Who's Voice was In Rand's Head End of Eye of the World?

[herid]

ok, I should have phrased it better. RJ may have had an idea about TP but the details were definitely not there in the beginning, just like with TAR. Your example with Rand traveling in Tarvin's gap is a good one btw. For extra support about details on TP look at how Moggy thinks of Aran'gar's weaves in LoC (when I believe TP was still only a half formed idea and likely didn't even have a name)

She was struggling to speak, to say her name was Marigan, when suddenly she became truly aware of the light. A small glowing white ball, pale, hanging in the air near her head. With the a'dam on her, she could not do more than think of using saidar without permission, but she could still feel it channeled, see the webs woven. This time she felt nothing, saw nothing. Just a tiny ball of pure light. She stared at the woman who had called herself Aran'gar ... A woman. But that ball of light had to be saidin!

--LoC, Epilogue

Now compare it to the description of the same exact scene in aCoS when the notion of TP is fully formed and Moridin is already using it explicitly elsewhere in the book.

The woman channeled to make a light, and Moghedien saw only the light. It had to be saidin - among the living, only the Chosen knew how to tap the True Power—the Power that came from the Dark One—and few were fool enough to except in direst need - but that was impossible! Blurring quickness. The woman named herself Aran'gar and called Moghedien by name, she gave summons to the Pit of Doom and removed the a'dam necklace, flinching at pain no woman should have felt.

-aCoS, ch 25

 

as for inverting the weaves, that's a good point. I didn't think about it. I think you mean reversing the weaves though. as I understand inverting applies to already made weaves like the traps Rand put on the Shadar Logoth waygate and reversing means active weaves like when Cyndane channels during the fight at the end of WH.

[Wool-headed lummox]

In short, all experienced channelers are able to:

 

1. Sense another's ability to channel and their strength;

2. Sense when another is holding the One Power (women cannot detect men as the only exception);

3. See the elemental weaves as they are being created.

 

The Forsaken know how to conceal all of these factors. Mesaana did so every time she talked to Alviarin, she did not register as a channeler, and her disguise didn't appear to be made of any weaves at all. In short, she did the exact same thing as Asangar with Moghiedin in LoC, and yet Alviarin did not jump to the impossible conclusion that Mesaana is channeling saidin. A blatant contradiction on RJ's part, he obviously introduced the concept of inverting/reversing weaves (whichever one it is) late in the series, and didn't bother with the contradictions it created. Otherwise Moggy would have assumed Asangar was taught by one of the Forsaken.

 

Of course, none of this explains why Moggy didn't simply assume that Asangar was using a terangreal that creates a ball of light. We know some terangreal can be activated without channelling, and a small globe of light isn't something that seems impossible to put into a non-channeling terangreal. Thanks for this example of RJ making his characters jump to illogical conclusions for the sake of drama.

[Suttree]

In short, all experienced channelers are able to:

 

1. Sense another's ability to channel and their strength;

 

Just to be clear here a man has to have seized Saidin for another to tell he can channel.

[Cybertrolloc]

I had thought saidar use could be entirely hidden from another saidar user, but there's something else besides Cad's detector that caused me to doubt it that I can't quite bring to mind. It's harder to detect saidin use, and there might be slight differences in how stealthy it can be.

 

I also don't think it's too obvious what a terangreal can and can't be. Some of them do some pretty crazy things, even aside from the adam, and I'd think that something a terangreal can do can be likely done by a channeler (granted some are way too powerful or complex to be feasible that way).

 

Per the topic, I've thought of it as being the DO and saying TG isn't here yet, you're on your own Ishy. Possibly backfilled with the Rand/Ishy link having more to it than just SL incident :)

[Knivy]

Or take traveling. in the EoTW prologue LTT travels but there is no mentioning of a gateway and when Ishy travels he doesn't use a gateway either and instead sort of fades in and out. RJ later said that this was because Ishy was using TP to travel but that is an obvious retcon. He didn't invent the notion of TP until much later.

Not true. Ishy mentions following a different power in the prologue, and the first few books have several strong indications of a power being drawn from Shai'tan - it is merely not explicitly named at that point.

