shit is hitting the fan.

 

 

Wow, I'm impressed. I've been lurking quite a few of the "Where's Demandred" forums (although I can't say I'm up there with the mods... or suttree or well probably most of you guys) and I do have to say this makes more sense than most.

 

RJ and BrS have to balance out the DFs among all the different factions. There have been proven DFs in everything I can think of, bar the Two Rivers (which, come on, would never really happen, as its Rand's home town) and now the Seafolk, unless I'm missing something obvious (yes, the Aiel, but there are the Aiel looking people at the end of ToM). As a writer, you can't make the DFs all concentrated in one area, you have to spread them out so that it appears to the reader that the evil has spread throughout the land, distributing itself more or less evenly.

 

If nothing else, I like the idea that Zaida is a DF, that would make a ton of sense. But the whole argument you presented was well thought out, well researched, and in general well put together. It flowed, made sense, and now I'm gonna have to do a Seafolk oriented re-read to see what I can find.

 

All in all, good job MiK. *claps*

Thanks!

[BFG]

I may be misunderstanding the argument about the ships (long day) but surely Sammaels comment about the ships was in CoS or earlier, but Logain doesn't give them the orders about shipping until WH (? - sometime after the cleansing). Not sure where this would place the ships at the time of the comment.

Sammael said it early LoC. It could matter a bit, because if Demandred is among the Sea Folk, you could argue Logain's demands concerning the bargain with the Coramoor throw a spanner in Demandreds wheels. I doubt it matters, since the Sea Folk know Travelling and they own strip(s?) of land in Andor at the least. As long as Demandreds 'rule is secure' (and it is, given my theory) the actual position might not be such a big deal; Travelling and fast ships, that are always in a big city where none of the major forces of the Light are stationed.

 

Maybe wasn't clear, my point was that the ships not being south in TOM (and probably WH) doesn't affect what Sammael said in LoC (thanks for book), but I'm not sure where the ships are in LoC other than that they are massing in ports - I can't remember if it's just southern ports or all ports, except presumably Falme

[Mik]

I may be misunderstanding the argument about the ships (long day) but surely Sammaels comment about the ships was in CoS or earlier, but Logain doesn't give them the orders about shipping until WH (? - sometime after the cleansing). Not sure where this would place the ships at the time of the comment.

Sammael said it early LoC. It could matter a bit, because if Demandred is among the Sea Folk, you could argue Logain's demands concerning the bargain with the Coramoor throw a spanner in Demandreds wheels. I doubt it matters, since the Sea Folk know Travelling and they own strip(s?) of land in Andor at the least. As long as Demandreds 'rule is secure' (and it is, given my theory) the actual position might not be such a big deal; Travelling and fast ships, that are always in a big city where none of the major forces of the Light are stationed.

 

Maybe wasn't clear, my point was that the ships not being south in TOM (and probably WH) doesn't affect what Sammael said in LoC (thanks for book), but I'm not sure where the ships are in LoC other than that they are massing in ports - I can't remember if it's just southern ports or all ports, except presumably Falme

I put that in the theory actually (first post):

 

The Sea Folk are gathering in the Southern ports about the same time that Sammael tells Graendal that he sees Demandreds 'signature', and he thinks to himself it's in the south.

On top of that, he uses the word 'steer' twice when talking about Demandreds 'friends':

 

Balwer’s eyes never left Niall’s face by so much as a flicker, but Niall knew the tiny ball of paper on the floor would end up in the man’s hands unless he burned it.

“Four things that might be of interest, my Lord. The least first. The rumors about meetings between the Ogier stedding are true. For Ogier, they seem to be showing some haste.” He did not say what the meetings were about, of course; getting a human into an Ogier Stump was as impossible as getting an Ogier to spy. Easier to have the sun rise at night. “Also, there are an unusual number of Sea Folk ships in the southern ports, not taking cargo, not sailing.”

“What are they waiting for?”

