Final Battle

[EternalDragon]

Ok, the last few books (and the entire series) has been building upp for a climactic battle. Ok, this is crazy, but I doubt there really will be a crazy climactic war. To finish the series in one book (even a huge book) seems pretty unlikley if there's going to be a huge battle against the DO. I think that we are going to have the first 2k pages wrapping up the Seanchan, Ashaman, and Aes Sedai, and then we have Rand and Company vs. the reincarnated forsaken, remake the DO's prison, and hopefully a depressing ending. :twisted:

[mistergraviton]

I still think that if the DO does not break free with balefire coming out his eyes, torturing thousands of people in their sleep while leading an army of 50 million trollocs then the last book won't be that good.

I know people keep saying its impossible for Rand to actually defeat the DO. I don't care he still needs to fight him. I don't care who fights him some one had better fight the DO in the last battle ..I WILL FIGHT THE DO if need be!. I've been reading about the DO for this long! I need to read 1500 pages of the DO ripping the world a new one in AMOL PERIOD. To not be disappointed.

[Mercer]

^ That makes no sense. The DO would have Rand, a hundred Rands, any of them for breakfast. A few of the forsaken could take Rand; ALL of the forsaken fear the Dark One so much that fear is too weak a word. The Dark one may be able to touch the world almost to the point of breaking free, but if he/she/it breaks completely free, they're screwed. I think the idea is to bind the Dark One in a prison again, or banish him etcetc. Maybe even "kill" him. But this isn't the Lord of the Rings, I doubt you'll see a physical encarnation of the DO free.

[Guest Fire Lord]

Quote :

 

[^ That makes no sense. The DO would have Rand, a hundred Rands, any of them for breakfast.]

 

In terms of sheer power and strength, and probably experience-though I've no idea what experience the Dark One has-I agree. However, with the great sa'angreal...

 

A few of the forsaken could take Rand;

 

Did you mean any Forsaken ALONE, or a few of them banding up together? I reckon they are more experienced, but I get the impression Moridin is the only one that comes very close to Rand in terms of strength. Demandred is not as strong, and the women are even weaker.

 

I see any Forsaken going head to head with Rand losing, even Moridin-that is, if he doesn't use the True Power-, and if Rand was willing to harm women.

[CandymanGT-]

It says it time and again in all the books. The dark one has been free before.

 

He cannot be defeated. Destroying the DO would be as catastrophic as if he won (it's all about balance, people)

 

But he can be contained and imprisoned. He was imprisoned, then the bore broke him free. then they sealed the bore, and now he is breaking free again.

 

 

Personally I think that Rand et al will not just reseal the bore, but completely restore the DOs prison. This fits with the wheel of time idea (It was complete in the past, so it must be complete again) and would pave the way for the Fourth Age when people have not even heard of the DO and all is well for thousands of years.

[Thor]

About LoTR, Sauron was just a dumbass to put so much of his power into the Ring, that was why he was defeated.

 

Besides, Sauron is pathetic compared to Morgoth/Melkor, and Morgoth was never destroyed, only banished.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Well, technically, Sauron wasn't destroyed either. According to the mythology in the Ainulindalie, none of the Ainur can be destroyed, and as a Maiar, Sauron was one of them. His spirit was just robbed permanently of corporeal form. Since Morgoth was thrown out of the World, he was stripped of corporeal form as well, (which the Valar only took when they entered Ea). So, they're actually in exactly the same boat, so to speak.

 

But I agree about Shai'tan not being able to be destroyed. The whole point is to re-imprison him like he was before the Bore was drilled, not to "kill" him, since that probably can't be done.

 

As far as a physcial incarnation ... I think Shaidar Haran is as close as we're going to get. Personally, I think Rand is going to take a trip into the Prison. I think that's how he dies. But thats just my opinion.

