Big Demandred news

[MarkDiLillo]

That just seems underwhelming. I mean, sure, it is effective and would be important, but considering that he's been in hiding for all this time and has been making the DO very happy...it seems like he would have something else up his sleeve. That doesn't seem to show or explain his absence for the entire series. It more or less indicates that he has been hanging out in his castle all day just recruiting soldiers and waiting for the last battle.

 

I would like to think that with the big buildup of his character that he is going to surprise us with more than just "aha, i helped destroy caemlyn!". Caemlyn was basically toast anyways considering the BT is sitting on top of it and is filled with dreadlords.

 

It just feels like there is going to be more to Demandred and he was operating on a grander scale.

[Terez]

That just seems underwhelming.

 

The destruction of the Light's forces and the death of the Dragon Reborn is 'underwhelming'? You might need to lower your expectations a bit.

 

I mean, sure, it is effective and would be important, but considering that he's been in hiding for all this time and has been making the DO very happy...it seems like he would have something else up his sleeve.

 

Like what?

 

That doesn't seem to show or explain his absence for the entire series.

 

Do we really need an explanation for that beyond the obvious?

 

It more or less indicates that he has been hanging out in his castle all day just recruiting soldiers and waiting for the last battle.

 

He's not just waiting for it. He's planning for it. That's what generals do.

[thisguy]

I don't think Demandred needs a bigger game than Caemlyn; his intentions work well enough in the Caemlyn context, especially if he can draw the bulk of Rand's armies there. I think Caemlyn is the main focus because Demandred knows Rand well enough to know that he won't want Elayne to endanger herself, and knows Elayne well enough to know that she will want to try. Demandred's only other plan aside from general warfare is to kill Rand. So what is his bigger game supposed to be?

 

He is one of the Shadow's best generals, the only remaining general after Sammael and Be'lal were toasted. And Graendal says he always like to have armies command:

 

 

 

What was that blasted man up to? She’d have traded all of her knowledge of Mesaana's and Aran'gar's doings for even a hint of Demandred's plans. He stood there, handsome and hawk-nosed, his lips drawn in perpetual anger. Demandred never smiled, never seemed to enjoy anything. Though he was one of the foremost generals among the Chosen, warfare had never seemed to bring him joy. Once she had heard him say that he would laugh the day he could snap the neck of Lews Therin. And only then.

 

He was a fool to bear that grudge. To think he might have been on the other side—might have become the Dragon himself, had things turned out differently. Still, fool or not, he was extremely dangerous, and Graendal did not like being ignorant of his plans. Where had he set up? Demandred liked having armies to command, but there were none left moving in the world.

 

Three things motivating Demandred: Hatred for LTT, likes to lead armies (and is the Shadow's last remaining capable commander); and there must he his ambition to become Na'eblis.

I thing Cyndane and Moghie will be with Ish when Rand, Nynaeve and Moiraine confront Ish.

[Maleshub]

I don't think Demandred needs a bigger game than Caemlyn; his intentions work well enough in the Caemlyn context, especially if he can draw the bulk of Rand's armies there. I think Caemlyn is the main focus because Demandred knows Rand well enough to know that he won't want Elayne to endanger herself, and knows Elayne well enough to know that she will want to try. Demandred's only other plan aside from general warfare is to kill Rand. So what is his bigger game supposed to be?

 

He is one of the Shadow's best generals, the only remaining general after Sammael and Be'lal were toasted. And Graendal says he always like to have armies command:

 

 

 

What was that blasted man up to? She’d have traded all of her knowledge of Mesaana's and Aran'gar's doings for even a hint of Demandred's plans. He stood there, handsome and hawk-nosed, his lips drawn in perpetual anger. Demandred never smiled, never seemed to enjoy anything. Though he was one of the foremost generals among the Chosen, warfare had never seemed to bring him joy. Once she had heard him say that he would laugh the day he could snap the neck of Lews Therin. And only then.

 

He was a fool to bear that grudge. To think he might have been on the other side—might have become the Dragon himself, had things turned out differently. Still, fool or not, he was extremely dangerous, and Graendal did not like being ignorant of his plans. Where had he set up? Demandred liked having armies to command, but there were none left moving in the world.

