[Basic] Shifters vs Hunters - Game Over! Congrats Mafia!

[Nolder]

first I'd like to point out the people who cast initial suspicion have been lying low ever since

I'm not sure if you consider me as one of those who "cast initial suspicion" on you but if you do I assure you I'm still around

I've just not seen anything worth commenting on until now and I'm busy cleaning my room

 

Yes Ishy has had a bit of activity but Key initial tried to force me into a no win situation with her so your gonna vote ishy but not take any credit if he flips town which I didn't bite, I had accepted my lynch before ever commiting to an even joke vote on Ishy for the hoof thing I was almost forcing people to vote me,

so if you're to be believed you're a townie right?

and you claim to have all but forced town into lynching a townie?

forgive me but I don't see the benefit here

you assume the mafia on your lynch will be obvious somehow? who's to say they'll even join it now that you've explained your ingenious plot?

no need to answer, it was a rhetorical question and besides the point really

which is that if this sort of thing actually worked you'd see it much more often

the fact is that traps of this nature so early in the game generally do nothing more than confuse people

if you're telling the truth hopefully you don't try this again

 

Here Nolder is using EP's words in a different way to achieve his own goals. "I was almost forcing people to vote me" and "All but forced town into lynching a townie" DOES NOT HAVE THE SAME MEANING. EP had hoped to snagg some scum with his tactic, but Nolder turns it into EP forcing ONLY TOWN, to lynch a townie. Let me ask you Nolder, how often do you think a lynch happens with absolutley NO mafia on the train? What is more logical to assume, There will be atleast one scum on the train, or there will be NONE? Think carefully about how you answer that question Nolder. The funny part is, you admit EP has made a trap to snag scum with, and you said it is a poor one aswell, but you still claim he is scummy? How does that work?

Here Nolder is using EP's words in a different way to achieve his own goals. "I was almost forcing people to vote me" and "All but forced town into lynching a townie" DOES NOT HAVE THE SAME MEANING.

IT DOES IF HE'S CLAIMING TO BE A TOWNIE

If he claims to be a townie and he's forcing people to vote him he's forcing us to lynch a townie

you can argue he didn't intend to be lynched but that's like saying someone who drenches themselves with fish guts and jumps into a shark tank didn't intend to get ripped apart

I'm sorry but trusting the mob (some of which are mafia) NOT to kill you when you're acting strange is asking too much on most occasions and was a stupid move IMO

 

EP had hoped to snagg some scum with his tactic, but Nolder turns it into EP forcing ONLY TOWN, to lynch a townie.

Yeah man

We sure snagged those scum right?

Maybe you know which mafia if any were on EP when he was lynched but I sure don't

 

Let me ask you Nolder, how often do you think a lynch happens with absolutley NO mafia on the train?

It happens more often when you're playing with very good players

But I couldn't begin to suppose how often it happens in general

Also like I said to EP, once he stated his plan how effective do you think it will be?

It's just a big pile of WIFOM now and if you can tell who the mafia are from that whole fiasco then kudos to you

 

What is more logical to assume, There will be atleast one scum on the train, or there will be NONE?

They're both as likely

it's also equally likely there will be more than one mafia

 

 

The funny part is, you admit EP has made a trap to snag scum with, and you said it is a poor one aswell, but you still claim he is scummy? How does that work?

Because he could be lying obviously

 

the only reason Ive so adamantly revealed that I'm a vanilla towny is so you can read peoples responses and judge who to use finder on based on that

you're taking it as a given that we have a cop

it's just as likely we have a tracker or a couple masons instead

 

aside from that your reveal hurts the town

if you really are town now the mafia know you're not a power role and if they're clever will probably try to shift focus away from you and onto another townie, possibly the cop you seem so sure is in the game

on the off chance you're not lynched it also means they'll have less townies to choose between to find power roles when nightkilling

 

the fact is nothing you've done helps the town in any way

 

Is it so terrible to think we have a cop? I don't think so, I believe it's a valid theory. Then you write "your reveal hurts the town". Why should scum believe his word for it? It might just be som WIFOM? I mean, if everyone had believed your statement, this game would not go on, now would it? I find it interesting you're reasoning his claim this way, Nolder.

 

One more thing about this Nolder. You claim that the mafia would just ignore him now that "they know" he doesn't have a power role, and that they'll have a easier time picking a power role to NK. But, because this is an basic game I'm going to assume we have some kind of healer (Doctor), doesn't it make the doctor's job of saving a power role's life easier aswell?

