Can Fains Dagger harm Mat??

[dicetosser1]

Ive been discussing this with my brother and im thinking that Mat might not be susceptible to it due to his carrying it.

 

Not a very fleshed out idea but i was wondering what people think?

[Vardar]

It's an interesting way for Fain to die. He attacks Mat up close, cuts him, waits for him to die. Mat says something flashy like, I've already won that battle, BAM slices Fain's head off.

[mlva103]

Well Fain cuts himself with it all the time so maybe.

[Roxinos]

There is no bond between the dagger and Mat. That was broken. There's no evidence to suggest he would be immune to the dagger's influence now. So it's safe to say, until further evidence is presented, that Mat would die just like anyone else.

[bbarrett90]

I always considered the bond to be "muted" so to speak, not broken. Maybe I'm just thinking of what Moiraine did to it though, and not what the circle of 13 did to it.

[Roxinos]

I always considered the bond to be "muted" so to speak, not broken. Maybe I'm just thinking of what Moiraine did to it though, and not what the circle of 13 did to it.

 

You most likely are. There's no reason to believe that the circle of 13 failed in their task. I would imagine we'd have evidence of that somehow, and we simply don't. Not to mention that while it's possible that the Aes Sedai failed, it's unlikely that they would think they completed their task had they failed.

[rand4747]

Fain is unique because he is mordeth to, the dagger they said will have killed Matt he wont have become like Fain.

[bobarose]

he probally is immune to the influence.but the daggar is still a daggar and can kill like most knives as well.matt isnt immune to death .

[Maleshub]

I wonder if the total destruction of Shadar Logoth has any bearing on the dagger.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I wonder if the total destruction of Shadar Logoth has any bearing on the dagger.

 

 

INTERVIEW: Jan 25th, 2005

TOR Questions of the Week Part II (Verbatim)

 

WEEK 10 QUESTION

Now that Shadar Logoth is gone, (cool way to get rid of it by the way), has the evil power in Padan Fain/Mordeth/the Ruby Dagger decreased any? Has it driven him even more insane? Or since the next book is called Knife of Dreams, will all these questions be answered in it?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

The evil power in Padan Fain has neither decreased nor increased, nor has that in the dagger.

 

 

 

As for the OP, I would say that Mat would be vulnerable to the dagger. The only thing that I can see happening in the way of immunity is it doesn't kill him like it does others, just makes him sick.

[rand4747]

Mat isn't possessed by mordeth so he will succumb to it like everyone else. Mordeth possessing Padan Fain is what gave him the powers, he didn't need the dagger to get them. You can see even without possession of the dagger earlier on he was developing them. (Before he stole it back from the white tower) He did have it for a short while back in the great hunt but not long and nowhere near as long as mat had had it. The dagger after he regained it certainly allowed him to do more but he is the same evil as the dagger not a ordinary human, thats how he can use it. The dagger is infected with the same evil that made mordeth.

 

Also as the aes sedai said when Matt had the dagger he was so close to death and only their interfering saved his life. Its corruption was killing him. Without that initial bit of healing he would have died alot earlier than the white tower and corrupted those around him too. Fain does it on a much larger scale, the Children of the Light, Elaida, Toram Riatin, the Guards in Fal Dara. (This was before he even had the dagger the first time)

[FarShainMael]

There is no bond between the dagger and Mat. That was broken. There's no evidence to suggest he would be immune to the dagger's influence now. So it's safe to say, until further evidence is presented, that Mat would die just like anyone else.

 

Acxtually, no it wasn't entirely broken. We see this from Mat as he approaches Hinderstap:

 

Mat hadn't felt the pull of the ruby dagger in a very long time. He was nearly beginning to forget what it had been like to be tied to it, if it was possible to forget such a thing. But sometimes he remembered that ruby, red like his own blood. And the old lust, the old desire, would seep into him again...

 

I think that Mat could certainly sense the dagger is he was in its vicinity (which may lead to a battle between him and Fain). But whether he's immune to being cut by it, I don't know.

[Vardar]

There is no bond between the dagger and Mat. That was broken. There's no evidence to suggest he would be immune to the dagger's influence now. So it's safe to say, until further evidence is presented, that Mat would die just like anyone else.

