Spoilers! Chapter One - Eastwards the Winds Blew is up on Tor

[Rocky_Outcrop]

This thread is appalling, I think he who comes with a bong will be missed around here. I can't stand reading the posts where people complain about something then later realise it wasn't worth complaining about. Theres a real outcry for verbosity (eg that post with the fanfic additions) and frankly that's not going to happen so please get over it.

 

I agree that there are posts on here that are very adolescent and to me they're inane. I think there is a nest mentality going on here (True Blood anyone?).

 

I acknowledge that the books are very important and it's a part of your childhood and now adult life that you feel has been besmirched. It could be that these books are now a little too juvenile for some people too.

 

This is such a confused message board, are we all fans? I'm not sure.

 

I've a bunch of things I'd like to say here but I can't quite get the patronising 'dear' Luckers said earlier to a person who was giving him the same chat he gives Brandon - 'you can do better so do better' - the way he couldn't handle it epitomises the duality of everything here.

 

God, writing this post was so boring.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Hmm, if I ever saw an attempt to appease fans this was it.The fixed wine comment, Rand explaining why he had asked Perrin again about the 2 Rivers etc. Every character is so reasonable it gives me a toothache. That way no fanbase can complain too much about their character, well that is probably BS rationale. But the thing is when were WOT characters ever reasonable?

 

Why is Rand all hard again all of a sudden? Wasn't TOM big on him giving up trying to suppress his feelings like an Aes Sedai and yet according to Perrin and himself he is doing exactly that. It's as if both Rand and Egwene took a big step back from how they were in TOM. Though in Egwene's case that is a good thing I guess.

 

Lol, Talmanes got saved, I knew it. Though that Moiraine comparison was ridiculous. Talmanes was way way way way way worse off than Tam ever was.

 

Serenia appears to be a new character, a la Melten.

Oh great. We couldn't get one of the hundreds RJ already named?

[Re: Waygates - The four Aes Sedai mentioned by Loial may simply not have had enough power - we don't know that there is requirement for 13 people, just that 13 linked + sa'angreal is the greatest amount of power that Aes Sedai can generate under normal circumstances. But Rand with the Choedan Kal has far more power than 13 Aes Sedai with a normal sa'angreal.

Unlikely that its a power issue. Any four of todays AS when linked can do anything Rand can. Why, four kinswomen managed to make a gateways as large as his, and they were all too weak to be Accepted. Aes Sedai tended to be stronger in the Trolloc Wars.

 

This is really a bad comparison. The size of Gateways is specifically mentioned to be limited by the number of people who open it. Rand only needs a fraction of his strength to create the largest Gateway possible for any single man. Rand is stronger than most four combined Aes Sedai. If Nynaeve, Elayne, Cadsuane and Egwene linked I would assume they would be stronger than he is, but short of those four most combinations would be weaker. There is another Loial quote when he compares Rand to Guaire Amalasan and one of the other famous False Dragons and says how they each overcame six Aes Sedai and like you said back then they tended to be stronger on average.

 

That said it wasn't four Aes Sedai who tried to destroy the Waygate, it was nine.

[Rocky_Outcrop]

Rand is LTT, LTT is AS, AS for hundreds of years, Perrin wanted raw emotion. Rand wasn't hard Rand. No blackness around him, Perrin just couldn't smell his emotions. Was a Rand POV so no thoughts from Perrin like 'wish I could smell his emotions' only the dialogue. This has annoyed you, oh well...... Better complain cause Rand was totally not himself there......? What do you want, some bubbling fool I guess.

[Rocky_Outcrop]

there was enough alliteration that I started to notice it.

 

You normally don't notice alliteration.

 

Ok, most people do notice it almost all of the time.

[Rocky_Outcrop]

Is it bad that I want BS to see fionwe's post?

 

Yes and no, it's constructive but hoping it aloud like that is bad decorum, plus Brandon is receptive and you could write to him.

 

Plus I didn't like it so I think it would be best if Brandon didn't read fanfic which is part of a negative thread like this. Probably.

[Vardar]

Is it just me or is your avatar deliberately phallic?

 

The guy with the little paper warrior? I've been wondering that for weeks and never said anything because no one else commented and I didn't want to seem odd.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Rand is LTT, LTT is AS, AS for hundreds of years, Perrin wanted raw emotion. Rand wasn't hard Rand. No blackness around him, Perrin just couldn't smell his emotions. Was a Rand POV so no thoughts from Perrin like 'wish I could smell his emotions' only the dialogue. This has annoyed you, oh well...... Better complain cause Rand was totally not himself there......? What do you want, some bubbling fool I guess.