 

Is it so terrible to think we have a cop? I don't think so, I believe it's a valid theory.

I do

People are far too reliant on cops and expect them in every game

The first time I ran a basic game I did not include a cop for this very reason

 

There's no reason to expect any role until someone claims it or odd things happen (an extra kill for example)

 

 

Then you write "your reveal hurts the town". Why should scum believe his word for it? It might just be som WIFOM? I mean, if everyone had believed your statement, this game would not go on, now would it? I find it interesting you're reasoning his claim this way, Nolder.

Why shouldn't they? He's not a member of the mafia and has less reason to lie. And they don't have to believe him if they just get him lynched anyway.

I don't understand what you mean about if everyone believed me the game wouldn't go on.

 

One more thing about this Nolder. You claim that the mafia would just ignore him now that "they know" he doesn't have a power role, and that they'll have a easier time picking a power role to NK. But, because this is an basic game I'm going to assume we have some kind of healer (Doctor), doesn't it make the doctor's job of saving a power role's life easier aswell?

No

The doctor will still potentially "save" the mafia

 

Just catching up on my lunch break sir.

 

You've really put yourself in a pickle haven't you? Tbh, I think you're telling the truth when you say you're vanilla. But you spun events to a point where you're the only viable choice today. Have no one to blame but yourself, I never made a case against you, only defended against the weak one you made against me. You made your own case on yourself single-handedly.

 

I do suppose, however, that if you wanted to try a new playstyle, doing it as vanilla in a basic game is the best time to do it, but you have to expect the consequences when it backfires. It's all on you at this point.

 

And no, I won't be hammering right now. Not going to allow you to dictate my game when you decide to switch up your game and get yourself lynched.

EP if you're really town why don't you help us out before you die

who do you think is mafia right now and how sure are you?

 

Nolder sticks up for Ishy again.

And the question you asked EP. You knew that EP wouldn't say that either you or Ishy were scum, because then you would disregard what he wrote and "punish" him for casting anymore doubt on you two.

Wat

My post has nothing to do with Ishy's and what you said is entirely wrong

 

Well, another time, I'd say that was a scummy hammer Arez, but I think everyone gave EP plenty of time to sit at L-1 and plead his case. I actually thought he made a few good points, especially when he cast his FoS at Razen. We'll see how this turns out shortly I suppose.

 

Ishy has been against EP the whole time, being very stealthy about it. Then all of a sudden, when he gets hammered (By me), EP has made "A few good points". Suddenly, the heat is of both Ishy and Nol. Interesting.

I didn't realize I ever had "heat" on me until now

 

Vote: Blackhoof

do you think a reason beyond admittedly lurking is required?

 

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. That is the worst reason I've found for voting someone. It's a scummy move made when you can't build a case against anyone. You can claim ANYONE is lurking. Infact, I'll do it right now to prove it. Nolder, You've been lying very low between your posts, only making one or two before disappearing. WOW, THAT WAS HARD AND VERY CONVINCING.

I asked if more was required

if you thought so why didn't you speak up?

 

Hoof is pushing this lynch way too hard imo

he's eager to get to night and setting up on me for tomorrows lynch

 

Since when did you have any propper heat on you Nolder? Could you refer to some posts showing how you were attacked and voted, accused of being scum?

No, neither can I, until now.

 

I have made my case and I will take proper action towards it when this night is over, I have something special prepaired..

I don't understand what that quote has to do with what you said but hey I agree with you

No one has been on my case until now

Hoof set me up as a potential lynch for tomorrow but that's not heat so much heat as it is stacking lynches

[John E. Kelley]

Nol but if you think about it wouldn't it bring just as much if not more suspicion on Ishy for his response?

It's interesting that you would connect them like that

 

Here the subtle defending of Ishy begins.

 

Dude, let it go. Have you not ever played in a game with Hoof before? This is the most cliched aspect of DM Mafia right here. You're in a game with Hoof, you make fun of his Day One foibles. It's his modus operandi. Hoof doesn't ever make it past the first day. We crack on him for it. Every time, every game. You're starting to look scummy by pushing this as hard as you are.

 

Unvote.

>implying Ishy isn't also Town

>implying you don't have a power role

>Vote: EP

 

Here Ishy has been attacked and Nolder defends Ishy instead of letting Ishy do it himself, why?