 

Three things motivating Demandred: Hatred for LTT, likes to lead armies (and is the Shadow's last remaining capable commander); and there must he his ambition to become Na'eblis.

I thing Cyndane and Moghie will be with Ish when Rand, Nynaeve and Moiraine confront Ish.

 

Sorry; but how is the response related to the the quote above it?

[TootThatHorn]

The thing with Demandred, what with RJ and BS keeping him offscreen, is that they can lay anything they want at his feet. Have an army not doing anything? Turn them dark and give them to Demandred? Need to pull some troops from an offscreen land to pad the fight? Give them to Demandred.

 

There have been 13 books to plan exactly what and who to give over to him. Nothing overly specific had to be with Demandred until he is finally revealed, so as a literary tool he has been built up enough without having to do to much for him until this last book. And it was done quite well given that nobody is complaining about the hype yet; really I think everyone is like me, in total anticipation for him more than almost anything else. Genius.

 

Edit: BS wasn't even sure of the release date. *sigh*

[NitroS]

Was there anyone in particular that was the first one to come up with the rodran theory? also didnt we get another clue in tom or tgs where egwene said she had failed to hear word from roedran/murandy?

[MarkDiLillo]

Not really worth debating, Terez. I just have the feeling that he has been up to more than what you suggest. Given all of the hints and build up, I am expecting something epic out of him. Maybe I'm expecting too much though.

[NitroS]

Brandon said in another q/a somewhere cant remember where that it isnt about who demandred has been posing as but what hes been upto.

 

So that fits the roedran theory, but doesnt fit the conversation between moridin and demandred in the prologue of amol. He acts as if hes got something similar to the black tower in power, which can only mean two things to me some inside darkside army with the lights forces (unlinkely to be present at FOM because rand can see dark friends) or an army as powerful as the blacktower with only 2 armies equaling that and that would be the white tower or the seanchan (unless shara ofcourse) so im really suprised that seanchan has been so untouched by the big players amongst the forsaken but i think since semmirage(sp) and graendal had both had plans for the place that this leaves demandred as a contended for something else.

 

Roedran is sort of guaranteed for me too since in tom brandon was trying to give subtle clues with elayne avi etc being concerned about the bands loyalities after serving king roedran and then later egwene being worried about not hearing from king roedran. This was purposly put in and can only mean hes a dark friend or demandred is him and both are virtually the same thing.

[Duskfire]

He has to be more then just Murandy. Moridin said the Dark One was very pleased with Demandred; pleased for raising an army in a small nation no one gives a crap about? Pleased he had to get outside help in the form of the Band of the Red Hand to help him?

 

This guy is meant to be a tactical genius.

[Neophyte]

As far as I know, very few people would suggest that Murandy is the only theater in which Demandred is acting. Just that, of the candidates we have available for Demandred to be impersonating (since he apparently is impersonating someone) that Kind Roedran of Murandy seems to be the most likely candidate. I'm very sure, no matter who he is actually impersonating, that he has other irons in the fire, so to speak.

[The Fisher King]

Just to be clear: Brandon confirmed that Demandred has a Third Age persona. NOT necessarily a King or General who has had his identity taken over.

 

In other words, he isn't necessarily impersonating someone. He just moves around in Randland looking like a Third-Ager.

 

 

Fish

[Alonin]

One theory I've come up with is that Demandred is impersonating Darlin. After all, in KoD, Darlin becomes king of tear. Right after, in tGS, Demandred his rule is secure. The only problem is MIn's viewings about Darlin marrying Caraline Damodred. and the fact that Cadsuane holds him prisoner for a while... and author quotes that Demandred hadn't shown his alter alias yet when Darlin came around... I guess there are a couple holes. But Darlin would be a much greater blow to the Light than Roedran.

 

Next theory is Shara. Graendal did kidnap the rulers of that land, causing a power vacuum. So, Demandred could have stepped right in there.

