Spoilers! Chapter One - Eastwards the Winds Blew is up on Tor

[yoniy0]

I wonder if it is a Brandon or an RJ idea, seeing as how RJ died 2 months before the first Kindle was released.

Not sure if you're kidding; either way, it was in KoD.

 

Will Aviendha have time to do anything with Rand except warn him to take better care of the Aiel?

There's one thing in particular that I'm fairly certain she'll have time for. Min said so, after all.

[Barid Bel Medar]

There's one thing in particular that I'm fairly certain she'll have time for. Min said so, after all.

 

 

It is one thing that bothered me about the whole scenario, Aviendha's kids seem to be the cause of the whole mess. Why doesn't she just refuse to have children. I mean, she can still spend time with Rand and not get pregnant. If she cares that much, just don't have children.

 

(I'm not being that serious, I don't think it is a valid option. Plus, she would only use that as a last resort. If there was another way, she would prefer to do that. And I suspect with Min's viewings, it is all but inevitable, so she would think it a waste of time to try and go against the viewing.)

[Aquarius]

It is one thing that bothered me about the whole scenario, Aviendha's kids seem to be the cause of the whole mess. Why doesn't she just refuse to have children. I mean, she can still spend time with Rand and not get pregnant. If she cares that much, just don't have children.

 

(I'm not being that serious, I don't think it is a valid option. Plus, she would only use that as a last resort. If there was another way, she would prefer to do that. And I suspect with Min's viewings, it is all but inevitable, so she would think it a waste of time to try and go against the viewing.)

I wouldn't say that... Avi's kids are the right people at the right moment to make that call (wether to start an all-out war or not), but the way the last battle came and went, the way the peace treaty was written, and thus the way the Aiel spent the next 20 years have nothing or very little to do with Avi's kids. Clan chiefs, other wise ones would have made the same decision at roughly the same time. It seems to me that they all prett much agree on that during that meeting.

[FarShainMael]

Of course that means demandred may have had the chance to weave compulsion on some of the band or even talmanes

 

Or he placed a finder weave on the pipe Talmanes received just like Moiraine did to the coins given to the groms in EotW.

 

I'm only up to page 10, so someone else may have said this, but Talmanes in the Prologue noted that he'd left his best pipe outside the city.. something about it being 'bad luck' to carry it into battle..

[FarShainMael]

weird to see rand wearing Laman's sword and not Justice?

 

Laman's sword was more a reminder of Aviendha, she hasn't been with him in awhile, and she personally gave him the sword. Remember, he was shocked to sense Aviendha suddenly in the camp.

 

thanks :)

 

I'm wondering if Rand gave/will give Justice to Mat, to use when he goes to see the Seanchan.

[Neophyte]

I'm wondering if Rand gave/will give Justice to Mat, to use when he goes to see the Seanchan.

 

I'm not sure that would have any impact. Rand wore it his meeting with Tuon, and she didn't even notice/recognize it, much less was she influenced by his having it.

[FarShainMael]

I don't understand why Perrin still seems to be trying to hide his Wolfbrotherliness from Rand. Why not just say "smell," instead of "...seem?" I mean, he's already outed himself to his entire army, from Two Rivers folks to Whitecloaks, so why not just get it out in the open with Rand?

 

At the very least, Rand will have noticed that his eyes have changed colour..

 

(still catching up, sorry)

[thisguy]

I don't understand why Perrin still seems to be trying to hide his Wolfbrotherliness from Rand. Why not just say "smell," instead of "...seem?" I mean, he's already outed himself to his entire army, from Two Rivers folks to Whitecloaks, so why not just get it out in the open with Rand?

 

At the very least, Rand will have noticed that his eyes have changed colour..

 

(still catching up, sorry)

 

I agree. I hope Perrin stops hiding what he is. I want him to call the wolves gathered at Dragonmount to come to him at Merrilor and howl like a mofo in front of everyone. He should just be like "What? What? I gotta million wolves, biatches! What did you bring? 70,000 troops and a million wolves! Wassup?! AND, I got another million wolves in the Dream World. Any of you have any animal friends in the dream world? No? What's up!?"