Last time I checked, implying that you don't have a power role is not a crime? Does it mean all vanilla townie's should get lynched?

 

>implying Ishy isn't also Town

>implying you don't have a power role

>Vote: EP

oh there is no implying I have no role I'm vanilla townie lol :P

I seriously doubt that

 

Here EP clarifies that he doesn't have a power role, yett Nolder easily dismisses it, based on what I ask?

I couldn't get the quote after this to insert, but Ishy wrote that he was "Starting to doubt it to". So Ishy hasn't actually voted EP, he's letting Nolder do all the defending and Attacking. Interesting, won't you say?

 

first I'd like to point out the people who cast initial suspicion have been lying low ever since

I'm not sure if you consider me as one of those who "cast initial suspicion" on you but if you do I assure you I'm still around

I've just not seen anything worth commenting on until now and I'm busy cleaning my room

 

Yes Ishy has had a bit of activity but Key initial tried to force me into a no win situation with her so your gonna vote ishy but not take any credit if he flips town which I didn't bite, I had accepted my lynch before ever commiting to an even joke vote on Ishy for the hoof thing I was almost forcing people to vote me,

so if you're to be believed you're a townie right?

and you claim to have all but forced town into lynching a townie?

forgive me but I don't see the benefit here

you assume the mafia on your lynch will be obvious somehow? who's to say they'll even join it now that you've explained your ingenious plot?

no need to answer, it was a rhetorical question and besides the point really

which is that if this sort of thing actually worked you'd see it much more often

the fact is that traps of this nature so early in the game generally do nothing more than confuse people

if you're telling the truth hopefully you don't try this again

 

Here Nolder is using EP's words in a different way to achieve his own goals. "I was almost forcing people to vote me" and "All but forced town into lynching a townie" DOES NOT HAVE THE SAME MEANING. EP had hoped to snagg some scum with his tactic, but Nolder turns it into EP forcing ONLY TOWN, to lynch a townie. Let me ask you Nolder, how often do you think a lynch happens with absolutley NO mafia on the train? What is more logical to assume, There will be atleast one scum on the train, or there will be NONE? Think carefully about how you answer that question Nolder. The funny part is, you admit EP has made a trap to snag scum with, and you said it is a poor one aswell, but you still claim he is scummy? How does that work?

 

the only reason Ive so adamantly revealed that I'm a vanilla towny is so you can read peoples responses and judge who to use finder on based on that

you're taking it as a given that we have a cop

it's just as likely we have a tracker or a couple masons instead

 

aside from that your reveal hurts the town

if you really are town now the mafia know you're not a power role and if they're clever will probably try to shift focus away from you and onto another townie, possibly the cop you seem so sure is in the game

on the off chance you're not lynched it also means they'll have less townies to choose between to find power roles when nightkilling

 

the fact is nothing you've done helps the town in any way

 

Is it so terrible to think we have a cop? I don't think so, I believe it's a valid theory. Then you write "your reveal hurts the town". Why should scum believe his word for it? It might just be som WIFOM? I mean, if everyone had believed your statement, this game would not go on, now would it? I find it interesting you're reasoning his claim this way, Nolder.

 

One more thing about this Nolder. You claim that the mafia would just ignore him now that "they know" he doesn't have a power role, and that they'll have a easier time picking a power role to NK. But, because this is an basic game I'm going to assume we have some kind of healer (Doctor), doesn't it make the doctor's job of saving a power role's life easier aswell?

Just catching up on my lunch break sir.

 

You've really put yourself in a pickle haven't you? Tbh, I think you're telling the truth when you say you're vanilla. But you spun events to a point where you're the only viable choice today. Have no one to blame but yourself, I never made a case against you, only defended against the weak one you made against me. You made your own case on yourself single-handedly.

 

I do suppose, however, that if you wanted to try a new playstyle, doing it as vanilla in a basic game is the best time to do it, but you have to expect the consequences when it backfires. It's all on you at this point.

 

And no, I won't be hammering right now. Not going to allow you to dictate my game when you decide to switch up your game and get yourself lynched.

EP if you're really town why don't you help us out before you die

who do you think is mafia right now and how sure are you?

 

Nolder sticks up for Ishy again.

And the question you asked EP. You knew that EP wouldn't say that either you or Ishy were scum, because then you would disregard what he wrote and "punish" him for casting anymore doubt on you two.