[skyost]

I'm pretty sure I recall that Shara is actually ruled by a cabal of channelers that actually just use the Sh'Botay/Sh'Botan as figureheads and pretend to serve them. Maybe Demandred's huge contribution has been to turn these channelers to the shadow somehow (13x13, compulsion, convincing them, tricking them into attacking the nations without mentioning it's for the Dark One) and thus gaining control of all of Shara. They could even be gated in wherever needed so they wouldn't need to be convinced to go through the Ways. That could be a huge army of channelers and normals, any size desired really since we don't know enough about Shara for any number to seem unreasonable. He could be both posing as Roedran and taking over Shara on the side. Any Forsaken inclined to use crazy amounts of compulsion could easily take over the leadership of a kingdom that didn't know to look out for exactly that happening, especially a male Forsaken facing anyone without Rand leading them. In Murandy, he could have employed the Band just to cover for the fact that he was gathering the lords with compulsion, giving a perfect explanation for why the land is suddenly looking much less fragmented as he consolidates for war.

 

Personally, I like the idea of him gathering an army from the isle of madmen, unleashing a mass of raving barbarians and insane channelers

[FarShainMael]

He has to be more then just Murandy. Moridin said the Dark One was very pleased with Demandred; pleased for raising an army in a small nation no one gives a crap about? Pleased he had to get outside help in the form of the Band of the Red Hand to help him?

 

This guy is meant to be a tactical genius.

I'm wondering if, when Demandred said his rule was secure, he was talking about the Band.

[Maleshub]

In military terms, I perceive Demandred as the Shadow's Field Marshal, their 5-star General. Their Eisenhower or Napoleon. That perceptions begs to have Demandred operating on more than one theater and having overall command of several armies.

[Oneiros]

When i consider the phrasing used in the past few books used in the Forsaken meetings regarding Demandred's status reports--namely, "we will be ready"--I had just assumed that it meant he must be behind the Black Tower or he had subverted one of the major channeling institutions like Semirhage and Mesaana. Which fit well with how Sammael had said Demandred's "friends" can carve out whatever he wants so long as they stay away from his territory. (If he were talking about normal Darkfriends, Sammael could just countermand them; channelers loyal to a rival Forsaken or unknowingly serving one might not be so easy to redirect.)

 

With Moridin telling him his "playthings can wait," it still seems as if Demandred will bring to bear something unique or at least significant, either channelers or weapons of some sort. I immediately considered there might be some AoL weapons involved when I heard the "playthings" remark, but that seems pretty out there.

 

Some of those armies or mercenary bands might be Shadowy, but I can't see them posing any real threat against far larger armies backed by hundreds of channelers, not to mention Rand himself. Unless the Samma N'Sei, Taim's Dreadlords, and/or the Black Ajah are coopted for the fight, that is.

 

I know it's been stated that it's possible to figure out who he is from the information we already have, but has anyone asked if we can figure out what he's been doing from the earlier books?

[TootThatHorn]

What with Demandred being the great general that he is, he will have to know, I would assume, that he has to have channelers in his ranks. He has the WT to contend with, wise ones, kinswomen, a potential faction from the BT. As an established strategist he has to know that the other Forsaken will have factions to help, but he must consider that he cannot depend on them, or that will put a weakness in his strategy, so he has to plan against all possibilities.

 

Murandy feels like a decent bet to give over to Demandred. That takes care of some of his regular troops, but perhaps not enough. So there must be somewhere else also that he will be drawing troops from, although I'm sure he will be commanding many trollocs as well. But regardless, non channeling troops in this situation need only match in numbers to your opponent, should it be open warfare. They are to draw attention and distract, whereas your big guns are your channelers; nothing can match the destructive ability of a large group of channelers, which Demandred must know he needs.

 

So I would assume that Demandred will not have any pull among the BT, that is already spoken for. There is a chance that he could be commanding the BA, I believe they may be in need of a leader now, and that would put them in a spot to damage the WT internally, but I'm not sure of that. Egwene should be starting to weed them out, and I feel like they may be still in a state of disarray, but I'm not positive on that. The Samma N'Sei are a possibility, he could draw upon those resources given that they are of the shadow and will be needing a commander in order to utilize them. I'm not sure if they are really for all out combat though. I feel like they are special forces, that they may be involved in assassinations and sneak attacks, but who knows.