 

Seriously.

[FarShainMael]

I'm wondering if Rand gave/will give Justice to Mat, to use when he goes to see the Seanchan.

 

I'm not sure that would have any impact. Rand wore it his meeting with Tuon, and she didn't even notice/recognize it, much less was she influenced by his having it.

 

Possibly all she saw was the black scabbard with the dragon, which was not an unlikely thing for the Dragon Reborn to wear, so she nay not have made the connection.. but let Mat bare that blade with a few well-chosen words in the Old Tongue, and things might be different.

[Neophyte]

I'm wondering if Rand gave/will give Justice to Mat, to use when he goes to see the Seanchan.

 

I'm not sure that would have any impact. Rand wore it his meeting with Tuon, and she didn't even notice/recognize it, much less was she influenced by his having it.

 

Possibly all she saw was the black scabbard with the dragon, which was not an unlikely thing for the Dragon Reborn to wear, so she nay not have made the connection.. but let Mat bare that blade with a few well-chosen words in the Old Tongue, and things might be different.

 

Meh. I'm not sure what difference having Hawkwing's sword would make. It's just a piece of Power-wrought metal. Would the Seanchan be somehow compelled to follow the holder of Hawkwing's blade? That seems really ... Disneyish. Or perhaps like this:

 

"Come on Tuon, Rand really needs our help."

 

"Matrim, the Dragon Reborn is a creature of darkness. He must bow before the Crystal Throne according to our prophecies. The Empress does not follow such a ..."

 

Mat draws sword and shakes it at Fortuona. "The Power of Hawkwing compels you! The Power of Hawkwing compels you!"

 

"Dang it. OK, we'll follow him."

[b3arz3rg3r]

I'm wondering if Rand gave/will give Justice to Mat, to use when he goes to see the Seanchan.

 

I'm not sure that would have any impact. Rand wore it his meeting with Tuon, and she didn't even notice/recognize it, much less was she influenced by his having it.

 

Possibly all she saw was the black scabbard with the dragon, which was not an unlikely thing for the Dragon Reborn to wear, so she nay not have made the connection.. but let Mat bare that blade with a few well-chosen words in the Old Tongue, and things might be different.

 

Meh. I'm not sure what difference having Hawkwing's sword would make. It's just a piece of Power-wrought metal. Would the Seanchan be somehow compelled to follow the holder of Hawkwing's blade? That seems really ... Disneyish. Or perhaps like this:

 

"Come on Tuon, Rand really needs our help."

 

"Matrim, the Dragon Reborn is a creature of darkness. He must bow before the Crystal Throne according to our prophecies. The Empress does not follow such a ..."

 

Mat draws sword and shakes it at Fortuona. "The Power of Hawkwing compels you! The Power of Hawkwing compels you!"

 

"Dang it. OK, we'll follow him."

 

There's no need for Mat to bring the Seanchan to Rand from what I see and thus no need for such a ridiculous scene. The war will take place on two fronts. One up at the Blight and the other in and around Andor. We already know that there are trollocs in Seanchan controlled lands though we haven't seen many of them. Mat leading the Seanchan against the Shadowspawn in the Westlands while Rand and his troops fight at the Blight. Borderlanders and Aiel- the North and East- fighting together against Moridin's forces while the South and West- Seanchan, Illian, Tear- fight against those who are under Demandred's command.

[Neophyte]

There's no need for Mat to bring the Seanchan to Rand from what I see and thus no need for such a ridiculous scene. The war will take place on two fronts. One up at the Blight and the other in and around Andor. We already know that there are trollocs in Seanchan controlled lands though we haven't seen many of them. Mat leading the Seanchan against the Shadowspawn in the Westlands while Rand and his troops fight at the Blight. Borderlanders and Aiel- the North and East- fighting together against Moridin's forces while the South and West- Seanchan, Illian, Tear- fight against those who are under Demandred's command.

