"He Shall Bind the Nine Moons..."

[MoonBeams]

Here are the facts:

1. we know the "prophecies of the Dragon" on Randland side says that "he will bind the nine moons to him" and the prophecies on the Seanchan side says the Dragon Reborn must kneel before the Crystal Throne.

2. Tuon is now the empress

3. Rand has asked to meet with her and arrange a truce

4. Tuon's "Truthspeaker" turns out to really be a Forsaken in disguise.

5. Tuon married Mat.

 

Question: How will Rand bind the "Nine Moons" to him??

 

I believe that when he finally gets to meet with Tuon, he will bring Semirhage along to show Tuon that she had a Forsaken in her ruling council (whether she was aware of this or not). Tuon's eyes will be lowered and Rand will be able to make whatever bargain he wants.

 

Any comments?

[Kadere]

I think he'll also be able to use the Mat Tuon marriage to his advantage as well.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I believe that when he finally gets to meet with Tuon, he will bring Semirhage along to show Tuon that she had a Forsaken in her ruling council (whether she was aware of this or not). Tuon's eyes will be lowered and Rand will be able to make whatever bargain he wants.

 

While this no doubt strengthens Rand's bargaining position, I still doubt he gets to make "whatever bargain he wants".

[caraieil]

I believe Mat and Rands ta'veren link will work in Rands favour. However, I can't imagine Tuon giving in easily ; so it will be a bargain rather than a demand or command, as it were.

Just my take, who knows, could go any way.

[Mercer]

I think the general consensus is that the Seanchan prophecy in that respect was falsified, correct me if I'm wrong. And I believe part of the binding is already happening, via Mat. Other than that, a compact of some sort between Rand and Tuon, the Seanchan stopping their quest to take over the continent, aiding him in fighting the shadow directly...in exchange for territory. Seems to go along with a few of the prophecies mentioned, as well.

[rd2000]

And Rand letting them keep the land they have already secured seems plausible considering how close TG is. He is getting desperate to finish marshalling his forces.

[Luckers]

Whilst Rand didn't really think about it in these terms, letting the sul'dam and damane that Semirhage brought with her go will see to it that knowledge of what took place there will spread... possibly to everyone, but equally possibly just to Tuon. In either case it will serve to bring home to Tuon the true danger of the Shadow... recall that to the Seanchan the Shadow, Shadowspawn and Tarmon Gai'don are alive only in memory. A living person to represent the reality of the threat of the Shadow will not be ignored especially given the things Tuon saw while travelling with Mat that indicate the iminence of the Last Battle.

 

In comes Rand... i, like Robert, do not see him getting everything he wants... Tuon is too savvy for that. No, i think that all he will ask for is a ceasation of all hostilities (including leashing) and an agreement that they work together to defeat the Shadow... and i think Tuon will agree. She is not stupid, and she is not an Aes Sedai to demand pointless things merely to prove her position of power.

 

That she thinks Rand needs to kneel will prove to be an interesting plot moment, i suspect, but it will not hold her long. And since we know, from the wording, that the result of that meeting will be the one Rand wants i think we can dismiss there being any long term drama about this issue.

 

Heres a question though... will Tuon demand Semirhage be turned over to her, and if so, what will Rand do?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Heres a question though... will Tuon demand Semirhage be turned over to her, and if so, what will Rand do?

 

That is an interesting question, and a very real possibility ... as well as a potential point of friction, since I see Rand refusing point blank.

[caraieil]

Is it possible semirhage will be leashed by the Seanchen, after all Tuon trains Damane and semi seems like a perfect candidate to be used in the last battle against the forces of dark, especially if Rand can sever her from the dark one? This should be possible, I beleive.

Tuon will want to take something from the treaty and we'll have to see what Rand offers.

[Master of the Blades]

This is my prediction on how the DOT will be bound to the DR.

 

Mat and Rand will be reunited in northern Altara. When Mat finds out about Rand's quest to bind the DOT, he will admit to being married to Tuon. Verin will arrive with the Horn of Valere.

 

Rand and Mat will meet Tuon and Mat will sound the horn. When Tuon realizes that Hawkwing follows the Dragon Reborn she will have no choice but to be bound as well. She would not fight it since she believes that the 100 companions are invincible.

[CrazyMike]

I believe Tuon's binding via Mat is very Weak,,, she is strong and has her own vision that she will stick to,,, as for Simerhage pretending to be Tuon , that will not lower her face but the involvement of some of her court with a forsaken will weaken her posistion and maybe make her more reasonable,,, after all the final battle is coming and she does want the light to win not the DO,,, however, Tuon's vision of right and wrong is skewed...

[Dunedain Fal]

I thought of one way of binding the Nine Moons to him and satisfying the Seachan prophecy at the same time.

 

All he needs is to gate to the Seachan capital and kneel before the Crystal throne .... while it's empty. Once he does that, he satisfies the Seachan prophecy and his ego at the same time. :lol:

 

And then he takes the throne. Bring it back to Randland and show it to all Seachan. They will have no choice because he is now the DA MAN, the emperor and all Deathwatch Guards will have to obey him, including the Seekers for Truth.