 

Acxtually, no it wasn't entirely broken. We see this from Mat as he approaches Hinderstap:

 

Mat hadn't felt the pull of the ruby dagger in a very long time. He was nearly beginning to forget what it had been like to be tied to it, if it was possible to forget such a thing. But sometimes he remembered that ruby, red like his own blood. And the old lust, the old desire, would seep into him again...

 

I think that Mat could certainly sense the dagger is he was in its vicinity (which may lead to a battle between him and Fain). But whether he's immune to being cut by it, I don't know.

 

Damn beat me too it. There was a white tower scene too where he felt the urge but ignored it.

[EmperorMayhem]

Another thing to consider is Matt's luck, and the whole debate on where it comes from- is his luck from the Dark One? how much power over his life does it hold? Would the Dark One's own luck be powerful enough to counter Mordeth's power? or the power of the dagger?

[Roxinos]

There is no bond between the dagger and Mat. That was broken. There's no evidence to suggest he would be immune to the dagger's influence now. So it's safe to say, until further evidence is presented, that Mat would die just like anyone else.

 

Acxtually, no it wasn't entirely broken. We see this from Mat as he approaches Hinderstap:

 

Mat hadn't felt the pull of the ruby dagger in a very long time. He was nearly beginning to forget what it had been like to be tied to it, if it was possible to forget such a thing. But sometimes he remembered that ruby, red like his own blood. And the old lust, the old desire, would seep into him again...

 

I think that Mat could certainly sense the dagger is he was in its vicinity (which may lead to a battle between him and Fain). But whether he's immune to being cut by it, I don't know.

 

There's a very distinct difference between feeling an old urge and feeling the pull from the dagger in the supernatural sense.

 

It's the difference between a heroin addict and Mat pre-Healing.

[rand4747]

It is hard to tell whether it has any effect on him still, since he has memories of it still (partially) when he thinks of it he still feels a weak urge. I don't know if his luck was to do with the dagger that or it just happened around the same time he was healed. It could possibly be one of those side effects they said might happen but I think its more that's his "Taverin power" The other two have the luck too but not to his extent, Why the forsaken are rather reluctant to take them out themselves.

[bbarrett90]

It could possibly be one of those side effects they said might happen but I think its more that's his "Taverin power" The other two have the luck too but not to his extent, Why the forsaken are rather reluctant to take them out themselves.

 

I think if Rand were to dice, he would win every time too if that was what he desired. The only reason it seems like Mat has more luck than the other two is because he's always playing at chance. I don't think we've ever seen Rand or Perrin engage in any such activity, therefore it's not as evident.

[Suttree]

I think if Rand were to dice, he would win every time too if that was what he desired.

 

That isn't how it works...

 

It is hard to tell whether it has any effect on him still, since he has memories of it still (partially) when he thinks of it he still feels a weak urge. I don't know if his luck was to do with the dagger that or it just happened around the same time he was healed. It could possibly be one of those side effects they said might happen but I think its more that's his "Taverin power"

 

Not sure if it ever is explained. We do have this though...

 

Interview: Sep 3rd, 2005

 

DragonCon Report - Isabel (Verbatim)

Question

In The Dragon Reborn, Lanfear visits Mat as he is recuperating from his One Power surgery over the dagger. At one point she stretches out her hand towards him and he feels a tingle going over him, somebody interrupts them, and she turns her head and sobs, at about the same time a member of Black Ajah stole angreal and ter'angreal out of the Tower cache, one of which was a ter'angreal that was known to have some effect on chance. So it was about this time that Mat's really really really weird luck and the dice rolling in his head began, is this a connection or coincidence?

 

Robert Jordan

That is a coincidence. When they say that Mat has the Dark One's own luck, he can get as mad as he wants to, but in a way it is true. It wasn't a gift from Lanfear, though.

[bobarose]

if rand and matt have time to toss dice together so effing what! matt is not that important to the story he was really just filler for rand and perrins side of this epic.

[kght22]

fain's dagger scratch mat, mat turns black and dies like the first person mat cut with it. mordeth doesn't get hurt by that dagger, and actualy loves to be cut by it, because he is as much the dagger as the dagger is him. ordieth is fully corrupted, padan fain doesnt exist anymore.

[kght22]

if rand and matt have time to toss dice together so effing what! matt is not that important to the story he was really just filler for rand and perrins side of this epic.

lol from the start it was a three legged chair. 2 legs only work when someone is sitting on it. just saying they all have their place.