The Ape's --- OUTBREAK MAFIA: GAME OVER!

[Verbal32]

I don't think I've ever been more pissed off on this site than I am this moment. This might have been my last mafia game on DM. Pathetic.

 

You guys really have no idea what 'spirit of the game' means, do you? You want to gloat? How about take the beating I just gave you, learn from it, and move on.

 

Sorry. You indeed have won. I didn't want to say/do something you wouldn't like. Sorry if I did.

 

I think you missed the point, Ley. It isn't about what I would like - it's about the integrity of the game and its players.

[Blackhoof]

Oh no, I have lost.... with two votes on hybrid he is dead....

 

Oh wait, you have to bold AND red your vote, and verbal only bolded his vote on hybrid.

 

unvote

 

vote verbal

 

Sorry verb

 

 

You don't have to red the vote - check the rules. And it is a hammer game. Game is over. Trust me, I'm not falling for anything.....besides, you definitely did not have a play like that in mind. Nice try.

 

Really? :'(

I feel like quite the loser now lol. Good game verb, you did manage to convince me hybrid was scummier, hence why I voted him. At the time, I DID notice what I thought was a null-vote from you and I DID think "we shall see what peoples reactions are to this then". I most certainly did have that play in mind thank you.

 

I understand frustration at my mistake, and I apologise for making it, but you seem to be implying that I DID IT ON PURPOSE! What possible reason could I have for making myself look like a complete idiot? Why would anyone do that unless it was an honest mistake?

 

And then you rant about it? About a misunderstanding? Like I was pulling a grand, epic scheme that utterly craps on the integrity of the game???

 

Melodrama much.

[Blackhoof]

You did beat us well.

 

I still can't believe Hoof voted you after my case I made on you. It was basically hard evidence.

 

Oh well.

 

He trixsded me with his logicalness!

 

I had no hope! :'(

;)

[Kivam]

Actually, the rules don't say anything about voting. But this IS said in the rules:

 

3. If I think you are employing tactics that are outside the spirit of the game, I will modkill you. Don't assume because my list of rules is short, that you don't have to adhere to the basic set of mafia rules that are typical of any standard game.

 

I would say that bold and red is typical of any standard game.

 

Ok, this is about as much as I'm taking on the subject. The mod's rules are law. Ape allowed bold votes in this game; therefore, the game ended with Hoof's hammer.

 

Also, he is from JN where we just bold our votes. The "spirit" of the game is that it ended with the hammer, as was Hoof's intention.

 

 

 

 

 

Mwa ha ha HA!

 

I cannot believe my ruse worked! I hoped that if hybrid wasn't the last scum, verbal and the other mafia would brag and celebrate, allowing me to easily switch votes and win :)

 

 

*celebrates harder*

 

*gloats at verb*

 

*celebrates more*

 

 

WTF is this?

 

Listen, if you are actually saying that was your plan, then I'm calling you out.....you had no clue, and you hammered Hybrid. If the town is sinking to this kind of sore losing, then I'm very disappointed. I've been working hard, along with other vets, to keep playing games here in the efforts of getting better games.

 

That is about to come to a screeching halt. I don't think I've ever been more pissed off on this site than I am this moment. This might have been my last mafia game on DM. Pathetic.

 

 

You guys really have no idea what 'spirit of the game' means, do you? You want to gloat? How about take the beating I just gave you, learn from it, and move on.

 

This.

 

And Verb? That was epic.

[John E. Kelley]

Yes it was. And once the QT is released, you will all see for yourselves just how epic it really was. That was some of the best laid plans I've ever seen in a mafia game before. My Mafia-IQ went up 25 points just witnessing it. And when all is said and done, you will feel thankful to be the ones out-played by Verb. I would call this a win for the scum team, but it was all Verbal.

[Blackhoof]

Credit where it is due. :D

 

Congratz to verb and the scum team. No matter what I thought happened, they played a great game.