 

But I don't think this will happen because it is too easy, too simple for the Creator also known as RJ.

[Mercer]

^ Also, I believe RJ said they won't be heading to Seanchan at all. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[algspkr]

Is it possible semirhage will be leashed by the Seanchen, after all Tuon trains Damane and semi seems like a perfect candidate to be used in the last battle against the forces of dark, especially if Rand can sever her from the dark one? This should be possible, I beleive.

Tuon will want to take something from the treaty and we'll have to see what Rand offers.

I don't see Rand giving away Cadsuane's new toy, especially if it will signifantly increase the strength of the Seanchan.

[DemandredFO]

The Horn of Valere thing is interesting and that could be what "bind the Daughter of the Nine Moons" is since Tuon may not believe in Ishamael tapering with the prophecy no matter who tells her, even Moridin. They are a very omen-concious people, for all we know Perrin being the wolfking and Tylee knowing it may "bind her" while Mat is of rescuing Moraine. I think the Perrin-wolfking scenario being more likely since I see mat off rescuing Moraine concurrently.

[Luckers]

1. The Mainsequence novels will not go to Seanchan again.

2. Sitting the Crystal Throne does not an Emperor make. The Crystal Throne only inspires awe. Just like if a commoner suddenly grew his nails and shaved his head, it does not make him one of the Blood.

3. I dont see Tuon being impressed byt the Horn. She knows what it is, and would be reasonably impressed that Mat had blown it... but into given over completely... never.

4. I also do not see Rand giving Semirhage to the Seanchan, she represents too much of a tactical advantage, not to mention a fount of potentially dangerous knowledge, for that. But i still think it will present an interesting moment.

[rd2000]

Rand's conscience would not let him allow any woman, even Semirhage, to be collared.

[mightisright]

I have always assumed the Seachan version of the prophesy was tainted, but what if Rand really does need to kneel to Tuon. There are a lot of ways you could twist what kneeling to the crystal throne means. And seriously what if all Rand needs to do is kneel to her and then she agrees to cooperate fully (with his plans) as far as the last battle goes? I mean that hits his arrogance problem front and center as far as the prophecies go.

 

Now debunk me. I'm too tired to read the relavant passages right now. I know the perspectives we have from Tuon don't really support this but please fire away i'm interested to have this fleshed out more.

[Guest Majsju]

Rand's position right now certainly does not indicate anything about him kneeling to any senchan. Either they stop fighting and join him against the DO, or they will be destroyed. There is not exactly room for Tuon to try to voice any childish demands about anyone kneeling.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Rand's conscience would not let him allow any woman, even Semirhage, to be collared.

 

Um, Rand just sent the damane that were with Semirhage back to the Seanchan still collared, over the objections of Nynaeve and disapproval of Cadsuane. Still, I don't see him letting Semirhage out of his control.

[caraieil]

Semirhage won't go to Seanchen, However I don't see why she cannot be collared, as a forsken and a murderer.

I think Tuon would hand over a collar to Rand to do this. It would not be harmful to semirhage if she accepted that she cannot control her own destiny. It would remove her as a threat without killing-not an option- or stilling-aurguably crueler than collaring, so...

Rand wil remember what happened when he couldn't harm Lanfear and perhaps will choose the lesser of two evils.

I'm not saying it will happen, it's just an option I see as possible and favourable.

I've always seen the seanchen prophesies as corrupted, being younger than the randland versions, but hey perhaps rand will end up kneeling in an odd way i.e. it will not appear that he is kneeling out of defference to tuon, otherwise i don't see it happening. The leashing of Semirhage and returning her to rand would also give cadsuane etc, a chance to learn from her, which would be useful.

[Thor]

The Kaethren (sp?) cycle has flaws.

 

There are more than one "hes" in the prophecy, but they don't make it clear.

 

"He" here refers to Mat, not Rand.

[DemandredFO]

Robert I think he sent them back to Seanchan still collared cuz he realizes that, unlike Alivia and other demane, he has no more time. I think he wants to keep the Seanchan as happy as possible cuz he NEEDS a truce to obtain their help for TG which is upon them. An collared, non-Aes Sadei, demane would take more time to break than Rand has.

 

Second, I agree with Carai'eil in that I think Rand will do what is necessary to a female forsaken based on the fact that he thinks he killed moraine cuz he would harm Lanfear.

 

Third, I agree with Thor that the Kareathon Cycles are unclear or misinterpreted. No one for example knew that the Dragon would have two cohorts, I mean maybe Ishamael and a few others knew beforehand but if so we haven't gotten a POV.

[isleofjib]

When Tuon realizes that Hawkwing follows the Dragon Reborn she will have no choice but to be bound as well. She would not fight it since she believes that the 100 companions are invincible.

 

i have to confess this never occurred to me and it makes a lot of sense to me. i really like this because of their beliefs about hawking. how can they go against him when he rides with mat and rand? cudos for coming up with this.

[El Dude]

I don't see Rand bowing to her but I don't see him getting everything he wants out of the bargain. But there is no way Rand will hand over Semi. He has LTT in his head to remind him of how dangerous she is. I mean would you hand over a woman who in the Age of Legends made her guards go crazy and help her escape just by talking to them?