Are The Ways Cleansed?

[Johnny-Solstice]

I had asked my mom this question. Heres how the conversation went: "Mom, you said the taint on saidin was cleansed right?" "Yeah" "Then wouldn't the Ways be cleansed too?" "Hmm. Good question." No answer, so I decided to ask here, if they would travel the Ways again, would it be cleansed and like it was at first? And what exactly is Machin Shin?

[CrazyMike]

No, the ways are not cleansed,,, the only thing that was cleansed when Rand and Nynaeve cleansed Saidin of the Taint was Saidin...

 

The Ways were created by male channelers (Male Aes Sedai) after the DO's bore was sealed and Saidin was Tainted ,,, because of the Taint on Saidin the ways were also Tainted, and over time an almost living entity, better discribed as a chaotic coherent evil , grew and took form in the ways, that is Machin Shin:

http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/

: it is an evil that is almost mindless and continously hungry for more life,,, it even attacks and eats Trollocs and Myrddraal having no reguard for the DO or his Minions...

 

Machin Shin feels an afinity or brotherhood with Mashadar and Mordeth the evil of Shadar Logoth and beggs Padan Fain to join with it, but Machin Shin does not attack Padan Fain...

 

Hey maybe Machin Shin can be used to destroy the DO ?

[Johnny-Solstice]

It could be. But, Loial said that once the Ways were different. Sunny, fields, stuff like that. So wouldn't be posssible for the Ways to somehow get cleansed?

[Guest Majsju]

It could be. But, Loial said that once the Ways were different. Sunny, fields, stuff like that. So wouldn't be posssible for the Ways to somehow get cleansed?

 

Maybe, if someone figured out a way to destroy Machin Shin. From what we've seen so far, channeling doesn't have much effect on it though.

 

I doubt that would happen, with the Ogier preparing to leave, and all that.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Rand was able to cleanse saidin because the evil in Shadar Logoth constituted a polar opposite to the evil of the taint. The two evils attracted and consumed each other.

 

So, the most likely way to rid the Ways of Machin Shin would be to expose Machin Shin to its polar opposite. The problem is that we haven't yet seen anything that might constitute a polar opposite to Machin Shin.

[chemteach1977]

I think there is a strong possibility the ways will be clean again but maybe not "onstage." There is a load of work to be done in book 12 and i am afraid the fate of the ways will be one of many things not tied up neatly.

 

I have hope for the ways for a couple reasons.

1. Loial is going to try and talk the Ogier into staying to help fight the DO. Somehow, i don't see him failing but who knows...

2. Aviendha apparently identified a talisman of growing (used by the Ogier to grow or fix waygates i believe) during her evaluation of ter'angreal in Caemlyn. What is the point of mentioning that if there is no hope for the ways?

3. The fact that 100,000 shadowspawn were able to use the ways with very few casualties, at the very least, seems to indicate a weakening or absence of the black wind.

[CrazyMike]

I believe the Ways were created in an unformed or unreal Reality sort of like the VOID that is present when a Portal for Skimming is opened ,,, it doesn't realy exist except that it was created by the weave for Skimming ,,, maybe like creating a whole new Universe that is Void and without form, a vast nothingness,,, in the creation of the Ways, the new Void Universe was filled with constructions and permanently held open by the many gates...

[caraieil]

I thought most or all stedding had a talisman of growing-tEoTW- but could be completely wrong there so...

Surely if the ways are expanded between new way gates they will not be dark etc. as the power now used in creating them is clean. I presume the talisman of growing is some kind or ter'angreal that allows a non chaneller to some how channel saidin and use it to form the ways. Just idle conjecture.

 

What would happen if mashadar and machin shin were brought together, would two polar opposites of evil consume each other and join to form a neutral i.e. non-evil product? because mashadar was the embodiment of the evil of SL and machin schin is the embodiment of the evil of the taint shouldn't they be opposite?

[CrazyMike]

If what I believe is right then Yes NEW Ways could be created but how do you make the Paths and bridges which anyone can use without the Power of the Source to make your own path or boat or flying platform or stepping stone,,, while they can make and permanently fix in place a Open Gate to the NEW WAYS how would you make the the connecting roads and paths and bridges...

 

as far as I know the only surviving parts of the Evil in Shadar Logath are Padin Fain and the Kife he has and the wound in Rand al'Thors side,,, and if I am right then Machin Shin is strangly attracted to the evil of Shadar Logath and Mashadar as seen in the way Machin Shin pleaded and begged Padin Fain to join him... many books ago

[algspkr]

If what I believe is right then Yes NEW Ways could be created but how do you make the Paths and bridges which anyone can use without the Power of the Source to make your own path or boat or flying platform or stepping stone,,, while they can make and permanently fix in place a Open Gate to the NEW WAYS how would you make the the connecting roads and paths and bridges...