[Amadine]

Well played scum, well played. Looking forward to the QT :)

[John McClane]

Ok, here is my breadcrumbing (which I actually said I was doing, lol):

 

 

Let me get this straight - you are voting me not because of a case, but rather because I'm a good player and a clean game means scum? Have you played that many games with me to meta this? Could it be I'm playing clean because I'm town?

 

If you'd like my opinion, I'm wondering what took the night phase a full freakin' day. I'm wondering where Hybrid and Amadine are.

 

What I'm not wondering, is about you and Hoof. I feel really good about you guys as town, as you've been posting pro-town the whole game, and Hoof (while I've had my doubts) has given me the belief that he's town as well.

 

 

If you are saying that you were blocked, that means I'm not scum. Cause I can guaran-damn-tee you the Doc would be dead right now if I'm scum. I would not leave that kind of no-NK night possible. No way.

 

My opinion is that either Hybrid or Amadine are the remaining scum.

 

I was planning on doing a re-read of them today (shouldn't be that hard, lol) and casing them for us. I suggest you do the same, and we compare notes.

 

That fair?

 

This, Hoof, was a direct message to you. I was almost certain you were the Doc. I didn't want to say it and draw a kill onto the only person who can stop a NK. I actually figured I'd be the one killed, and I would have been fine going to my grave with the knowledge of you as Doc hidden.

 

But pay specific attention to the 2nd sentence I made blue: if I was scum, I would have simply killed you. No way I leave a potential kill block out there....the game is too close for that kind of sloppy play. If you were not blocked each night, then it certainly wasn't me -- I would not leave room for you to block a NK attempt by me.

 

 

Ok, 5 people left alive:

 

Hybrid

Amadine

Blackhoof

BG

Verbal

 

That is my order of suspicion. I have to go home soon, but I'll case Hybrid and Amadine either this evening or tomorrow morning (EST). We have time here, so let's use it.

 

I'm specifically waiting for 1 person to chime in here. I'm breadcrumbing this so I'm not accused of making stuff up later. Sorry if that sounds vague, but I will explain - and you will see why it is pro-town.

For now, let's just do some ole fashioned scumhunting.

 

There's my major hint to you. I was waiting for you to confirm for me. I was almost positive, but I didn't want to take any chances, so I still listed you higher than BG on my suspect list.

 

 

 

Ok. All in all, Hybrid's game has centered on Blackhoof. Out of 17 posts, 13 have been game-related. Of those 13, 7 were anti-Hoof and nothing else.

 

That makes over 50% of his game focused on 1 player. His only other item of note is the interaction with Ishy and the lack of a vote. That is a little suspicious, and my conclusion is that I'm leaning distancing on that one. Not enough for a vote, however, so I need to case Amadine as well.

 

 

 

 

To be continued....

 

This is my case on Hybrid - also sending you a message when tied in with my prior hints. I didn't know if he was onto you or not, but I wasn't taking any chances with accidentally giving info to scum. He looked to be zeroing in on you from the beginning of the game, so obviously he couldn't have known you were Doc (my assumption). I leaned Amadine after those cases, and now I'm kicking myself. My gut said Amadine, but my logical mind said Hybrid. I should not have followed my gut, and I won't here.

 

 

 

I had a sneaking feeling that BG was going to be the one to die instead of me - it sets up a nice little WIFOM for endgame (which this obviously is).

 

I think we should do careful re-reads and not jump the gun.

 

@Hybrid: you've expressed suspicion on Hoof all game long. Like almost a focus.

@Hoof: you've voted me a few times and hopped off, and say you aren't sure. Don't jump on anybody yet.

 

I say the above because if Hybrid is scum, a Hoof vote on me ends the game as soon as Hy sees it. Same if I was scum - I'd jump on a vote that wasn't me and end the game. It's the same for each of us. I'm trying to do this as pro-town as possible - we need to re-read and gather as much info as possible, share it, and come to a decision.

