Destroying Cuendillar

[Edynol]

Okay I surfing the interview database and came across this.

Brandon Sanderson

The True Power works by destroying the Pattern. Everything that is done with it involves damage to the Pattern. For example, when we see Ishamael Travel, he does so by poking a hole in the Pattern. Cuendillar can be destroyed using the True Power. There is another way to destroy cuendillar, too.

So we know Cuendillar can be destroyed, and one way is by using the TP. But what is the other way? I'm think it has to do with undoing the weave that makes it. Since weaves can be potentially unweaved, it makes sense that when you create cuendillar that it's just a permanent weave that, with a lot of prodding and concentration, can be picked apart.

 

Now in my opinion, I don't think this is the way, seems to simple. I mean, I know figuring it out and doing so would be very difficult, but I still think it shoulod be more difficult than just picking the weave apart. And of course balefiring someone who made it could possibly undo it, but that wouldn't really be destroying as it would be making it having not ever existed. I can honestly think of nothing atm other than what I already mentioned. Do yall have any ideas on this?

[spoke]

I posted a theory on this a long while ago. I basically stated that the taint on Saidin also made Cuendillar break. Proof of this was in that the seals were weakening, because they were made with tainted Saidin. The biggest loophole in this theory, is the argument of what is the taint. If the taint is something else, it works, but if the taint is just the True Power, then the whole theory falls apart and we are left with asking what is the other way.

[Edynol]

Well RJ said the taint and the TP were not the same thing. So we do have that.

[Ferdawoon]

We know that adding force to Cuendillar just make it stronger. I just got the idea that we know that even Balefire can be stopped by Cuendillar.

So, if you find a way to simply remove the force added into it, you can destroy it.

[Luckers]

My theory is, and has been for some time, that it is possible to reverse the process. The fact that they speak of the use of the One Power on cuendillar as strengthening it is particularily telling--how do you strengthen something indestructible?

 

The obvious answer would be that there were someway to reverse the process of changing iron into cuendillar, and that exposure to the One Power makes this more difficult. Alternatively it could involve changing cuendillar into something else entirely--but something which is then destructable.

[Edynol]

I thought about all those ways as well, lol. Except the taking away of force. All of them seem like good ideas that could work. :)

 

I also have another idea. What about things that repel the OP? Like Mat's medallion or a stedding? What would happen if you took a rod made from cuendillar inside a stedding and banged on it with a rock? Would it shatter then?

[Gabriel Kross]

no because things made with power dont lose that traight in a stedding, otherwise heron marked swoeds wouldn't be all that great

[Gabriel Kross]

however the medallion idea is possible (oh sidetracking Thom's knives: similar to Mat's medallion?)

[Barid Bel Medar]

I have this image of Perrin-Gimli breaking his shiny new hammer trying to break a seal at Rivendell.

 

 

I posted a theory on this a long while ago. I basically stated that the taint on Saidin also made Cuendillar break. Proof of this was in that the seals were weakening, because they were made with tainted Saidin. The biggest loophole in this theory, is the argument of what is the taint. If the taint is something else, it works, but if the taint is just the True Power, then the whole theory falls apart and we are left with asking what is the other way.

 

This is possible, I am thinking, although was the taint really related to the seals? I thought this was just the DO slowly corroding the seals.

 

The taint is not exactly the TP, but it is in a way, I will let you determine if this debunks the theory or not.

 

 

INTERVIEW: Mar, 2000

Letter to Paul Ward (Verbatim)

 

ROBERT JORDAN

The taint and the True Power are both manifestations of the Dark One—they are the same substance, but those who access it are not destroyed in the same way.

 

 

 

I like the reverse cuendillar making, it make sense. I never thought the part about the OP making it stronger made any sense though. It is supposed to be indestructable, how can it get any stronger than that? How would you know if it got stronger? But that is not really important.

 

Another possibility is Mashadar. If I use the above quote, that the TP and taint are the same substance, and that Mashadar/taint destroyed each other, seems like it is possible that Mashadar can also destroy cuendillar.

