CAUTION: Super Spoiler Prologue discussion; Leave the cops out of it :)

[78WARLOCK]

The bearded little fat man.

 

 

Fish

I thought he lost that at Đumai's Wells?

 

Yes Rand did but he looked hard to find that after the battle but in the next book we have a scene where Sevanna is looking at it and wondering what it was.

[Amandera]

in the next book we have a scene where Sevanna is looking at it and wondering what it was.

Can you tell me where this is? I always thought we never saw it after LoC.

[thisguy]

Questions that we can speculate in,

 

Isam would probably not recognize Cyndane but why isn't Brandon just confirming its her, why is it a secret if its her? (which I think it is) and why does she keep looking into her reflection if it's her. (I guess Cyndane could use a MoM buts its unlikely when she's not recognized anyway)

 

What is Rand gonna do after his meeting at FoM? aid Caemlyn? Aid Lan?(I guess just send some part of his army there is enough) so both options is possible. Moiraine will see him probably very soon. Assassin attempt will most likely occur and Perrin will be there to save him but when will this happend?

 

Rand has at least 400,000 committed soldiers at the moment: about 200,000 Aiel, another 200,000 Borderlanders. He might send the Aiel to rescue Caemlyn and the Borderlanders back to their respective kingdoms. And I think that is Demandred's plan: force Rand to split his forces. Mat bringing the Seanchan from the south could foil Demandred's genius.

 

He probably has more than 400, 000, counting Tear, Illian, Perrin's forces, the Band of the Red Hand, the Aiel, the Borderlanders, Bashere's cavalry, whatever he's got from Arad Doman, Dobraine's armsmen, and then there's the Legion of the Dragon, although there may be doubts on their loyalty.

 

You're right, Rand's overall forces are much more. But I disregarded Tear and Illian due to the confrontation with Rand over the Seals. Anyway, my original quote was off mark for my intentions. Bael and Rhuarc only had 70K spears. The other clans, I assume are still around Cairhien and in Illian.

 

My thoughts were that if Rand wanted to move immediately in reaction to the fall of Caemlyn, he would depend on the Aiel and Borderlanders more than Illian's forces that need to be sent back there.

 

I totally forgot about Perrin's army, which might play a significant role in the liberation of Caemlyn, cementing the Two Rivers to Caemlyn and giving Perrin further leverage with Elayne.

 

In any case, away from my jumbled thoughts, is there any estimate or breakdown of the forces in Merrilor? My guess is around half a million:

 

Aiel: 70K

Andor/Cairhien: 50K

Illian: 30K

Tear: 100K

Borderlanders: 200K

Perrin: 70K

WT: 100K

 

Are these the numbers just for the troops at Merrilor. I am pretty sure that Perrin has far more troops than that.

[Amandera]

No, I don't know about the others but that's accurate. He has over 50k + Whitecloaks. Rest of the refugees from Malden went home through gateways.

[FanoLan]

The bearded little fat man.

 

 

Fish

I thought he lost that at Đumai's Wells?

 

Yes Rand did but he looked hard to find that after the battle but in the next book we have a scene where Sevanna is looking at it and wondering what it was.

 

Sevanna was contemplating the call box Sammael had given her while disguised as Caddar, not the fat little man. We the readers have not seen it since the kidnapping. Assuming Demo was involved with the whole plot in alliance with Mes, he and Taim are the most likely candidates to have secured that angreal. Would not surprise me to see the fat little man appear in AMoL. Nothing up my sleeve ........ Presto!

[Dryone]

Questions that we can speculate in,

 

Isam would probably not recognize Cyndane but why isn't Brandon just confirming its her, why is it a secret if its her? (which I think it is) and why does she keep looking into her reflection if it's her. (I guess Cyndane could use a MoM buts its unlikely when she's not recognized anyway)

I still believe that was Graendal. Can you see your own MoM in a mirror?

What is Rand gonna do after his meeting at FoM? aid Caemlyn? Aid Lan?(I guess just send some part of his army there is enough) so both options is possible. Moiraine will see him probably very soon. Assassin attempt will most likely occur and Perrin will be there to save him but when will this happend?Mins view of Lan, a baby in a cradle with a sword hovering? how is this gonna be fulfilled?

 

Already is. Lan was sworn to his sword as a baby and carried out by Bacuma after the fall of Malkier, cf. NS

 

Who will aid Caemlyn if not Rand? When will they find out that Caemlyn has been taken?

Caemlyn is lost. In chapter 1 it gets evacuated.

