Ebou Dar

[Edorion]

Uhhh, she most definitely knows, and hasn't chosen to do anything about it yet. Recall Renna & Seta were with them @ Valan Luca's circus, I don't recall which one Vanin feathered with arrows, might have been both.

[Terez]

It was Renna, who was Egwene's main sul'dam. Seta had her collar more often than anyone else aside from Renna, though.

[yoniy0]

And if she's his sister, what of it? They'd be embarrassed that he still considers her such, but for the Seanchan it makes little difference who one was prior to being collared. Tuon herself was tested, and had she failed, you can bet she wouldn't have been part of the imperial family any longer.

[Maleshub]

One of the things that could possibly draw Mat to Ebou Dar (prematurely) is if Bode is collared by the Seanchan in the second attack on the WT.

And if she's his sister, what of it? They'd be embarrassed that he still considers her such, but for the Seanchan it makes little difference who one was prior to being collared. Tuon herself was tested, and had she failed, you can bet she wouldn't have been part of the imperial family any longer.

 

I was looking at it from Mat's PoV. If his sister was collared and taken to Ebou Dar, that might push him to go there and free her.

[fionwe1987]

I was looking at it from Mat's PoV. If his sister was collared and taken to Ebou Dar, that might push him to go there and free her.

This brings up an interesting question. Is Mat, at the moment, aware that Bode is a Novice (though she's definitely Accepted, and maybe even Aes Sedai, by now)?

[yoniy0]

I was looking at it from Mat's PoV. If his sister was collared and taken to Ebou Dar, that might push him to go there and free her.

Oh, I agree. I was replying to this:

It would be so cool for them to either have Mat barge in there and say something like that's my sister and then they all either feel bad for him or treat her with respect or disdain, or if word gets out that she is Mat's sister.

 

This brings up an interesting question. Is Mat, at the moment, aware that Bode is a Novice (though she's definitely Accepted, and maybe even Aes Sedai, by now)?

He does know:

Bode was going to be Aes Sedai? Blood and bloody ashes!

[fionwe1987]

Thanks that's good to know. Wonder why this little factoid never came up in front of Tuon. Not that Tuon would be turned off that Mat's sister can channel (Imperial kids do do this, after all), but that she might anticipate more problems her husband might cause with channelers than he already has shown a tendency to.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Thanks that's good to know. Wonder why this little factoid never came up in front of Tuon. Not that Tuon would be turned off that Mat's sister can channel (Imperial kids do do this, after all), but that she might anticipate more problems her husband might cause with channelers than he already has shown a tendency to.

 

Nice points.

 

I would think that Mat would keep this a secret from Tuon, all things considered.

 

The situation would be interesting if there is a confrontation including Bode.

 

I would love to see Mat get angry, and try to set everyone straight on both sides. Like with the Sea Folk bargain, but bigger.

 

We have seen what Mat does in these situations... Joline comes to mind as the best example of this.

 

Obviously I don't think Mat is going to spank Tuon or any of the Aes Sedai in the Tower in front of everyone, but I can see him getting fed up and "laying down the law" as it were, to make a truce with the Seanchan.

[TootThatHorn]

Thanks that's good to know. Wonder why this little factoid never came up in front of Tuon. Not that Tuon would be turned off that Mat's sister can channel (Imperial kids do do this, after all), but that she might anticipate more problems her husband might cause with channelers than he already has shown a tendency to.

 

Nice points.

 

I would think that Mat would keep this a secret from Tuon, all things considered.

 

The situation would be interesting if there is a confrontation including Bode.

 

I would love to see Mat get angry, and try to set everyone straight on both sides. Like with the Sea Folk bargain, but bigger.

 

We have seen what Mat does in these situations... Joline comes to mind as the best example of this.

 

Obviously I don't think Mat is going to spank Tuon or any of the Aes Sedai in the Tower in front of everyone, but I can see him getting fed up and "laying down the law" as it were, to make a truce with the Seanchan.

 

it would be a smart thing for mat to hide probably, but given the resolutions that will hopefully happen between mat being involved with tuon and how the seanchan need to stop being all poopypants, it could be a great catalyst to get the ball rolling for said resolutions to occur and hopefully help mat change tuons mind about channelers

[b3arz3rg3r]

I think there's a reason why RJ originally planned those outrigger novels about Tuon and Mat. The Seanchan vs Aes Sedai/any free channeler struggle is one of the things that won't be resolved within the main story. The question whether Tuon ever learns to channel herself and bonds Mat and what the results of Seta's and Bethamin's quest to find a future for channelers within the empire which doesn't require them being collared will be in all likelihood won't be answered within AMOL.

[Terez]

I think there's a reason why RJ originally planned those outrigger novels about Tuon and Mat. The Seanchan vs Aes Sedai/any free channeler struggle is one of the things that won't be resolved within the main story.