[Edynol]

But then again, we haven't seen much fighting in a stedding. Not any, that I can remember. Not saying it would become that way forever, just while inside the stedding it would be.

[Edynol]

I like the reverse cuendillar making, it make sense. I never thought the part about the OP making it stronger made any sense though. It is supposed to be indestructable, how can it get any stronger than that? How would you know if it got stronger? But that is not really important.

 

Another possibility is Mashadar. If I use the above quote, that the TP and taint are the same substance, and that Mashadar/taint destroyed each other, seems like it is possible that Mashadar can also destroy cuendillar.

Possible, but I don't think so. Mashadar is like the taint, but remember it is also anti taint. I see the taint as anti-pattern, like the TP is. Mashadar is not anti pattern. And also, it is an actually, living thing, sorta. It can kill physically rip things from limb to limb like Machin'sin. The taint isn't a living thing, its like a poison or acid or some type of bacteria. I dunno, I can't really explain it, but they in fundamentally different in this regard. I mean, it is possible, I just don't think it is.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Yeah, I didn't really think so to any great degree, just throwing out possibilities.

 

The, by the RJ quote, is a manifestation of the DO, like the TP, so you are actually most likely right in saying Mashadar would not destroy cuendillar, since it is the polar opposite of the Taint.

 

It is, however, one of the unknown and powerful forces, so i guessed it was worth a mention

[Manscher]

Might be something even simpler, lava, Slayer was obviously rather scared of Perrin finding out that the dreamspike could be destroyed by lava, and while it was never said to be cuendillar, it sure as hell was strong and rather indestructible. And then there's also the reference to lotr, the one ring and mount doom

[Edynol]

Actually, I don't remember it saying the dreamspike was destroyed. I think Perrin through it in the lava so Slayer couldn't get to it without killing himself.

[yoniy0]

It was definitely destroyed. When the nightmare ended, a broken shell remained behind.

[jsbrads]

terangreal are not easily destroyed, but they are not inherently indestructable. both access keys are now destroyed and both saangreal are gone too.

True power should be no more effective than one power. any force used against it strengthens it, the key must be to not try to destroy it, the seals failed not because of the taint, there was no taint when they were manufactured, it was because of the contact between them and DO.

analogy: kevlar vest won't be penetrated by bullets, but let a fine sand filter in and it would corrupt the material weakening the fibers so that over time the vest will fail

[kght22]

terangreal are not easily destroyed, but they are not inherently indestructable. both access keys are now destroyed and both saangreal are gone too.

True power should be no more effective than one power. any force used against it strengthens it, the key must be to not try to destroy it, the seals failed not because of the taint, there was no taint when they were manufactured, it was because of the contact between them and DO.

analogy: kevlar vest won't be penetrated by bullets, but let a fine sand filter in and it would corrupt the material weakening the fibers so that over time the vest will fail

where do you get the idea that terangreal are not easily destroyed. i bet many of them could be destroyed by picking them up and throwing them against a wall, let along lighting off a fireball on one. do you think it is just for poops and smiles that the oath rod is normaly stored in padding? maybe it has never been damaged but i bet they do that because they know that they can be damaged if even dropped, even if that particular ter'angreal can't be, they dont want to find out.

[Edynol]

terangreal are not easily destroyed, but they are not inherently indestructable. both access keys are now destroyed and both saangreal are gone too.

True power should be no more effective than one power. any force used against it strengthens it, the key must be to not try to destroy it, the seals failed not because of the taint, there was no taint when they were manufactured, it was because of the contact between them and DO.

analogy: kevlar vest won't be penetrated by bullets, but let a fine sand filter in and it would corrupt the material weakening the fibers so that over time the vest will fail

Has nothing to do with rather something is an angreal or not. It what it's made out of. Not all angreal are made from cuendillar. Those that aren't can be destroyed easily. And there are things like bowls and plates made from cuendillar that aren't angreal at all. Also, the TP is different from the OP. TP works by destroying the pattern, which is why it can destroy cuendillar. The TP is the DO's essence, which is different from the taint. And it's the TP that is destroying the seals.

[Luckers]

terangreal are not easily destroyed, but they are not inherently indestructable. both access keys are now destroyed and both saangreal are gone too.