This is especially obvious in the scene when Aran'gar frees Moggy in Salidar. Moggy sees a woman channel but can't see the weaves. Her immediate thought is that this woman must be channeling saidin which should be impossible. This makes no sense. She clearly never heard of any woman ever channeling saidin and didn't think it was possible. So her first thought should be that this woman channels TP, not saidin. Yet she never even considers the possibility. the reason is that Jordan hasn't invented TP yet when writing that scene.

That is not the reason. That is a possibility, and not even the most likely one. Surely the absence of the aura of darkness seen in other TP users would be something of an indication that TP is not involved?

 

She knows it is saidin because of the pain associated with unlocking an a'dam with saidin, iirc...

[herid]

that's not how it went exactly. Aran'gar makes a globe of light. Moggy immediately thinks it must be saidin. They hold a fairly long talk and only then Aran'gar touches the a'dam.

[Whizbang]

Why would a channeler hide their ability to channel, and invert their weaves, and then create a globe of light? It might be the TP, but even the forsaken view using the TP as a step towards madness. They comment on Ishy using too much of it and causing a form of madness. Why create a ball of light with the TP? I get the impression that even Ishy wouldn't use the TP in such a trivial way. So, it must be the OP. Without any logical reason to hide the weaves, it must be Saidin.

 

Moggy probably didn't reason all this out in the manner above, but probably got there through intuition.

[BFG]

I'm inclined towards it being the Creator. The use of caps suggests that it's either the Creator or the Dark One (I guess it could have been an early bookism and the voice of LTT, but I'm not sure Rand had access to that part of himself before the taint - and I don't believe he channeled enough in tEotW to mass enough taint inside himself for that).

 

There are similarities between the fight at Tarmons Pass and Maradon. At Maradon Rand says that it came to close to a battle between him and the Dark One which he wants to happen at SG. At both places he channels ridiculous amounts of power near the Blight, but at Tarmons Gap he didn't have the awareness of what he was doing to stop by himself and needed the help. I guess it could be the DO, he seems to want Rand alive for the first few books and so could have helped out, but I struggle to see that as a convincing reason. So that leaves me with an early bookism and wither the Creator or LTT.

[herid]

Why would a channeler hide their ability to channel, and invert their weaves, and then create a globe of light?

It could be for example someone (like Moggy herself) who is hiding her ability to channel from others in the camp. It would make complete sense for them to take precautions and hide their weaves. that would have been a far more reasonable explanation than jumping to conclusion that it's a woman channeling saidin.

It might be the TP, but even the forsaken view using the TP as a step towards madness. They comment on Ishy using too much of it and causing a form of madness. Why create a ball of light with the TP? I get the impression that even Ishy wouldn't use the TP in such a trivial way. So, it must be the OP. Without any logical reason to hide the weaves, it must be Saidin.

 

Moggy probably didn't reason all this out in the manner above, but probably got there through intuition.

that's not it. it's just a retcon for a later invented notion. I gave two quotes describing the episode. please read them. the first from LoC doesn't mention TP at all. in the second, from aCoS, Moggy does think about it and rules it out because only Forsaken are allowed to use it.

I'm inclined towards it being the Creator. The use of caps suggests that it's either the Creator or the Dark One (I guess it could have been an early bookism and the voice of LTT, but I'm not sure Rand had access to that part of himself before the taint - and I don't believe he channeled enough in tEotW to mass enough taint inside himself for that).

I gave a quote of RJ earlier in the thread that eliminates it being the Creator. so it must be the DO.

There are similarities between the fight at Tarmons Pass and Maradon. At Maradon Rand says that it came to close to a battle between him and the Dark One which he wants to happen at SG. At both places he channels ridiculous amounts of power near the Blight, but at Tarmons Gap he didn't have the awareness of what he was doing to stop by himself and needed the help.

