Seanchan = Israel / US?

[Demander]

I'm not sure if I'm reading too much into this but I can't avoid seeing similarities between the Seanchan invasion and the Israel/Palestine conflict.

If it was meant to be an analogy It seems like RJ weren't as hardcore Zionist as I imagine US soldiers to be

 

Ok, so here are some of the similarities I've noticed

 

- The return

 

- They claim to have some ancient right to the land

 

- They improve the standard of living for the inhabitants while taking the few right they had away

 

- Their culture are more advanced and they have greater military power

 

- (This one might be far fetched) their colors are red, yellow and blue. It made me think of the American flag even though it's not spot on.

 

 

So what do you think? Am I Imagining the similarities?

I do realize that you could probably make a list of of differences that's twice as long, but maybe not as relevant?

I don't suggest that the Seanchan culture are anything like that of the US or Israeli.

 

 

PS. I know this is a touchy subject for some people and I don't claim to know much about the conflict. I'm from Sweden, and in the spirit of the Swedish people - I remain neutral :)

 

Please excuse my poor English.

[Majsju]

While some similarities can be found, I strongly doubt RJ intended any such comparison. Regardless of RJs own views on the matter (don't know what they were, and don't really care), I can not see him using WOT to push any kind of political agenda, other than the very basic "good vs evil". We are not talking goofkind here, who uses his books to spread his ideology.

[aunt_pol]

Oh dear. Run and hide, dude! Folks round these parts tend to get rather worked up about real world parallels! I'm not saying it's not a valid question, but it might get some funny responses...

 

Your english is fine, by the way.

 

ETA: I think I remember reading somewhere that RJ usually took real world cultures/people as an inspirational starting point and then altered and adjusted to fit the aims of the story. I could of course have imagind that or it could be someone else entirely, but it seems right.

[Demander]

While some similarities can be found, I strongly doubt RJ intended any such comparison. Regardless of RJs own views on the matter (don't know what they were, and don't really care), I can not see him using WOT to push any kind of political agenda, other than the very basic "good vs evil". We are not talking goofkind here, who uses his books to spread his ideology.

 

Ye, maybe you're right, but I wouldn't say the Seanchan Invasion is as simple as a fight between good and evil. Other than their treatment of channelers (which is based on a misconception) I wouldn't say they are evil.

They simply think they have the right to take back the lands which were once theirs.

 

And no I wouldn't compare his writing to that of Goodkind, but even good writers beliefs sometimes shine through.

One that comes to mind is Brandon Sanderson. His Mormon beliefs shines trough the Mistborn series. He does it without preaching but they are still there.

 

Thanks for the reply!

[mb]

this page kind of talks about this topic::

http://wotfaq.dragonmount.com/node/164

[JKN-SW]

While there are some similarities, as you point out, the differences are greater imo. Without any political points (also a swede ) the main differences as I see it are that jews never left Israel/Palesine. From the Romans, via the crusaders, the ottomans and finally the British, the region was under 2 millennia under constant occupation/ part of other empires. Jews and arabs stayed in the area, although lots of jews spread out over other parts of the world, mainly Europe. The jews that left the area were more or less haunted everwhere they stayed with the Holocaust as a horrid ending. The feelings of guilt, and the changes/ending of the British empire after WW2, made the foundation of Israel a possible. The jews in the area had fought a guerilla war against the British rule and against the arabs for some time before that.

 

So, the notion of an empire, returning to conquer their "home" after a thousand years, that is then a (or several) free country (ies) is pretty far from the parallell.

[jsbrads]

jhinko is right

I think if you want to see parallels, look to history, but don't expect any one-to-ones

Seachan have some japanese culture, shienar have japanese art

is it arad doman that has chinese food? i forgot

Aiel are part native american, part else

Andor mostly English

saldeans are part italian

tinkers part gypsy

Shara part behind the iron curtain, part arab?

plus lots more, tho we xhould probably start new discussion for this...

[Din]

I really don't think the WoT is a commentary on Middle East politics.

