Mattin Stepaneos

[cloglord]

Simply, Verin will give the horn to Mattin because RJ has kept him around for some reason. Elaida doesn't need another nail in her coffin, there are so many nails there already it will be lucky if SHE fits.

 

The reason why Stepanos will give it up is because he'll get all the way to Illian thinking he'll be able to blow the horn and kick rand out of Illian, but he'll get there and find out it doesn't work.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Simply, Verin will give the horn to Mattin because RJ has kept him around for some reason.

 

.......

 

.......

 

.......

 

If you say so ......

[cloglord]

I do say so. Do you deny that Morgase has a part yet to play? Nope, because RJ kept her around instead of just killing her. We don't know what that part is, but we trust RJ to have a reason to have bored us with her and Tallanvor. Why would Stepanos be any different?

 

We know that the horn is linked to Illian, We know that the horn needs to get to Illian. We know that Stephanos wants to get back to Illian, and it seems to me that he would have an interest it getting his hands on the horn. This would answer the question of why RJ kept him around. Thw white tower didn't save their puppet Colavere, and spirit her away, they didn't track down Morgase and try and rescue her from whitecloak hands. Simply RJ had a reason to save Stepanos, and I believe that the simple answer is the most likely.

 

And to those who wonder why Verin wouldn't bring it to Mat herself? Besides the fact that she has no idea where he is, her bringing it to Mat would not do one important thing that Mattin Stepanos bringing it to Illian would. IF Stepanos brings it down the river from Tar Valon to Illian, he brings word of its discovery to the whole of Randland delivering an army of excited horn hunters into the hands of Mat Cauthon, hornsounder. I think that the band is about to get a giant infusion of hunters of the horn.

[RobertAlexWillis]

We know that the horn is linked to Illian, We know that the horn needs to get to Illian.

 

Actually, that just an assumption everyone makes, its not in prophecy anywhere, that I'm aware of ...

[Kaznen]

Illian has just called the hunts. All Illian cares about the horn is the glory and power it would bring them. And the hunters want the glory of finding it.

[Thor]

wt ? Nowhere in the book did I get any hint of that old man getting the horn, what made you think that he would get his paws or even ever get to see it?

 

And Elaida's coffin needs more nails, much more, she needs more nails until she realize that she is finnished. (she is blinded, just like all of us)

[DemandredFO]

I can't remember, can someone tell me what connected the Horn of Valere to Illian? is there a prophecy or something? Thanks

[RobertAlexWillis]

People (both in and out of the books) assume that the Horn is connected to Illian because that is where the Hunt has been called in recent times. Moiraine intended for Rand to take the Horn to Illian, and use it to gain the loyalty of that country, when her plans were disrupted by the theft of the Horn at the beginning of The Great Hunt. But I have never seen any evidence in either the books or an RJ quote that there is actually any meaningful connection. It is extraordinarily unlikely, in my opinion, that Mattin Stepaneos will have anything at all to do with the Horn. If there is some, I will gladly listen to it.

 

Incidentally, the argument has been made that Verin would not take it to Mat because she doesn't know where he is. Well ... she doesn't really know about Mattin being in the Tower either, now does she? She knows nothing of his loyalties, or even that he is alive. And if she just finds him in the Tower ... I doubt she would entrust him with something like the Horn ... he has no real allies outside of the Tower, he would just be a guy riding through the countryside looking for Mat. And thats even if she trusted him, considering that fact that he is hanging out with Elaida, or at least under her protection.

[cloglord]

"People (both in and out of the books) assume that the Horn is connected to Illian because that is where the Hunt has been called in recent times."

 

So? We know that only two people in the whole of Randland know exactly where the horn of Valere is, Verin and Suian. Both of these ladies BELIEVE that the horn of Valere NEEDS to be in Illian. Whether it is in the prophecies or not it seems pretty likely that its gonna end up there.

 

"Actually, that just an assumption everyone makes, its not in prophecy anywhere, that I'm aware of ..."

