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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
TootThatHorn

CAUTION: Super Spoiler Prologue discussion; Leave the cops out of it :)

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Biggest thing to me; Moggy mentioning a sun in TAR and how it had been long since she seen that. That in itself speaks volumes.

 

 

 

 

Luckers Edit: Read the first post of this thread to understand how this happened and where this info is coming from. http://www.dragonmou...e-for-purchase/

Edited by TootThatHorn
For Clarity

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Gleanings from the bits and peices I've read:

 

 

So Graendal lives! Totally called that one. Though she was clearly killed and then stuffed into an ugly woman's body, she clearly retains her strength in the OP. I'm not sure if she's actually mindtrapped, since we don't have that part of the prologue, but from Moghedien's statement, it seems like Graendal was also mindtrapped, then given her own mindtrap. Cyndane is being punished especially hard, which is mystifying, since Graendal screwed up way more. There's something going on here that we're really not privy to.

 

Incidentally, the sea with the ever-drowning souls... creepy, and perhaps a hint of the fate Verin is suffering? If so... this only increases her case for being made a Hero of the Horn. The woman has guts.

 

Incidentally, Moghedien's immediate connection between Hessalam and Nynaeve only strengthens the case for Nynaeve being as strong as Graendal, no?

 

And dreamshards... I bet that's a Sanderson-ism. But I thoroughly approve. Its an excellent name, and I can't wait to see some dreamshard action with Egwene in it. It seems clear Moridin is a powerful Dreamwalker, even if not in Moghedien's class.

 

And Finnland finally has an official name- Sindhol! Which is nicely paralleled by Aridhol, hinting at Mordeth getting some of his knowledge/power from the Finn.

 

Talmanes... wow! The lack of communication between Caemlyn and Merrilor that so many speculated about seems well explained now. Two of the four Kin Elayne left behind were assassinated by DFs. And the rest of the Kin are with Elayne at Merrilor, making the female channeler complement there huge. The Seanchan should be burnt toast if they attack, especially with the large number of gateways opening from the WT to the Field.

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edit: doubled up on fionwe's post above. Perhaps you want to throw the "red veiled" bit in too?

 

double edit: Bwahaha classic on the Mat comment!

Edited by Suttree

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This has to be a Mat Cauthon luck moment. What are the chances that on the same day, two people get the prologue in the brief moments its avaialble, and then you post my points at the exact moment I do?

 

Something is working in our favor!

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edit: doubled up on fionwe's post below. Perhaps you want to throw the "red veiled" bit in too?

 

Sure:

 

Aiel town/clan, men who wear rad veils that they only remove when killing. Inversion of the Aiel, and everything there is a corruption of the original (Aiel Waste). The clan is called the "eye blinders", which fits nicely with the Aiel name for the DO: Sightblinder. Isam grew up among them, one of the "Talentless", which is clearly a term they use for non-channelers. That, along with the large number of dogs, makes it all but certain that these are male Aiel channelers.

Edited by fionwe1987

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Ahem. This seems a little problematic...

 

The strange shield Shaidar Haran had used on her—Myrddraal could not, but it did—the shield was not in evidence, yet she did not consider channeling. The True Power was denied her, of course—that could be drawn only with the Great Lord's blessing—but the Source tantalized, though the glow just beyond sight seemed somehow odd. She still did not consider it. Every time the Myrddraal visited, it displayed her mindtrap. Channeling too near your own cour'souvra was extremely painful, the nearer, the more the pain; this close, she did not think she would survive a simple touch on the Source.

 

...with Moghedien wearing her own cour'souvra.

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Ahem. This seems a little problematic...

 

The strange shield Shaidar Haran had used on her—Myrddraal could not, but it did—the shield was not in evidence, yet she did not consider channeling. The True Power was denied her, of course—that could be drawn only with the Great Lord's blessing—but the Source tantalized, though the glow just beyond sight seemed somehow odd. She still did not consider it. Every time the Myrddraal visited, it displayed her mindtrap. Channeling too near your own cour'souvra was extremely painful, the nearer, the more the pain; this close, she did not think she would survive a simple touch on the Source.

 

...with Moghedien wearing her own cour'souvra.

 

Nice one...had totally forgotten that.

Edited by Suttree

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Ahem. This seems a little problematic...

