Does Lan qualify as a Hero of the Horn?

[mike hunt's here]

I read in another thread he is considered the current top master of the sword. Given all his other accomplishments - does he make "hero of horn" status?

 

I am subliminally asking - if he dies, maybe Nyneave rips him out of the dream, not Rand.

[lolguy26]

I think he should qualify but we find his fate on January :D

[TristanWebb]

I don't think he qualifies as a new hero, but there may be an argument for him already being bound to the wheel.

 

He just hasn't done anything really spectacular. He follows around a woman he isn't in love with for 30 years because he is running away from the golden crane. Not really worthy IMO.

[Maleshub]

Lan took Tam's place in Rand's life after he left the Two Rivers. He was a powerful steadying force who put some sense into Rand's head, and a trusted friend.

 

Lan and Thom are probably the two most important support characters in WoT. Whether that qualifies either of them as a hero, I don't know. But if Artur Hawkwing thought that Hurin might join the gang, why not Lan or Thom?

[MountaineerWV]

I could buy Lan and Thom as Heros of the Horn.

 

Lan has several attributes of a possible Hero. Last King of a nation swallowed by evil. Sworn to fight from the cradle. The best swordsman (perhaps ever). He is a MAJOR player in the war against the DO.

 

Thom is a master manipulator. Perhaps the most skilled player in the Great Game. His actions have saved Rand and Mat several times, probably saved Morgase, Elayne, and Gwayn, and caused a civil war. He has also been a major supporter of Egwene, Nyn, and Elyane in multiple instances.

 

I do not like how some people think that every dang character with a name in the WoT is a HotH, but it does make sense that a significantly larger portion of the HotH would be spun out at this point in history.

[Kamin_Majere]

I really dont think he would (or really anyone in this age) If it were so easy to be a Hero of the Horn then there would be millions of them. Every age has people that do great things and their have so many ages that they are uncountable. Its got to take something more than that to be a Hero of the Horn.

 

The ones that are there might not even be that impressive compared to people like Lan... it might just be a "glitch" in the pattern that makes them Heroes.

 

Just because the current age has the books, doesn't mean it is special, so the ones that become Heroes of the Horn are rare indeed. Lan isnt even the best swordsman ever (just the best in the current age) so compared to hawkwing and the like i dont seem him making it (or any of these 3rd agers really)

[b3arz3rg3r]

Nah, Lan didn't do enough. He's an excellent swordsman, but that's about it. He didn't take the leading role in any legendary adventure. If there are any new contenders for new people to be bound to the horn it's Mat and Perrin. If they aren't bound already.

[Entreri]

Being the #1 blademaster and probably GOAT blademaster (after Moraine's death) by itself is insufficient. We will have to see in the final book.

 

When one becomes a Hero of the Horn, is that permanent? We know that Brigitte for example has led normal boring lives in some of her incarnations.

[TommyRocker]

I think the Hurin bit might be taken too heavily into account. Hurin is a good character, but let's be honest... He is very average, except for his sense of smell. I think Hawkwing's comments were likely just him being a stand-up guy and building Hurin up before a battle. I really strongly doubt that Hurin is HotH material, UNLESS he is already bound and this is one of his ho-hum lives (as Birgitte already stated sometimes happens to Heroes).

[Suttree]

Nah, Lan didn't do enough. He's an excellent swordsman, but that's about it. He didn't take the leading role in any legendary adventure. If there are any new contenders for new people to be bound to the horn it's Mat and Perrin. If they aren't bound already.

 

The Aiel and their nickname for him based on his exploits suggest he has had legendary adventures. Don't forget he had lived a full life waging his one man war before meeting Moir.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Nah, Lan didn't do enough. He's an excellent swordsman, but that's about it. He didn't take the leading role in any legendary adventure. If there are any new contenders for new people to be bound to the horn it's Mat and Perrin. If they aren't bound already.

 

The Aiel and their nickname for him based on his exploits suggest he has had legendary adventures. Don't forget he had lived a full life waging his one man war before meeting Moir.

 

Still not enough compared to what the other heroes did. Lan is "merely" famous and not about to inspire legends like the heroes of the horn. Half his life he spent as Moiraine's sidekick and his private war against the Blight was just a completely pointless waste of time. If someone like Lan made the cut there would be thousands of heroes and not just barely over a hundred.

[Suttree]

Nah, Lan didn't do enough. He's an excellent swordsman, but that's about it. He didn't take the leading role in any legendary adventure. If there are any new contenders for new people to be bound to the horn it's Mat and Perrin. If they aren't bound already.

 

The Aiel and their nickname for him based on his exploits suggest he has had legendary adventures. Don't forget he had lived a full life waging his one man war before meeting Moir.

 

Still not enough compared to what the other heroes did. Lan is "merely" famous and not about to inspire legends like the heroes of the horn. Half his life he spent as Moiraine's sidekick and his private war against the Blight was just a completely pointless waste of time. If someone like Lan made the cut there would be thousands of heroes and not just barely over a hundred.