 

It is mentioned a few times, one for sure happens in TGH Chapter 5 The Shadow in Shienar. THe conversation that Moraine ans Siuan have about the horn is pretty interesting. THe first thing I noticed on a re-read of this chapter was Siuan's vehemence about the prophecies being fulfilled. On page 63 she says, "We are part of the prophecies, and the Prophecies must be fulfilled. Must!" At the very least we know that Siuan is dedicated to making sure that anything foretold is accomplished. The second thing I noticed in this chapter comes 2 pages later on pg 65 when Siuan relates the story of how Agelmar tries to unload the horn of Valere on her as soon as she arrived. During this Siuan says, "...,and prophecy said it would only be found just in time for the last battle." This is a clear indication that Prophecy at least mentions the Horn of Valere. Further, Moraine thinks to herself at this time that "Agelmar was familiar with the Prophecy of the Horn; most who fought the Dark One were." Even if we assume that the Prophecy of the Horn is different than the Prophecy of the Dragon it is still pretty clear that there is a body of prophecy that leads both Siuan and Moraine to believe that the Horn must go to Illian.

 

 

Besides all of this, it is obvious to me that Verin is Randland's formost expert on the prophecies of the dragon. For evidence of this I would point to the fact that she managed to uncover the fact that Rand was the dragon reborn and was in fact the only one to do so without being told. She was also able to correctly interpret the confusing prophecy about Toman Head and the seanchan. Further she seems to be considering the wolfking prophecy way back in TSR long before evidence of that particular prophecy was revealed to us. Since we seem to have only read 2 sections of prophecy related to Mat or Perrin, is it all that unlikely that there is yet more unrevealed prophecy that Verin might have figured out?

 

Simply, Verin the formost expert in Dragon prophecy believes that the Horn must go to Illian, whether she is right or not, I suspect that she is about to do whatever is in her power to get it there.

 

This is of course assuming that Verin doesn't arrive just at the time that Egwene wins control of the tower. Based on Egwene's past interactions with Mattin, and the widely held assumption that Rand's going to piss her off, it seems like a pretty likely scenario that Egwene the Amrylin, (who also knows that the horn is hidden in the tower somewhere) could send Mattin back to Illian with the horn, under the protection of the white tower (Verin), just to show Rand that she can't be pushed around.

 

 

One last point in this rambling post. Pg 70 of TGH Moraine, arguably one of the most politically saavy characters in the books, is discussing her plans for Rand with Siuan. This quote struck me as being particularly appropriate for this discussion.

 

"Siuan, the Illianers would follow the Dragon or Ba'alzamon himself, if he came bearing the Horn of Valere, and so will the greater part of those gathered for the Hunt. The true Dragon Reborn will not need to gather a following before nations move against him. He will begin with a nation around him and an army at his back."

 

This suggests to me two things. First that whoever brings the Horn to Illian would have no problem winning the people of Illian to them. Secondly the arrival of the Horn of Valere is likely to unite the Hunters for the Horn into a pretty substantial army.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Even if we assume that the Prophecy of the Horn is different than the Prophecy of the Dragon it is still pretty clear that there is a body of prophecy that leads both Siuan and Moraine to believe that the Horn must go to Illian.

 

Just because Siuan and Moiraine think that is what the prophecies mean, doesn't mean thats what they actually mean. And Moiraine had Illian on the brain for some reason from the start. Even after Mat blew the Horn and it was in Tar Valon, Moiraine still tried to use the prophecy Rand read to her in Tear to say he should go for Illian, when it turns out it clearly referred to Rhuidean and the Aiel.

