Another Demandred topic

[Finnssss22]

asmo gave birth to the shaido sheninigans. culminating in the kidnap of the half wit's wife. mesana gave birth to the tower schism. that's two things more than ishy and demy have done this generation.

 

rahvin killed asmo, mat and aviendha. he knew how to fight. nynaeve and balefire saved rand's ass. Which cant be said for ishy the clown and demy the tool.

 

 

so tell me what should i wait for? one more book? what are demy and ishy going to do in amol that is going to erase books of mediocrity? nothing short of dying in blazing glory ought to suffice at this point

 

Asmo was only there in the first place because of Lanfear.

Messaana is now getting credit for what the Black Ajah (Ishamael's creation btw) has done to the Tower for over 2000 years...riiiiiight.

Something she wouldn't of been able to accomplish without those resources already being placed there by Ishy.

 

 

Like I said, it's all about instant gratification for you and it keeps you from actually enjoying the series fully.

Not enough "action", people getting killed on the shitter, giving birth to killer shadows or being strangled for you I guess.

Your loss, not mine, good luck.

[Azrayne]

I dunno if SOIAF and WOT are really comparable. Despite both being epic fantasy doorstoppers, they're very, very different when it comes down to style. WOT is about destiny, prophecy, metaphysics, good v. evil, SOIAF is about family, politics, morality and conflict without clear moral boundaries.

 

Sadly, they do share their biggest flaw, a tendency to become so bogged down in the minor details and side characters as they progress that the storyline crawls to a halt.

 

Small diversion: but speaking of storylines crawling to a halt, I just finished my COT re-read. Holy shit, I forgot how boring that book is. How do you write so many words yet have so little happen? Rand sits at the house recovering from cleansing Saidin, Mat sits in Luca's circus waiting to leave, Perrin sits around whining about Faile, and Egwene sits outside the WT doing nothing.

 

You could literally cut everything but a chapter or two of that book out of the series and it would make no difference :|

 

Luckily KOD is much better.

[Lisa Campbell]

RJ DID NOT LIE - HE RAFO'd.

 

BS STARTED AS A FAN AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN VERY HONEST WITH US, TO GO AS FAR AS TO CHECK RJ's NOTES TO CONFIRM FACTS OR EVEN TO PASS ON THE EVER EXPECTED RAFO THAT WE LOVE TO HEAR BECAUSE IT GETS THE ANTICIPATORY JUICES FLOWING. TO EVEN INSINUATE DISHONESTY IN RJ IS DISHONOURABLE TO YOURSELF! SORRY BUT I HAVE TO SHOUT BEFORE I HEADBUTT MY KEYBOARD - RIDICULOUS!

 

OK, rant over. Bloood and bloody ashes but I hope I don't find another thread like this one tonight. It's a major turn-off and almost makes me sorry I checked in tonight.

 

I never got on the Taimandred wagon on it's first circuit, I think Mazridin can be more easily supported not only through shared words, but also through shared actions and personality traits, and that theory hasn't been debunked AFAIK. Do you really think Harriet would have let the series continue knowing her late husband had lied? You are seriously selling her short if you do.

 

Also, knowing how screwy the timeline can be, assuming that a book must be about Demandred because he was in both pro and epilogues is just deluded. Either could relate to the preceding or following books as has been evidenced more than once. The prologue for tEotW is only relevant to the first book because it introduces the concept of the Dragon, and also Ishamael and his deranged acceptance of the Dark One's plan to destroy the pattern. Which was why Demandred never had a hope in hell (pardon the pun) of becoming Nae'blis, he wanted to rule, not to destroy which is why the Dark One held that particular carrot out. He needed to overcome Demandred's reluctance to use Balefire in the hope that the pattern would thin enough for him to exert greater influence on the world. Everytime Rand killed a Forsaken, it caused damage to the Dark One and the effects were visible. I think the Dark One was simply trying to redress the balance and maintain and increase the influence he had on Randland.

[Lisa Campbell]

Dag nabbit!

 

I just lost my post when I highlighted something to delete. GRRRRRRRRRR!

 

Edit: Just typed that all out again and then the original was there after I posted. Doh!