 

The strange shield Shaidar Haran had used on her—Myrddraal could not, but it did—the shield was not in evidence, yet she did not consider channeling. The True Power was denied her, of course—that could be drawn only with the Great Lord's blessing—but the Source tantalized, though the glow just beyond sight seemed somehow odd. She still did not consider it. Every time the Myrddraal visited, it displayed her mindtrap. Channeling too near your own cour'souvra was extremely painful, the nearer, the more the pain; this close, she did not think she would survive a simple touch on the Source.

 

...with Moghedien wearing her own cour'souvra.

I'd forgotten that. I thought it was the TP you couldn't touch.

 

But perhaps in giving the cour'sourva to Moghedien, something was done to make channeling around it possible? Maybe it can be remotely activated, which would immediately stop her channeling. But when its in her hands, its inactive. Would certainly explain why giving it to her would be seen as a reward, but not a sign of complete freedom.

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Ahem. This seems a little problematic...

 

The strange shield Shaidar Haran had used on her—Myrddraal could not, but it did—the shield was not in evidence, yet she did not consider channeling. The True Power was denied her, of course—that could be drawn only with the Great Lord's blessing—but the Source tantalized, though the glow just beyond sight seemed somehow odd. She still did not consider it. Every time the Myrddraal visited, it displayed her mindtrap. Channeling too near your own cour'souvra was extremely painful, the nearer, the more the pain; this close, she did not think she would survive a simple touch on the Source.

 

...with Moghedien wearing her own cour'souvra.

I'd forgotten that. I thought it was the TP you couldn't touch.

 

But perhaps in giving the cour'sourva to Moghedien, something was done to make channeling around it possible? Maybe it can be remotely activated, which would immediately stop her channeling. But when its in her hands, its inactive. Would certainly explain why giving it to her would be seen as a reward, but not a sign of complete freedom.

 

Just the worst reminder while granting a small bit of sanctuary...almost torturous.

 

Edit: Now what if a Light-sider gets their hands on it? Could be something like that that may happen.

Edited by TootThatHorn

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Ahem. This seems a little problematic...

 

The strange shield Shaidar Haran had used on her—Myrddraal could not, but it did—the shield was not in evidence, yet she did not consider channeling. The True Power was denied her, of course—that could be drawn only with the Great Lord's blessing—but the Source tantalized, though the glow just beyond sight seemed somehow odd. She still did not consider it. Every time the Myrddraal visited, it displayed her mindtrap. Channeling too near your own cour'souvra was extremely painful, the nearer, the more the pain; this close, she did not think she would survive a simple touch on the Source.

 

...with Moghedien wearing her own cour'souvra.

 

Nice catch.

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So... some theories that have been killed:

 

Taim is Moridin (though I suppose there's still a small chance of that).

 

Demandred is in Murandy (unlikely, since he claims what he brings to the table is more important than Taim's DF Asha'man. A ludicrous claim given the location of the BT and with Caemlyn taken.)

 

Any number of perfectly ridiculous ideas about the red-veils and the blank in the Blight.

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I'm thinking Slayer's scene might be the Jordan-written one. Mainly because of the content--minus a little tweaking it could very well have fit in chronologically in the original prologue, and that little tweaking is really no more than the sort that Brandon's done on any of the Jordan-written scenes.

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We also have Demandred claiming a "requirement," which to me seems he struck a deal with Moridin that he will provide his resources in return for the right to kill Rand. Yet we have someone in the town, while Moridin is in it, telling Slayer to kill Rand. Well, to kill al'Thor, is that Rand or Tam?

 

Edit: I would assume Rand since he has been assigned it before and Tam really should be easy for Slayer I would imagine; perhaps another way for Perrin to save Rand, and I would think he will do it in TAR.

Edited by TootThatHorn

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Slayer's scene has him being ordered to kill Rand to the exclusion of everything else, and being told no other Choasen would command him. That doesn't quite fit in with his being given to Graendal.

 

Of course, the whole Graendal-Perrin thing could be something Sanderson wrote in.

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I'm thinking Slayer's scene might be the Jordan-written one. Mainly because of the content--minus a little tweaking it could very well have fit in chronologically in the original prologue, and that little tweaking is really no more than the sort that Brandon's done on any of the Jordan-written scenes.

 

It's more than just tweaking. The mystery woman (lady Forsaken?) tells him his target is Rand and only Rand. He spent the whole last book hunting Perrin. + Slayers been given assistants (who are not his subordinates). The setting must have been created by Jordan. I have a feeling this scene was one of those recorded on tape for Brandon. That story about RJ that's at the origin of the "There's a ___ in the Blight" thread supports this.