 

It is mentioned a few times, one for sure happens in TGH Chapter 5 The Shadow in Shienar. THe conversation that Moraine ans Siuan have about the horn is pretty interesting. THe first thing I noticed on a re-read of this chapter was Siuan's vehemence about the prophecies being fulfilled. On page 63 she says, "We are part of the prophecies, and the Prophecies must be fulfilled. Must!" At the very least we know that Siuan is dedicated to making sure that anything foretold is accomplished. The second thing I noticed in this chapter comes 2 pages later on pg 65 when Siuan relates the story of how Agelmar tries to unload the horn of Valere on her as soon as she arrived. During this Siuan says, "...,and prophecy said it would only be found just in time for the last battle." This is a clear indication that Prophecy at least mentions the Horn of Valere. Further, Moraine thinks to herself at this time that "Agelmar was familiar with the Prophecy of the Horn; most who fought the Dark One were." Even if we assume that the Prophecy of the Horn is different than the Prophecy of the Dragon it is still pretty clear that there is a body of prophecy that leads both Siuan and Moraine to believe that the Horn must go to Illian.

 

None of those prophecies that you quoted ever linked either the Horn with the Dragon, or the Horn to Illian. They were thinking in political terms, not prophetic terms, that Rand could use the Horn to bind Illian to him. However, as Rand is now acknowledged King of Illian, there is no longer any reason to do that.

 

Besides all of this, it is obvious to me that Verin is Randland's formost expert on the prophecies of the dragon.

 

While that could be true, its a bald assumption. And Verin hasn't said anything about Illian to anyone, even herself in a POV.

 

"Siuan, the Illianers would follow the Dragon or Ba'alzamon himself, if he came bearing the Horn of Valere, and so will the greater part of those gathered for the Hunt. The true Dragon Reborn will not need to gather a following before nations move against him. He will begin with a nation around him and an army at his back."

 

Thank you for making my point for me. Moiraine isn't talking about prophecy here, she's talking about politics. Since Rand already has Illian following him now, not to mention Tear, Cairhien, Andor, and the Aiel, there's no longer any reason to bring the Horn to Illian, especially since Mat isn't there.

 

First that whoever brings the Horn to Illian would have no problem winning the people of Illian to them.

 

Rand is already King of Illian. Giving the Horn to Mattin Stepaneos would weaken Rand's position.

 

Secondly the arrival of the Horn of Valere is likely to unite the Hunters for the Horn into a pretty substantial army.

 

Except that the Hunters are spread all throughout the nations. By the time the word got out and they "assembled" (no guarantee of that either, most seem to be seeking their own glory) everything would probably be over.

 

No, I don't see any reason at all for Mattin Stepaneos to be at any way involved with the Horn, or for Verin to give it to anyone but Rand or Mat.

[caraieil]

Well said sir,

I'm wonderign if Mat did indeed die which would allow him to return to finland by the tower of ghenji and would also sever him from the horn.

I beleive the horn will remain in the tower until mat arrives there, if need be, or be carried out by the aes sedai when they march for TG.

why would anyone send it to Illian? as pointed out unless rand took it himself or Mat it would weaken rands standing in Illian.

[Mat is the Boss]

I think Mattin Stepaneos shows up in the Tower to tie up another loose end. RJ may have done this to play with those of us who thought Sammael killed him. Mattin is entering the story to remind us that not everything is like it seems. I doubt he will have any purpose, but as I said, things are not always as they seem......

[Thor]

Wow, Robertalexwillis, that is some way of saying something short in a long way. :lol: But hopefully that will convince people who think otherwise, good stuff. :D

[Luckers]

So? We know that only two people in the whole of Randland know exactly where the horn of Valere is, Verin and Suian. Both of these ladies BELIEVE that the horn of Valere NEEDS to be in Illian. Whether it is in the prophecies or not it seems pretty likely that its gonna end up there.

 

There is actually no evidence suggesting that either Suine or Verin BELIEVE anything of the sort. Suine and Moiraine planned on Rand taking the Horn to Illian for political reasons. It wasn't a blind desire or belief that the horn needed to be in illian, but rather the power of the symbolism of that action in establishing the Dragon's political power base. Those reasons were made void long since, and had Suine still held such a single minded belief in the nescessity of the symbolic link between Illian and the Horn she would have acted on it long since, while the horn was completely in her power. But no, once Mat blew it the link between them invalidated whatever symbolic link may existence between the Dragon, the Horn and Illian.

 

Specifically, this is made self-evident in the Dragon Reborn.