[ChaosBorn]

I honestly believe that Demandred is the Sh'botay of Shara, aside from the fact that we have not seen his onscreen character it would be a powerful position to be in.

A quote from the glossary of ToM under Shara: "there are channelers in Shara, known as the Ayyad... Male Ayyad are used as breeding stock only. ... Supposedly, the Ayyad channel the One Power only at the command of the Sh'boan or Sh'botay, who is always surrounded by Ayyad women."

 

This would mean that Demandred would have a large number of channelers available to him to cause chaos with.

[Suttree]

I honestly believe that Demandred is the Sh'botay of Shara, aside from the fact that we have not seen his onscreen character it would be a powerful position to be in.

A quote from the glossary of ToM under Shara: "there are channelers in Shara, known as the Ayyad... Male Ayyad are used as breeding stock only. ... Supposedly, the Ayyad channel the One Power only at the command of the Sh'boan or Sh'botay, who is always surrounded by Ayyad women."

 

This would mean that Demandred would have a large number of channelers available to him to cause chaos with.

 

Except for the fact that the Ayyad were the true power behind the Sh'boan and Sh'botay, killing them off at regular intervals. In addition Graendal kidnapped the two most recent throwing that country into chaos.

[MasterAblar]

Except for the fact that the Ayyad were the true power behind the Sh'boan and Sh'botay, killing them off at regular intervals. In addition Graendal kidnapped the two most recent throwing that country into chaos.

 

What better time to set up a puppet leader than at a time when the previous one has dissappeared?

 

As for the Ayyad, there has to be darkfriends among them. A little compulsion and 13*13 turning to gain power over the most influential of them, and suddenly he's the man behind the women (Ayyad) behind the man/woman (Sh'boan and Sh'botay). And as the Sh'boan and Sh'botay and pretty much viewed like Gods in a country rife with slavery, who would resist them.

[Suttree]

What better time to set up a puppet leader than at a time when the previous one has dissappeared?

 

We have zero hint of that happening however. All we have heard about is the chaos in the country and seen the results of it with the silk merchant escaping to set up his scheme in KoD. The divine interval for their rulers has been turned on it's head, likely things are vastly different than the old set up.

[MasterAblar]

What better time to set up a puppet leader than at a time when the previous one has dissappeared?

 

We have zero hint of that happening however. All we have heard about is the chaos in the country and seen the results of it with the silk merchant escaping to set up his scheme in KoD. The divine interval for their rulers has been turned on it's head, likely things are vastly different than the old set up.

 

Well, we haven't heard much of anything from Shara really. When was that mention of chaos anyway? In what book I mean. Wasn't there something about the sharan wanting to know whether Rand was really the Dragon Reborn or not?

[Ashaman Kovan]

Mr Ares. What you're doing to this poor person is not fair. Just kneecap them and move along.

[Suttree]

What better time to set up a puppet leader than at a time when the previous one has dissappeared?

 

We have zero hint of that happening however. All we have heard about is the chaos in the country and seen the results of it with the silk merchant escaping to set up his scheme in KoD. The divine interval for their rulers has been turned on it's head, likely things are vastly different than the old set up.

 

Well, we haven't heard much of anything from Shara really. When was that mention of chaos anyway? In what book I mean. Wasn't there something about the sharan wanting to know whether Rand was really the Dragon Reborn or not?

 

I can't recall exactly but news of the Dragon Reborn in LoC caused fighting to break out there, that is around the same time Graendal stole the rulers. We see the results of chaos all the way in KoD with the silk merchant however. With how tightly regulated that country is there must be a significant breakdown for him to have escaped.

[Suttree]

Well, we haven't heard much of anything from Shara really. When was that mention of chaos anyway? In what book I mean. Wasn't there something about the sharan wanting to know whether Rand was really the Dragon Reborn or not?

 

I can't recall exactly but news of the Dragon Reborn in LoC caused fighting to break out there, that is around the same time Graendal stole the rulers. We see the results of chaos all the way in KoD with the silk merchant however. With how tightly regulated that country is there must be a significant breakdown for him to have escaped.