 

Under that scenario, there's no need for Mat to have Artur Hawkwing's sword, either. That was the only need I was commenting upon.

 

Although frankly, there will have to be some kind of accomodation. Rand is, according to the Karaethon Cycle, supposed to "bind the nine moons to serve him." Since Tuon was the "Daughter of the Nine Moons" before her accession, it seems likely that either she personally or the Seanchan Empire as a whole is "the nine moons." And of course, according to the Essanik Cycle, the Dragon Reborn has to kneel before the Crystal Throne.

 

So, there will be at least one more meeting between Rand and Fortuona. It won't be as simple as "Mat, you take the Seanchan to deal with X. I'm going north."

[thisguy]

There's no need for Mat to bring the Seanchan to Rand from what I see and thus no need for such a ridiculous scene. The war will take place on two fronts. One up at the Blight and the other in and around Andor. We already know that there are trollocs in Seanchan controlled lands though we haven't seen many of them. Mat leading the Seanchan against the Shadowspawn in the Westlands while Rand and his troops fight at the Blight. Borderlanders and Aiel- the North and East- fighting together against Moridin's forces while the South and West- Seanchan, Illian, Tear- fight against those who are under Demandred's command.

 

Under that scenario, there's no need for Mat to have Artur Hawkwing's sword, either. That was the only need I was commenting upon.

 

Although frankly, there will have to be some kind of accomodation. Rand is, according to the Karaethon Cycle, supposed to "bind the nine moons to serve him." Since Tuon was the "Daughter of the Nine Moons" before her accession, it seems likely that either she personally or the Seanchan Empire as a whole is "the nine moons." And of course, according to the Essanik Cycle, the Dragon Reborn has to kneel before the Crystal Throne.

 

So, there will be at least one more meeting between Rand and Fortuona. It won't be as simple as "Mat, you take the Seanchan to deal with X. I'm going north."

I agree. Or, if that is the way it goes down, I'll be disappointed. Personally, I think Tuon is going to use Saidar at some point to save Mat, in front of a lot of witnesses.

 

But, back to the point - yup, gotta bind the 9 moons. Mat's marriage is not enough, in my opinion.

[FarShainMael]

 

You can apply that to the White Tower as well.

 

What is their purpose going to be after the DO is sealed away? It won't be to guard against the Shadow.

 

Whatever purpose they find, it will most likely be the same for the WT and the BT.

 

The optimist in me want to say that they are supposed to be Aes Sedai - Servants of All. There will plenty of service to be done in rebuilding the world after Tarmon Gai'don. But they'll probably become the focus of resistance to the Seanchan.

 

"The great battle done, but the world not done with battle."

[Neophyte]

You can apply that to the White Tower as well.

 

What is their purpose going to be after the DO is sealed away? It won't be to guard against the Shadow.

 

Whatever purpose they find, it will most likely be the same for the WT and the BT.

 

The optimist in me want to say that they are supposed to be Aes Sedai - Servants of All. There will plenty of service to be done in rebuilding the world after Tarmon Gai'don. But they'll probably become the focus of resistance to the Seanchan.

 

"The great battle done, but the world not done with battle."

 

Well, the world will not ever be permanently done with battle. But I agree that the aftermath of Tarmon Gai'don will not be a peaceful one for very long (a couple of decades qualifies as "not very long" in my book), and I think that the White Tower and the Seanchan Empire will be on the opposite side of whatever conflict arises.

 

I'm not sure what point you were trying to make - that excerpt of Nicola's Foretelling isn't terribly informative without some kind of context - so I'll assume you were agreeing with me until you say otherwise.

[FarShainMael]

I've just caught up with the rest of you so haven't read most of this thread - so sorry if it's already been mentioned but I just had to post this..

 

“We have unfortunately found nothing pertinent in your library ter’angreal.” The statue of the smiling bearded man had nearly caused a riot in the Tower; every sister had wanted to read the thousands of books that it held.

