[August Discussion]: The Black Tower in and after AMoL

[ThorkinBarrimore]

I guess it starts out with the rules for linking. I think men cannot link without women (Lews Therin learned that). A circle of women cannot exceed 13 without a man. For circles with more than two men, there must be at least one more woman than there are men. The largest possible circle is 72 channelers. Adding one man to a circle of 13 women allows the inclusion of 13 more women, while the addition of a second allows 17 more women. Six men are necessary to bring a circle to 72, but it is unknown what effect the third, fourth, and fifth men have.

 

Now, ever since the beginning of the Bore being opened, it's said that the Dark One has touched all mankind. Both Moiraine and later Sheriam in Chapter 22 of The Dragon Reborn entitled The Price of the Ring confirm that "our greatest strength will be our greatest weakness." If someone can channel (either male of female) that means they possess the ability to open themselves up to the One Power. That also means they can be opened up to to other things. Like on the Internet. Your line connects you to something but it also connects you with the possibility of something connecting to you.

 

Are you seeing where I'm going yet? It seems Lews Therin (while in Rand's head) screams in agony every time someone comes around who can channel. He says to KILL THEM! KILL THEM ALL! I believe the Dark One has the ability to "touch" anyone who can channel. Just like he's influenced the rise of war and other things ever since being opened. And the True Power (his well of power) cannot be detected. Only 30 of his followers ever used it during the Age of Legends, Now, just Moridin, Graendal (on a limited basis), and he let both Lews Therin (to travel to where Dragonmount would be in the Prologue of tEotW) and Rand al'Thor to break the sad bracelets and balefire (with the TP not Saidin) Semirhage. The Dark One can touch both Saidar and Saidin. I feel he tainted Saidin both to get back at Lews Therin and because it was only male channelers present at that time.

 

Rand seen the touch in Weiramon's eyes and tells him and that other Darkfriend lady to go and tell the others he knows. Rand can see the Dark One's touch. Even if they cannot channel. Weiramon couldn't. That's why Rand has to fully unleash him and seal him up completely this time. He must break the remaining seals. As long as he does not then the Dark One can never be sealed off completely and everyone who can channel is at risk.

 

Sheriam even said that you can fight Compulsion with your will to a certain degree but it seems you can't fight this. Did you ever wonder why the Shadow was winning so quickly in the War of Power? Why so many deserted and as Lews Therin said, "The Hall of Servents destroyed." Latra even refused to let LTT use the female channlers for the sealing of the Bore so he had to try it with just the men and failed. I think that The Dark One can touch them. Latra Posae Decume was leading the female Aes Sedai during the Age of Legends.She opposed Lews Therin's initual plan and he was going to go with her's due to popularity but when her's was also deemed to fail then people went back to Lews Therin as a last resort. But she refused to help and all of the female AS did too so LTT's Seven Seals Plan ultimately failed. I feel that Latra has been rethreaded in the Pattern as Egwene. There is, of course, little actual evidence of this but the possibility exists.

 

Mierin or Lanfear was part of the research team that caused the Bore because they felt this weird new energy but they didn't know it was the Dark One just that it was apart from the OP and very concentrated. He influenced a world that knew no war or fighting at all for almost one hundred years before the actual War of the Shadow. During that time his followers Compulsed and used a strange new way of linking to force prominent people to the Dark against their will. Later, after Lews Therin's death, she rose to greater prominence than him during the Breaking and died during that time after fighting the Shadow all that time. She was later named the Shadar Nor or Slicer of the Shadow. Egwene could be this as she broke the mind of Messana. I've had lots of coffee.

[yoniy0]

I'm sorry ThorkinBarrimore, I'm still not sure I see where you were going. Are you saying that the way to Seal the DO is to kill the ability to channel out of the human genome?

 

BTW why do you think LTT used the TP to Travel in TEotW prologue? Doesn't it specifically say he reached to the True Source?

[ThorkinBarrimore]

Yes, I ramble a lot while being on way too much caffeine. That was more of an all encompassing theory in truth.

 

Ishamael Healed him slightly from the madness (using the TP) for LTT to realize what he had done and I believe that he then used the TP to Travel to the spot that would eventually become Dragonmount using it due to the evidence that it ripped the air, which is how Ishamael and the TP Travels. If he was using saidin then it would make a gateway and I don't think it did from what I remember. It ripped a hole almost immediately.

 

I don't think you can 'kill" the Dark One but properly seal him in is all. If you killed him than it would destroy thesense of balance in the Pattern or in the Universe. I believe the Seals must me properly broken and, using both the strongest male&female channelers and all five powers (Air, Earth, Fire, etc.) to fix it for good. Probably creating that circle of 72 channlers to do it. Just my opinion though.

[yoniy0]

I believe that he then used the TP to Travel to the spot that would eventually become Dragonmount using it due to the evidence that it ripped the air, which is how Ishamael and the TP Travels. If he was using saidin then it would make a gateway and I don't think it did from what I remember. It ripped a hole almost immediately.

Actually, we don't know what it looked like, only that he used the True Source:

Desperately he reached out to the True Source, to tainted saidin, and he Traveled.

The land around him was flat and empty.

You must be thinking of the method Elan Morin used to Travel, which indeed implies use of the TP:

On the island, the air shimmered and coalesced. The black-clad man stood staring at the fiery mountain

rising out of the plain.