I noticed that too. As far as I understand he was using the Eye of the Wold at Tarwin's gap which is a huge well of saidin. There are various theories about what allowed him to channel so strongly at Maradon. some think he may have a sa'angreal with him, possibly even Callandor, or that he created a large well of saidin or some kind of link to saidin during his transformation on the Dragonmount. Nyn observed some rather interesting staff on his brain when she delved him in TOM.

[Whizbang]

Why would a channeler hide their ability to channel, and invert their weaves, and then create a globe of light?

It could be for example someone (like Moggy herself) who is hiding her ability to channel from others in the camp. It would make complete sense for them to take precautions and hide their weaves. that would have been a far more reasonable explanation than jumping to conclusion that it's a woman channeling saidin.

 

Hiding the ability to channel, sure. I see that, in a camp full of Aes Sedai. But inverting the weaves, inside a tent? The only one that can see the weaves is Moggy, and she can see the globe of light appear, so hiding the weaves is just... useless.

 

Anyway, I don't want to argue too much, I had the same "wha...?" moment when I read it too. Saidin would not have been my first assumption, either. I am just saying, if you need to rationalize Moggy's reaction with in-world logic, then you'll need to use something like my previous post to get you to the Saidin result.

[Wool-headed lummox]

Why would a channeler hide their ability to channel, and invert their weaves, and then create a globe of light? It might be the TP, but even the forsaken view using the TP as a step towards madness.

Same reason Mesaana hid hers from Alviarin. In order to hide their true potential, and possibly to avoid being recognized (nobody said Arangar's appearance couldn't have been a product of the Mask of Mirrors). All of this is far more likely than Moggy instantly gasping "Saidin" because the plot needs her to. As for TP... please, the Forsaken crave it. A tiny ball of light is exactly the kind of minor but nonetheless satisfying use of TP a careful channeller would indulge themselves in.

 

Moggy probably didn't reason all this out in the manner above, but probably got there through intuition.

Believing something as improbable would require almost fanatically religious fervor.

[herid]

@ Wizbang Aes Sedai don't need to see the weaves to know that somebody is channeling. there are many examples of that like Sorilea feeling that somebody is channeling inside the house where Rand is being held. That's the kind of thing Moggy's visitor would not have wanted as there were only two people in the tent and neither of them was supposed to be able to channel.

 

edit: got ninjad on this by Wool-headed lummox

 

But actually, if we leave the TP out of the discussion there may be a better reason why Moggy didn't consider that Aran'gar is channeling OP and reversing her weaves. There is apparently some controversy about whether or not it's possible to completely hide active channeling.

I just found a web page which discusses this in detail.

[Whizbang]

@ Wizbang Aes Sedai don't need to see the weaves to know that somebody is channeling. there are many examples of that like Sorilea feeling that somebody is channeling inside the house where Rand is being held. That's the kind of thing Moggy's visitor would not have wanted as there were only two people in the tent and neither of them was supposed to be able to channel.

 

Right, but we've seen that when there are large numbers of Aes Sedai (at least) together, they more or less ignore this sense, because people are almost always channeling to some degree somewhere in the camp. If someone were right outside the tent, and they felt someone channel inside, then maybe their suspicions would rise (and maybe only if it were Egwene, Nyn, Elayne, Suian, or Leane outside), but if they were even a few tents over, they'd disregard it altogether.

 

*Reading the link provided. I may be back*

[BFG]

Why would a channeler hide their ability to channel, and invert their weaves, and then create a globe of light?

It could be for example someone (like Moggy herself) who is hiding her ability to channel from others in the camp. It would make complete sense for them to take precautions and hide their weaves. that would have been a far more reasonable explanation than jumping to conclusion that it's a woman channeling saidin.

It might be the TP, but even the forsaken view using the TP as a step towards madness. They comment on Ishy using too much of it and causing a form of madness. Why create a ball of light with the TP? I get the impression that even Ishy wouldn't use the TP in such a trivial way. So, it must be the OP. Without any logical reason to hide the weaves, it must be Saidin.

 

Moggy probably didn't reason all this out in the manner above, but probably got there through intuition.

that's not it. it's just a retcon for a later invented notion. I gave two quotes describing the episode. please read them. the first from LoC doesn't mention TP at all. in the second, from aCoS, Moggy does think about it and rules it out because only Forsaken are allowed to use it.