 

For a moment Balwer’s mouth tightened as though drawstrings had been pulled shut. “I do not know yet, my Lord.” Balwer never liked admitting there were any human secrets he could not ferret out. Trying to learn more than the surface of what went on among the Atha’an Miere was like trying to learn how the Guild of Illuminators made fireworks, an exercise in futility.

[BFG]

I may be misunderstanding the argument about the ships (long day) but surely Sammaels comment about the ships was in CoS or earlier, but Logain doesn't give them the orders about shipping until WH (? - sometime after the cleansing). Not sure where this would place the ships at the time of the comment.

Sammael said it early LoC. It could matter a bit, because if Demandred is among the Sea Folk, you could argue Logain's demands concerning the bargain with the Coramoor throw a spanner in Demandreds wheels. I doubt it matters, since the Sea Folk know Travelling and they own strip(s?) of land in Andor at the least. As long as Demandreds 'rule is secure' (and it is, given my theory) the actual position might not be such a big deal; Travelling and fast ships, that are always in a big city where none of the major forces of the Light are stationed.

 

Maybe wasn't clear, my point was that the ships not being south in TOM (and probably WH) doesn't affect what Sammael said in LoC (thanks for book), but I'm not sure where the ships are in LoC other than that they are massing in ports - I can't remember if it's just southern ports or all ports, except presumably Falme

I put that in the theory actually (first post):

 

The Sea Folk are gathering in the Southern ports about the same time that Sammael tells Graendal that he sees Demandreds 'signature', and he thinks to himself it's in the south.

On top of that, he uses the word 'steer' twice when talking about Demandreds 'friends':

 

Balwer’s eyes never left Niall’s face by so much as a flicker, but Niall knew the tiny ball of paper on the floor would end up in the man’s hands unless he burned it.

“Four things that might be of interest, my Lord. The least first. The rumors about meetings between the Ogier stedding are true. For Ogier, they seem to be showing some haste.” He did not say what the meetings were about, of course; getting a human into an Ogier Stump was as impossible as getting an Ogier to spy. Easier to have the sun rise at night. “Also, there are an unusual number of Sea Folk ships in the southern ports, not taking cargo, not sailing.”

“What are they waiting for?”

 

For a moment Balwer’s mouth tightened as though drawstrings had been pulled shut. “I do not know yet, my Lord.” Balwer never liked admitting there were any human secrets he could not ferret out. Trying to learn more than the surface of what went on among the Atha’an Miere was like trying to learn how the Guild of Illuminators made fireworks, an exercise in futility.

 

True, I was really responding to people in general that seemed to be saying that the ToM quote and WH(?) actions negated what Sammael said in LoC.

[FanoLan]

Zaida wasn't in touch with Harine until TGS/ToM, so clearly Amel couldn't have kept tabs on Rand by virtue of the bargain. Therefore, Aran'gar's remark about his being appointed to keep an eye on him is difficult to apply to an Amel alter-ego.

As FanoLan noted, we see Demandred checking out the Royal Palace in tar a few chapters after Zaida and her retinue arrive in Caemlyn. I never said that Amel 'kept tabs on Rand by virtue of the Bargain'. That's kind of a nice strawman argument to tear down easily. I never said anything about Demandred keeping tabs. Doesn't mean that Demandred can't from where he's operating. *shrugs*

You didn't say so, FanoLan did; I simply found it prudent to comment on every argument made in support of your case instead of leaving holes in mine. I'm sorry if that gave you the impression I was putting words in your mouth.

Hey, did someone mention my name around these parts?

 

Please let me clear up my perspective on this tidbit of additional supporting evidence.

 

After how ever many years and how ever deep a sleep, Demandred gets released from his prison and right off the start gets a few assignments from the DO/Ishy. One of these assignments: infiltrate/corrupt the upper ranks of the Sea Folk. DO: "Here's what Ishy and the DFs can tell you about them and here's a copy of their primary prophecy, do what you can." Also, he's tasked to keep track of al'Thor. Dem, the resourceful gadabout, improvises his plan from there while maintaining his own action on the side and angling for NB/the opportunity to kill LTT.