 

Yes, this is what's referred to elsewhere as the Kindle ter'angreal, made in the shape of a RJ statuette.

 

I wonder if it is a Brandon or an RJ idea, seeing as how RJ died 2 months before the first Kindle was released.

 

It was the Aes Sedai reaction that made me laugh.. Was it Luckers who mentioned a 'feeding frenzy' on these boards.....? I think BS was having a little gentle fun with the fandom!

[FarShainMael]

You can apply that to the White Tower as well.

 

What is their purpose going to be after the DO is sealed away? It won't be to guard against the Shadow.

 

Whatever purpose they find, it will most likely be the same for the WT and the BT.

 

The optimist in me want to say that they are supposed to be Aes Sedai - Servants of All. There will plenty of service to be done in rebuilding the world after Tarmon Gai'don. But they'll probably become the focus of resistance to the Seanchan.

 

"The great battle done, but the world not done with battle."

 

Well, the world will not ever be permanently done with battle. But I agree that the aftermath of Tarmon Gai'don will not be a peaceful one for very long (a couple of decades qualifies as "not very long" in my book), and I think that the White Tower and the Seanchan Empire will be on the opposite side of whatever conflict arises.

 

I'm not sure what point you were trying to make - that excerpt of Nicola's Foretelling isn't terribly informative without some kind of context - so I'll assume you were agreeing with me until you say otherwise.

 

I agree with your first paragraph here, certainly.

[BFG]

This is something I've been wondering and it may seem really stupid - Tuon was the daughter of the nine moons, Rand needs to bind the nine moons, so are the nine moons the same as the daughter of? The only other (that I can remember) time we've heard nine moons in a prophecy type thing is when Mat is told that he will marry the daughter of the nine moons. So maybe Tuon is now the nine moons and thus now is when Rand needs to bind her, if so helps to explain why she managed to resist last time - she still hadn't declared herself Fortuona and thus wasn't yet the nine moons he needed to bind.

 

EDIT - a lot of people posted in the time it took me to catch up - this is in response to ThisGuy at 538

[thisguy]

• Not working for me either... Is it because I am in Europe?
  

 

Nah it's not working for anyone. Hence I'm trying to distract you all from rage with dry wit.

 

 

You are failing sir. I am now seriously considering annoying my brother to distract myself.

 

Bela is the Neigh'blis.

 

Randy pandy puddeny pie kissed the girls and made them cry--because it was girls plural. That bastard.

 

'I've read this book. Don't you die at the end?' --Rand, to the Dark One.

 

Nice one!

[thisguy]

This is something I've been wondering and it may seem really stupid - Tuon was the daughter of the nine moons, Rand needs to bind the nine moons, so are the nine moons the same as the daughter of? The only other (that I can remember) time we've heard nine moons in a prophecy type thing is when Mat is told that he will marry the daughter of the nine moons. So maybe Tuon is now the nine moons and thus now is when Rand needs to bind her, if so helps to explain why she managed to resist last time - she still hadn't declared herself Fortuona and thus wasn't yet the nine moons he needed to bind.

 

EDIT - a lot of people posted in the time it took me to catch up - this is in response to ThisGuy at 538

 

Very good point. I don't know if the Empress is actually called The 9 Moons or if the title is just for the heir apparent. Either way, good thinking, man.

[Sid]

This is something I've been wondering and it may seem really stupid - Tuon was the daughter of the nine moons, Rand needs to bind the nine moons, so are the nine moons the same as the daughter of? The only other (that I can remember) time we've heard nine moons in a prophecy type thing is when Mat is told that he will marry the daughter of the nine moons. So maybe Tuon is now the nine moons and thus now is when Rand needs to bind her, if so helps to explain why she managed to resist last time - she still hadn't declared herself Fortuona and thus wasn't yet the nine moons he needed to bind.

