What's with this Nae'blis thing, anyway

[OptimusPrime]

Are we seriously supposed to believe that any of them really wants this job given how they've all worked so hard to make Moridin fail at it?

 

Yes. They want Moridin to fail so he gets demoted and another one can take his place.

[Tyzack]

Isn't Moridin/Ishmeal/Elan Morin Tedronai the only one of the Foresaken to grasp what it is the DO actually wants to do? He is promising immortality to fools who think that there will be power or life after "the return" if the DO wins there will be no Wheel of Time and therefore life to have immortally?

 

Nei'bliss is, therefore, just another tool that the DO weilds to increase the amount of Chaos in the world.

[Dagon Thyne]

Of the Nae'blis is the Chosen of Dark. He/She is born into the pattern to be the opponant of the COL. Ishy hints at this when he calls Rand his ancient enemy and talks about their countless battles throughout the ages.

[Suttree]

Of the Nae'blis is the Chosen of Dark. He/She is born into the pattern to be the opponant of the COL. Ishy hints at this when he calls Rand his ancient enemy and talks about their countless battles throughout the ages.

 

We have zero indication that Nae'bliss is born into the pattern to face the CoL. Ishy is indeed the DO's champion and has faced the Dragon Soul numerous times but the title of Nae'bliss is open to whomever stands best in the DO's favor at any given time.

[Duskfire]

Demandred should be Nae`blis. He is the smartest of the Forsaken. Despite his hatred for Rand, he has never confronted the Dragon Reborn openly, or even given him a reason for Rand to go searching for him. Graendal thinks of herself as extremely intelligent, yet Rand was able to figure out where she was without too much trouble; he doesnt even have an inkling of where Demandred is. He works with proxies, and who knows how much chaos he has spread through individuals who work for him. He is the one who has achieved the Dark Ones ends most effectively, and as far as we can tell, he is the only one who hasnt had a special "punishing" visit from Shaidar Haran. That we have been shown anyway. Truly, he is the only Forsaken who has put aside petty hatred and anger and focused on the big picture.

[Naggash]

Demandred should be Nae`blis. He is the smartest of the Forsaken. Despite his hatred for Rand, he has never confronted the Dragon Reborn openly, or even given him a reason for Rand to go searching for him. Graendal thinks of herself as extremely intelligent, yet Rand was able to figure out where she was without too much trouble; he doesnt even have an inkling of where Demandred is. He works with proxies, and who knows how much chaos he has spread through individuals who work for him. He is the one who has achieved the Dark Ones ends most effectively, and as far as we can tell, he is the only one who hasnt had a special "punishing" visit from Shaidar Haran. That we have been shown anyway. Truly, he is the only Forsaken who has put aside petty hatred and anger and focused on the big picture.

I think you're failing to notice that Ishamael were released from the Prision (if ever imprisoned) very soon and has been working for the Shadow all that time. Where do you think all the existing Darkfriends come from? With the DO unable to interact with the World and only Ishamael left among those who had some position as darkfriends, you could say almost every darkfriend that you see through the series (black ajah included) is his doing.

And he was succesful in almost all his plans. He only failed in the Stone because he understimated Rand and let him take Callandor. Big mistake and yet one of the few. Also it's him who put in motion the search of the 3 ta'veren.

You see other Forsaken taking advantage and using this darkfriends but it's only thanks to Ishy that they have this tools.

He is the most loyal as well, since he cares not about power or position.

[damandred]

I think saying Ishy doesn't care about power and position may be going a bit too far, but he is the only forsaken who understands the DO' true goal and, approves which the others certainly would not.

[Naggash]

I think saying Ishy doesn't care about power and position may be going a bit too far, but he is the only forsaken who understands the DO' true goal and, approves which the others certainly would not.

He calls the other Forsaken fools for squabbling for position and seeking prominence and power, trying all the time to secure a hold of power to rule from when the LB ended.

That's why I think he doesn't care about that things.

[Wolf505]

A small point, but I don't believe it was Shaidar Haran who ordered Carridan to kill Rand. Carridan's PoV never seems to indicate it's anything more then a regular old fade giving him that order. We know he's seen them before, but he never says anything about it being very tall or anything else to indicate it's more then just a normal fade. We don't actually get introduced to Shaidar Haran by name until Lord of Chaos. I know there's some speculation that some of the earlier Myrdraal appearances were actually Shaidar Haran, but we don't know for sure until he meets Demandred at Shayol Ghul. We never actually see a fade we KNOW is Shaidar Haran order Rand killed. The one ordering Carridan could easily have been under orders from one of the other Forsaken.