 

Aside from those I think we are left with three distinct possibilities. There is Shara and the Isle, and frankly I may be a little disappointed should those show up. Mostly if the Isle comes in to play, I really don't feel as though that deserves any more than the nod it has gotten. I can deal with Shara appearing if, perhaps they are to be coupled with the homeland Seanchan through the red sailed ships. The Seanchan is where I feel like Demandred is going to pull his channelers from, specifically the ones still back on their continent, not necessarily the ones with Tuon, I feel like that will be a split faction. Also, like I mentioned, he could be sending Sharans there to recruit, and then sending them on to the mainland with a huge amount of troops as well, as long as the timeline fits.

 

I also forgot to mention the Sea Folk, but given that I stated in another thread that I don't think they served to be anything other that a royal pain in the @$$ I don't see Demandred messing with them; besides IF they show up again, I see them on the side of the light.

 

Edit: I forgot to include the Shaido, there could be a possibility there as well. Who knows though.

[crazyrandisdead]

I realise a lot of people think it would be disappointing if Demandred were in Shara, but it seems to me that this would in fact be the most thematically satisfying place for him to be. At one point (can't remember where now) we learn that someone in Shara has declared himself to be the Dragon and has gathered a following large enough to create major unrest (after the Pattern had already forcibly unseated other false Dragons, like Taim). Given that Demandred was always frustrated at having to play second fiddle to Lews Therin and considered himself to be the one truly worthy of leading the forces of the Light, it would make a great deal of sense for him to use his superior knowledge of the power to set himself up as a false Dragon. It would also give him command of a force large enough to make a real impact in the coming war. Murandy just seems like small potatoes.

 

I don't know whether this would pass the 'alter ego' test, but it is someone who has been mentioned at some point in the books.

[TootThatHorn]

I realise a lot of people think it would be disappointing if Demandred were in Shara, but it seems to me that this would in fact be the most thematically satisfying place for him to be. At one point (can't remember where now) we learn that someone in Shara has declared himself to be the Dragon and has gathered a following large enough to create major unrest (after the Pattern had already forcibly unseated other false Dragons, like Taim). Given that Demandred was always frustrated at having to play second fiddle to Lews Therin and considered himself to be the one truly worthy of leading the forces of the Light, it would make a great deal of sense for him to use his superior knowledge of the power to set himself up as a false Dragon. It would also give him command of a force large enough to make a real impact in the coming war. Murandy just seems like small potatoes.

 

I don't know whether this would pass the 'alter ego' test, but it is someone who has been mentioned at some point in the books.

 

I don't remember someone declaring themselves the Dragon in Shara...are you sure they weren't just freaking out hearing the news that Rand had declared himself? I thought they went in to pretty big unrest thinking that the lands would be broken again.

[Neophyte]

I do think it likely that Demandred is somehow involved in Shara - and Murandy could be more valuable for its location than it's people or resources. If he can bring resources from Shara by gateway, then Murandy is a great place to deliver them for effect - right in the middle of the more populous southern part of Randland. He can strike toward the Seanchan, or Rand's supporters in Illian, or Elayne's lands in Andor. Or all three, if he has the resources. In addition, there is a Waygate outside of the ruins of Londaren Cor, which I think is in the borders of Murandy. So, he could be bringing in Shadowspawn as well.

[Suttree]

I realise a lot of people think it would be disappointing if Demandred were in Shara, but it seems to me that this would in fact be the most thematically satisfying place for him to be. At one point (can't remember where now) we learn that someone in Shara has declared himself to be the Dragon and has gathered a following large enough to create major unrest (after the Pattern had already forcibly unseated other false Dragons, like Taim). Given that Demandred was always frustrated at having to play second fiddle to Lews Therin and considered himself to be the one truly worthy of leading the forces of the Light, it would make a great deal of sense for him to use his superior knowledge of the power to set himself up as a false Dragon. It would also give him command of a force large enough to make a real impact in the coming war. Murandy just seems like small potatoes.

