[Light Vs Shadow] - HEROES AND VILLIANS MAFIA

[Turin Turambar]

good luck getting out early.

[Niniel]

What do you say about that Sakaea?

[hazelkrs1]

[...]

 

I was pretty sure that wombat's inventor claim was false and looked to confirm a suspicion last night.

 

Okay what? I can't expect that there are 2 finders in this game so this looks to me like a scum slip.

 

Vote Turin

I never claimed finder, I never claimed role cop, I never claimed inventor. I did believe Wombat's inventor claim was false as I targeted him both N1 and N2. The reason I targeted him again N2 was due to the lack of a NK on N1. Make of it what you will. The more this goes along the more I think the mafia are pushing for this reveal to out the town power roles.

 

I have a question: if someone is jailed can they then be bussed? Kae claims to have jailed Wombat last night but Leelou claims to have bussed him with Ley. Is that a Mod call as to which would happen or does the actions that would have gone to Wombat go to Ley but the actions that would have gone to Ley not go to Wombat?

 

It's pretty much the Mod's call, Talya would have sorted it all out and decided how everything unfolded, and we don't exactly know how it ended up, at least we won't until the end of the game. Trying to reason how she decided everything worked out is an example of metagaming the mod

 

I got you targeting Ley last night Sakaea, which is why you are either lying through your teeth, or something was screwed up. I asked the mod to clarify, but I got a big PAFO.

 

It makes sense that you would have seen that Song, wombat and ley were driven (there you go womby ) it appears so it would show as targeting ley even if she targeted wombat.

 

I doubt the order of NA's affected anything. It usually doesn't. I think maybe Song saw who you ended up on while Des saw the people who targeted me and ended up on Ley. Leelou as a town bus driver actually makes a lot of sense. If that's true, then I think the mafia tried to NK me and I think that Sakaea was the one who submitted. If Sakaea jailed me, it should have gone to Leyrann and Leyrann shouldn't have died. Therefore I think Sakaea is the LLL mafia NK submitter.

 

Vote: Sakaea

 

This makes a lot of sense to me, although I still think it's a possibility Wombat might have actually been targeted by a third party killer. Either way Sakaea smells fishy to me right now

 

Also, if people would say driven or bus driven when they mean targeted by the bus driver that would be nice. Bussing usually refers to the act of throwing a scum teammate under the bus and it makes me cringe when I see it used in this context.

 

Also, Des, how do you know you were jailed instead of just roleblocked.

 

Unfortunately, due to the rules, I can't tell you why. Pre-edit: Actually, I reviewed the rules again, I figured there were some kind of rule about not quoting pm's from the mod or anything, but there isn't. I won't quote it, but the way Talya let me know my NA failed tells me I was prob jailed.

 

Incidentally, it doesn't make sense for mafia to have Wombat scouted in the same night that they would have tried to kill him, but it could make some sense for them to RB him the same night they tried to kill him to prevent him from protecting himself, if they already knew he was the healer. So that makes me a little wary of Tina again, plus I'm wary of anyone who's now saying they were doubting Wombat's claim from yesterday

bold mine.

 

Why are wary of anyone who doubted Wombat's inventor claim that turned out false? That doesn't make any sense.

 

Also, I am not trying to discredit your findings. They seem to be true as I know I targeted Wombat and nearly everyone else has admitted that much at least. I am just not certain of your affiliation. I am just not sure this will not blow up in the town's face.

 

Scum could have a scout, and known Wombat's actual role (it could still be something besides healer btw). If they did then they could have breadcrumbed not believing his role and then once it was outed that he had lied used that to push a lynch on him. If they knew he was a healer for instance, would have been very neat to get town to lynch him since they don't know they can NK him for sure

 

I see that but why did Des see us all with Wombat?

 

Even if my results were driven as well, I'd still see everyone who targeted Wombat, even though they ended up targeting Ley, because my target would have been driven as well and I would've ended up watching Ley.

 

Des, did you get a report back that it was Wombat or just a list of names?

 

A list of names.

 

Overall, I can say there's a good chance we can catch multiple scum with this whole endeavor. Not exactly ure yet which ones, but even if we choose wrong at first we can always catch em later after the list is narrowed.