Black Tower resolvement? Feels like they need a lot more female channelers for the circles. Where's Logain?

How many DF Ashaman's is there? 100? 200?

 

What in army numbers (non-channelers) is equivalent to the numbers of DF Asha'mans? reason for asking is that then we can speculate a bit more in detail about the armies of Demandred, numbers without channelers/or channelers and possible where his armies comes from.

[thisguy]

No, I don't know about the others but that's accurate. He has over 50k + Whitecloaks. Rest of the refugees from Malden went home through gateways.

I thought the WCs had around 20,000 before the trial and Perrin had 3-4 times their numbers and both sides were still taking in new recruits.

[Amandera]

20K Whitecloaks is correct but Perrin has a LOT of camp followers at that point. He has around 50K fighting men, I haven't checked but this is what I recall. After Perrin removes the dreamspike, refugees are evacuated through gateways. They go to save Whitecloaks. So 70K men, subtract losses to WCs (Perrin's army should have minimal casualties), add new recruits, if Tam has come from Two Rivers add those extras as well. All in all Perrin has an army in the vicinity of 70K strong.

[Suttree]

Already is. Lan was sworn to his sword as a baby and carried out by Bacuma after the fall of Malkier, cf. NS

 

Nope. Min's viewings are always about the future.

[thisguy]

20K Whitecloaks is correct but Perrin has a LOT of camp followers at that point. He has around 50K fighting men, I haven't checked but this is what I recall. After Perrin removes the dreamspike, refugees are evacuated through gateways. They go to save Whitecloaks. So 70K men, subtract losses to WCs (Perrin's army should have minimal casualties), add new recruits, if Tam has come from Two Rivers add those extras as well. All in all Perrin has an army in the vicinity of 70K strong.

 

If you add more troops from the Two Rivers to Perrin's army, it has to be over 70000 men.

[Amandera]

Remember Whitecloaks have suffered heavy losses. And after they're united, they go straight to Whitebridge then Caemlyn so there's not much chance of recruiting. Whatever Tam managed to raise from the Two Rivers in a month can at best negate those losses, that is if he did come.

[herid]

So... some theories that have been killed:

 

Taim is Moridin (though I suppose there's still a small chance of that).

 

It's DEAD and I for one could not be happier. It got a bit tiring poking holes in that theory over and over. Sorry Drekka and hey Mik...not so epic!!!! ;)

yes, that theory is dead but I still think we haven't learned all the secrets about Taim's identity. All the hints tying him to Moridin point to a very close relationship between the two. Moridin clearly groomed him for a while which is pretty unusual for a Forsaken.

[herid]

One other thing about Taim's reveal in the prologue that I'm not sure about is what it does to the theory that Taim was behind the attack on the Algarin's manor in KoD.

Luckers turned out to be right about Taim being a new Forsaken. That certainly gives a lot of extra weight to that theory. But when exactly did Taim become a Forsaken? From the AMOL prologue it looks like it only just happened. Moridin introduces him as a new Chosen and gives him a new Chosen handle to be used from now on. He even gives reasons for Taim becoming a new Chosen, one of which is that the Chosen are so few now. But in KoD Aran'gar, Semirhage and Mesaana were all still around. Could it be that Taim became a Forsaken earlier but Moridin didn't know about it? That would explain it but it seems unlikely to me given that Taim was clearly Moridin's protegee and Moridin is Nae'blis. I must say I find the whole Taim as a new Forsaken reveal highly unsatisfying. I imagined in the past that the other Forsaken knew what his station was and it was just kept a secret from the readers. But it turns out none but Moridin and Demandred knew about him. This strains credulity even if Taim was just elevated. The secrecy is left without any explanation. There appears no point to it at all. And if Taim really was a Forsaken for some time and Moridin knew about it why did Moridin not inform the others about it sooner? And why did Taim himself put up with it? He certainly has a very large ego. I hope these things will be explained later. A Taim POV would be really cool.

[Centauri25]

I suspect Taim has long been a darkfriend. MY assumption is that he has EARNED his promotion through a job well done. Creating an army of dreadlords, turning both male and female channelers to the dark, all while being under the constant vigillance of the Dragon Reborn, and without detection!

[herid]

I'm not disputing that here. my main question is when exactly Taim was elevated to a Forsaken. did it just happen or has he been a Forsaken since at least KoD? because if he was just elevated then he couldn't possibly be responsible for the Algarin manor attack. Only someone with a mark of a Chosen could order the myrddraal.