 

 

I specifically want to hear Hoof's thoughts. There is something in particular that I'm looking to hear. I will reveal what I'm talking about today, so let's think this through.

 

And my final message. The way you revealed seals the deal for me. You are town, and Hybrid is scum. I've cased him, and logically thought he'd be the lynch yesterday, but I made the mistake of voting gut. That fault rests only with me, but I'm not letting logic escape me this time.

 

I can see Hybrid setting up a vote on me with this "I'm leaning Verbal" line, and he made a FANTASTIC play with the reveal and blocking further ones. I'm going to pre-empt him on this, as I'm now, thanks you your reveal Hoof, 100% sure. Logically, to me, this is the right play...

 

Vote: Hybrid

 

 

Actually, I was "setting up a vote" on Verbal for a very simple reason -- unless he counter claims Healer, he's the correct way for me to go by process of elimination.

 

Vote Verbal

 

 

grrr so confusing!

 

im sorry hybrid, but verbal has some pretty good points. if he was scum he would have killed me as soon as possible...

 

lets hope i am right

 

vote hybrid

 

 

 

Final Vote Count for D7:

 

Hybrid (2) - Verbal, Hoof

Verbal (1) - Hybrid

 

 

Apologies for falling off the map... busy work week and weekend. Scene coming...

[John McClane]

Click.

 

I can see the door to the decontamination unit in the basement. There are 2 beasts behind me somewhere... they followed me down here. The only 2 I've seen for the past couple hours. Not sure where they...

 

Click.

 

The final 2 horde members converged on the final survivor. As they approached him thirsting for blood and flesh, he could think of nothing but to wait for them both to strike at him... and duck. LOL.

 

It worked.

Dr. Reginald P. Zaius (Blackhoof), the infected scientist capable of protecting fellow horde members was now responsible for the death of his last remaining cohort... "Ringo" (Hybrid) the mutated Spider-monkey.

 

Zaius stood there over the body of Ringo, gnawing on a piece of his tail... while "Tyson" (Verbal) the non-infected Security Guard, tazer in one hand (RB) and baseball bat in the other (NK) walked over to the blast shelter, when inside he sealed the door and initiated the decontamination sequence. A process which releases an explosion that ignites the very oxygen we breathe... thus vaporizing Zaius, and any remaining possibility of infestation outside of the facility.

 

 

They have survived... and so has humanity.

 

 

 

The non-infected (scum/mafia) team has won.

 

Verbal is MVP, without question. Congrats to all players, on a well-played game.

[John McClane]

Oh no, I have lost.... with two votes on hybrid he is dead....

 

Oh wait, you have to bold AND red your vote, and verbal only bolded his vote on hybrid.

 

unvote

 

vote verbal

 

Sorry verb

 

No.

 

Actually, nobody broke the rules of the game (well, except dead persons coming back already). And I understand Verbs strategy of not killing the Doc, but hinting he knew it, so that he can appear as town. He would most likely have won, if he hadn't forgotten to red his vote.

 

Nope.

 

Oh no, I have lost.... with two votes on hybrid he is dead....

 

Oh wait, you have to bold AND red your vote, and verbal only bolded his vote on hybrid.

 

unvote

 

vote verbal

 

Sorry verb

 

 

You don't have to red the vote - check the rules. And it is a hammer game. Game is over. Trust me, I'm not falling for anything.....besides, you definitely did not have a play like that in mind. Nice try.

 

This.

 

Actually, nobody broke the rules of the game (well, except dead persons coming back already). And I understand Verbs strategy of not killing the Doc, but hinting he knew it, so that he can appear as town. He would most likely have won, if he hadn't forgotten to red his vote.

 

Silly man - I haven't red my vote all game and it counted. Nobody pays attention much anymore, eh?

 

I do.

[John McClane]

Congratulations, mafia. Well done, Verbal. Grrrrr.... I knew you were scum.

 

Thanks, Ape.