 

I'm also worried about Turin's "claim". Song has now claimed the Tracker, and I'm the Watcher, and a Voyeur wouldn't be applicable in this case, so Turin are you a Follower? "Tracker" type roles

[Sakaea]

I stand by what I said, I targeted Wombat. So unless someone targeted me and messed up my NA somehow, I have no explanation as to why Ley died. Cus you all are right, if I was driven to Ley, wouldn't Ley and Hoof both be still alive?

[hotpocket2006]

I stand by what I said, I targeted Wombat. So unless someone targeted me and messed up my NA somehow, I have no explanation as to why Ley died. Cus you all are right, if I was driven to Ley, wouldn't Ley and Hoof both be still alive?

 

The only way you are telling the truth is if you were role blocked... I still like my vote.

 

 

Also I tracked Sakaea the first night too, and she went after wombat, which is what made me check her again because wombat revealed his "bullet proof vest" and no one died that night. Also wombat did you get an action failed either night? Jailkeeping role blocks someone, and normally mods will tell someone that their action failed if they are roleblocked.

[Turin Turambar]

Des, my role is not investigative. I doubted Wombat's claim for my own reasons which I have stated already. I now am highly doubtful of Sakaea's claim. I don't see how she could be a jailer, have targeted Wombat, been driven and yet Ley died. It does not make sense.

 

We know she did target Wombat based on your result

We know she was driven along with everyone else who targeted Wombat based on Hoof dying due to being driven to Ley.

We know Ley died also. This should not have happened if she was a jailer.

 

Unvote: Vote Sakaea

 

Which leads to another question, Who blocked and/or protected you N1 Des?

[Sakaea]

You guys, I didn't wanna have to do this....I was a retired cop. When Poet was lynched, I became the new Finder. I was told that I could target someone each night, and if I picked the same person as the Finder I would also get the results. Obviously, I got no results.

I picked Jailer as a claim because I thought it would work, to keep me safe, and to hopefully net scum. Apparently I didn't think it through well enough, due to the fact that apparently, I still don't get how a bus driver role works. *rolls eyes*

 

I targeted Wombat N1 and N2, because it failed N1, and I wanted to know what he was, and he got quite a few votes yester-game-day as well. I'm still in the dark, except for his claim.

 

I'm sure you all have questions now...ask away.

[Niniel]

I agree. And I know it's not me that's lying, so Vote Tina

 

I bet she's a scum RB.

 

So this is what a cop says? Trying to get a townie (me) killed because of her fake claim. I don't think so.

[Niniel]

I highly doubt Sakaea's new claim but I'm on my phone and am going to bed - that is why I'm not voting her. See you tomorrow.

[Sakaea]

I'm not sure that I believe you're a townie. And as I have gotten no results yet saying anyone is scum, why not you? I'm sure there are scum on that list Des posted. Why not you, indeed.

[Aiel Heart]

And the tangle gets thicker.

 

Update: I will be able to get a good look at this tomorrow night. Will decide on my vote then

[Turin Turambar]

Leelou, did you say who you drove N1? would you let us know?

[WWWwombat]

What result did you get from N2, Sakaea?

[Sakaea]

No result. I assumed that because I was driven to Ley, and Ley died, that was why.

[Sakaea]

Oh, I'm off to work. Will check back later this evening.

[WWWwombat]

It didn't strike you as odd that Talya didn't give you a result even though your target was alive? I for one didn't suspect a bus driver until Des said that the Hider had targeted me.

[Sakaea]

Not really, once I saw that a mafia and a townie died. I honestly immediately thought redirector, not bus driver, but I suppose it amounts to the same thing.

[Locke]

Wow. Those were 5 intense pages. My.

 

Honestly, this whole scenario makes my brain hurt. Trying to think about it is quite confusing. Thus, this time around, I can really only manage to focus on one thing. That is Sakaea. I don't have time to go find quotes of everything right now, but from memory, let me outline:

 

D1: Des reveals; Sakaea casts doubt on reveal and doesn't unvote, as if she's trying to still lynchr Des.