 

Not bloody likely. Also:

 

Interview: Apr 22nd, 2009

 

Recap of JordanCon - Richard Fife (Verbatim)

 

Richard Fife

Soon as that was done, it was time to "work" again. I was the gopher for the Rampant Theories Panel, which had Leigh, Matt from TheoryLand, Jakob Remick of theory panels at DragonCon (ack, didn't catch which fan community he is on the most), and Bao Pham (see my description for Jakob). I commend all four on their handling of the frothing-at-the-mouth masses and keeping the discussion focused but at the same time broad. I will also note a big big big thing that was revealed by Tom Doherty, who was sitting in the crowd.

 

Tom Doherty

BIGGIE! The Seanchan will not be wrapped up by Tarmon Gai'don, and the three "outrigger" novels Robert Jordan wanted to do would be Mat and Tuon going back over to Seanchan and tying that up. And, before you ask, no one has even thought about whether or not Brandon will write those as well, along with Harriet, but in the Team Jordan Panel, it was said that they haven't ruled it out, either. Tom did say he has the contract for these novels already and intends on seeing them safely to our hands.

[b3arz3rg3r]

I think there's a reason why RJ originally planned those outrigger novels about Tuon and Mat. The Seanchan vs Aes Sedai/any free channeler struggle is one of the things that won't be resolved within the main story.

 

Not bloody likely. Also:

 

Interview: Apr 22nd, 2009

 

Recap of JordanCon - Richard Fife (Verbatim)

 

Richard Fife

Soon as that was done, it was time to "work" again. I was the gopher for the Rampant Theories Panel, which had Leigh, Matt from TheoryLand, Jakob Remick of theory panels at DragonCon (ack, didn't catch which fan community he is on the most), and Bao Pham (see my description for Jakob). I commend all four on their handling of the frothing-at-the-mouth masses and keeping the discussion focused but at the same time broad. I will also note a big big big thing that was revealed by Tom Doherty, who was sitting in the crowd.

 

Tom Doherty

BIGGIE! The Seanchan will not be wrapped up by Tarmon Gai'don, and the three "outrigger" novels Robert Jordan wanted to do would be Mat and Tuon going back over to Seanchan and tying that up. And, before you ask, no one has even thought about whether or not Brandon will write those as well, along with Harriet, but in the Team Jordan Panel, it was said that they haven't ruled it out, either. Tom did say he has the contract for these novels already and intends on seeing them safely to our hands.

 

So?

 

Just because the main plot of the novels was to be taking back Seanchan, doesn't mean that there wouldn't be other points like the one I mentioned adressed in them. Taking back Seanchan is an endeavour which will probably take years. Seanchan is three times as large as Randland and Tuon will first have to spend quite some time to fortify her rule in the conquered parts of Randland before she can leave.

 

I just don't see the Seanchan giving up the practice of damane in the few weeks AMOL will cover so the struggle between Seanchan and free channelers, but especially with Aes Sedai will continue. RJ had Mat give Seta and Bethamin that quest of finding a solution so unless that was a throwaway line chances are he wanted to pick up on that idea at some point and since like I said I don't think it'll be AMOL chances are it was to be adressed in one of the outrigger novels.

[Terez]

Like I said, not bloody likely. The Seanchan have been one of the main themes of the series since TEOTW when Hawkwing himself was developed and the location of Justice was foreshadowed, along with the 4th Age writing saying 'the great sword of justice defend us'. And then they showed up in TGH, Tuon was introduced by name, and Mat blew the Horn and met Hawkwing (not that Hawkwing paid him any mind aside from asking him to blow it again). RJ said up until a couple of years before he died that he wasn't going to write anything else in the WoT world; he only decided to write the outriggers because he had an idea for something after the Last Battle that would be interesting to write about. It took him many years to come up with such an idea.

 

Mat won't take his place beside Tuon so long as she continues to collar channelers; that's the main bone between them, though I hope he gets raven tattoos so the other types of slavery become important to him, too. We might not see all the damane uncollared before the end of the book, but we'll at least see Tuon make the concession to make the transformation when the Last Battle is done. I can see it happening because she channels, or without it, but it will happen either way.

[DemandredFO]

Remember Mat still has an appointment with a bloody knife.

With the BT, whatever happens it's not being lived in if anyone(Rand Sedai) realizes that it's SG rock. It will be like Minas Ithil/Morgul in that the it will be destroyed.

[Finnssss22]

There's also this...

 

Logain, laughing, steps over something onto a black stone. It looks like Rand's body, but when she touches his face it breaks like paper puppet.

 

In the past most have taken the black stone to have something to do with the battle near Shayol Ghul but now that it's been slipped that Taim's palace has been built with Shayol Ghul rock...

This dream also seems to imply that someone is masquerading as Rand and Logain is one of the very few people that would be able to spot a fake Rand with merely a glance.

[fikkie77]

Remember Mat still has an appointment with a bloody knife.

With the BT, whatever happens it's not being lived in if anyone(Rand Sedai) realizes that it's SG rock. It will be like Minas Ithil/Morgul in that the it will be destroyed.

Might have been forfilled when he lost his eye.

[Maleshub]

Thanks that's good to know. Wonder why this little factoid never came up in front of Tuon. Not that Tuon would be turned off that Mat's sister can channel (Imperial kids do do this, after all), but that she might anticipate more problems her husband might cause with channelers than he already has shown a tendency to.