 

"The Horn of Valere," She gasped. "You brought that all the way here, accross hundreds of legues with Hunters everywhere looking for it? Light woman, it was supposed to be left with Rand al'Thor."

 

Note: Rand, not Illian, is significant in Suines eyes. She goes on to concider letting Mat die so that Rand may blow it, and dismisses the thought. Clearly indicating no especial prophetic link or drive at work. Something made even more clear in The Great Hunt

 

"The Horn of Valere is not mentioned anywhere in the Prophecies of the Dragon. But is is linked anywhere else to the Dragon."

"No, except that it must be found before Tarmon Gai'don, and the Dragon must fight the Last Battle there is no link between them at all."

 

The conclusion of that is that the plans Moiraine and Suine had were purerly the result of political planning on their part, not prophetic urging.

 

Verin, meanwhile, never gave any indication of her position on the Horn.

[cloglord]

Let's take a stab at this another way. Putting aside political Vs. Prophetic motives, let's concentrate on the quote about Agelmar. Moraine thinks to herself that

 

"Agelmar was familiar with the Prophecy of the Horn; most who fought the Dark One were."

 

This tells us two things. 1 That there is a prophecy of the horn. 2. That there are a LOT of people who are familiar with this prophecy.

 

It follows that if most people who fought the dark one are familiar with the prophecy also think that the horn is connected to Illian it suggests strongly that the prophecy of the horn somehow indicates a connection to Illian. Simply, if most people know the prophecies and most people think that the horn must go to Illian then the prophecies probably indicate a connection to Illian. Unless that is, you argue that most of the ones who fought the Dark One from the time that the prophecy of the horn was issued until the present time, misread the prophecy. Which I suppose is possible, but seems improbable to me.

[Ishydin]

Let's take a stab at this another way. Putting aside political Vs. Prophetic motives' date=' let's concentrate on the quote about Agelmar. Moraine thinks to herself that

 

"Agelmar was familiar with the Prophecy of the Horn; most who fought the Dark One were."

 

This tells us two things. 1 That there is a prophecy of the horn. 2. That there are a LOT of people who are familiar with this prophecy.

 

It follows that if most people who fought the dark one are familiar with the prophecy also think that the horn is connected to Illian it suggests strongly that the prophecy of the horn somehow indicates a connection to Illian. Simply, if most people know the prophecies and most people think that the horn must go to Illian then the prophecies probably indicate a connection to Illian. Unless that is, you argue that most of the ones who fought the Dark One from the time that the prophecy of the horn was issued until the present time, misread the prophecy. Which I suppose is possible, but seems improbable to me.[/quote']

 

Or you could making a connection where there is none. Perhaps the "prophecy of the horn" is just the legend we already know; that the horn calls back heroes of the wheel and that it needs to be at the last battle. I seriously doubt that the horn has any ties to Illian aside from that being the start place of all the recent hunts.

 

The problem with your theory and your insistance on this "prophecy of the horn" is that whenever RJ required prophecy to validate a plot thread, he's given us that bit of prophecy somewhat in advance, either in the little snippet at the beginning of the book or in a scene with a learned AS. As we've been given no hint of this prophecy other than a few brief scenes that were written a good 6 or 7 books before RJ even though about mattin steppanos being in this situation, your theory doesnt hold up to RJ's writing habits. And besides, your theory serves absolutely no purpose in advancing the plot, and does a couple things to slow it down, as maj, robert, and others have already pointed out.

[smashingsilver]

First of all buddy, you're grasping at straws. It's an interesting theory, but one that doesn't have any evidence backing it up. While I will not go as far to say it won't happen, in view of the available evidence it's not very likely.

 

Second, Luckers, could you at least learn how to spell Siuan's name right?

[cloglord]

On a point by point basis, a refutation of the points I care most to rebut.