I'm inclined towards it being the Creator. The use of caps suggests that it's either the Creator or the Dark One (I guess it could have been an early bookism and the voice of LTT, but I'm not sure Rand had access to that part of himself before the taint - and I don't believe he channeled enough in tEotW to mass enough taint inside himself for that).

I gave a quote of RJ earlier in the thread that eliminates it being the Creator. so it must be the DO.

There are similarities between the fight at Tarmons Pass and Maradon. At Maradon Rand says that it came to close to a battle between him and the Dark One which he wants to happen at SG. At both places he channels ridiculous amounts of power near the Blight, but at Tarmons Gap he didn't have the awareness of what he was doing to stop by himself and needed the help.

I noticed that too. As far as I understand he was using the Eye of the Wold at Tarwin's gap which is a huge well of saidin. There are various theories about what allowed him to channel so strongly at Maradon. some think he may have a sa'angreal with him, possibly even Callandor, or that he created a large well of saidin or some kind of link to saidin during his transformation on the Dragonmount. Nyn observed some rather interesting staff on his brain when she delved him in TOM.

 

I've seen the RJ quote about the Creator before, but I find it harder to believe that it's the DO. There's no reason for the DO to want to stop him channeling, additionally as far as I can remember every other time the DO talks he talks in italicised letters - I don't see why that would change between the books. It seems to me the problem that Rand has with the channeling near the blight is that it releases the DO (has the potential to release) before Rand is ready, clearly that's good for the DO. Plus the whole 'will take no part' seems almost word to word quote of how he explains the creator. Additionally, Moridin, whose been channeling True Power for months/maybe a year can in ToM apparantly hear the DO away from SG, I find it difficult to believe that the DO could reach Rand at the beginning of tEotW when their's barely any taint in his mind.

 

 

You've taken the connection between the two further than I have - I hadn't thought in terms of the strength of channeling, just in terms of the outcome. After EotW there's BIG SHOUTING TELLING HIM TO STOP, after Maradon, he seems to realise the same thing himself.

 

I think with this I'll be happiest if it's never explained, or if it's explained in a way that I haven't thought of or read yet, since none of them are truly satisfying.

 

 

@ Wizbang Aes Sedai don't need to see the weaves to know that somebody is channeling. there are many examples of that like Sorilea feeling that somebody is channeling inside the house where Rand is being held. That's the kind of thing Moggy's visitor would not have wanted as there were only two people in the tent and neither of them was supposed to be able to channel.

 

edit: got ninjad on this by Wool-headed lummox

 

But actually, if we leave the TP out of the discussion there may be a better reason why Moggy didn't consider that Aran'gar is channeling OP and reversing her weaves. There is apparently some controversy about whether or not it's possible to completely hide active channeling.

I just found a web page which discusses this in detail.

 

Only skim read the link, so may be repeating something in it, if so apologies - but we know that Elayne and Nyn don't teach the weaves on how to hide ability to channel and weaves used, etc from the other AS while Moggy is held captive because they think it's possible for one of the AS to discover how to see through it, and they can't risk that while Moggy is a captive.

[herid]

I've seen the RJ quote about the Creator before, but I find it harder to believe that it's the DO. There's no reason for the DO to want to stop him channeling, additionally as far as I can remember every other time the DO talks he talks in italicised letters - I don't see why that would change between the books.

The voice is not stopping Rand channeling. It just says something rather cryptic. and the DO definitely does talk in all caps sometimes. that's exactly how he talks to Demandred in LoC prologue. Moreover, the description of the physical effect is strikingly similar in both cases.

Rand:

“The Light blind you, Ba’alzamon! This has to end!”

IT IS NOT HERE.

It was not Rand’s thought, making his skull vibrate.

--tEoTW, ch 51

Demandred

Demandred opened his mouth—and a voice exploded in his head.

DEMANDRED.

To call it a voice was to call a mountain a pebble. It nearly crushed him against the inside of his own skull; it filled him with rapture.