 

as far as I know the only surviving parts of the Evil in Shadar Logath are Padin Fain and the Kife he has and the wound in Rand al'Thors side,,, and if I am right then Machin Shin is strangly attracted to the evil of Shadar Logath and Mashadar as seen in the way Machin Shin pleaded and begged Padin Fain to join him... many books ago

Machin Shin fled from Fain in terror.

[chuckievi]

In my mind it comes down to what you believe the ways are. If you believe they are a physical "place" that was created with the power and over time degraded due to the taint, then no, they probably will not "heal" and become warm and fuzzy as they used to be.

 

On the other hand if the ways are not a permanent place but infact something akin to skimming (without the need to channel and create your handy platform) then they could infact "heal" in time as they would continualy use the male half of the power to stay around.

 

Since the talisman of growing merely taps into existing ways and creates a new endpoint, creating new ways wouldn't make them any cleaner or brighter. sure, the new walkways wouldn't be pitted or broken, but the sky would still be dark (unless they healed).

[Thor]

Machin Shin fled from Fain in terror.

 

Not true, Machin Shin greeted Fain as a friend.

[gelrad]

What about if Machin Shin was a male channeler that got mad and died in the ways...

 

Maybe the Ways are a diffrent universe, and the soul of those who die there are traped. Machin Shin as a channeler can consume the lost souls and from it it's streangh.

 

Maybe the way to clean the Ways will be to lure Machin Shin out of the Ways, so his soul could then rest...

[CrazyMike]

the WAYs ,Old and New???

 

Maybe wrong , but this makes most sense to me; to create the Old Ways :

 

(1) a skimming portal or skimming gate was opened; then

(2) the thing or Talisman used in making a permanent Gate was used to permanently fix the Weave creating the opening into place and also to turn it into something hard and solid, with all the Avendorosa Vine and flower engravings and reliefs in it; then

(3) the Channeler Skimmed to the place he wanted the Way to lead to and opened the gateway there and; then

(4) they used the thing for making the Gateway again, and

(5) That made the 1st (first) WAY path, however without the Road and Bridges and signs ect.; then

(6) They went and made the Roadway and Bridges and Islands suspended in the VOID to connect the different Openings or Gateways for the Way.

(7) at the same time the One Male Channeler was making that Gateway a different male Channeler was making a different gateway and so on and so forth;

 

: as to making the New Ways :

 

I believe that when Rand followed the Forsaken Asmodean into that skimming portal and skimmed for the 1st time he (Rand) was in a totaly different and seperate WAY from the Old WAYS where Machin Shin prowls... also I reference the time that Rand Made the Skimming Gateway and created that Giant Platform to carry his Army to Caemlyn from Cairhien ,,, and please take note that there is an existing WAY GATE in Cairhien and in Caemlyn ,,, and when using the Skimming paths you can see as far away as your eyes can see in daylight but there is no reference points to look at, Rand was able to see Asmodean when he was chasing him,,, so since no one was able to see any constructs at Cairhien and also at Caemlyn no constructs of any kind no permanently Created Gateways for the WAYs and no Roads and no Islands floating in the Void,,, so since they could not see them anywhere they must not have existed in that particular VOID Universe which had been Freshly constructed for the purpose of Skimming from Cairhien to Caemlyn, by Rand...

 

so consequently I believe that if they randomly open a New waygate opening and use the Tool to make the permanent Gateway there, it will be a totaly different place and universe and void,,, completely seperate and unassociated with the Old Ways and Machin Shin ...

 

I can't see any reason to creat new Gateways into the Old Ways seeing as how the Old Ways are polutted with the taint and decaying and inhabited by Machin Shin...

[Thor]

I don't think so. I think the Talisman of Growing (or whatever it's called), has the ability of making a new Gateway without any further help from channelers.

 

The bridges and things form automatically, because, you know, it's magical.

[Luckers]

Or rather, as i understand it, organic. The Talisman of Growing does just what it says... aids the ways to grow. And yeah, no channeling is required.

[loki redfern]

i think that it is the talisman thingy that is corrupted, as it was made by tainted male channelers and any ways grown from it would just become corrupted again. and, also thought im not sure but, i think it is said somewhere that the ways are something to do with the worlds of if/the mirrors of the wheel.