 

Knowing the prophecy of the Coramoor, Dem then devised the Sea Folk terms of the Bargain and also ensured that both negotiating parties had at least one DF among them who would then be part of the retinue accompanying al'Thor. Slap a finder on said DFs, maybe give them each a ter', and there you have your keeping tabs task accomplished within the framework of a larger assignment. Whether or not Dem has been masquerading as Amel, this thread has convinced me he is either manipulating or has infiltrated the SF at a high enough rank to cause havoc.

[Asmodeanisdemandread]

I do like this theory and I haven't read all the replies so forgive me if this was mentioned. But if dem and semi were in cahoots why did the SF take such heavy losses when they escaped from ED? One would think that dem would tell semi not to kill off TOO many of his troops. But mats tavaren nature may have been unforeseen. Did I just answer my own question?

[FarShainMael]

Zaida wasn't in touch with Harine until TGS/ToM, so clearly Amel couldn't have kept tabs on Rand by virtue of the bargain. Therefore, Aran'gar's remark about his being appointed to keep an eye on him is difficult to apply to an Amel alter-ego.

As FanoLan noted, we see Demandred checking out the Royal Palace in tar a few chapters after Zaida and her retinue arrive in Caemlyn. I never said that Amel 'kept tabs on Rand by virtue of the Bargain'. That's kind of a nice strawman argument to tear down easily. I never said anything about Demandred keeping tabs. Doesn't mean that Demandred can't from where he's operating. *shrugs*

You didn't say so, FanoLan did; I simply found it prudent to comment on every argument made in support of your case instead of leaving holes in mine. I'm sorry if that gave you the impression I was putting words in your mouth.

Hey, did someone mention my name around these parts?

 

Please let me clear up my perspective on this tidbit of additional supporting evidence.

 

After how ever many years and how ever deep a sleep, Demandred gets released from his prison and right off the start gets a few assignments from the DO/Ishy. One of these assignments: infiltrate/corrupt the upper ranks of the Sea Folk. DO: "Here's what Ishy and the DFs can tell you about them and here's a copy of their primary prophecy, do what you can." Also, he's tasked to keep track of al'Thor. Dem, the resourceful gadabout, improvises his plan from there while maintaining his own action on the side and angling for NB/the opportunity to kill LTT.

 

Knowing the prophecy of the Coramoor, Dem then devised the Sea Folk terms of the Bargain and also ensured that both negotiating parties had at least one DF among them who would then be part of the retinue accompanying al'Thor. Slap a finder on said DFs, maybe give them each a ter', and there you have your keeping tabs task accomplished within the framework of a larger assignment. Whether or not Dem has been masquerading as Amel, this thread has convinced me he is either manipulating or has infiltrated the SF at a high enough rank to cause havoc.

 

So it would appear! In the TGH Prologue, we have a PoV from a 'man who called himself Bors' at a gathering of DFs who are given assignments by Ba'alzamon. Those present include a wealthy and perhaps noble Illianer woman, another woman, of the first blood of Arad Doman, a Shienaran soldier, a Tinker, a High Lord of Tear, a high officer in the Andoran Queen's Guard.. and a 'slender fellow' in a black robe and grey cloak with a silver pin - and a six-pointed star tattooed on the web between thumb and forefinger of his right hand. One of the Sea Folk; and in a gathering including high-ranking individuals. Bors himself, of course, is Jaichim Carridin, an Inquisitor of the CotL.

 

Anyone know what this tattoo indicates please?

[Mik]

True, I was really responding to people in general that seemed to be saying that the ToM quote and WH(?) actions negated what Sammael said in LoC.

LOL. That's what I thought the first time when I replied, but you replied that maybe your point wasn't clear... now that got me confused.