--LoC, prologue

Also, the voice uses the word "Chosen" when seemingly describing Rand which is DO's pet word for the Forsaken.

Moreover, there may be very good reasons for the DO to speak to Rand at that point. I wrote up a post recently that Ishy (and the DO) baited Rand into using the Eye prematurely in order to facilitate the destruction of the seals. The voice speaking may have something to do with that.

But actually, if we leave the TP out of the discussion there may be a better reason why Moggy didn't consider that Aran'gar is channeling OP and reversing her weaves. There is apparently some controversy about whether or not it's possible to completely hide active channeling.

I just found a web page which discusses this in detail.

 

Only skim read the link, so may be repeating something in it, if so apologies - but we know that Elayne and Nyn don't teach the weaves on how to hide ability to channel and weaves used, etc from the other AS while Moggy is held captive because they think it's possible for one of the AS to discover how to see through it, and they can't risk that while Moggy is a captive.

Moggy's thought process is given in full. she doesn't think about any Elayne and Nyn at all, and in any case such possibilities should still be infinitely more likely than a woman channeling saidin which is simply impossible so far as Moggy knows.

[Southpaw89]

I think it's pretty evident that it was the DO speaking. RJ wouldn't write anyone else in all caps early on in series and then do it later on for the DO ONLY. I'm sure Brandon will tie it up at the end of AMoL by having the DO say something that hints at what was said in book 1. The DO was probably speaking to Ishamael and Rand could hear it because Brandon confirmed that Rand and Ishamael have always been "linked" in a way

[BFG]

I've seen the RJ quote about the Creator before, but I find it harder to believe that it's the DO. There's no reason for the DO to want to stop him channeling, additionally as far as I can remember every other time the DO talks he talks in italicised letters - I don't see why that would change between the books.

The voice is not stopping Rand channeling. It just says something rather cryptic. and the DO definitely does talk in all caps sometimes. that's exactly how he talks to Demandred in LoC prologue. Moreover, the description of the physical effect is strikingly similar in both cases.

Rand:

“The Light blind you, Ba’alzamon! This has to end!”

IT IS NOT HERE.

It was not Rand’s thought, making his skull vibrate.

--tEoTW, ch 51

Demandred

Demandred opened his mouth—and a voice exploded in his head.

DEMANDRED.

To call it a voice was to call a mountain a pebble. It nearly crushed him against the inside of his own skull; it filled him with rapture.

--LoC, prologue

Also, the voice uses the word "Chosen" when seemingly describing Rand which is DO's pet word for the Forsaken.

Moreover, there may be very good reasons for the DO to speak to Rand at that point. I wrote up a post recently that Ishy (and the DO) baited Rand into using the Eye prematurely in order to facilitate the destruction of the seals. The voice speaking may have something to do with that.

But actually, if we leave the TP out of the discussion there may be a better reason why Moggy didn't consider that Aran'gar is channeling OP and reversing her weaves. There is apparently some controversy about whether or not it's possible to completely hide active channeling.

I just found a web page which discusses this in detail.

 

Only skim read the link, so may be repeating something in it, if so apologies - but we know that Elayne and Nyn don't teach the weaves on how to hide ability to channel and weaves used, etc from the other AS while Moggy is held captive because they think it's possible for one of the AS to discover how to see through it, and they can't risk that while Moggy is a captive.

Moggy's thought process is given in full. she doesn't think about any Elayne and Nyn at all, and in any case such possibilities should still be infinitely more likely than a woman channeling saidin which is simply impossible so far as Moggy knows.

 

Nice theory about the seals, it gives a good explanation as to why the Eye was so important.

 

I wasn't talking about Moggys thought process. After she's captured, one of the first things Elayne and Nyn get her to show them, is how to hide the ability to channel and alter appearance. But they can't show it to the sisters in case one of them figures out how to counter it. Eg then shows Salidar how it's done after Moggy escaped:

Well at least now she could pass on the secrets that had kept Moghedian hidden, how to weave disguises with the Power and how to mask your ability from other women who could channel. Revealing those had been too risky when they might have led to unmasking Moghedian

aCoS 9

 

I guess all it means is that the Wondergirls thought it wasn't unbeatable, not that it actually was.