[Naresh]

A small point, but I don't believe it was Shaidar Haran who ordered Carridan to kill Rand. Carridan's PoV never seems to indicate it's anything more then a regular old fade giving him that order. We know he's seen them before, but he never says anything about it being very tall or anything else to indicate it's more then just a normal fade. We don't actually get introduced to Shaidar Haran by name until Lord of Chaos. I know there's some speculation that some of the earlier Myrdraal appearances were actually Shaidar Haran, but we don't know for sure until he meets Demandred at Shayol Ghul. We never actually see a fade we KNOW is Shaidar Haran order Rand killed. The one ordering Carridan could easily have been under orders from one of the other Forsaken.

 

According to the White Book, your average Myrddraal doesn't have a sense of humor and The Hand is the only one ever to exhibit such, so the knowledge that Carridan's Fade laughed at him tends to suggest it was indeed the Hand. Or at least, as some have put it, a prototype for what would later become Shaidar Haran and likely got retroactively absorbed into our friend the super-fade.

[Halleck]

On who should be Nae'Blis I think Semirhage had a good argument for her case. As I read it she had control over the Empress who controlled all of Seanchan...which is a lot bigger than Randland, the Waste, and Shara combined. She should have stayed out of Randland completely because she already had the most resources and the largest army out of anyone in the world. I get that Randland is the center for the Dark One to come back but she could have taught a few damanes or BA to Travel and then BAM! Randland conquered completely by the Ever Victorious Army due to overwhelming numbers and channelers taught to be weapons.

 

The only problem with this is if she wasn't actually in control of all of Seanchan, but just the Forerunners and later on the Return. My memory is a bit hazy on that.

 

Also, I get that Nae'Blis isn't as grand as it is made out to be. But Semirhage still has...had the potential for it.

 

Edit: I looked at the map of Seanchan on the Wiki page.

[Maleshub]

The Foresaken were bound in Shayol Ghul and have only had 2-3 years to adapt to the world in which they've awakened. And in such a short time, they've managed to take control of most kingdoms through the shortest way possible: take the seat of power and pull strings. The vast majority of nobility and subjects were still "under the Light." And there was great personal danger to the Foresaken if they were exposed.

 

The downside of their quick power grab is that it takes someone powerful enough to unseat them to erase their gains. Their luck would have a certain Dragon enjoying this bit of work. Be'lal, Rahvin, and Sammael are clear examples of that counter-Foresaken strategy.

 

What I am trying to say is that Semirhage managed to infiltrate the Seanchan nobility and influence some actions. But she was working in an extremely dangerous environment and had to avoid discovery and the collar.

[Durinax]

Demandred should be Nae`blis. He is the smartest of the Forsaken. Despite his hatred for Rand, he has never confronted the Dragon Reborn openly, or even given him a reason for Rand to go searching for him. Graendal thinks of herself as extremely intelligent, yet Rand was able to figure out where she was without too much trouble; he doesnt even have an inkling of where Demandred is. He works with proxies, and who knows how much chaos he has spread through individuals who work for him. He is the one who has achieved the Dark Ones ends most effectively, and as far as we can tell, he is the only one who hasnt had a special "punishing" visit from Shaidar Haran. That we have been shown anyway. Truly, he is the only Forsaken who has put aside petty hatred and anger and focused on the big picture.

I think you're failing to notice that Ishamael were released from the Prision (if ever imprisoned) very soon and has been working for the Shadow all that time. Where do you think all the existing Darkfriends come from? With the DO unable to interact with the World and only Ishamael left among those who had some position as darkfriends, you could say almost every darkfriend that you see through the series (black ajah included) is his doing.

And he was succesful in almost all his plans. He only failed in the Stone because he understimated Rand and let him take Callandor. Big mistake and yet one of the few. Also it's him who put in motion the search of the 3 ta'veren.

You see other Forsaken taking advantage and using this darkfriends but it's only thanks to Ishy that they have this tools.

He is the most loyal as well, since he cares not about power or position.

one could say teh BA is his highest accomplishment. Not to mention that he had many AS killed who where searching for Rand, the fact moraine and suian are alive is because they where all sworn to secracy.

 

he has also been instrumental in destroying two powerful nations (Manetheren and Malkier) by either influencing darkfriends or by starting the trolloc wars