 

Well, another time, I'd say that was a scummy hammer Arez, but I think everyone gave EP plenty of time to sit at L-1 and plead his case. I actually thought he made a few good points, especially when he cast his FoS at Razen. We'll see how this turns out shortly I suppose.

 

Ishy has been against EP the whole time, being very stealthy about it. Then all of a sudden, when he gets hammered (By me), EP has made "A few good points". Suddenly, the heat is of both Ishy and Nol. Interesting.

 

Vote: Blackhoof

do you think a reason beyond admittedly lurking is required?

 

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. That is the worst reason I've found for voting someone. It's a scummy move made when you can't build a case against anyone. You can claim ANYONE is lurking. Infact, I'll do it right now to prove it. Nolder, You've been lying very low between your posts, only making one or two before disappearing. WOW, THAT WAS HARD AND VERY CONVINCING.

 

Hoof is pushing this lynch way too hard imo

he's eager to get to night and setting up on me for tomorrows lynch

 

Since when did you have any propper heat on you Nolder? Could you refer to some posts showing how you were attacked and voted, accused of being scum?

No, neither can I, until now.

 

I have made my case and I will take proper action towards it when this night is over, I have something special prepaired..

 

tl;dr

[Arez Al'Loke]

I have no clue what Tl;dr means Ishy..

 

Btw, I'm working on clearing up/answering Nolders replies

[keyholder21]

Too Long, Didn't Read.

[Arez Al'Loke]

I feared it meant something like that. The thing is, it's just alot of quotes and some thoughts/replies on them, so it's not so long actually..

[Nolder]

seemed like a lot like an interrogation to me

 

thoughts/replies don't tend to end with question marks

[Arez Al'Loke]

I must say I'm.. Impressed at your response Nolder. No OMGUS? That's a first for me.. No crying? No raging? I'm very impressed indeed. I'm not implying you do these stuff, but they seem to happen anytime anyone gets accused of something.

 

I will keep the text normal size in the future. I just Thought it'd be easier to see my comments. And by the way, you try to multi quote 12 things without bumping into any problems..

I'm not going to quote anything this time. It'll be a hassle and unnecessary.

 

Nolder, you wrote "Actually I agreed with what EP was saying

but there was no reason to tell him that" I don't see how it helped not telling him that you agreed with him. To me it seems like a conviniant way to backpaddle (if that's what the proper term is).

 

"You wanna use quotes? Use'em right" Here you just avoid my question.. Don't bother answering that question now..

 

"So I'm responsible for what Ishy does and doesn't do?" You could be. IF you and Ishy are scum, you could be the one directing the flow. When I attack you, I assume your scum until convinced of otherwise.

 

"you can argue he didn't intend to be lynched but that's like saying someone who drenches themselves with fish guts and jumps into a shark tank didn't intend to get ripped apart"

That doesn't make any sense.. Are you implying that townie's are sharks and scum are sharks aswell?? I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that.

 

"We sure snagged those scum right?

Maybe you know which mafia if any were on EP when he was lynched but I sure don't"

Nolder, from what I know, you're a pretty good Mafia player (The game). I think that you know aswell as I that the info we gained on that is not easily dismissible. Anyone who says otherwise needs to be kept an close eye on.

 

"It happens more often when you're playing with very good players

But I couldn't begin to suppose how often it happens in general"

 

"They're both as likely

it's also equally likely there will be more than one mafia"

First of all, one could argue that this is an basic game, the chance we only have "Very good players" as you state is not as likely. BUT, even if it's a basic game, it doesn't mean experianced players can't join. So I won't push that point.

Although, I will tell you the probablitiy of that happening, Killing two birds with one stone.

 

This is a twelve player game, so from what I've learned, in basic twelve player games there are usually 3 or 4 mafia players. that makes 9 or 8 townies.

7 players are needed to vote lynch someone the first time.

 

Here the math comes, BRACE YOURSELVES!! if we assume there are 3 mafia players (Best case scenario for your argument)

There will be a chance of 9/12 * 8/11 * 7/10 * 6/9 * 5/8 * 4/7 * 3/6 = 0,8 % chance that a total of 7 townie's will vote for a lynch. Remeber, this is purely mathematical and this will ofcourse not always be the case. BUT, it will be most common.

As you can see, the chance of atleast one scum participating in the vote is 99,2 % big. So there you have the answer.