 

I don't know whether this would pass the 'alter ego' test, but it is someone who has been mentioned at some point in the books.

 

I don't remember someone declaring themselves the Dragon in Shara...are you sure they weren't just freaking out hearing the news that Rand had declared himself? I thought they went in to pretty big unrest thinking that the lands would be broken again.

 

No one declared as the the Dragon in Shara. The unrest comes from Granedal stealing their Sh'boan and Sh'botay breaking the "seven year cycle". This threw the country into chaos and news of the DR furthered the decline.

[crazyrandisdead]

I realise a lot of people think it would be disappointing if Demandred were in Shara, but it seems to me that this would in fact be the most thematically satisfying place for him to be. At one point (can't remember where now) we learn that someone in Shara has declared himself to be the Dragon and has gathered a following large enough to create major unrest (after the Pattern had already forcibly unseated other false Dragons, like Taim). Given that Demandred was always frustrated at having to play second fiddle to Lews Therin and considered himself to be the one truly worthy of leading the forces of the Light, it would make a great deal of sense for him to use his superior knowledge of the power to set himself up as a false Dragon. It would also give him command of a force large enough to make a real impact in the coming war. Murandy just seems like small potatoes.

 

I don't know whether this would pass the 'alter ego' test, but it is someone who has been mentioned at some point in the books.

 

I don't remember someone declaring themselves the Dragon in Shara...are you sure they weren't just freaking out hearing the news that Rand had declared himself? I thought they went in to pretty big unrest thinking that the lands would be broken again.

 

I'd have to re-read the passage, it's been a while, but unfortunately I don't remember where it is. At any rate, my recollection is that when I read it, it sounded like there was someone in Shara who had declared himself to be the Dragon.

 

Even if you were correct, it might still be the case that Demandred is impersonating Rand in Shara. At the very least, the passage indicates that the legend of the Dragon is a pretty potent motivator in Shara.

[crazyrandisdead]

I realise a lot of people think it would be disappointing if Demandred were in Shara, but it seems to me that this would in fact be the most thematically satisfying place for him to be. At one point (can't remember where now) we learn that someone in Shara has declared himself to be the Dragon and has gathered a following large enough to create major unrest (after the Pattern had already forcibly unseated other false Dragons, like Taim). Given that Demandred was always frustrated at having to play second fiddle to Lews Therin and considered himself to be the one truly worthy of leading the forces of the Light, it would make a great deal of sense for him to use his superior knowledge of the power to set himself up as a false Dragon. It would also give him command of a force large enough to make a real impact in the coming war. Murandy just seems like small potatoes.

 

I don't know whether this would pass the 'alter ego' test, but it is someone who has been mentioned at some point in the books.

 

I don't remember someone declaring themselves the Dragon in Shara...are you sure they weren't just freaking out hearing the news that Rand had declared himself? I thought they went in to pretty big unrest thinking that the lands would be broken again.

 

No one declared as the the Dragon in Shara. The unrest comes from Granedal stealing their Sh'boan and Sh'botay breaking the "seven year cycle". This threw the country into chaos and news of the DR furthered the decline.

 

No, there's a separate passage that mentions the Dragon specifically as the cause of unrest in Shara.

[mbuehner]

If he can bring resources from Shara by gateway, then Murandy is a great place to deliver them for effect - right in the middle of the more populous southern part of Randland

 

If you can bring resources by gateway anyplace in the universe is a great place to deliver them.

[Neophyte]

If he can bring resources from Shara by gateway, then Murandy is a great place to deliver them for effect - right in the middle of the more populous southern part of Randland

 

If you can bring resources by gateway anyplace in the universe is a great place to deliver them.

 

Not if you might not be able to send them out by gateway again. Gathering forces can be done over time. Deploying them simultaneously using the same methods might not be possible - there are limits to what can be moved by gateway in physical terms. This is why Rand didn't just send grain to Arad Doman in wagons by gateway.