True power should be no more effective than one power. any force used against it strengthens it, the key must be to not try to destroy it, the seals failed not because of the taint, there was no taint when they were manufactured, it was because of the contact between them and DO.

analogy: kevlar vest won't be penetrated by bullets, but let a fine sand filter in and it would corrupt the material weakening the fibers so that over time the vest will fail

where do you get the idea that terangreal are not easily destroyed. i bet many of them could be destroyed by picking them up and throwing them against a wall, let along lighting off a fireball on one. do you think it is just for poops and smiles that the oath rod is normaly stored in padding? maybe it has never been damaged but i bet they do that because they know that they can be damaged if even dropped, even if that particular ter'angreal can't be, they dont want to find out.

 

It's stated multiple times throughout the series. Ter'angreal are very hard to destroy, even ones that appear as if they should be fragile. That being said they are not completely indestructible, like cuendillar [is supposed to be].

[Elvira_Sedai]

I think the answer is very simple . I mean , the Cuendillar is just a form of iron , not a gold or platinum etc. , so it can be oxigenized using an acid . I have remember no mention of acids and their using knowledge in 3rd Age WoT World , so it's can be correct to suggest that this way isn't known .

[Luckers]

I think the answer is very simple . I mean , the Cuendillar is just a form of iron , not a gold or platinum etc. , so it can be oxigenized using an acid . I have remember no mention of acids and their using knowledge in 3rd Age WoT World , so it's can be correct to suggest that this way isn't known .

 

We actually don't know that cuendillar is iron anymore, as we don't know what the process of making cuendillar entails. It could completely defy our understanding of chemistry--for instance have you considered the possibility that the process adds or takes away protons?

[Elvira_Sedai]

I think the answer is very simple . I mean , the Cuendillar is just a form of iron , not a gold or platinum etc. , so it can be oxigenized using an acid . I have remember no mention of acids and their using knowledge in 3rd Age WoT World , so it's can be correct to suggest that this way isn't known .

 

We actually don't know that cuendillar is iron anymore, as we don't know what the process of making cuendillar entails. It could completely defy our understanding of chemistry--for instance have you considered the possibility that the process adds or takes away protons?

 

I'm base my opinion on this :

Interview: Jan 27th, 2003

 

COT Signing Report - Rйal Heppelle (Paraphrased)

Rйal Heppelle

 

I asked him why Egwene would want to change an iron chain into cuendillar (making sure that I pronounced it correctly CWAINDEEYAR :) I thought he would send me packing if I made a pronounciation mistake). I understood that the chain prevented enemy boats from entering Tar Valon, but I wasn't sure why she would want to make it indestructible.

Robert Jordan

 

He responded that iron doesn't TURN into cuendillar, iron is the base of cuendillar. He said that the links of the chain fuse together and become a solid piece. Thus making the chain impossible to raise, lower, or remove. This prevents boats from entering AND leaving Tar Valon. It then became obvious that this was a way for Egwene to successfully siege the island without using the One Power on anyone (as Lord Gareth wanted). I don't know why I didn't realize this on my own, but thought others might want the additional insight.

 

So , it isn't like a stainless stell to iron , it's still a pure iron and it would be pretty logical that some qualities of material are keeping . For the matter of what particulary acid-like liquid seen in WoT could destroy C. , I would bet on Darkhound saliva .

[Luckers]

Actually, if iron is the base of cuendillar, its fairly clear that cuendillar is not pure iron. You add to a base, after all. Furthermore, that quote only serves to show that the process of making cuendillar is not a standard chemical process as we understand it. Attributing the traits and weaknesses of iron to cuendillar does not thus seem to me to follow logically--certainly, on traits such as melting points and density it shows no similarities.

 

 

[Barid Bel Medar]

Hmmm, it would be interesting to see a Cuendillar v Cuendillar battle. Can Cuendillar break itself? Not entirely serious, but i suppose it could be something.

[Sharaman]

From first principles and given the description of the process, the OP is used to change the crystalline structure of iron. There may be some chemical method to reset that structure again. Or there may be an OP weave.