 

"There's no reason to expect any role until someone claims it or odd things happen (an extra kill for example)"

Shouldn't it be the other way around? The major part of mafia games include a Cop. So wouldn't it be perfectly reasonable to expect a cop in the game until proven otherwise?

 

"No

The doctor will still potentially "save" the mafia"

I relent, I thought about it, and if a townie dies, the relation of mafia to townie increases which increases the chance the doc will save a Scum.

 

"Wat

My post has nothing to do with Ishy's and what you said is entirely wrong"

I'm afraid I can't prove my statement. It's simply word against word.

 

"I didn't realize I ever had "heat" on me until now"

Yett you say Hoof is going to build a case against you? Hoof has other priorities on his list as I've seen him write before. I believe it was Razen and Lenlo?

So your statement of "Hoof is pushing this lynch way too hard imo, he's eager to get to night and setting up on me for tomorrows lynch" is illogical.

[Arez Al'Loke]

Interrogation, call it what you will.

[Nolder]

Nolder, you wrote "Actually I agreed with what EP was saying

but there was no reason to tell him that" I don't see how it helped not telling him that you agreed with him. To me it seems like a conviniant way to backpaddle (if that's what the proper term is).

I didn't help per se

The point was I didn't want EP thinking I agreed with him so he'd feel more pressure, more isolated, and in danger

It was the beginning of the game and I'll use any method I can think of to push people to the edge and see what shakes loose

 

Unfortunately in this case what shook loose was a useless lynch

Then again it was his "plan all along" so I'm not sure how much credit/blame I can claim for what happened

 

"So I'm responsible for what Ishy does and doesn't do?" You could be. IF you and Ishy are scum, you could be the one directing the flow. When I attack you, I assume your scum until convinced of otherwise.

Guilty until proven innocent eh? Not a bad way to play mafia I suppose.

 

"you can argue he didn't intend to be lynched but that's like saying someone who drenches themselves with fish guts and jumps into a shark tank didn't intend to get ripped apart"

That doesn't make any sense.. Are you implying that townie's are sharks and scum are sharks aswell?? I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that.

Well if we're going to continue the analogy I suppose townies would be more like piranhas and mafia would be sharks

The point is the town is almost always a bloodthirsty mob, it's very easy to set them off into a lynch if you're being antagonistic which EP was

 

As you can see, the chance of atleast one scum participating in the vote is 99,2 % big. So there you have the answer.

I wonder what the odds are of rolling two dice (d6) three times and getting the same number on both die for each time you roll

Probably not very high

Unfortunately it happens all the time

My point? That probability will often defy your expectations

Count on there being "at least 1" scum on the train if you like

I'd rather look at what people are actually doing and hold them accountable for their actions than look for the magic number on the lynch train

 

"There's no reason to expect any role until someone claims it or odd things happen (an extra kill for example)"

Shouldn't it be the other way around? The major part of mafia games include a Cop. So wouldn't it be perfectly reasonable to expect a cop in the game until proven otherwise?

I suppose some might think so

I don't

Perhaps that skepticism comes from playing in too many advanced games

 

"I didn't realize I ever had "heat" on me until now"

Yett you say Hoof is going to build a case against you? Hoof has other priorities on his list as I've seen him write before. I believe it was Razen and Lenlo?

 

So your statement of "Hoof is pushing this lynch way too hard imo, he's eager to get to night and setting up on me for tomorrows lynch" is illogical.

I never said he was going to build a case on me

I said he was setting up lynches

After lynching Razen he planned to come after me because I "defended Razen" as if that alone proved my guilt

This is something mafia often do, link guilt to multiple people through weak associations

[Ironeyes]

Shoot me, my computer committed suicide at exactly the wrong moment. I'm so sorry.

[keyholder21]

Nolder, can you please show me where Hoof is setting up your lynch? I just went back and reread the exchange through you two and I don't see anything like that.

[John E. Kelley]

Nolder, can you please show me where Hoof is setting up your lynch? I just went back and reread the exchange through you two and I don't see anything like that.

 

Don't worry sis, I never saw it either. I honestly don't think it's there, just more of the kick the guy while he's down play that's the norm recently where Hoof is concerned.

[Nolder]

wow, WHAT just HAPPENED

 

from my perspective everything was smooth, with general town opinion agaisnt razen, and then SUDDENLY nolder and arez swoop in and kick up dust, and i am nearly lynched O.o

 

it just seemed sudden, is all.