 

A heroic war and discovering the DR and that wouldnt make the cut? Also we have no idea what he has done in his other lives. Brigitte having lived normal lives is proof there is variance.

[Kamin_Majere]

Technically Moiraine discovered the Dragon Reborn... if not for her he would have died alone in the blight and become trolloc food about 15-20 years ago. Now i'm glad she came along and he became a much better character than deserves that death, but he would have died fighting the blight by himself

 

its funny how the pattern worked everything together :)

[Suttree]

Technically Moiraine discovered the Dragon Reborn... if not for her he would have died alone in the blight and become trolloc food about 15-20 years ago. Now i'm glad she came along and he became a much better character than deserves that death, but he would have died fighting the blight by himself

 

its funny how the pattern worked everything together :)

 

That goes both ways though. It was said he saved her life many times over as well.

[Kamin_Majere]

true lol aes sedai seem a bit more foolhardy than they should be

[Treebeard]

No and no he dose not qualify as a hero , yeah all right he may be a awesome warrior and all that but just because of that you cant qualify him as a hero of the horn and the argument that he has tutored Rand ( the DS) is plain ridiculous then Tam , Rurach , Avhienda and a bunch other people come in question , the heros are supreme beings not some warder who happens to bee very good with a sword. ( i could consider Mat and Perrin )

[Suttree]

( i could consider Mat and Perrin )

 

Because getting all emo about Faile for books on end and being willing to sacrifice the light and make a deal with the DO makes one a HotH?

[Treebeard]

well cut Perrin out then , didn't quite think that through, but Mat I will keep ( even if i will make it clear that he is the one in this that should be allowed in if anybody)

[b3arz3rg3r]

( i could consider Mat and Perrin )

 

Because getting all emo about Faile for books on end and being willing to sacrifice the light and make a deal with the DO makes one a HotH?

 

Nah, more like being very strong ta'veren, being the bannerman of the Dragon Reborn, becoming the Wolfking, forging a hammer which no doubt will inspire its own legends and whatever he will do in the Last Battle is what makes one a hero. And Mat is even better legend material. Hornsounder, killing Couladin, marrying Fortuona, the Band and winning through the Tower of Ghenjei.

 

Those two will be famous for hundreds, if not thousands of years. Lan won't. He'll certainly make the history books, but the average people won't know of him unlike Mat and Perrin.

[Suttree]

( i could consider Mat and Perrin )

 

Because getting all emo about Faile for books on end and being willing to sacrifice the light and make a deal with the DO makes one a HotH?

 

Nah, more like being very strong ta'veren, being the bannerman of the Dragon Reborn, becoming the Wolfking, forging a hammer which no doubt will inspire its own legends and whatever he will do in the Last Battle is what makes one a hero. And Mat is even better legend material. Hornsounder, killing Couladin, marrying Fortuona, the Band and winning through the Tower of Ghenjei.

 

Those two will be famous for hundreds, if not thousands of years. Lan won't. He'll certainly make the history books, but the average people won't know of him unlike Mat and Perrin.

 

It was sarcasm, should have labelled it as such.

 

I should ask though why having someone be ta'veren which we know comes and goes would have bearing on being a HotH though? For that matter the DR bannerman...what about the soldier that got killed in the early books then?

 

Also we are counting potential future actions now? What about Lan and the charge he is on and his actions in the LB? Your list aside from creating the hammer leaves something to be desired.

[b3arz3rg3r]

( i could consider Mat and Perrin )

 

Because getting all emo about Faile for books on end and being willing to sacrifice the light and make a deal with the DO makes one a HotH?

 

Nah, more like being very strong ta'veren, being the bannerman of the Dragon Reborn, becoming the Wolfking, forging a hammer which no doubt will inspire its own legends and whatever he will do in the Last Battle is what makes one a hero. And Mat is even better legend material. Hornsounder, killing Couladin, marrying Fortuona, the Band and winning through the Tower of Ghenjei.

 

Those two will be famous for hundreds, if not thousands of years. Lan won't. He'll certainly make the history books, but the average people won't know of him unlike Mat and Perrin.

 

It was sarcasm, should have labelled it as such.

 

I should ask though why having someone be ta'veren which we know comes and goes would have bearing on being a HotH though? For that matter the DR bannerman...what about the soldier that got killed in the early books then?

 

I think all the Heroes were ta'veren in their more famous lives. In those lives the HotH were spun out by the Wheel to drive the Pattern in a certain direction and that's very close to being ta'veren.

I kind of expect Perrin to be Rand's bannerman again when the Horn is blown for the second time and being the bannerman when the Horn of Valere is something noteworthy.

 

 

Also we are counting potential future actions now? What about Lan and the charge he is on and his actions in the LB?

 

Are you seriously doubting that Mat and Perrin will have crucial contributions to the Last Battle? Or are you suggesting that Lan's might be even nearly as important as the ones of those two? Either sounds ridiculous to me.