[Demander]

While there are some similarities, as you point out, the differences are greater imo. Without any political points (also a swede ) the main differences as I see it are that jews never left Israel/Palesine. From the Romans, via the crusaders, the ottomans and finally the British, the region was under 2 millennia under constant occupation/ part of other empires. Jews and arabs stayed in the area, although lots of jews spread out over other parts of the world, mainly Europe. The jews that left the area were more or less haunted everwhere they stayed with the Holocaust as a horrid ending. The feelings of guilt, and the changes/ending of the British empire after WW2, made the foundation of Israel a possible. The jews in the area had fought a guerilla war against the British rule and against the arabs for some time before that.

 

So, the notion of an empire, returning to conquer their "home" after a thousand years, that is then a (or several) free country (ies) is pretty far from the parallell.

 

I bow to your argument, Sir. You obviously know more about this subject than me, thanks :)

[Demander]

jhinko is right

I think if you want to see parallels, look to history, but don't expect any one-to-ones

Seachan have some japanese culture, shienar have japanese art

is it arad doman that has chinese food? i forgot

Aiel are part native american, part else

Andor mostly English

saldeans are part italian

tinkers part gypsy

Shara part behind the iron curtain, part arab?

plus lots more, tho we xhould probably start new discussion for this...

 

I never sugested that the Seanchan culture was simmular to that of the US or the Jews. I was talking about their role in the conflict not the culture.

Anyway, Jhinko managed to poke a big hole in my theory :)

[KLF]

Funny, I always saw the Seanchan more like Chinese or Japanese.

[TomKlein]

In my opinion, the "reason" for invading and occupying other lands has often been that the lands are theirs in the first place. This is what the Germans said in both World Wars as well and was their primary reason for invading Poland. So yes, I do agree that it has parallels with the Israeli wars, and with a lot of other wars as well.

[LazyMonk]

While there are some similarities, as you point out, the differences are greater imo. Without any political points (also a swede ) the main differences as I see it are that jews never left Israel/Palesine. From the Romans, via the crusaders, the ottomans and finally the British, the region was under 2 millennia under constant occupation/ part of other empires. Jews and arabs stayed in the area, although lots of jews spread out over other parts of the world, mainly Europe. The jews that left the area were more or less haunted everwhere they stayed with the Holocaust as a horrid ending. The feelings of guilt, and the changes/ending of the British empire after WW2, made the foundation of Israel a possible. The jews in the area had fought a guerilla war against the British rule and against the arabs for some time before that.

 

So, the notion of an empire, returning to conquer their "home" after a thousand years, that is then a (or several) free country (ies) is pretty far from the parallell.

 

That's right. And there's a lot more.

Lots of Jews came to Israel with an intent to resurrect a state for Jew but it was never an act of conquest, they initially tried to get the ottomans rulers approval and buy lands from them. Violence came later when locales tried to force Jewish settlers out, and when the British tried to restrict others from reaching the land. Later, a lot of Jews fled to Israel as a last resort -- persecuted war refugees with nowhere else to go.

 

Also, Israel never had any expansionist intentions, and no missionary intentions -- on the contrary, whoever tries to convert to Judaism in Israel will find it quite difficult.

[Majsju]

Keep in mind that this board is for discussing WOT, not the politics of our world. Opinions about what israel is or is not belongs on the debates & discussions board.

[Elan Tedronai]

I love my adapted country but where ever the brits go they.

 

The arabs and jews were living in harmony for years until the brits colonised the area and when they left it turned into one big fire zone.

 

Same with india and pakistan. Same with Ogaden which was criminally given to Eithopia without the approval of the populationb.

[Lacanos]

Generally speaking, you can find parallels between real life situations and fictional situations you dislike in most cases. It's less because that was intended by the author, but rather he portrays (for example) a state to be disliked in a particular way, and therefore if you dislike a real state, you can find reasons why it's "the same".

 

Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars has been compared to everyone from Richard Nixon to Hitler for example. The Nixon parallel has been "spotted" by lots of people, yet George Lucas explicitly stated that was NOT his intent.

[jsbrads]

I love my adapted country but where ever the brits go they.

 

The arabs and jews were living in harmony for years until the brits colonised the area and when they left it turned into one big fire zone.

 

Same with india and pakistan. Same with Ogaden which was criminally given to Eithopia without the approval of the populationb.

 

It is so funny that you blame the brits for actions done by Muslim people, check the actual history.

[Luckers]

And on that note, I'm locking the thread. This sort of discussion is for the Debates and Discussions board.