We're on the same side and basically saying the same thing; at the point that it truly mattered for the theory, the Sea Folk ships were 'in the south'. =D

 

 

I do like this theory and I haven't read all the replies so forgive me if this was mentioned. But if dem and semi were in cahoots why did the SF take such heavy losses when they escaped from ED? One would think that dem would tell semi not to kill off TOO many of his troops. But mats tavaren nature may have been unforeseen. Did I just answer my own question?

I doubt it has anything to do with Mat being ta'veren. He had a role in the Sea Folk 'Escape', but I doubt he influenced the Seanchan attack.

 

I doubt the 'Chosen' worry much about those losses if you consider how they ruled the areas they conquered during the WoS. The BWB & Rand's memories early in LoC (when facing "Taim" the first time) show how the Forsaken treated humanity which most of them regard as insects and dogs. They needed a convincing battle to take out the ruling body of the Sea Folk. I doubt Demandred could care less about a few dozen ships lost and some Windfinders captured by the Seanchan, as long as it gave him his much needed 'vacançy' to have him 'secure his rule' without anyone suspecting a Forsaken pulling the strings. After the first few days of his Masters Return, Demandred thinks he's the one who will lead most of the armies of Shai'tan. A few Sea Folk (think hundreds) won't matter one bit then.

 

 

So it would appear! In the TGH Prologue, we have a PoV from a 'man who called himself Bors' at a gathering of DFs who are given assignments by Ba'alzamon. Those present include a wealthy and perhaps noble Illianer woman, another woman, of the first blood of Arad Doman, a Shienaran soldier, a Tinker, a High Lord of Tear, a high officer in the Andoran Queen's Guard.. and a 'slender fellow' in a black robe and grey cloak with a silver pin - and a six-pointed star tattooed on the web between thumb and forefinger of his right hand. One of the Sea Folk; and in a gathering including high-ranking individuals. Bors himself, of course, is Jaichim Carridin, an Inquisitor of the CotL.

 

Anyone know what this tattoo indicates please?

The tattoo that was seen by Bors/ Carradin in the prologue just indicated that the 'slender fellow in the anonymous gray cloak' was a Sea Folk man. That's it really. But it's enough.

"Bors" even thinks how this Sea Folk man would have his 'line and Clan' tattooed on the other hand, but ofcourse we don't get to see it.

 

It's enough for us to know at that point in time that Ba'alzamon found it important to have a Sea Folk man attend this meeting, and the Sea Folk man found it prudent to remain anonymous whereas the chances of him meeting another Darkfriend out at sea is near to zero. It might just mean this Sea Folk Darkfriend already knows he's going to be spending a lot of time among the landdwellers the comming time. I always found it very telling that we're told in WH that Moad knows how to ride a horse...

Especially given what we're told about how Zaida & co. arrive at the Royal Palace all broken and battered because they had to ride horses for some strange reasons. :)

Both these things are odd, but Moad might just be that guy at the Darkfriend Social in TGH.

 

 

The only thing that keeps bothering me is that quote Suttree brought up from Brandon.

*snarls and seeks deeper shadow*

[FarShainMael]

Perhaps Brandon was thinking of this, from a French website..

 

http://www.pierre-de-tear.com/forum-view_topic&topic_id=2616&topic_offset=13

 

Demiandre:

 

"Sinon, je crois qu'on a appris dans quel rôle s'est glissé Demandred... "

 

Almen Blunt? Ou son frère James?

Oui c'est bien le paysan qui a conduit Mat et Rand à Caemlyn, et participé aux affrontements durant la manifestation.

 

 

 

Atalante:

 

Demandred c'est Amel Bent?

 

Non, sans rire, j'ai rien vu sur Demandred moi

 

'Atalante' was joking.. there is a French singer called Amel Bent!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amel_Bent

 

hope this helps.....................

