Mat & the Dice Ter'angreal

[pepe Al'thor]

I'm sure this is has been brought up at some point, but i happened to just catch this myself for the first time on my re-read in Ch25 TDR pg294.

 

"Here's one Mat would enjoy," "Item. A carved cluster of six spotted dice, joined at the corners, less than two inches across. Use unknown, save that channeling through it seems to suspend chance in some way, or twist it. "tossed coins presented the same face every time, and in one test landed balanced on edge one hundred times in a row. One thousand tosses of the dice produced five crowns one thousand times." "Mat would love that"

 

Is it possible that these have any connection with Mats luck? at this point in the book the dice have been stolen by the black Ajah, Mat is in the tower. So is Lanfear, and they have a nice discussion in which Mat feels her channel a few chapters previous. Also, this is the book where Mats luck really starts to come out.

 

Just a random thought, any other opinions? could there be a connection?

[thisguy]

I'm sure this is has been brought up at some point, but i happened to just catch this myself for the first time on my re-read in Ch25 TDR pg294.

 

"Here's one Mat would enjoy," "Item. A carved cluster of six spotted dice, joined at the corners, less than two inches across. Use unknown, save that channeling through it seems to suspend chance in some way, or twist it. "tossed coins presented the same face every time, and in one test landed balanced on edge one hundred times in a row. One thousand tosses of the dice produced five crowns one thousand times." "Mat would love that"

 

Is it possible that these have any connection with Mats luck? at this point in the book the dice have been stolen by the black Ajah, Mat is in the tower. So is Lanfear, and they have a nice discussion in which Mat feels her channel a few chapters previous. Also, this is the book where Mats luck really starts to come out.

 

Just a random thought, any other opinions? could there be a connection?

 

I have wondered the exact thing myself and have no idea. I always wondered where the luck (that sort of luck) came from out of the blue like that.

[Suttree]

I'm sure this is has been brought up at some point, but i happened to just catch this myself for the first time on my re-read in Ch25 TDR pg294.

 

"Here's one Mat would enjoy," "Item. A carved cluster of six spotted dice, joined at the corners, less than two inches across. Use unknown, save that channeling through it seems to suspend chance in some way, or twist it. "tossed coins presented the same face every time, and in one test landed balanced on edge one hundred times in a row. One thousand tosses of the dice produced five crowns one thousand times." "Mat would love that"

 

Is it possible that these have any connection with Mats luck? at this point in the book the dice have been stolen by the black Ajah, Mat is in the tower. So is Lanfear, and they have a nice discussion in which Mat feels her channel a few chapters previous. Also, this is the book where Mats luck really starts to come out.

 

Just a random thought, any other opinions? could there be a connection?

 

I have wondered the exact thing myself and have no idea. I always wondered where the luck (that sort of luck) came from out of the blue like that.

 

Interesting quote on the topic...

 

Interview: Sep 3rd, 2005

DragonCon Report - Isabel (Verbatim)

Question

 

In The Dragon Reborn, Lanfear visits Mat as he is recuperating from his One Power surgery over the dagger. At one point she stretches out her hand towards him and he feels a tingle going over him, somebody interrupts them, and she turns her head and sobs, at about the same time a member of Black Ajah stole angreal and ter'angreal out of the Tower cache, one of which was a ter'angreal that was known to have some effect on chance. So it was about this time that Mat's really really really weird luck and the dice rolling in his head began, is this a connection or coincidence?

Robert Jordan

 

 

That is a coincidence. When they say that Mat has the Dark One's own luck, he can get as mad as he wants to, but in a way it is true. It wasn't a gift from Lanfear, though.

[thisguy]

That is interesting. Thanks, Suttree. "In a way it's true." I wish someone had asked a follow up question like "In what way?" or just plain old "So, how's he so lucky?"

[Durinax]

That is interesting. Thanks, Suttree. "In a way it's true." I wish someone had asked a follow up question like "In what way?" or just plain old "So, how's he so lucky?"

it may be because it was caused by a evil different from the DO.

 

In other words if the dagger caused or enhanced it then it is true in a way because another mega evil caused it.

 

BTW Slayer also mentions that Fain has the DO's own luck

[thisguy]

That is interesting. Thanks, Suttree. "In a way it's true." I wish someone had asked a follow up question like "In what way?" or just plain old "So, how's he so lucky?"

it may be because it was caused by a evil different from the DO.