 

 

Quote:

Just because Siuan and Moiraine think that is what the prophecies mean, doesn't mean thats what they actually mean. And Moiraine had Illian on the brain for some reason from the start. Even after Mat blew the Horn and it was in Tar Valon, Moiraine still tried to use the prophecy Rand read to her in Tear to say he should go for Illian, when it turns out it clearly referred to Rhuidean and the Aiel.

 

It is precisely their belief that is the important point. We are not debating whether or not Siuan and Moraine got it right, we are trying to figure out what Siuan and Verin believe, because it is their beliefs that they are going to act on, not what we the reader know to be true or not. Its their motives we need to be concerned with.

 

 

 

Quote:

None of those prophecies that you quoted ever linked either the Horn with the Dragon, or the Horn to Illian. They were thinking in political terms, not prophetic terms, that Rand could use the Horn to bind Illian to him. However, as Rand is now acknowledged King of Illian, there is no longer any reason to do that.

 

 

 

Robert Alex, I'm sorry that my quotation was not complete enough. THe prophesized quotation where Siuan says that the horn must be found before the last battle come from the prophecies of the Dragon. A clear mention of the horn in the context of the Dragon prophecies. Which I believe was in response to your earlier post claiming that no connection was ever given between the dragon and the horn. Well, there is, the dragon prophecies say the horn must be found before the last battle.

 

 

Quote:

While that could be true, its a bald assumption. And Verin hasn't said anything about Illian to anyone, even herself in a POV.

 

This was in response to my personal opinion that Verin is the world's formost expert on Prophecy. Even though I thought I made it clear, and that this was my opinion, I feel that I must defend myself. My opinion here is not a bald assumption, it is based on a very well documented history of Verin demonstrating a correct foreknowledge of what was happening based on her interpretation of prophecy. Examples include her interpretation of the "5 go forth" & "Toman Head" prophecies, and her pegging Perrin as the wolfking with his hammer, several books before we even knew such a prophecy existed. Which speaks to the other part of the above quote that I wish to debate. Just because we don't know what Verin is thinking does not mean that she is not thinking it. She never said or thought that she was a fugitive from Far Madding, until we read about it. It does not make the fact that she is a fugitive from Far Madding any less likely.

 

 

In my earlier post I said this,

 

 

Quote:

First that whoever brings the Horn to Illian would have no problem winning the people of Illian to them. Secondly the arrival of the Horn of Valere is likely to unite the Hunters for the Horn into a pretty substantial army.

 

To which Robert Alex responded,

 

Quote:

Rand is already King of Illian. Giving the Horn to Mattin Stepaneos would weaken Rand's position.

 

and

 

Quote:

Except that the Hunters are spread all throughout the nations. By the time the word got out and they "assembled" (no guarantee of that either, most seem to be seeking their own glory) everything would probably be over.

 

Remember we are talking about motives for the characters, not what makes sense from the point of view of the reader. If you assume, as I do, that Verin believes the Horn must go to Illian. Then it makes sense that Verin would try to get it there, doesn't it? If Mattin had the horn, it would make sense that he would go to Illian with it proclaiming its finding the whole way wouldn't it? Verin knows that the Horn is useless to Mattin, and that if he takes it to Illian proclaiming its discovery it is only going to help notify Mat to the horn's current wherebouts. So why not send it with Mattin? He's not going to be able to use it either for its intended purpose of calling dead heroes or to reclaim his kingdom, and the horn will end up somewhere where Mat will likely know to look and will likely have access to it when he needs it. Verin's MOTIVES are what are important. She needs to get the horn to Mat, and if she is under the impression that it needs to go to Illian, which seems to be what just about every other person in Randland thinks, then it makes sense that she will try to get Mat and the horn to Illian.

 

As to the second comment about the hunters being too dispersed to make it (or not having the inclination,) I say this. First a cursory examination of the Map of Randland shows that pretty much every kingdom and territory East of the mountains of mist has a sea route or major river route to Illian. Many of these river routes feed into the same river that flows from Tar Valon to Illian. If you believe, as I do that Lan can ride from Western Saldea to Eastern Shienar gathering an army as he goes before TG breaks out, it is not all that unlikely that Mattin Stepanos could do the same, escpecially since in this case almost all roads do not lead to Rome, but instead they lead to Illian. As to whether the Hunters would be inclined to follow the horn I would counter it in two ways. First, if they heard the horn had been found, what would they be be doing for their own glory. If you were looking for your lost sock, and you heard someone else had found it, would you keep looking? Second, Moraine seemed to think that the arrival of the Horn of Valere in Illian would gather the hunters, she seemed pretty smart about that kind of thing, so why isn't she right?