 

ETA: There is a 'Demiandre' who posts here occasionally. (He's a Pink Floyd fan.)

[Mik]

The only thing that keeps bothering me is that quote Suttree brought up from Brandon.

*snarls and seeks deeper shadow*

Perhaps Brandon was thinking of this, from a French website..

 

http://www.pierre-de...topic_offset=13

 

Demiandre:

"Sinon, je crois qu'on a appris dans quel rôle s'est glissé Demandred... "

 

Almen Blunt? Ou son frère James?

Oui c'est bien le paysan qui a conduit Mat et Rand à Caemlyn, et participé aux affrontements durant la manifestation.

 

 

Atalante:

Demandred c'est Amel Bent?

 

Non, sans rire, j'ai rien vu sur Demandred moi

 

'Atalante' was joking.. there is a French singer called Amel Bent!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amel_Bent

 

hope this helps.....................

 

ETA: There is a 'Demiandre' who posts here occasionally. (He's a Pink Floyd fan.)

FarShainMael, vous êtes incroyable!

 

How did you find that!? Thanks!

It fits with Brandon Sanderson saying someone 'guessed' it correctly! What's still puzzling though, is how did BS find this one? Maybe some or more of the people on Team Jordan search the net for certain key-words together, to see if people found out? I think I would....

 

Anyway! Great find!

*cackles madly at Suttree!*

[XoMeltdownoX]

I do not think you have overcome the BS quote yet, but it is a damn good theory.

[makaveli422]

Don't forget that before ToM Brandon also had people looking for his Big Unnoticed Thing which he said had not been discussed as far as he knew. It turned out that the BUT turned out to be Mat's ashendari which had been discussed before. So I don't know how far to trust that BS quote.

 

@Mik I love the theory and can't believe I never thought about Dem being among the Sea Folk. I think it fits and doesn't mean Dem couldn't have influenced Roedran in Murandy so he can strike from two unexpected directions at once from ground where his enemy doesn't expect him to be. Kudos to you!

[Mik]

I do not think you have overcome the BS quote yet, but it is a damn good theory.

And why not?

All Brandon -or someone in Team Jordan- had to do is have Google search for "Demandred is Amel" between October 2010 (french forum post) and September 2012 (Brandons's interview was on Sep 22nd, 2012)

It would have showed up as the third hit! It's one of the easiest things to do to see if someone found Demandred, right?

And up untill now, noone had actually suggested Amel/ Sea Folk for Demandred, but one french guy made a joke about Almen Blunt and unknowingly -maybe not even realizing there was a character called Amel in the books- guessed the right name for Demandreds alter ego.

Even now, it still registers as the sixth hit. (haha! This thread is now first! Olé!)

 

"Demandred does have an alter ego. He has been up to some very cool things. There are people online who have guessed correctly. And so, I will say that much."

One guy literally 'guessed correct' that Amel is Demandreds alter ego. Some others have 'guessed correctly' the [other] things Demandred has been up to. Ergo; there are people online who have guessed correctly, and so, I will [and can truthfully] say that much!

I think I just overcame that BS quote right there!

 

 

Don't forget that before ToM Brandon also had people looking for his Big Unnoticed Thing which he said had not been discussed as far as he knew. It turned out that the BUT turned out to be Mat's ashendari which had been discussed before. So I don't know how far to trust that BS quote.

There's that also. But it's a different -and much harder to find- topic. "Amel" as a search topic in relation to "Demandred" is very easy to combine and the result only yields a few hits in search engines, whereas the key-words in relation to the BUT, were much used terms -especially in relation to eachother-, so it's much harder to keep track when you're not seriously involved in several web-sites.

 

@Mik I love the theory and can't believe I never thought about Dem being among the Sea Folk. I think it fits and doesn't mean Dem couldn't have influenced Roedran in Murandy so he can strike from two unexpected directions at once from ground where his enemy doesn't expect him to be. Kudos to you!

Thanks and fully agree!