[Mercer]

^ Did you not find Shaidar Haran sort of...bland? Vanilla? I understand why he has been thrown in to the series, and who he is (with what we've been given)...but I really don't give a damn about the character. Even lesser used characters like Graendal and recently Moridin have earned the right to be movers and shakers by this point, and whether or not I like their characters, I see their importance and enjoy reading them. Shaidar Haran seems so tossed in...unwarranted. Moridin's position, to me, is "Physical Shaitan'enough for me...'ooooh, I'm a superfade! I just mysteriously came in the series with no personality or originality, and I'm the Dark Lord...sort of!". Seemed forced to me. Meh, at least he has smallish parts so far.

 

Quote :

A few of the forsaken could take Rand;

 

Did you mean any Forsaken ALONE' date=' or a few of them banding up together? I reckon they are more experienced, but I get the impression Moridin is the only one that comes very close to Rand in terms of strength. Demandred is not as strong, and the women are even weaker.

 

I see any Forsaken going head to head with Rand losing, even Moridin-that is, if he doesn't use the True Power-, and if Rand was willing to harm women.[/quote']

I meant together. Moridin, yes, though I can't see him suddenly ceasing his use of the True Power now...his fate is probably the one (other than the main characters on the light side) I'm looking forward to reading most.

[Thor]

He meant any two Forsakken can take down Rand.

 

And Ishamael is exactly the same strength as Rand.

 

Shaidar Harnan isn't even a real character. He is a device of DO, just like the Gholam.

[Master of the Blades]

It is most likely that Tarmon Gaidon will not be a single battle. the way the forces are dispersed Iwould hazard to say that there will be a major confrontation in Arad Doman, Illian, at Tarwin's Gap, in Andor, Cairhien, and Tear. Anyplace there is an Ogier grove there is likely to be a waygate. Rand has attempted to have the waygates watched by the Ogier but that would unlikely prevent Myrdrall and Trollocs from forcing their way out. Further we do not have any inkling of where Demandred is holed up or what his plans are. He may be raising an army of darkfriends.

 

As to how Rand will confront the Forsaken and attempt to reseal the Bore, the author has given few tidbits except statements that are so vague that it seems impossible to make any kind of prediction. I do ascribe to the body switching theory with Moridin it seems too implausible. So far only the DO has successfully recovered dead souls and transmigrated them into other bodies.

 

Min's viewing only tells us that either Rand or LTT will not survive. Add that to the fact that LTT plans to die at Tarmon Gaidon and has succesfully wrenched the One Power from Rand seems to indicate that Rand will die and be reborn. One possibility could be that time will work backward in some fashion the way balefire does when used in sufficient strength. Maybe some kind of time warp or vacuole. Maybe the confrontation will take place in one of the parallel worlds such as Portal Stones or Tel'aranrhiod or the Ways.

 

Another issue that has been largely ignored is the concept of sheathing the sword that Lan taught Rand all the way back in TGH. The only time it was mentionned since was in KOD when Galad is prepared to accept his fate when facing Eamon Valda.

[Mercer]

Another issue that has been largely ignored is the concept of sheathing the sword that Lan taught Rand all the way back in TGH. The only time it was mentionned since was in KOD when Galad is prepared to accept his fate when facing Eamon Valda.

No...he already did that, in the same book, when fighting Ishy/Ba'alzamon. It's not literally sheating it in your own skin...just letting them do it to gain a strike of your own. Hence what Galad meant, as well. It's not really a major issue.

[danis]

I reckon it'd be cool if the DO managed to break free for just a second or so before Rand and co. managed to bind him again. And just in that second we say the absolute chaos the DO would bring. I doubt its going to happen, but a man can dream. We'll see anyway.

[DemandredFO]

In my opinion Demandred is with the borderlanders, why else would they abandon the blight defenses. The sisters with the borderlanders must be Black or else I don't think they would still be alive. As for how the borderlanders get free I have no idea right now.

As for other attacks some may occur before mat get moraine but there will still be major attacks after he comes back. There are several threads on exactly where the theorized attacks are going to be.

