Taim.....

[Stevros]

Tamodean? Is it just me going crazy or could Taim really be Asmodean reincarnated. The timeline fits (just about, but does sort of mean not long punishment was not handed out.)

 

I doubt its true but here's the argument.

 

If (and its a big if) the DO knew details of why he really worked for Rand, that Lanfear and Rand sort of forced him not of his own volition, then the DO could have forced him to try and prove himself whilst mindtrapped.

 

Taim could have been taken North into the Blight after his prison break.

 

The full proving of himself we have seen in the prologue with Taim's promotion back to Forsaken. Given a new name as the others would fail to accept him back.

 

Forced to be harder and more driven so Rand would not suspect, (forced to teach again is a perfect punishment given his feelings previously).

 

 

 

How stupid a theory is this (Very is my vote) or do I just like adding letters after Taim's name to make him seem more important

 

please feel free to tear apart/add I've only quickly thrown it together.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I wouldn't say stupid, just that it has already been debunked.

 

RJ said that the DO could not have transmigrated Asmodean even had he been willing to.

[makaveli422]

Interview: Oct 11th, 2005

 

KOD Signing Report - Ted Herman (Paraphrased)

Ted Herman

 

 

Since you said at an earlier signing that the Dark One couldn't have brought back Asmodean if he wanted, was that at the time of Asmodean's death, or after that?

Robert Jordan

 

 

The Dark One couldn't bring back Asmodean because of the combination of two factors: HOW HE DIED and WHERE HE DIED. Not one or the other, both factors.

 

I think you just like adding letters to his name.

[Stevros]

Yeah I remembered that about 10 minutes later, whilst driving to work. Key is not to come up with theories before I've had any caffeine in the morning.

 

(Any other letters we can add after Taim's name Taimhavin? Or Taimaana?)

[Neophyte]

Taimanderson?

[XoMeltdownoX]

Taimanderson?

LOL

[Stevros]

I personally quite like the Taimhvin, if you assume that he compelled the red sister to do the channelling that killed Mat et al, that red sister is then caught by the balefire that is used in the real world.

 

Then Rahvin escapes out of TAR just before the balefire hits him, explaining why Nynaeve thinks she sees him hit with the balefire, yet Rand still has his injuries from the fight in TAR yet Mat who died earlier is resurrected.

 

Then the description saying his soul is beyond saving in the LoC prologue is just the DO toying with the Forsaken to make them believe that he's truly dead, and to make them think that Rand is a serious threat to them to teach them caution.

[Stevros]

Taimanderson?

 

Way better than any of my suggestions!

[Barid Bel Medar]

Or Tai'al

 

Because surely Be'lal has to have more than just that, surely!

[Stevros]

Or Tai'al

 

Because surely Be'lal has to have more than just that, surely!

 

Taimarg because the DO could reincarnate a Trolloc in a human body.

[Neophyte]

Wait ... so Rahvin doesn't just escape, but switches himself with the "red sister" who actually killed Mat using with weaves of Fire and Air that Rand could sense, so a throwaway random woman wielding saidin ...

 

Awesome. Why the blood and bloody ashes not?

[Agravayne]

Taim is just Taim. He's turned to the Shadow for many of the same reasons as the original Forsaken.

[FanoLan]

Or Tai'al

 

Because surely Be'lal has to have more than just that, surely!

 

Taimarg because the DO could reincarnate a Trolloc in a human body.

Maz'ros?

Or is that a felony offense of breaking the fourth estate?

[thisguy]

Just finished my re-read.

 

Pevara's in the DT walking with Taim. Taim holds his hand behind his back, he looks at her and he has fire in his eyes (not the real thing obviously, but still....), and he is in possession of a dreamspike - presumably. There are only two we have seen in the book, both originally in the possession of Moridin. One we know was given to Graendel who gave it to Slayer. So, sorry if this has been asked and discussed to death - is Taim Moridin? Thoughts? Questions? Concerns?

 

Edit - I know he was raised to the Chosen, but is it a scam?

[Suttree]

Just finished my re-read.

 

Pevara's in the DT walking with Taim. Taim holds his hand behind his back, he looks at her and he has fire in his eyes (not the real thing obviously, but still....), and he is in possession of a dreamspike - presumably. There are only two we have seen in the book, both originally in the possession of Moridin. One we know was given to Graendel who gave it to Slayer. So, sorry if this has been asked and discussed to death - is Taim Moridin? Thoughts? Questions? Concerns?

 

Edit - I know he was raised to the Chosen, but is it a scam?

 

It has been discussed to death and even though there are numerous issues with the theory a few people were still holding on to it pre AMoL prologue. It was pretty much disproven for good when we see them together as Taim was made forsaken however.

 

One of the points against I have never seen contested is why Moridin woukd have allowed himself to be harried across half a continent("rode hard and put away wet" per RJ) by "savages" instead of just traveling there to reach Rand. RJ went into detail about why Taim needed to get to Andor. Again there were already numerous issues with the theory and adding the prologue to those should be the nail in the coffin. Taim has always been Taim. Sorry Drekka and Mik!!! ;)

[Terez]

I personally quite like the Taimhvin, if you assume that he compelled the red sister to do the channelling that killed Mat et al, that red sister is then caught by the balefire that is used in the real world.

 

Then Rahvin escapes out of TAR just before the balefire hits him, explaining why Nynaeve thinks she sees him hit with the balefire, yet Rand still has his injuries from the fight in TAR yet Mat who died earlier is resurrected.