[Millon]

I still think Elaida's fortelling isn't a real fortelling. It sounds too straightforward compared to other prophecy. She was at a breaking point and had a melt down and told herself what she needed to hear. Isn't it true too that people who have fortellings cannot recall what they said?

[yoniy0]

No, not always.

[Niniel]

I still think Elaida's fortelling isn't a real fortelling. It sounds too straightforward compared to other prophecy. She was at a breaking point and had a melt down and told herself what she needed to hear. Isn't it true too that people who have fortellings cannot recall what they said?

 

I doubt we would see a fake fortelling.

[Gabby]

I agree with Tina. It doesn't really fir with Elaida's character eiither.

[Millon]

So you think her fortelling is not at all different than any other we have seen? It was a mental break down.

[Niniel]

Thanks to everyone that took part in this discussion. It was very interesting to follow.

 

Extra thanks to Yoni0 for taking his time to write that ambitious first post and keeping up with the thread. If you ever want to explore the SG side of DM you have some points waiting for you in the BT.

 

Even though August is over you are of course welcome to continue the discussion. I will keep in pinned for a few more days.

 

10 points to:

 

Tina

Tress

Niel

Random

Rand

Turin

Mik

Tiinker

Cindy

Pankhuri

Kari

Taltos

Thorkin

Millon

[yoniy0]

Hey, is this like WLIIA? Can I award some points?

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

you can give imaginary points, but... they're all imaginary points anyway :)

[Niniel]

Hey, is this like WLIIA? Can I award some points?

 

lol No. Well, not unless you give them to me of course.

[yoniy0]

OK guys, I was hoping the DragonCon reading would reflect on the situation in the BT, but since it turned out to be just a random Mat PoV, I guess we can wrap this up for now. It's been great talking with you guys, and I'll keep tabs on this thread if you have anything else you'd like to talk about. I also promise to update you here if we do get sample material that's relevant to the BT.

 

Until then, au revoir!

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

stay! join!

 

srlsly, you know you're tired of being serious.

[yoniy0]

As a parting gift, cindy, you can have 11,000 of TinaHel's points (hey, I'm not awarding anything, just reordering a bit).

[Niniel]

And you will get a kick on your way out.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

As a parting gift, cindy, you can have 11,000 of TinaHel's points (hey, I'm not awarding anything, just reordering a bit).

 

sweet!

 

 

[Gabby]

As a parting gift, cindy, you can have 11,000 of TinaHel's points (hey, I'm not awarding anything, just reordering a bit).

 

sweet!

I wish I were you, Cindy

[Mik]

I need some TLC.

 

I'm going to make a t-shirt that reads;

I came up with the most crazy theory and all I got was 10 points (and I had to make this t-shirt myself)

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

in this tower ten points is a good score.

 

hang around more you'll make a bundle more.

 

they're imaginary, but all external validation is.

 

um, no you don't, Kari, promise.

[Mik]

in this tower ten points is a good score.

You got 10 points for showing up.... *shrugs*

You're right the points mean little -sure-, but if you hand them out, you shouldn't be downplaying their meaning; you should give credit where it is due, regardless of their actual value. Yon deserved a golden throne for his efforts.

 

hang around more you'll make a bundle more.

I try.. a little. Like I said, Time binds me tightly.

 

they're imaginary, but all external validation is.

Very untrue...and you know it. Your words put a smile on a face that doesn't smile often and certainly didn't have much to smile about on D'mount (just go re-read some old threads that I participated in and read the crap that was poured over my head)

 

You lit a candle in a place devoid of light. My smile wasn't imaginary, nor was your validation.

http://www.dragonmou...e/#entry1865606

I still look at it ocasionally, when I myself doubt the seeds I sow here...

 

It is the main reason why I am still here (on D'mount) and the reason I bath in the Taint.

[yoniy0]

I talked with TinaHel about revisiting this now that the prologue is out, and we decided to wait for a bit until more people had a chance to read it (so, please hold off on the spoilers for now, people).

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

in this tower ten points is a good score.

You got 10 points for showing up.... *shrugs*

You're right the points mean little -sure-, but if you hand them out, you shouldn't be downplaying their meaning; you should give credit where it is due, regardless of their actual value. Yon deserved a golden throne for his efforts.

 

hang around more you'll make a bundle more.

I try.. a little. Like I said, Time binds me tightly.

 

they're imaginary, but all external validation is.

Very untrue...and you know it. Your words put a smile on a face that doesn't smile often and certainly didn't have much to smile about on D'mount (just go re-read some old threads that I participated in and read the crap that was poured over my head)

 

You lit a candle in a place devoid of light. My smile wasn't imaginary, nor was your validation.

http://www.dragonmou...e/#entry1865606

I still look at it ocasionally, when I myself doubt the seeds I sow here...

 

It is the main reason why I am still here (on D'mount) and the reason I bath in the Taint.

 

 

I'm smiling, too.

 

those points yoni gave me were imaginary, btw, even moreso than the regular ones... but the external validation you just provided was not.

 

won't derail this particular thread any more, it's too good, and not done.

 

but for the smile I'll give you ten real points. on October 1st, lol, cause I am a bad points manager. and I'd give you a lot more if I had them, but you have all my good will.

 

thank you...