 

That's all for now, Lucker's you''l just have to wait for your rebuttal, I promised my wife I'd get off that damn stupid forum. :)

[imrathill]

the main reason for Moirane to belive that was that "the hunters was in illian at that time", now they are all ower the world, ok u can gather alot of then...,

 

i dont think verin would send the horn with mattin becouse who knows what hes doing? he could do alot of things verin did not mean to happend, so the best thing for her to do is to simply get the horn and TRAVELL to illian with the horn, if she wants it to be there..

[RobertAlexWillis]

We are not debating whether or not Siuan and Moraine got it right, we are trying to figure out what Siuan and Verin believe, because it is their beliefs that they are going to act on, not what we the reader know to be true or not.

 

See ... its that shift from "Siuan and Moiraine" to "Siuan and Verin" that throws that off. Besides, you're talking about their belief 9 books ago, before the events at Falme and before Rand became King of Illian.

 

Robert Alex, I'm sorry that my quotation was not complete enough. THe prophesized quotation where Siuan says that the horn must be found before the last battle come from the prophecies of the Dragon. A clear mention of the horn in the context of the Dragon prophecies. Which I believe was in response to your earlier post claiming that no connection was ever given between the dragon and the horn. Well, there is, the dragon prophecies say the horn must be found before the last battle.

 

And it has been found. That prophecy is fulfilled, and Verin knows it, better than most anyone. That still doesn't say anything about Illian.

 

This was in response to my personal opinion that Verin is the world's formost expert on Prophecy. Even though I thought I made it clear, and that this was my opinion, I feel that I must defend myself. My opinion here is not a bald assumption, it is based on a very well documented history of Verin demonstrating a correct foreknowledge of what was happening based on her interpretation of prophecy. Examples include her interpretation of the "5 go forth" & "Toman Head" prophecies, and her pegging Perrin as the wolfking with his hammer, several books before we even knew such a prophecy existed. Which speaks to the other part of the above quote that I wish to debate. Just because we don't know what Verin is thinking does not mean that she is not thinking it. She never said or thought that she was a fugitive from Far Madding, until we read about it. It does not make the fact that she is a fugitive from Far Madding any less likely.

 

That last bit about Far Madding is a valid point, just because Verin hasn't said something doesn't mean she's not going to do it. But it doesn't mean she IS going to do it either. For the rest, yes, Verin has demonstrated great knowledge in the past. That still doesn't mean she's taking the Horn to Mattin Stepaneos or Ilian.

 

Remember we are talking about motives for the characters, not what makes sense from the point of view of the reader.

 

I didn't want to quote the whole section following that, but here's my take on it.

 

Verin's motives have changed since book 2. She knows Rand is the King of Illian, and therefore doesn't need the Horn to get Illian's support. And there is no indication that Mat is actually going anywhere near Illian, or that Verin thinks he is. And Verin has never based her opinions on popular opinion ... just because everyone else thinks the Horn is going to Illian doesn't mean she thinks it is. In fact, the only prior knowledge she has displayed about it connected it to the "five ride forth" deal at Falme, and when she actually had it, she took it to Tar Valon, not Illian.

[caraieil]

Sorry, but I appear to have missed out somewhere, what is the wolfking/Perrin prophesy all about?

 

Can someone please direct me to a thread about it or the book it is in, I missed that completly.

 

The Horn,

why would Verin endanger the horn by sending it anywhere with anyone? With travelling, Rand can send Mat to get it from the tower at any point (in, or leading up to TG), it is probably safer hidden in the tower than anywhere right now. Even if no one else can blow the horn they can still hide/possibly destroy it and placing one of the most potent weapons for TG in danger does not make too much sense, but hey RJ is a master of the unexpected so....