[herid]

ah, got you. sorry, I misunderstood what you meant there. that webpage I found actually addresses this nicely. there are 3 separate issues here.

1. masking the ability to channel. Moggy did teach Elayne and Nyn that and this is part of what that quote from aCOS, ch 9 that you brought up talks about.
   
2. inverting the weaves. this makes tied off weaves invisible like what Rand did with the traps on the Shadar Logoth waygate or what Cadusane did with the shield during the cleansing scene. Moggy taught Elayne and Nyn that too.
   
3. reversing the weaves, which seems to mean making actively channeled weaves invisible. we don't know if Moggy taught them that (probably not) and from the link I gave it looks like it's not altogether clear what's going on with this one.
   

[Mr Ares]

Why would a channeler hide their ability to channel, and invert their weaves, and then create a globe of light?

It could be for example someone (like Moggy herself) who is hiding her ability to channel from others in the camp. It would make complete sense for them to take precautions and hide their weaves. that would have been a far more reasonable explanation than jumping to conclusion that it's a woman channeling saidin.

It might be the TP, but even the forsaken view using the TP as a step towards madness. They comment on Ishy using too much of it and causing a form of madness. Why create a ball of light with the TP? I get the impression that even Ishy wouldn't use the TP in such a trivial way. So, it must be the OP. Without any logical reason to hide the weaves, it must be Saidin.

 

Moggy probably didn't reason all this out in the manner above, but probably got there through intuition.

that's not it. it's just a retcon for a later invented notion. I gave two quotes describing the episode. please read them. the first from LoC doesn't mention TP at all. in the second, from aCoS, Moggy does think about it and rules it out because only Forsaken are allowed to use it.

That doesn' mean that the changes are a retcon for a later invented notion - it's just as reasonable to assume RJ didn't feel the need to expand on the TP when writing LoC, but when it became more prominent in ACoS, he did expand the scene accordingly.

 

I'm inclined towards it being the Creator. The use of caps suggests that it's either the Creator or the Dark One (I guess it could have been an early bookism and the voice of LTT, but I'm not sure Rand had access to that part of himself before the taint - and I don't believe he channeled enough in tEotW to mass enough taint inside himself for that).

I gave a quote of RJ earlier in the thread that eliminates it being the Creator. so it must be the DO.

No, you gave a quote. Your interpretation is not Word of God, and it is your interpretation that rules out it being the Creator.

 

Why would a channeler hide their ability to channel, and invert their weaves, and then create a globe of light? It might be the TP, but even the forsaken view using the TP as a step towards madness.

Same reason Mesaana hid hers from Alviarin. In order to hide their true potential, and possibly to avoid being recognized (nobody said Arangar's appearance couldn't have been a product of the Mask of Mirrors). All of this is far more likely than Moggy instantly gasping "Saidin" because the plot needs her to. As for TP... please, the Forsaken crave it. A tiny ball of light is exactly the kind of minor but nonetheless satisfying use of TP a careful channeller would indulge themselves in.

The Chosen regard the TP with a lot of wariness - Ishamael/Moridin alone indulges in casual use of it in the way you suggest. The others would absolutely not indulge in a minor but satisfying use like that - Moghedien's thoughts on the matter are clear, as are those of every other Chosen whenever it's brought up. They only use it in extremis - it's too dangerous to do otherwise.

[FarShainMael]

If it is the DO speaking to Ishy, and Rand overhears it; or if it is the DO speaking to Rand directly; why hasn't it happened again?

[Mr Ares]

Presumably it hasn't happened again because the message it wished to impart has been imparted, so there is no need for it to say anything more.

[Whizbang]

If it is the DO speaking to Ishy, and Rand overhears it; or if it is the DO speaking to Rand directly; why hasn't it happened again?

