Moiraine and Lan

[bigdoug1971]

Hello again friends. Still finishing up my re-read and trying to time it so that I'm finishing up so it's all fresh in my mind when we get our hands on the last book in January.

 

I was thinking about Moiraine and Lan. When she went to the docks to confront Lanfear and they went through the Ter'angreal together, her bond with Lan was broken. Lan says he can no longer feel her and tells Rand that he has to seek out his new Aes Sedai because the bond was to be passed on to another Aes Sedai if Moiraine fell and he could already feel his new mistress.

 

This is where I've never been clear on why their bond was broken. Moiraine wasn't stilled. She didn't die. I doubt in a struggle with a Forsaken that she has time to think about shifting her bond on over, and it was explained that her bond would switch upon her death. Going through the Ter'angreal cannot be what broke the bond with Lan. By this logic, going through the Ter'angreal in Tear would have done that since she went to the same world through both Ter'angreals. And realistically, if she set the bond to switch to Myrelle before she went after Lanfear, wouldn't Lan have felt the break when she released him instead of feeling the break after she was gone and the Ter'angreal melted?

 

 

Thoughts?

[Suttree]

Hello again friends. Still finishing up my re-read and trying to time it so that I'm finishing up so it's all fresh in my mind when we get our hands on the last book in January.

 

I was thinking about Moiraine and Lan. When she went to the docks to confront Lanfear and they went through the Ter'angreal together, her bond with Lan was broken. Lan says he can no longer feel her and tells Rand that he has to seek out his new Aes Sedai because the bond was to be passed on to another Aes Sedai if Moiraine fell and he could already feel his new mistress.

 

This is where I've never been clear on why their bond was broken. Moiraine wasn't stilled. She didn't die. I doubt in a struggle with a Forsaken that she has time to think about shifting her bond on over, and it was explained that her bond would switch upon her death. Going through the Ter'angreal cannot be what broke the bond with Lan. By this logic, going through the Ter'angreal in Tear would have done that since she went to the same world through both Ter'angreals. And realistically, if she set the bond to switch to Myrelle before she went after Lanfear, wouldn't Lan have felt the break when she released him instead of feeling the break after she was gone and the Ter'angreal melted?

 

 

Thoughts?

 

The bond was severed because the entrance to the Finn realm was ruined. The door frame actually melted due to the stress of the power going through as Moir tackled Lanfear.

[Shig]

Excellent point, I'd completely forgotten that she went through the gateway in Tear. Maybe someone who has really thought about it or read those chapters recently could argue that it might be because the portal was destroyed? Or maybe she intentionally destroyed the bond, damaging lan, and making it appear as though she was dead to prevent lan, rand, mat, egwene etc attempting a rescue, she is easily selfless and brave enough to do so. As we know, moiraine's purpose for 20 odd years has been to find the Dragon reborn and make sure he makes it to TG.

[Suttree]

Maybe someone who has really thought about it or read those chapters recently could argue that it might be because the portal was destroyed?

 

We know it was because that particular portal was destroyed.

 

 

[Shig]

We know it was because that particular portal was destroyed.

 

So...its completely impossible for another escape rout to be used? I don't doubt that the destruction of the portal was significant in the severance of the bond, but could it have been possible for moiraine to escape? Although the portal was destroyed, wasn't she technically still protected by the 'treaty's' of that land? Couldn't she have requested a way out in a similar fashion to how mat did? Im getting the feeling mat or rand ponders this, and comes to some sort of conclusion, but from what we know of that land it seems like she should have maybe been able to escape

[thisguy]

We know it was because that particular portal was destroyed.

 

So...its completely impossible for another escape rout to be used? I don't doubt that the destruction of the portal was significant in the severance of the bond, but could it have been possible for moiraine to escape? Although the portal was destroyed, wasn't she technically still protected by the 'treaty's' of that land? Couldn't she have requested a way out in a similar fashion to how mat did? Im getting the feeling mat or rand ponders this, and comes to some sort of conclusion, but from what we know of that land it seems like she should have maybe been able to escape

In ToM, after being rescued and chilling with Mat and Thom, she says that she knew once she went through the doorway there'd be no way out no matter how she negotiated - unless they came for her. Why, I don't know.

[Sid]

In ToM, after being rescued and chilling with Mat and Thom, she says that she knew once she went through the doorway there'd be no way out no matter how she negotiated - unless they came for her. Why, I don't know.

We know why she knew that she couldn't, just not why she couldn't for sure. She knew from her visit to Rhuidean, which allowed her to write the letter in the first place. Why there was no way to make it out is kind of hard to guess. It almost definitely had to do with the portal being destroyed. Perhaps there was a way to leave, but she knew that she needed crucial knowledge from that place for Rand (probably why Mat could give up half the light of the world to save the world). Likely there was no way to ask for both a safe escape and the crucial information without paying too high of a price.

[Hagazussa]

This is where I've never been clear on why their bond was broken. Moiraine wasn't stilled. She didn't die. I doubt in a struggle with a Forsaken that she has time to think about shifting her bond on over, and it was explained that her bond would switch upon her death.

 

Well if Moiraine was a cell phone Lan would get a "recipient out of area" message. Basically Moiraine was in another world so to speak and Lan was not. We do not know exactly how that bond works, but apparently it do not work across dimensions. Also as far as I know Moiraine had altered the bond in advance just setting up another Aes Sedai to take it over if she died, Moiraine and Lan discuss it when they where visiting those who old Aes Sedai living on a farm, with Lan protesting wildly. Moiraine did not alter the bond in the middle of the battle it was already done.