 

EDIT - a lot of people posted in the time it took me to catch up - this is in response to ThisGuy at 538

I honestly don't think that her being only the DotNM when they met is the sole reason why she resisted him. It's more likely that the fact that she would resist him is why the prophecy itself was worded as it was. I was thinking about that when I read the chapter for the first time, and wasn't surprised when things didn't work out. I've never heard of the Empress being called 'the Nine Moons' specifically, but her court is called the 'court of the Nine Moons' and Tuon was the Daughter of the Nine Moons.

 

And Thisguy just responded 10 seconds before I was going to post

[thisguy]

This is something I've been wondering and it may seem really stupid - Tuon was the daughter of the nine moons, Rand needs to bind the nine moons, so are the nine moons the same as the daughter of? The only other (that I can remember) time we've heard nine moons in a prophecy type thing is when Mat is told that he will marry the daughter of the nine moons. So maybe Tuon is now the nine moons and thus now is when Rand needs to bind her, if so helps to explain why she managed to resist last time - she still hadn't declared herself Fortuona and thus wasn't yet the nine moons he needed to bind.

 

EDIT - a lot of people posted in the time it took me to catch up - this is in response to ThisGuy at 538

I honestly don't think that her being only the DotNM when they met is the sole reason why she resisted him. It's more likely that the fact that she would resist him is why the prophecy itself was worded as it was. I was thinking about that when I read the chapter for the first time, and wasn't surprised when things didn't work out. I've never heard of the Empress being called 'the Nine Moons' specifically, but her court is called the 'court of the Nine Moons' and Tuon was the Daughter of the Nine Moons.

 

And Thisguy just responded 10 seconds before I was going to post

 

I agree that it wasn't the sole reason. I feel the fact that he was Dark Rand at the time had a lot to do with it. She saw the darkness creeping out of him and was totally creeped out by it. I always thought that is how she resisted. But, BFG's lock in on the language still holds. As we both said - don't know if the Empress is the Nine Moons, but it would make sense for the wording of the Prophecy.

[BFG]

This is something I've been wondering and it may seem really stupid - Tuon was the daughter of the nine moons, Rand needs to bind the nine moons, so are the nine moons the same as the daughter of? The only other (that I can remember) time we've heard nine moons in a prophecy type thing is when Mat is told that he will marry the daughter of the nine moons. So maybe Tuon is now the nine moons and thus now is when Rand needs to bind her, if so helps to explain why she managed to resist last time - she still hadn't declared herself Fortuona and thus wasn't yet the nine moons he needed to bind.

 

EDIT - a lot of people posted in the time it took me to catch up - this is in response to ThisGuy at 538

I honestly don't think that her being only the DotNM when they met is the sole reason why she resisted him. It's more likely that the fact that she would resist him is why the prophecy itself was worded as it was. I was thinking about that when I read the chapter for the first time, and wasn't surprised when things didn't work out. I've never heard of the Empress being called 'the Nine Moons' specifically, but her court is called the 'court of the Nine Moons' and Tuon was the Daughter of the Nine Moons.

 

And Thisguy just responded 10 seconds before I was going to post

 

I've made the same argument - that the pattern needed Tuon to refuse, the idea of Rand with Tuons backing is just scary. I was just wondering if it helped, when they met neither prophecy, foretelling or pattern needed Tuon to bow (possible it worked the other way as well - Essanik cycle has Ran dkneeling before the Crystal Throne (wording?) but Tuon didn't represent the Crystal Throne until after the meeting.

[TootThatHorn]

In response to Justice, and the scenario of not needing to give it to Mat, it kind of makes it a moot point to even have the sword show up if it has no purpose (I'm not positive Mat will have Justice). Just as soon have Rand keep Laman's sword for sentimental sake. I mean Justice really did pop in out of nowhere so maybe it is a plot device that needed to show up real quick. I wouldn't expect it to just cause the seanchan to bow down but why not be a bargaining chip? It would certainly be a revered relic/heirloom.

[Hopefire]

I'd like to see Rand give one of his swords to his father. There's some symmetry in that.