 

As for Lan's charge, that charge is doomed to fail which is why Nynaeve begged Rand to save her husband's ass.

 

Your list aside from creating the hammer leaves something to be desired.

 

Why am I not surprised? You and me couldn't agree that water is wet.

That said I think you really overlook this whole Wolfking deal. He publicly admitted it during his trial and you just know that story is going to spread like wildfire, if it hasn't already. There's no doubt in my mind that the ability of talking to wolves as well as his heightened senses will become equally famous as say Birgitte's archery or Rogosh's "Eagleeye" etc. What does Lan have? A stony face?

[Suttree]

( i could consider Mat and Perrin )

 

Because getting all emo about Faile for books on end and being willing to sacrifice the light and make a deal with the DO makes one a HotH?

 

Nah, more like being very strong ta'veren, being the bannerman of the Dragon Reborn, becoming the Wolfking, forging a hammer which no doubt will inspire its own legends and whatever he will do in the Last Battle is what makes one a hero. And Mat is even better legend material. Hornsounder, killing Couladin, marrying Fortuona, the Band and winning through the Tower of Ghenjei.

 

Those two will be famous for hundreds, if not thousands of years. Lan won't. He'll certainly make the history books, but the average people won't know of him unlike Mat and Perrin.

 

It was sarcasm, should have labelled it as such.

 

I should ask though why having someone be ta'veren which we know comes and goes would have bearing on being a HotH though? For that matter the DR bannerman...what about the soldier that got killed in the early books then?

 

I think all the Heroes were ta'veren in their more famous lives. In those lives the HotH were spun out by the Wheel to drive the Pattern in a certain direction and that's very close to being ta'veren.

I kind of expect Perrin to be Rand's bannerman again when the Horn is blown for the second time and being the bannerman when the Horn of Valere is something noteworthy.

 

 

Also we are counting potential future actions now? What about Lan and the charge he is on and his actions in the LB?

 

Are you seriously doubting that Mat and Perrin will have crucial contributions to the Last Battle? Or are you suggesting that Lan's might be even nearly as important as the ones of those two? Either sounds ridiculous to me.

 

As for Lan's charge, that charge is doomed to fail which is why Nynaeve begged Rand to save her husband's ass.

 

Your list aside from creating the hammer leaves something to be desired.

 

Why am I not surprised? You and me couldn't agree that water is wet.

That said I think you really overlook this whole Wolfking deal. He publicly admitted it during his trial and you just know that story is going to spread like wildfire, if it hasn't already. There's no doubt in my mind that the ability of talking to wolves as well as his heightened senses will become equally famous as say Birgitte's archery or Rogosh's "Eagleeye" etc. What does Lan have? A stony face?

 

You are actually right mate(although the ta'veren part in all their famous lives I might still question). I started the Lan post joking and then half heartedly tried to run with a counter argument. Once I put a bit of thought to the whole thing it doesn't really hold up.

[thisguy]

I don't even know if being ta'averen is enough to be one of the heroes of the horn. There's only 100 (around) and you have to assume there's been many "final" battles with the dark one and so many heroes before.

 

As for Perrin being no big deal. I think he's a huge deal. However, modern day western man has mostly forgotten what a big deal wolves once were. They were mostly thought of as evil in folklore, myth and legend. I think Jordan picked him to be a brother of the wolf for a reason. I think if we were reading these stories a few hundred years ago in Europe, the idea of a brother of the wolf and wolves being on the side of good would have been a very big deal. Think of Dumai's Well. That chapter was awesome in part because of Perrin and the wolves. Unfortunately, he hasn't been given his chance to shine in the same way as Rand and Mat have. He's been as afraid of losing himself to the wolves as Rand has of going insane and touching saidan. He's also become one of the more powerful good guys in terms of the dream world. If the dream world had been used for more than just secret meetings he would seem a much bigger deal, I think.

[tje]

I think much of this argument depends on whether or not you believe it is possible for the number of heroes to grow rather than be finite. I may have missed it but I dont remember seeing RJ or BS stating either way. I am of the belief that the number of heroes is stagnant, this is based on the fact that the heroes are spun out in an infinite number of lives. If the number can grow then I think the requirements to become one are much much stricter and don't believe Lan would necessarily qualify right now. If it is finite then I think Lan probably is a hero spun out. Just my two cents

[b3arz3rg3r]

I think much of this argument depends on whether or not you believe it is possible for the number of heroes to grow rather than be finite. I may have missed it but I dont remember seeing RJ or BS stating either way. I am of the belief that the number of heroes is stagnant, this is based on the fact that the heroes are spun out in an infinite number of lives. If the number can grow then I think the requirements to become one are much much stricter and don't believe Lan would necessarily qualify right now. If it is finite then I think Lan probably is a hero spun out. Just my two cents

 

Hawkwing himself told us in TGH that there are new Heroes bound to the Horn from time to time. And in that case I would say he was speaking with the voice of RJ.