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So... some theories that have been killed:

 

Taim is Moridin (though I suppose there's still a small chance of that).

 

It's DEAD and I for one could not be happier. It got a bit tiring poking holes in that theory over and over. Sorry Drekka and hey Mik...not so epic!!!! ;)

Edited by Suttree

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Slayer's scene has him being ordered to kill Rand to the exclusion of everything else, and being told no other Choasen would command him. That doesn't quite fit in with his being given to Graendal.

 

Of course, the whole Graendal-Perrin thing could be something Sanderson wrote in.

 

I'm pretty sure it is. Possibly at most there might have been a note about Graendal setting her sights on Perrin and failing, and suffering for that, but certainly we know the dreamspike, both in inception and in the specifics of its function were Brandon--which is where Slayers involvement stems from. It also fits well with all of Brandon's comments about HIM wanting to give the readers a big Perrin book, and setting out to do it.

 

Finally it also explains Slayers survival, which thematically, felt clunky.

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It's DEAD and I for one could not be happier. It got a bit tiring poking holes in that theory over and over. Sorry Drekka and hey Mik...not so epic!!!! ;)

M'Hael doesn't speak in the part of the prologue we have. He could, theoretically, be a construct of Moridins to throw the other Foresaken off. Though why he'd do so is beyond me.

 

Can anyone who actually read the prologue confirm whether Taim speaks or not? And does Moghedien accept her orders to assist Demandred?

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On a side note have we ever actually seen Slayer go in or out of TAR? I'm curious how he does it and how it ties in to his two personas.

Book 9; he does this in Far Madding. Not described in detail.

 

EDIT: Someone will find you the exact quote I'm sure.

Edited by Olver_is_a_Forsaken

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I'm thinking Slayer's scene might be the Jordan-written one. Mainly because of the content--minus a little tweaking it could very well have fit in chronologically in the original prologue, and that little tweaking is really no more than the sort that Brandon's done on any of the Jordan-written scenes.

 

It's more than just tweaking. The mystery woman (lady Forsaken?) tells him his target is Rand and only Rand. He spent the whole last book hunting Perrin. + Slayers been given assistants (who are not his subordinates). The setting must have been created by Jordan. I have a feeling this scene was one of those recorded on tape for Brandon. That story about RJ that's at the origin of the "There's a ___ in the Blight" thread supports this.

 

Nah, the tweaking is simply the reference to having hunted Perrin. That would be the element that was added to make it fit with what occurred in TofM.

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Slayer's scene has him being ordered to kill Rand to the exclusion of everything else, and being told no other Choasen would command him. That doesn't quite fit in with his being given to Graendal.

 

Of course, the whole Graendal-Perrin thing could be something Sanderson wrote in.

 

I'm pretty sure it is. Possibly at most there might have been a note about Graendal setting her sights on Perrin and failing, and suffering for that, but certainly we know the dreamspike, both in inception and in the specifics of its function were Brandon--which is where Slayers involvement stems from. It also fits well with all of Brandon's comments about HIM wanting to give the readers a big Perrin book, and setting out to do it.

 

Finally it also explains Slayers survival, which thematically, felt clunky.

The Dreamspike was Brandon? Well, that explains the confusion over the Rebel AS around the BT. In tGS, their absence is this big mystery. In ToM, no one seems concerned, and Nynaeve casually Travels into their camp. Now, in the Prologue, Pevara talks of them still being outside. Wonder how the gateways were supposed to be blocked in RJ's head...

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I'm thinking Slayer's scene might be the Jordan-written one. Mainly because of the content--minus a little tweaking it could very well have fit in chronologically in the original prologue, and that little tweaking is really no more than the sort that Brandon's done on any of the Jordan-written scenes.

 

It's more than just tweaking. The mystery woman (lady Forsaken?) tells him his target is Rand and only Rand. He spent the whole last book hunting Perrin. + Slayers been given assistants (who are not his subordinates). The setting must have been created by Jordan. I have a feeling this scene was one of those recorded on tape for Brandon. That story about RJ that's at the origin of the "There's a ___ in the Blight" thread supports this.

 

Nah, the tweaking is simply the reference to having hunted Perrin. That would be the element that was added to make it fit with what occurred in TofM.

 

 

Could very well be the case.

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