As for Shaidar Haran I think as the seals really weaken toward breaking all sorts of interesting things will happen, including Shaidar Haran. Even though Ishamael is Nae'blis but has to direct war planning so Shaidar Haran was needed.

[LightShade]

So, if there is no equal to the Dark One, how can Rand win? "A Memory of Light"? Have they ever addressed the Opposite of the Dark One? The balance to everything? The Light?

[icspots]

Maybe RJ will surprise us all and the Last Battle will just be a marathon series of games of checkers between Rand and the Dark One. :lol:

[Thor]

It's probably going to be like somebody sacrificing something to put a temporary (and imperfect) seal on the prison again, so that the Creator can make it perfect later.

 

Ofcourse there will be people and other things dying left right and centre. :lol:

[CandymanGT-]

I hope that the final book sees the prison made perfect again.

 

It seems odd that the final, perfect solution to the DO would not be covered in the course of the books. It'd be like we were watching a small episode in the course of the wheel. I wanna see the main show.

[Thor]

The seal won't be perfect, Fel said as much.

[CandymanGT-]

Fel was a scholar, not a prophet

[RobertAlexWillis]

The seal won't be perfect, Fel said as much.

 

No he didn't. Show me that quote.

[Thor]

He was speaking something like "The Dragon Reborn is not the Creator." And then something about the seal will only be perfect in the age before it is broken again, which is not the current age.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Show me the quote. Seriously, show it to me, because I remember this one, and it doesn't say what you think it says. So, do a little homework, rather than just saying whatever pops into your head, and lets talk about what the books actually say.

 

He says the prison must be whole again before the Age in which the Bore is created comes back, not that it will only be perfect when that Age comes back.

 

The actual words used are important, Thor, because if you change the words, you change the meaning. "The Dragon Reborn is not the Creator" is not the same as "the seal won't be perfect".

 

Learn! Think! I'm about 90 percent sure you can do it!

 

And if you want to prove me wrong:

 

QUOTE SOMETHING.

[Thor]

How's about no? You have any idea how heavy books are to carry from your home overseas? And I'm not going to spend money buying a second copy unless I'm desperate.

 

Why don't you quote something? Or better yet, is there an online version of the books somewhere?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Why don't you quote something?

 

Do you even read my posts? I quote all the time, giving you the book title, and the chapter name. I would give the page, too, but different editions have different page numbers, so I don't do that.

 

Or better yet, is there an online version of the books somewhere?

 

Not a free one. Or at least, not a LEGAL free one.

[Foxy_Sox]

Lord Of Chaos: A Taste of Solitude;

(Conversation between Rand and Fel is quite long, key points as follows)

 

" "What? Yes, exactly the point. It can't be the Last Battle. Even if the Dragon Reborn seals the Dark One's prison again as well as the Creator made it. Which I don't think he can do." He leaned forward and lowered his voice conspiratorially. "He isn't the Creator, you know, whatever they say in the street. Still, it has to be sealed up again by somebody. The Wheel you see." "

 

......

 

 

" Herid drew a circle in the air with the stem. "The Wheel of Time. Ages come and go and come again as the Wheel turns. All the catechism." Suddenly he stabbed a point on that imaginary wheel. "Here the Dark One's prison is whole. Here, they drilled a hole in it and sealed it up again." He moved the bit of the pipe along the arc he had drawn. "Here we are. The seals are weakening. But that doesn't matter of course." The pipestem completed the circle. "When the Wheel turns back to here, back to where they drilled the hole in the first place, the Dark One's prison has to be whole again." "

 

......

 

" "No, it was whole in the beginning, and I think it will be whole again when the Third Age comes once more. Hmmm. I wonder if they called it the third age?" "

 

......

 

" "Umph. No matter now. I'm not saying the Dragon Reborn will be the one to make it whole, not in this Age necessarily anyway, but it must be so before the Third Age comes again, and enough time passed since it was made whole -an Age, at least- that no one remembers the Dark One in his prison. No one remembers. Um. I wonder...." "

 

 

Do with that what you will.... 8)