 

In other words if the dagger caused or enhanced it then it is true in a way because another mega evil caused it.

 

BTW Slayer also mentions that Fain has the DO's own luck

Yeah, and that's a great point. I remember reading that in book 4. It seems to work better for Mat, though.

[Durinax]

That is interesting. Thanks, Suttree. "In a way it's true." I wish someone had asked a follow up question like "In what way?" or just plain old "So, how's he so lucky?"

it may be because it was caused by a evil different from the DO.

 

In other words if the dagger caused or enhanced it then it is true in a way because another mega evil caused it.

 

BTW Slayer also mentions that Fain has the DO's own luck

Yeah, and that's a great point. I remember reading that in book 4. It seems to work better for Mat, though.

I would trade all mats gambling luck (ok maybe not all) for keepin me in one functioning piece

[Byzantine279]

The dice ter'angreal seem to be a weaker, gambling only, version of Mat's ability, but it does seem to show that luck can be supernaturally twisted in odd ways, but it doesn't mean it has a direct connection to Mat.

 

I always assumed that quote from RJ simply meant that Mat was very lucky, and though he might get mad about people saying he has the Dark one's own luck, his luck is simply that good (or to be specific, better).

[mike hunt's here]

Is it the dagger that enhances his luck, or his tav nature? While I have read the books up and down back and front, I am not a big expert on the other stuff like all the regular posters here, so i have to ask.

 

I would think Perrin's leadership skills? are what are enhanced by being tav'eren. Mat - his luck, Rand - his sexual prowess? haha. Just my opinion.

[Maleshub]

Is it the dagger that enhances his luck, or his tav nature? While I have read the books up and down back and front, I am not a big expert on the other stuff like all the regular posters here, so i have to ask.

 

I would think Perrin's leadership skills? are what are enhanced by being tav'eren. Mat - his luck, Rand - his sexual prowess? haha. Just my opinion.

 

Mat's luck changed significantly after he took the Shadar Logoth dagger. I think that is the only good thing he got out of that place, awesome luck and the ability to win gold at will!

[Durinax]

Is it the dagger that enhances his luck, or his tav nature? While I have read the books up and down back and front, I am not a big expert on the other stuff like all the regular posters here, so i have to ask.

 

I would think Perrin's leadership skills? are what are enhanced by being tav'eren. Mat - his luck, Rand - his sexual prowess? haha. Just my opinion.

 

Mat's luck changed significantly after he took the Shadar Logoth dagger. I think that is the only good thing he got out of that place, awesome luck and the ability to win gold at will!

not to mention it cleared out his memories for the general stuff to be put in

[TootThatHorn]

The dice ter'angreal seem to be a weaker, gambling only, version of Mat's ability, but it does seem to show that luck can be supernaturally twisted in odd ways, but it doesn't mean it has a direct connection to Mat.

 

I always assumed that quote from RJ simply meant that Mat was very lucky, and though he might get mad about people saying he has the Dark one's own luck, his luck is simply that good (or to be specific, better).

 

except that if they come in to play later, we only know that they were tested for easy things that include chance, such as tossing coins, but that doesn't mean they can't influence other events as well. RAFO

[Vardar]

The dice take active channeling though.

 

The tingle he felt with lanfear was compulsion, his head started to hurt.

 

I still thought it was a really random thing to toss into the book to never mention again especially considerng Mat's luck.

[Luckers]

The tingle he felt with lanfear was compulsion, his head started to hurt.

 

Actually she was checking his health. The full version of the quote offered earlier is this...

 

Question

 

In The Dragon Reborn, Lanfear visits Mat as he is recuperating from his One Power surgery over the dagger. At one point she stretches out her hand towards him and he feels a tingle going over him, somebody interrupts them, and she turns her head and sobs, at about the same time a member of Black Ajah stole angreal and ter'angreal out of the Tower cache, one of which was a ter'angreal that was known to have some effect on chance. So it was about this time that Mat's really really really weird luck and the dice rolling in his head began, is this a connection or coincidence?

Robert Jordan

 

That is a coincidence. When they say that Mat has the Dark One's own luck, he can get as mad as he wants to, but in a way it is true. It wasn't a gift from Lanfear, though.

 

Isabel

 

[Hehe, another theory busted, and a very interesting answer. I am going for Shadar Logoth now.]