 

Seriously, get with the program. This is a forum where we debate the books, and in this thread we're discussing the first chapter, so of course I'm going to tell my opinion of what I noticed and that includes criticism. You can tell me why I'm wrong and I'll think about your arguments, but this attitude of yours that we can't talk about what we consider mistakes is really irritating. Sure, I admit many of us take it too far because they are overly sensitive. For example you won't ever find me arguing about good or bad prose, stylistic devices or disecting every word and measuring it up against the holy RJ scale, but this hardness issue has been very central to Rand's character, so I see nothing wrong with me picking up on it.

[Rocky_Outcrop]

Yes, but what did you want? He was in character. Also am I not discussing this with you? My opinion is he was in character and it was Perrin wanting to smell his emotions that has got you thinking he was too hard. I don't think he was too hard, I think he controls his emotions in the way they control their need to sweat, subconsciously, and Perrin just wanted front row seats on Rands hypo campus.

[he who comes with a bong]

+ 1 on being missed lol now back to trollin

[elmis]

And are you claiming that four Aes Sedai linked can do anything Rand can do with the Choedan Kal? I did, you'll remember, specifically mention him using that. Are you sure that's what you meant to say?

Nope. That is not what I meant to say. I meant Rand unaided. Anyway, turns out it was nine Aes Sedai, with no mention whether a sa'angreal was present or not:

 

To be fair, Rand has already destroyed one Waygate using the Choedan Kal, but he was linked with Nynaeve using her Choedan Kal at the time. The end result might have been bad to in a populated city though.

[NitroS]

This thread is appalling, I think he who comes with a bong will be missed around here. I can't stand reading the posts where people complain about something then later realise it wasn't worth complaining about. Theres a real outcry for verbosity (eg that post with the fanfic additions) and frankly that's not going to happen so please get over it.

 

I agree that there are posts on here that are very adolescent and to me they're inane. I think there is a nest mentality going on here (True Blood anyone?).

 

I acknowledge that the books are very important and it's a part of your childhood and now adult life that you feel has been besmirched. It could be that these books are now a little too juvenile for some people too.

 

This is such a confused message board, are we all fans? I'm not sure.

 

I've a bunch of things I'd like to say here but I can't quite get the patronising 'dear' Luckers said earlier to a person who was giving him the same chat he gives Brandon - 'you can do better so do better' - the way he couldn't handle it epitomises the duality of everything here.

 

God, writing this post was so boring.

 

You must be new to forums because when ever someone ever says they arent going to post on a forum anymore that normally means they want attention and are trying to get people to change. (as demonstrated in this thread where the claim was made then 2 more posts happened in mere hours of the claim)

 

Its a forum about a book series if people dont like something or want to talk about certain ways they think the chapter could have been done differently they are free to as long as they stick to the forum rules. If you dont like it make your own thread specifically asking for no critiscism and only happy things to be said in the thread. Even tho brandon has done a decent job he has failed on many levels and the fans of the series are allowed to express that.

[Luckers]

Okay, enough. These comments are more than bordering on personal attacks from both sides. Let's at least make a gesture at being polite, shall we?

[he who comes with a bong]

I know i said i wasnt going to post anymore but most times i post because i belive in common curtisey. Someone says my name in here im going to post in response, its a nice thing to do at least i think. And i really do not have anything better to do most days other than keep my household clean and bake stuff. So maybee i wont post or maybee i will im not out to get any attention i get enough of that from the wife and my kids. Most times i just read and shake my head, but now and then something comes along that i will post on.

 

I have one question what the hell is this Nightcrawler thing everyone in talking about ive read the chapter 4 times now and have not seen it at all?

[MasterAblar]

I know i said i wasnt going to post anymore but most times i post because i belive in common curtisey. Someone says my name in here im going to post in response, its a nice thing to do at least i think. And i really do not have anything better to do most days other than keep my household clean and bake stuff. So maybee i wont post or maybee i will im not out to get any attention i get enough of that from the wife and my kids. Most times i just read and shake my head, but now and then something comes along that i will post on.

 

I have one question what the hell is this Nightcrawler thing everyone in talking about ive read the chapter 4 times now and have not seen it at all?

 

Kert Wagoner----> Kurt Wagner=Nightcrawler from X-Men.

[Tyzack]

Just finished; pretty good and a great read.

 

The only thing I will nit pick on is when did Brigette start wearing a sword? [i'm only up to PoD in my re-read so maybe she gets one?]

 

Other than that, I loved it. I really liked Rand and Perrin's interaction; it reminded me much more of the early book Rand and Perrins than the often testy exchanges later on.

[he who comes with a bong]

I know i said i wasnt going to post anymore but most times i post because i belive in common curtisey. Someone says my name in here im going to post in response, its a nice thing to do at least i think. And i really do not have anything better to do most days other than keep my household clean and bake stuff. So maybee i wont post or maybee i will im not out to get any attention i get enough of that from the wife and my kids. Most times i just read and shake my head, but now and then something comes along that i will post on.