 

 

anyway, given their actions over the last two pages i am almost certain that Nolder and arez are on a team. whenever nolder says something, Arez immediately pipes in and agrees. they have been in unison at least for this day. if they are not in bed with each other, whether for good or for ill, i am a water sprite =P And now suddenly, arez "doenst like what he sees?" hmmmmmm

 

regardless, because of those two and Ironeyes we've lost our chance to kill a potential scum today in Razen, but if some of you are on his team, then that is exactly what you would want, no?

 

MAJOR FOS @ anyone not voting Razen (the biggest train and most likely to get lynched in time) who was online around deadline. how can you guys, with such a looming deadline, fluff around like you have all the time in the world? ESPECIALLY ironeyes, who unvoted after Razen challenged him sligthly, RIGHT before deadline.

This was the post that really convinced me he was trying to set up lynches but there were a couple of other mentions before that weren't as blatant

[Nolder]

Nolder, can you please show me where Hoof is setting up your lynch? I just went back and reread the exchange through you two and I don't see anything like that.

 

Don't worry sis, I never saw it either. I honestly don't think it's there, just more of the kick the guy while he's down play that's the norm recently where Hoof is concerned.

sup

[keyholder21]

wow, WHAT just HAPPENED

 

from my perspective everything was smooth, with general town opinion agaisnt razen, and then SUDDENLY nolder and arez swoop in and kick up dust, and i am nearly lynched O.o

 

it just seemed sudden, is all.

 

 

anyway, given their actions over the last two pages i am almost certain that Nolder and arez are on a team. whenever nolder says something, Arez immediately pipes in and agrees. they have been in unison at least for this day. if they are not in bed with each other, whether for good or for ill, i am a water sprite =P And now suddenly, arez "doenst like what he sees?" hmmmmmm

 

regardless, because of those two and Ironeyes we've lost our chance to kill a potential scum today in Razen, but if some of you are on his team, then that is exactly what you would want, no?

 

MAJOR FOS @ anyone not voting Razen (the biggest train and most likely to get lynched in time) who was online around deadline. how can you guys, with such a looming deadline, fluff around like you have all the time in the world? ESPECIALLY ironeyes, who unvoted after Razen challenged him sligthly, RIGHT before deadline.

This was the post that really convinced me he was trying to set up lynches but there were a couple of other mentions before that weren't as blatant

 

I guess I can see how you could see that with his discussion of you and Arez on a team. I honestly didn't pull that from what he said (he tends to overreact a lot so i take what he says with a grain of salt - love ya Hoof, but I do :/ ) , but as the next day hasn't started yet, I suppose maybe it was too soon? I probably should have waited a little longer to ask .

 

Thanks for answering though.

[Nolder]

no problem

[Blackhoof]

 

Don't worry sis, I never saw it either. I honestly don't think it's there, just more of the kick the guy while he's down play that's the norm recently where Hoof is concerned.

 

Ishy, i like it when people defend me, but i don't think i deserve it this time. on day 1, when people vote me solely because i am "easy" to lynch on that day, I kinda do, but i usually get lynched due to my actions, not some curse. it is night 2 now, and i don't think that it is appropriate to bubble-wrap me or continually act like i am some "safe bet" for evil people to take advantage of no matter the time, day or situation. i am hardly down, i suppose i overreacted about nearly being lynched. please stop being a Perrin to my Faile (god i hate Faile) i am a big boy and i can stand on my own two feet... at least after day 1 :P

[Nolder]

who doesn't hate Fail?

[Darthe]

I met a girl one time who liked her because she empowered women but that confused me because most women in the series do so and feminism is not really an intended motif of the plot but rather a simple natural progression due to the way natural order evolved in the historical subtext of the books. Really aggravating.

[Ironeyes]

*bites tongue about feminism in WOT*

[Sakaea]

who doesn't hate Faile?

 

Me

[John E. Kelley]

who doesn't hate Faile?

 

Me

 

Say it ain't so.....

[keyholder21]

who doesn't hate Faile?

 

Me

 

Whaaaaaaaa?

 

Really?

[Nolder]

[Darthe]

Ouch, how can you live with yourself?

 

 

But seriously, :whitecloak: :whitecloak: :whitecloak: :whitecloak: :whitecloak: :whitecloak:

 

 

Whitecloak