 

At the end of tEotW, all the seals are still intact (though weakened). Everything hinged upon what happened at the Eye. The DO would be using every last scrap of power to focus things there, either to commune with Ishy or Rand, and to influence events. Plus, they are closer to the bore than Rand has been since. Since then, there have been a lot of important things going on, with many players in many places. The DO, though more powerful, has that much more to pay attention to, and so cannot/will not send out direct communications like he did in the Eye, unless the person is right beneath the bore. And, if the communication was intended for Ishy, maybe the DO learned that Rand overheard it (because Rand then tracked down Ishy and almost destroyed him) and so is not willing to broadcast to Ishy in such a way again.

[FarShainMael]

I'm not convinced that a mind-to-mind communication (or soul-to-soul) could be overheard anyway.

 

As for speaking to Rand directly: he has said that all of the Dark One's eyes are fixed on him now. So I'd expect It to be yelling at Rand with all Its might!

 

But I simply am not convinced it is the DO; as a couple of people upthread have said, why would the DO say: 'I WILL TAKE NO PART'? And what of 'IF HE WILL'? I can't see the DO waiting on someone's will!

 

That quote from RJ that Herid cited:

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

Rand has no direct connection with the Creator. The Creator is completely removed from the world; aside from...creating...the Pattern, he does nothing else whatsoever to influence anything.

 

(I'd like to have known the complete quote; '...creating...' could have been anything. The transcriber left something out there. Nothing else besides what?)

 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php#12

 

Was it simply the Creator confirming that he would take no part? That would not influence anything.

 

As for the use of the word 'Chosen': that is the Forsaken's word for themselves, not the DO's; perhaps in defiance of the ones who rejected them. Furthermore, earlier in the book we see this:

 

"What seems like chance is often the Pattern. Three threads have come together here, each giving a warning: the Eye. It cannot be chance; it is the Pattern. You three did not choose; you were chosen by the Pattern."

 

So I don't think the use of the word 'CHOSEN' necessarily links the voice to the DO.

[Suttree]

I'm convinced it's simply an early bookism. Again the voice says almost exactly what RJs later claims about the Creator's role.

[Wool-headed lummox]

The Chosen regard the TP with a lot of wariness - Ishamael/Moridin alone indulges in casual use of it in the way you suggest. The others would absolutely not indulge in a minor but satisfying use like that - Moghedien's thoughts on the matter are clear, as are those of every other Chosen whenever it's brought up. They only use it in extremis - it's too dangerous to do otherwise.

No, you're absolutely wrong here. The Forsaken's wariness involves Moridin and his ever-increasing stream of black eye dots, which appeared in a matter of months since his placement in the new body, implying that he's been using the TP exclusively. That is what makes the Forsaken's skin crawl, not the idea of using the TP altogether. A tiny ball of light is nothing compared to months of unrestrained TP usage.

 

We find out in ToM that Graendal has been granted access to the TP as a reward for her... outstanding lack of major failures. She uses it to weave a ribbon of Air to caress Arangar's cheek, showing off her new abilities and status. If Graendal, the most cautious of the Forsaken, could allow herself something as frivolous, then there's no reason for Moggy to discount the TP in the split second it took her to realize that the ball of air didn't seem to be made of Saidar. After all, it's completely asinine to stipulate that the Forsaken would be reluctant to use the TP for tiny, instantaneous effects that require no more than a trickle. It's the major strength-draining efforts that should be avoided, lest the torrent of TP leaves a permanent mark on their "aura".

 

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

Rand has no direct connection with the Creator. The Creator is completely removed from the world; aside from...creating...the Pattern, he does nothing else whatsoever to influence anything.

Sounds exactly like the content of the ALL CAPS VOICE.

 

~ I will take no part. Only the Chosen One will do what must be done, if he wishes. "It" (what?) isn't here. ~

 

If the DO took the trouble to call Rand's private number, don't you think he would have said (or lied) something more substantial than "I will take no part"? Besides, when the DO talks to Demandred, it feels like an explosion of agony and ecstasy. The VOICE just made Rand's skull vibrate. And finally, the Dark One has very much been taking a part in what's going on, and he has more than one chosen.