 

I have one question what the hell is this Nightcrawler thing everyone in talking about ive read the chapter 4 times now and have not seen it at all?

 

Kert Wagoner----> Kurt Wagner=Nightcrawler from X-Men.

 

O ok i get it now lol. Didnt read any xmen stuff ever, so thats why it went right over my head i guess.

[Glokta]

Perrin just couldn't smell his emotions.

 

I don't think the book says Perrin could not smell Rand's emotions, but that that he could not smell his madness. He says “Well, you still seem like yourself". Which I interpreted as a good sign as Perrin's sense of smell has always been reliable.

[Rocky_Outcrop]

@NitroS fair enough, good point, mr Bong or myself or anyone else could start such a thread.

 

I guess I'm mostly worried that the persuasive arguments that people make about their perceived problems will create a reinforcing effect. Plus this is a forum for the discussion of the series and I understand that means you can very much be a fan of the series and not a fan of Brandon Sanderson. The criticism levelled at Brandon is done under the guise of constructive criticism when In fact it is a comparison of only Brandon's negative points versus only Jordan's positive points, of which there are many I do not doubt, but it is an unbalanced discussion presented in a starkly negative light. The result is that threads like this appear to be a place for people to collate their angst into lists with the aim of simply making a comprehensive and complete list of the faults rather than to actually discuss the merits and flaws in an organic way. Possibly I'm mad. I do believe that the lack of effort put into the real nitty gritty of the discussion (as opposed to the flippant and easily made remarks about the chapter) is representation of the deflation of people's hopes for the series given that this is the last book ever and now those who are not fans of Brandon have no hope and as such are impacting negatively on my ability to discuss the content, not to mention of my enjoyment from doing so. I know that with each book that comes out there is a lot of discussion, not all positive or negative, and that this disseminates almost the entire book. That's not what I'm referring to, I know that like Rand in the WoT lives multiple lives that we in these forums will discuss the books multiple times, but some people are like dark Rand and only see the negative. I'm trying to encourage people to think about why, to choose how they discuss it and what we all get from it. Maybe someone who posts or someone lurking will read this and see what I mean, there is a choice here, like the choice Rand had to make, about why we do things.

 

Anyway, I no longer wish to discuss these points though as I've said it so often already and it severely clutters up these threads.

 

 

[Neophyte]

Perrin just couldn't smell his emotions.

 

I don't think the book says Perrin could not smell Rand's emotions, but that that he could not smell his madness. He says “Well, you still seem like yourself". Which I interpreted as a good sign as Perrin's sense of smell has always been reliable.

 

Yes - that seemed to imply, to me, that the "liquid light" was completely "covering" the taint-madness. Even the keenest sense of smell can't detect something that is, in essence, hermetically sealed.

[MarkDiLillo]

@NitroS fair enough, good point, mr Bong or myself or anyone else could start such a thread.

 

I guess I'm mostly worried that the persuasive arguments that people make about their perceived problems will create a reinforcing effect. Plus this is a forum for the discussion of the series and I understand that means you can very much be a fan of the series and not a fan of Brandon Sanderson. The criticism levelled at Brandon is done under the guise of constructive criticism when In fact it is a comparison of only Brandon's negative points versus only Jordan's positive points, of which there are many I do not doubt, but it is an unbalanced discussion presented in a starkly negative light. The result is that threads like this appear to be a place for people to collate their angst into lists with the aim of simply making a comprehensive and complete list of the faults rather than to actually discuss the merits and flaws in an organic way. Possibly I'm mad. I do believe that the lack of effort put into the real nitty gritty of the discussion (as opposed to the flippant and easily made remarks about the chapter) is representation of the deflation of people's hopes for the series given that this is the last book ever and now those who are not fans of Brandon have no hope and as such are impacting negatively on my ability to discuss the content, not to mention of my enjoyment from doing so. I know that with each book that comes out there is a lot of discussion, not all positive or negative, and that this disseminates almost the entire book. That's not what I'm referring to, I know that like Rand in the WoT lives multiple lives that we in these forums will discuss the books multiple times, but some people are like dark Rand and only see the negative. I'm trying to encourage people to think about why, to choose how they discuss it and what we all get from it. Maybe someone who posts or someone lurking will read this and see what I mean, there is a choice here, like the choice Rand had to make, about why we do things.

 

Anyway, I no longer wish to discuss these points though as I've said it so often already and it severely clutters up these threads.

 

Read the 20 page thread on Brandons work and youll see that your observations are simply not true except when applied to this thread alone. People are trying to avoid ruining this thread with an in depth discussion about BS and his work quality.