 

Going through the Ter'angreal cannot be what broke the bond with Lan. By this logic, going through the Ter'angreal in Tear would have done that since she went to the same world through both Ter'angreals. And realistically, if she set the bond to switch to Myrelle before she went after Lanfear, wouldn't Lan have felt the break when she released him instead of feeling the break after she was gone and the Ter'angreal melted?

 

When Moiraine went though the portal before it was still there, still open or at least openable, but when she do so and the portal melts then that gateway is gone. Now I hate to sound like a science fiction geek here but have you ever seen a show named Stargate? Think of the bond like communication, as long as the gate is active then you can send radio signals back and forth even if one person is on the other side, but when the portal closes then no more communication is getting though, for Lan that probably resisters as if Moiraine is dead.

[spoke]

I look at it more simply.

 

She asked the fins to break the bond as one of her three wishes.

[thisguy]

In ToM, after being rescued and chilling with Mat and Thom, she says that she knew once she went through the doorway there'd be no way out no matter how she negotiated - unless they came for her. Why, I don't know.

We know why she knew that she couldn't, just not why she couldn't for sure. She knew from her visit to Rhuidean, which allowed her to write the letter in the first place. Why there was no way to make it out is kind of hard to guess. It almost definitely had to do with the portal being destroyed. Perhaps there was a way to leave, but she knew that she needed crucial knowledge from that place for Rand (probably why Mat could give up half the light of the world to save the world). Likely there was no way to ask for both a safe escape and the crucial information without paying too high of a price.

That's what I'm saying. As for the portal being destroyed, there are still ways out of there, obviously. She said she couldn't bargain for one - why, I don't know. It could be for the information, that's a possibility. I got the feeling that they just wouldn't give her a way out. She probably didn't have anything to bargain with that was worthwhile to them when they could just keep her and drain her.

[thisguy]

This is where I've never been clear on why their bond was broken. Moiraine wasn't stilled. She didn't die. I doubt in a struggle with a Forsaken that she has time to think about shifting her bond on over, and it was explained that her bond would switch upon her death.

 

Well if Moiraine was a cell phone Lan would get a "recipient out of area" message. Basically Moiraine was in another world so to speak and Lan was not. We do not know exactly how that bond works, but apparently it do not work across dimensions. Also as far as I know Moiraine had altered the bond in advance just setting up another Aes Sedai to take it over if she died, Moiraine and Lan discuss it when they where visiting those who old Aes Sedai living on a farm, with Lan protesting wildly. Moiraine did not alter the bond in the middle of the battle it was already done.

 

Going through the Ter'angreal cannot be what broke the bond with Lan. By this logic, going through the Ter'angreal in Tear would have done that since she went to the same world through both Ter'angreals. And realistically, if she set the bond to switch to Myrelle before she went after Lanfear, wouldn't Lan have felt the break when she released him instead of feeling the break after she was gone and the Ter'angreal melted?

 

When Moiraine went though the portal before it was still there, still open or at least openable, but when she do so and the portal melts then that gateway is gone. Now I hate to sound like a science fiction geek here but have you ever seen a show named Stargate? Think of the bond like communication, as long as the gate is active then you can send radio signals back and forth even if one person is on the other side, but when the portal closes then no more communication is getting though, for Lan that probably resisters as if Moiraine is dead.

I look at it more simply.

 

She asked the fins to break the bond as one of her three wishes.

 

I actually had the same problem - trying to figure out why Lan thought she was dead. There's still the portal to the Snakes and they're basically just down the hallway from the Foxes. But, it's just one of those things and I dropped it not long after wondering about it.

 

I do not think she asked the Finns to break the link as one of her requests, though. She wasn't through the door more than a few seconds before Lan's brain started frazzling.

[Clouded]

I like to think of the Finn portals as Ter'angreal that tie invisible strings to people who enter. The strings lead back to dimension of Randland. When the portal was destroyed, the string was cut, and all bonds to Randland's dimension were cut as well.

[Hagazussa]

I do not think she asked the Finns to break the link as one of her requests, though. She wasn't through the door more than a few seconds before Lan's brain started frazzling.

 

Why would she need to ask the Finns for that? After all if she wanted Lan out of her hair she could release his bond at any time, which would not make him feel like if she is dead, he would just find the bond released.

[Knivy]

I think it is more simple to just say a Ter'angreal was destroyed. We know extreme things can happen with the power when TAs are involved, it isnt really that hard for severing a bond to be one of them when the TA goes out is such a spectacular fashion.

[Darksmoon]

I believe that Moiraine set the weave up to change over when she went through the portal. I'm not sure how that would work exactly but she knew well in advance what would happen.

 

I also remember Birgitte talking about how she had never made it out of the Tower of Genji alive in past lives. Perhaps with the entrance destroyed it simply was not possible. The only way Mat made it out was to blindly trust his luck.

[thisguy]

I do not think she asked the Finns to break the link as one of her requests, though. She wasn't through the door more than a few seconds before Lan's brain started frazzling.

 

Why would she need to ask the Finns for that? After all if she wanted Lan out of her hair she could release his bond at any time, which would not make him feel like if she is dead, he would just find the bond released.

I agree. That's what Spoke suggested, I was answering her/him.

[Suttree]

I look at it more simply.

 

She asked the fins to break the bond as one of her three wishes.

 

When I stated the reason above I wasn't just guessing. We know why it happened...

 

Interview: Aug 31st, 2011

Reddit AMA (Verbatim)

Terez

 

Why did Moiraine's bond with Lan break when the doorway burned? Did she intentionally release it?

Brandon Sanderson

 

She did not intentionally release it. RJ has something about this in the notes, but I don't have the quote handy. It basically has to do with the severing of the link between worlds.