 

 

Mr Ares. What you're doing to this poor person is not fair. Just kneecap them and move along.

 

Good call...vintage Mr Ares performance.

[Maleshub]

Moridin as Taim might have more recent evidence in the books. We know that Rand and Moridin are linked in something like a Warder's bond. We have several instances in the series where Taim just happens to Travel or find Rand in a place where he was trying to hide (most notably residence in Caemlyn and Fedwin Morr cup of sleep incident in Cairhien). I also think that Taim walking with a clenched fist behind his back is indicative of Rand's cut off fist. And we know where Moridin's second dreamspike is being used. And I don't think he'd trust Demandred with it.

[Terez]

Moridin as Taim might have more recent evidence in the books. We know that Rand and Moridin are linked in something like a Warder's bond. We have several instances in the series where Taim just happens to Travel or find Rand in a place where he was trying to hide (most notably residence in Caemlyn and Fedwin Morr cup of sleep incident in Cairhien). I also think that Taim walking with a clenched fist behind his back is indicative of Rand's cut off fist. And we know where Moridin's second dreamspike is being used. And I don't think he'd trust Demandred with it.

He wasn't exactly trying to hide in Cairhien; obviously the renegades knew he was there, and they were ordered there by Taim. He wasn't hiding in Caemlyn, either, and Taim obviously had spies in the city by that point. He probably sent the Gray Man, and was waiting on the balcony to see what would happen. He really, really wanted to know where Rand was when he was hiding out at Algarin's, but he never did find out. (Unless you believe he's the one that sent the Shadowspawn, which I doubt, and in any case, Moridin didn't seem to happy about that.)

[Simpleman2012]

In book 6, Sammuel had a discussion with Grandel, trying to dig out where Demandred was. Grandel knew nothing, but Sammy told her that he suspected Demmy down in south, because the chaos there carried Demmy's style and markings.

 

Downsouth is Amadacia, Gheldan, Murany, etc, bordering Illian, and that's where the dragonsworn under Masma was chao creating. He claims Demmy prefers to use proxies, so Masma could be his proxy, gathering an immense large army, dethroning southern kings that could have been made to unite with Rand.

 

The Shaido belongs to Sammy, and he had sent them into those southern states to keep Masma's troops occupied. Sevanna, the Shaido's leader is ambitious, and with Sammy's death, leadership of them will be snatched by to Demmy.

 

Not many dragonsworn followed Perrin when he finally rendevous in Merrilor. A larger force remained in Gheldan, and would be directed by Demmy to continue chaos there, even to the Seanchan, to prevent them from joining up with Rand for the final battle.

 

Seanchan, with the loss of Semihage, had lost a forsaken leader, and cannot be replaced by any other forsaken, for it takes time to build up rapport and command status. However, they are already a force of chaos by themselves, and are no match for the forsaken shadowspawn if any decides to annihilate them. Therefore, they will be left alone, with chao rabble to keep them harassed from joining the final battle.

 

The northern boderland troops had not been untouched. Although they had sworn to defend against the shadow for years, Darkfriends exists amongst them. They turned to the shadow, not because they wanted to serve the dark one, but only to ensure that the borderland states secures a private truce. No man can continue to fight forver the incursions of shadowspawn without rest.The most famous one being commander Inta, when he revealed to Rand during his sacrifice in Falme.

 

Nothing was written about who were controlling the vast borderland armies in the series, but darkfriends exists. So who is controlling them? The answer lays in why the borderland armies marched to search for Rand leaving their sector little protected. They would not have moved without some shadow trick manipulation being played. And they moved at a time when the Forsaken had run loose from the sealed bore. With Ishmael, a military genius dead, along with Rahvin and Sammy, that leaves Demandred - the commander of both north and south armies to crush Rand.

 

Grendal, Messana,Aringar, Semihage, Asmoden too had been vaporized. Leaving Moridin, Osangar (Aginor), Moghedin , Cyndane(Lanfear) and Demandred. There may be new Chosen ones, but at this stage, they would have been too late to influence kings and Queens, and would be perhaps control only the shadowspawn.

 

Of all of them, only Demandred had the capabilities to command vast armies, at this stage of time, for book 14.