[cloglord]

I'm a big fan of simplifying things. The original question that this thread asked was what part does Mattin Stepanos have yet to play. So in the interests of simplyfying things lets go back to the beggining.

 

We know that RJ has kept Mattin Stepanos in play for a reason right? We just don't know what that reason is. It bugs us because we the reader know that RJ has to start wrapping up a lot of loose ends. So, if I read the original poster right, what they were really asking, was how is RJ going to ty up this particular loose end? The jist of my whole theory comes from that view. How does RJ tie up this, (and all the other,) loose ends?

 

Despite the fact that it has taken RJ 3 books to conclude the mediocre saga of the abduction of Faile, we know that he does not have the same luxury with this or any other plotline that needs tying up. One book left, that's all he's got in which to end the Egwene/white tower thing, the tower of ghenji thing, the horn of valere thing, the seanchan alliance, the last battle, and the aftermath of the last battle. That's a minimum that needs to be accomplished, and even that is a pretty tall order. My tack when it comes formulating theories from here on out is to ask, "How will RJ wrap up as many of these things as quickly as possible?" The only answer I can come up with is that he will have to make everything come together, and kill as many birds with as few stones as he can. You have to admit that If things fall out as I've outlined, it would explain Mattin's continued presence, where Verin took off to, how the hunters could be united, and how the Horn & Mat can be reunited. 4 Birds,1 stone. Not to mention the fact that Illian is just a short trip downriver from the tower of ghenji.

 

The simple fact of the matter is that no one but the people currently with Mat have the slightest idea where he is. To complicate matters he is about to take a trip away from his highly identifiable army into the wilderness in the far northwest of Andor, and from there,.... into another dimension. If Verin, who has not even been in the same country as Mat since the beggining of book 3, is just now looking for him, I suspect that she is SOL. But the lAW of the LAST BOOK tells us that the horn and the gambler must be reunited by TG, if it doesn't happen soon, its not going to.

 

Now you tell me which makes more sense from Verin's POV? Does she go hunting blindly throughout the whole of Randland looking for Mat, or does she make sure that everyone and their dog knows where the horn is, so that Mat can find it instead?

 

 

If you chose the latter, what better place to make sure everyone hears about it than the place that everyone expects it to show up?

[Mat is the Boss]

Verin also knows that Egwene is a Dreamer, and having spent time with Wise Ones, she might have learned that Dreamers can use Tel`aran`rhiod to locate things, if they are in great need. Verin could just ask Egwene to locate Mat for her.

 

And besides, how hard can it be to locate a ta`veren? Verin could visit maybe 10 cities, or towns a day by Travelling, so it shouldn`t take her long to hear rumors, that will lead her to Mat.

 

And since she will start looking for Mat from the Tower, she is likely to ask Egwene where he is. Egwene can tell her that he was in Ebou Dar last time she heared anything. If Verin start looking for him in Altara, she`ll find Mat in no time.

[Luckers]

If you chose the latter, what better place to make sure everyone hears about it than the place that everyone expects it to show up?

 

Because she knows mat will go in exactly the opposite direction possible to the horn... at least the mat she remembers would have.

 

She is going to get the horn because it may be needed quickly, without the time to jaunt to tar valon to get it.

[Master of the Blades]

I see the king as Illian as having a useful role.

 

First he is a symbol of the power of the Amyrlin Seat. Should he escape and return to Illian then it would be another nail in Elaida's claim to be the true Amyrlin seat. Elaida's loss of face at another setback would help the WT sisters decide to remove her paving the way for Egwene to reunite the Tower without bloodshed.

 

Secondly if the king of Illian did return to hyis homeland it would strengthen RAT's hold on that country as an ally. His return would also act as a morale booster for the troops preparing to face the a possible Seanchan attack. It would also weaken the authority of Aes Sedai trying to influence events, their credibility would be extinguished.