 

That's not as important as Mat being the "Horn sounder!" And he kept that well hidden from her. What I wanted to see in KoD is a glimpse of Tuon and Mat talking about his relationship with the Dragon Reborn. They had a week together (and a few kisses) to talk about a few things. With the Dragon Reborn so high on her agenda, it would have been an interesting conversation.

 

Anyway, back to Ebou Dar: another wild speculation built up on the Bode possibility is Mat giving the Empire the Horn of Valere in exchange for her freedom and for an amnesty to Bethamin and Seta (trained as healers, not battle damane). What Mat is missing in his army are healers. He needs a few of those to make the Band more formidable.

 

With Mat surviving TG and going back to Seanchan with Tuon the Horn of Valere will be either destroyed or in Mat's possession (assuming that he uses it in TG). And I think the Horn will make the Seanchan give up on a few of their minor laws. They would have Artur Hawkwing himself fighting with their armies. I can just imagine Fortuona seeing him for the first time!

[Barid Bel Medar]

There's also this...

 

Logain, laughing, steps over something onto a black stone. It looks like Rand's body, but when she touches his face it breaks like paper puppet.

 

In the past most have taken the black stone to have something to do with the battle near Shayol Ghul but now that it's been slipped that Taim's palace has been built with Shayol Ghul rock...

This dream also seems to imply that someone is masquerading as Rand and Logain is one of the very few people that would be able to spot a fake Rand with merely a glance.

 

I have always maintained that this was a dream of Logain's glory disposing of Taim. THe Black Rock being the Black Tower, now made even more plausible by the SG stone here, and Taim DID proclaim himself Dragon Reborn. He wears the blue Dragons on his coat, and remembering the Black Ajah "plot" in tDR about using Taim to do crazy stuff in the name of the Dragon Reborn.

[Terez]

There's also this...

 

Logain, laughing, steps over something onto a black stone. It looks like Rand's body, but when she touches his face it breaks like paper puppet.

 

In the past most have taken the black stone to have something to do with the battle near Shayol Ghul but now that it's been slipped that Taim's palace has been built with Shayol Ghul rock...

 

Why do you think I asked that question? I've been saying for years (to much agreement) that it was Taim's podium for making addresses. It's a symbol of the office of M'Hael, and it's still on display at the palace. But the palace itself is built from white marble.

[Finnssss22]

There's also this...

 

Logain, laughing, steps over something onto a black stone. It looks like Rand's body, but when she touches his face it breaks like paper puppet.

 

In the past most have taken the black stone to have something to do with the battle near Shayol Ghul but now that it's been slipped that Taim's palace has been built with Shayol Ghul rock...

 

Why do you think I asked that question? I've been saying for years (to much agreement) that it was Taim's podium for making addresses. It's a symbol of the office of M'Hael, and it's still on display at the palace. But the palace itself is built from white marble.

 

 

On white marble you mean but yeah.

Either way, I understand the notion of Logain defeating Taim and taking his office is not new. I was more making reference to the last part of that dream and what I have been saying for years. That someone impersonating Rand around Logain, aint gonna work out too well for the impersonator.

[Terez]

That one is Gonzo's pet theory, going back to Joiya's supposedly untruthful testimony. Sort of. But yeah, I like the idea of someone impersonating Rand at the Black Tower (Taim or Moridin or Demandred presumably). I also like the idea of Dark Rand, and think it fits with a number of prophecies about the endgame. Technically we could get both.

[TristanWebb]

I don't think it has to be someone impersonating Rand, it could easily be Taim pretending to be acting with Rand's authority. The puppet is the same as the pretend chief the aiel children make so they can push the spears.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I don't think it has to be someone impersonating Rand, it could easily be Taim pretending to be acting with Rand's authority. The puppet is the same as the pretend chief the aiel children make so they can push the spears.

 

That was my thought aswell. That Taim is acting on Rand's behalf as "M'hael". however, an actual impersonation is just as likely, from Taim, Moridin or Demandred (each seem the most likely to do so)

[Finnssss22]

While I agree it doesn't actually have to be someone impersonating Rand, Logain's ability to see Ta'veren would be invaluable in such an instance.

That at least makes it a possible event.

[DrZippy]

2. Min's viewing of two dead men surrounded by ranks and ranks of Trollocs, in conjunction with a viewing of a smoking pipe. This is widely believed to indicate Talmanes on both counts (his pipe theoretically has a tracer weave set on it by Demandred), though it would have to have something to do with Rand, since she saw it around Rand.

Terez, could you or anyone else provide a link to where this viewing of Min's is discussed? Also, when would Demandred have had the chance to tag Talmanes?

 

When I first saw this viewing, I thought it meant Rand and Moridin, surrounded by Fain's Trollocs. I interpreted the smoking pipe as a "happily ever after" type ending; the LB over, Rand finally enjoying a pipe of tabac again. I'd like to see what evidence people have for the quoted interpretation, though.