[Rocky_Outcrop]

Perrin just couldn't smell his emotions.

 

I don't think the book says Perrin could not smell Rand's emotions, but that that he could not smell his madness. He says “Well, you still seem like yourself". Which I interpreted as a good sign as Perrin's sense of smell has always been reliable.

 

True, that is a good sign indeed. I hadn't really thought about it, but Rand passing the smell test is a good sign! What I was meaning is that when Perrin says he needs to speak to the real Rand not the AS that what he is saying is he can't smell his emotions. Perrin has never been good, or shall we say confident, at reading emotions from the things people say so he relys on the smell. Meanwhile, Rand has some really important stuff to do and needs to stay emotionally balanced at all times. So on the one hand one poster here said they thought Rand was hard all I was saying is that Rand is focused on being balanced all the time, not too hard not to soft, and I supposes that means he is not being 'himself'. In the way that we all would be if we knew we were going to die and had to tell everyone the world is about to break. Perrin wants to back Rand but needs to smell his emotions before he can commit so asks Rand to let his guard down for a sec.

[Rocky_Outcrop]

@NitroS fair enough, good point, mr Bong or myself or anyone else could start such a thread.

 

I guess I'm mostly worried that the persuasive arguments that people make about their perceived problems will create a reinforcing effect. Plus this is a forum for the discussion of the series and I understand that means you can very much be a fan of the series and not a fan of Brandon Sanderson. The criticism levelled at Brandon is done under the guise of constructive criticism when In fact it is a comparison of only Brandon's negative points versus only Jordan's positive points, of which there are many I do not doubt, but it is an unbalanced discussion presented in a starkly negative light. The result is that threads like this appear to be a place for people to collate their angst into lists with the aim of simply making a comprehensive and complete list of the faults rather than to actually discuss the merits and flaws in an organic way. Possibly I'm mad. I do believe that the lack of effort put into the real nitty gritty of the discussion (as opposed to the flippant and easily made remarks about the chapter) is representation of the deflation of people's hopes for the series given that this is the last book ever and now those who are not fans of Brandon have no hope and as such are impacting negatively on my ability to discuss the content, not to mention of my enjoyment from doing so. I know that with each book that comes out there is a lot of discussion, not all positive or negative, and that this disseminates almost the entire book. That's not what I'm referring to, I know that like Rand in the WoT lives multiple lives that we in these forums will discuss the books multiple times, but some people are like dark Rand and only see the negative. I'm trying to encourage people to think about why, to choose how they discuss it and what we all get from it. Maybe someone who posts or someone lurking will read this and see what I mean, there is a choice here, like the choice Rand had to make, about why we do things.

 

Anyway, I no longer wish to discuss these points though as I've said it so often already and it severely clutters up these threads.

 

Read the 20 page thread on Brandons work and youll see that your observations are simply not true except when applied to this thread alone. People are trying to avoid ruining this thread with an in depth discussion about BS and his work quality.

 

Ok well then +1 for the valid point. Edited to add here that I have witnessed this phenomenon on other threads too but yes valid point I am totally satisfied that I've made my points and thanks for responding. I actually will read posts in this and other threads more positively by baring this info in mind.

[Glokta]

Hmm, if I ever saw an attempt to appease fans this was it.The fixed wine comment, Rand explaining why he had asked Perrin again about the 2 Rivers etc. Every character is so reasonable it gives me a toothache. That way no fanbase can complain too much about their character, well that is probably BS rationale. But the thing is when were WOT characters ever reasonable?

 

 

+1 with this... It does feel strange to have characters actually communicating with each other and not being incredibly stubborn!

 

But if, as Rand says, they need to be united to face the DO, so it is about time they start communicating... The characters changes or evolutions would have been done differently (read more subtly) by RJ, but it is BS we have to take us to the end of the story... sigh...

[he who comes with a bong]

Yah Rand even says "that he has the madness in his grip" . So he is still nutball crazy but he is holding it at bay somehow, I think he will go back to being Dark Rand before the end of the book once one of his either 3 ladies or Perrin or Mat dies. It will be the icing on the cake so to say. Calm cool and collective then bam or his rocker and laying waste to anyone. Ive been there i kinda know how it works. You think that yah you are good to go then something little comes along and sets you off then its shitballs crazy, you end up doing stuff like taking a baseball bat to a tv for no reason or a cricket paddle for the Auzzies. What Rand needs is a good Shrink i know it helped me out in the past and still does when i need someone to talk to. Maybee thats the role Moraine will play for him.

[Rocky_Outcrop]

@bongface, aye you're right about M's role. I think that Rand gets a bit of that from Perrin in this chapter. Just communicating rather than being a man alone is a help. When Perrin and Mat die then he will need Moiraine... Hope they don't die though!