 

Question

 

In that case, what was Lanfear doing?

 

Robert Jordan

 

She was checking his health. She doesn't care very much, except that he is important to Rand, to Lews Therin, him and Perrin both, so she is interested in, the one she wants mainly is Lews Therin, or wanted anyway, and uh, so she is interested in these other two ta'veren, who seemed to be tied in with him, because they might be important to him.

[Vardar]

The tingle he felt with lanfear was compulsion, his head started to hurt.

 

Actually she was checking his health. The full version of the quote offered earlier is this...

 

Question

 

In The Dragon Reborn, Lanfear visits Mat as he is recuperating from his One Power surgery over the dagger. At one point she stretches out her hand towards him and he feels a tingle going over him, somebody interrupts them, and she turns her head and sobs, at about the same time a member of Black Ajah stole angreal and ter'angreal out of the Tower cache, one of which was a ter'angreal that was known to have some effect on chance. So it was about this time that Mat's really really really weird luck and the dice rolling in his head began, is this a connection or coincidence?

Robert Jordan

 

That is a coincidence. When they say that Mat has the Dark One's own luck, he can get as mad as he wants to, but in a way it is true. It wasn't a gift from Lanfear, though.

 

Isabel

 

[Hehe, another theory busted, and a very interesting answer. I am going for Shadar Logoth now.]

 

Question

 

In that case, what was Lanfear doing?

 

Robert Jordan

 

She was checking his health. She doesn't care very much, except that he is important to Rand, to Lews Therin, him and Perrin both, so she is interested in, the one she wants mainly is Lews Therin, or wanted anyway, and uh, so she is interested in these other two ta'veren, who seemed to be tied in with him, because they might be important to him.

 

Doesn't he feel pressure in that same scene?

[b3arz3rg3r]

What I would be interested in is whether Mat's luck is strong enough to defeat the loaded dice ter'angreal.

[Luckers]

He feels a tingle and his headache returns, then both vanish as Lanfear senses something (possibly a woman channeling nearby) and leaves.

 

The tingle and the headache returning are likely the result of a less than gentle Delving (which does cause a tingle).

[Vardar]

He feels a tingle and his headache returns, then both vanish as Lanfear senses something (possibly a woman channeling nearby) and leaves.

 

The tingle and the headache returning are likely the result of a less than gentle Delving (which does cause a tingle).

 

Ahh. The headache came as she got an answer from him she didn't like, I took it as her about to compell him.

[Luckers]

It's possible she was checking his health as a prelude to pressing him harder--making sure he wouldn't drop dead if she did--but then she was interupted by something.

 

Actually come to think of it I'm guessing she placed wardings to alert her if anyone approached so she wouldn't get caught out--Siuan and Leane enter the room not long after she leaves.

[Vardar]

It's possible she was checking his health as a prelude to pressing him harder--making sure he wouldn't drop dead if she did--but then she was interupted by something.

 

Actually come to think of it I'm guessing she placed wardings to alert her if anyone approached so she wouldn't get caught out--Siuan and Leane enter the room not long after she leaves.

 

I always thought she sensed their channeling ability, knew they were coming, and ditched.

[Luckers]

It's possible she was checking his health as a prelude to pressing him harder--making sure he wouldn't drop dead if she did--but then she was interupted by something.

 

Actually come to think of it I'm guessing she placed wardings to alert her if anyone approached so she wouldn't get caught out--Siuan and Leane enter the room not long after she leaves.

 

I always thought she sensed their channeling ability, knew they were coming, and ditched.

 

Too much distance. They would have been right on top of her if that were the case.

[Byzantine279]

Wonder what would happen if Mat went against the Dice, would probability break?

[Vardar]

It's possible she was checking his health as a prelude to pressing him harder--making sure he wouldn't drop dead if she did--but then she was interupted by something.

 

Actually come to think of it I'm guessing she placed wardings to alert her if anyone approached so she wouldn't get caught out--Siuan and Leane enter the room not long after she leaves.

 

I always thought she sensed their channeling ability, knew they were coming, and ditched.

 

Too much distance. They would have been right on top of her if that were the case.

 

If they were holding the source?

[Vardar]

Wonder what would happen if Mat went against the Dice, would probability break?

 

The last battle would be won.

 

Or the dice would all land on their corners.

[Byzantine279]

And Mat would land on his pinky, right? (despite never having left the ground, of course)