 

Second half of D1-First half of D3: Can't remember any of her actions through that time. (sorry, is from memory - will hopefully have time to check tomorrow more thoroughly)

 

D3: Okay, first off she claims jailer and says she targeted Des Night 1 and Wombat Night 2. Then she changes her claim to backup Finder targeting Wombat both Nights once both original claims have been proven false. To me, this really just comes across as scum making convenient claims to get out of being lynched. I'm really suspicious of these claims.

 

Obviously I'm not going to voter Sakaea, considering we still have until Friday to lynch, and I'm not sure enough to risk losing our Finder.

 

Also, FoS at whoever mentioned that revealing their role would be detrimental to the Town. Can't remember who said it, but it was one of very few things that I managed to note as I read my way through.

 

[hazelkrs1]

Des, my role is not investigative. I doubted Wombat's claim for my own reasons which I have stated already. I now am highly doubtful of Sakaea's claim. I don't see how she could be a jailer, have targeted Wombat, been driven and yet Ley died. It does not make sense.

 

We know she did target Wombat based on your result

We know she was driven along with everyone else who targeted Wombat based on Hoof dying due to being driven to Ley.

We know Ley died also. This should not have happened if she was a jailer.

 

Unvote: Vote Sakaea

 

Which leads to another question, Who blocked and/or protected you N1 Des?

 

That I don't know.

 

No result. I assumed that because I was driven to Ley, and Ley died, that was why.

 

Mega-ping. Wombat pointed out one flaw in this reasoning, a second would simply be that you more than likely still would have gotten a reading, even if it was on a corpse. Plus, you didn't point out the fact that you automatically thought there was a redirector when Song said you hadn't targeted Wombat. Not only that, but the fact that you claimed jailer (which I'm fairly sure there is in this game) and then claimed to have targeted me N1, then to change your story to being a backup finder that targeted wombat N1, all just doesn't add up to me.

 

Since it doesn't look like anyone agrees that we should pressure BG right now, I'll go ahead and Unvote, Vote Sakaea.

 

Also, FoS at whoever mentioned that revealing their role would be detrimental to the Town. Can't remember who said it, but it was one of very few things that I managed to note as I read my way through.

 

That was Sakaea.

[Pantsonfire]

1322072025[/url]' post='2048398']

I do feel special. Everyone partying at the Wombat Burrow last night.

 

You should..... Just want to put it out there I think my invite must have got lost in the mail as I don't remember receiving one...... :(

 

 

 

This is a lot to digest at the moment and I just had lunch on top of that. I'll read through it all and quote what I find upon returning tomorrow..... (14-18 hours or so) ...... Unless I'm awake tonight in which case it will be 7 hours.....

[WWWwombat]

first off she claims jailer and says she targeted Des Night 1

 

I'd forgotten about that.

[WWWwombat]

@ Des: Yes, I did target you N1. You're welcome, LOL

 

Here it is.

[hazelkrs1]

Incidentally, if Sakaea ends up flipping scum, I expect apologies from any who doubted my plan to pressure those on my list for reveals. Looks like we already might have caught one mafioso on a slip

[hotpocket2006]

Incidentally, if Sakaea ends up flipping scum, I expect apologies from any who doubted my plan to pressure those on my list for reveals. Looks like we already might have caught one mafioso on a slip

 

That was actually all me buddy, but nice try lol

[hazelkrs1]

Incidentally, if Sakaea ends up flipping scum, I expect apologies from any who doubted my plan to pressure those on my list for reveals. Looks like we already might have caught one mafioso on a slip

 

That was actually all me buddy, but nice try lol

 

There wasn't really anything unusual about what you found though, tbh don't take this the wrong way but it probably wasn't completely necessary for you to reveal yet. Sakaea targeted wombat last night and was redirected to Ley, and you tracked her and found out that she had targeted Ley. I guess it could be said that you helped verify that there was a redirector, but we had already kind of guessed that.

 

The real slip came from pressuring Sakaea to reveal, which I had been suggesting we do for all the people who targeted Wombat last night, that way we could try to catch one of the mafia in a slip. Kae slipped because she claimed jailer, but jailer would have ended up protecting Ley, but he ended up dead anyways.

 

The good news is there's plenty of claimed town roles now, so you don't stand out as an obvious target as much as you do in the Macbeth game. The better news is I feel vindicated for my sloppy play earlier in the game

 

Today, we spell redemption D. E. S.

 

*drops microphone*