 

Then the description saying his soul is beyond saving in the LoC prologue is just the DO toying with the Forsaken to make them believe that he's truly dead, and to make them think that Rand is a serious threat to them to teach them caution.

 

This actually came up on Theoryland the other day. Sorry for your luck.

 

Rahvin died, Rahvin is balefired out of time, slain out of time, cannot be reached, gone.

[thisguy]

Just finished my re-read.

 

Pevara's in the DT walking with Taim. Taim holds his hand behind his back, he looks at her and he has fire in his eyes (not the real thing obviously, but still....), and he is in possession of a dreamspike - presumably. There are only two we have seen in the book, both originally in the possession of Moridin. One we know was given to Graendel who gave it to Slayer. So, sorry if this has been asked and discussed to death - is Taim Moridin? Thoughts? Questions? Concerns?

 

Edit - I know he was raised to the Chosen, but is it a scam?

 

It has been discussed to death and even though there are numerous issues with the theory a few people were still holding on to it pre AMoL prologue. It was pretty much disproven for good when we see them together as Taim was made forsaken however.

 

One of the points against I have never seen contested is why Moridin woukd have allowed himself to be harried across half a continent("rode hard and put away wet" per RJ) by "savages" instead of just traveling there to reach Rand. RJ went into detail about why Taim needed to get to Andor. Again there were already numerous issues with the theory and adding the prologue to those should be the nail in the coffin. Taim has always been Taim. Sorry Drekka and Mik!!! ;)

 

I felt the same way. I think - think - I even said that the other day (Taim is Taim). Then within two pages of reading, I questioned myself. After reading those two pages, it seemed to make sense. He is Rand's opposite/nemesis, yet he's helped him numerous times. He's also taken a large number of the Ashaman - some by their own will, others turned. Just made sense when I read it. Probably is just that - Taim is Taim.

[hjustinpace]

Or Tai'al

 

Because surely Be'lal has to have more than just that, surely!

Or Tai'al

 

Because surely Be'lal has to have more than just that, surely!

 

I've always been surprised that Be'lal as Taim never gained any traction. It made more sense than most of the theories. Be'lal should have been eligible for transmigration due to little power being used for his balefiring, he didn't seem to have done anything to piss the DO off, the Taim is a Forsaken clues/red herrings would apply equally to Be'lal, Be'lal would now have a reason to hate Rand, etc.

[Terez]

RJ said Be'lal was permagone in the same interview; follow the link.

[Stevros]

RJ said Be'lal was permagone in the same interview; follow the link.

 

Has RJ ever said Narg is premagone or is that still a viable theory?

[FarShainMael]

No, no, no. Because of the Bore and the fact that the bore is best perceived, the Bore doesn't really exist in Shayol Ghul, the Bore exists everywhere, it's simply in Shayol Ghul where it can be perceived most easily. By the same token he has greater access to people at Shayol Ghul than he does elsewhere, or did, and uh, that's, when you know, Rahvin died, Rahvin is balefired out of time, slain out of time, cannot be reached, gone. Be'lal, (names someone else).

 

'Be'lal'.. what? 'cannot be reached either'? or 'on the other hand'?

[herid]

While I wish this RJ quote was more clear, there are other things that refute Taim=Be'lal.

 

Be'lal and Taim have different sigils.

 

Be'lal:

Nynaeve saw the sigil painted [on the carriage door]. A silver-gauntleted fist clutching jagged lightning bolts. She supposed it was High Lord Samon's [be’lal’s] sign...

 

- The Dragon Reborn, Bait For the Net

 

Taim:

Broad stone stairs rose to a wide landing in front of tall twinned doors. Each bore a gauntleted fist gripping three lightning bolts, carved large and gilded.

 

- Knife of Dreams, Epilogue

So Be'lal's sigil seems to only have two lightning bolts while Taim's got three (Sammael's has only one btw). Also Taim's sigil is gilded and Be'lal's is silver.

 

Also, Be'lal was a swordmaster and Taim has a marked disdain for swords.

[Neophyte]

No, no, no. Because of the Bore and the fact that the bore is best perceived, the Bore doesn't really exist in Shayol Ghul, the Bore exists everywhere, it's simply in Shayol Ghul where it can be perceived most easily. By the same token he has greater access to people at Shayol Ghul than he does elsewhere, or did, and uh, that's, when you know, Rahvin died, Rahvin is balefired out of time, slain out of time, cannot be reached, gone. Be'lal, (names someone else).

 

'Be'lal'.. what? 'cannot be reached either'? or 'on the other hand'?

 

Be'lal ... is an ice cream cone.

 

It's amazing what people will reach for. Be'lal is "balefired out of time, slain out of time, cannot be reached, gone." The meaning is pretty clear, especially in the context of the story where Rahvin and Be'lal were both killed by balefire, and a question about whom the Dark One can reach.

[FarShainMael]

And it's amazing how slippery RJ and BS can be with their answers..

 

I distrust any conclusions that are drawn from such incomplete information. As I tried to point out, that quote could have gone either way. We don't know. therefore, we can't say.

 

@herid: where does it say that the sigil Nynaeve saw had two lightning bolts? No number is mentioned in the quote you gave.

 

The gilding doesn't surprise me. Taim is clearly going 'one up', either on Be'lal if he was a separate person, or to show / give the impression he is growing in power.

[Terez]

Perhaps you can provide a comparable example from RJ? (Not Brandon, who is a very different beast.)