 

Thanks Tina! :)

[John McClane]

MOD Thread w/ Setup:

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/p4iGKCMWjDhL

 

Scum Thread:

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/5HXdH32tic5zp

 

No Dead Thread, sorry.

[ed2funy]

Now, why in the heck did I die!?

 

[ed2funy]

Verbal, you one-man wonder.

Blocking the Cop and killing me?

 

*tips his hat*

[bgrishinko]

I feel like it was a battle of wits between you and meet Verb at Tue end. Reading the QT conforms it. Awesome plays. Ya out witted me. But once Ama was dead I f-ing KNEW it was you.

[WWWwombat]

You did beat us well.

 

I still can't believe Hoof voted you after my case I made on you. It was basically hard evidence.

 

Oh well.

 

He trixsded me with his logicalness!

 

I had no hope! :'(

;)

 

Verbal's endgame argument actually had a logical flaw. Why would he leave the doc alive if he were scum? Simple, because he could block the doc negating any threat to the scum while breadcrumbing to gain your trust. IIRC, you knew or suspected the scum had an RB.

[Hybrid]

Once again, I'm sorry to not have given this game the activity it deserved.

 

Well played, Verbal.

[WWWwombat]

GG WP to the scum team.

[Leyrann]

You have indeed played perfectly, Verb. And I hope you will not stop playing, because it is great to play with such a good player.

[Hybrid]

Verbal's endgame argument actually had a logical flaw. Why would he leave the doc alive if he were scum? Simple, because he could block the doc negating any threat to the scum while breadcrumbing to gain your trust. IIRC, you knew or suspected the scum had an RB.

 

I actually thought about bringing that up, but ended up deciding it would make me look too desperate and scummy.

[John McClane]

You did beat us well.

 

I still can't believe Hoof voted you after my case I made on you. It was basically hard evidence.

 

Oh well.

 

He trixsded me with his logicalness!

 

I had no hope! :'(

;)

 

Verbal's endgame argument actually had a logical flaw. Why would he leave the doc alive if he were scum? Simple, because he could block the doc negating any threat to the scum while breadcrumbing to gain your trust. IIRC, you knew or suspected the scum had an RB.

 

 

This.

 

There were a couple things I noticed throughout this game, assumptions people made without a logical basis to support them. I can't think of what they were, since the game dragged so long and I lost my post-it note... but I do think that there were big misses by the town due to the lethargic play speed here, too much time lapse for details to be forgotten.

 

Everyone played well for the most-part though... I love seeing my games come down to 3 players.

[cosmicpanda]

Interesting. I didn't want to post until after the game was over.

 

Firstly, the voting thing. I saw this happen on Mafiascum, too, and there was a massive argument there about it. In my games, to get around it, I try to make my voting rules as simple as possible... I don't even require unvotes. I'm not sure when it became the norm on DM to bold and red your votes, even though it wasn't necessary in this game. The whole episode underlines the importance of actually reading the rules for the game you're playing.

 

Second, the modding thing. Reading the scum thread, I'm surprised at the amount of feedback and commentary on the game the mod provided... Mr. McClane, you're not supposed to coach players!

 

Thirdly, I don't like the perception that there should be a better standard of play on the site, and that the fault lies with newer players. We need new players to replace people like me who leave the site for a while, and mafia can be intimidating enough as it is. We shouldn't be harassing them when they make mistakes. If you want to play on an elitist site, there's always mafiascum. It can be quite fun and deadlines for each day there seem to be only two or three weeks long, now!

 

I didn't get to play much of this game, but good game scum.

[John McClane]

Interesting. I didn't want to post until after the game was over.

 

Firstly, the voting thing. I saw this happen on Mafiascum, too, and there was a massive argument there about it. In my games, to get around it, I try to make my voting rules as simple as possible... I don't even require unvotes. I'm not sure when it became the norm on DM to bold and red your votes, even though it wasn't necessary in this game. The whole episode underlines the importance of actually reading the rules for the game you're playing.

 

Second, the modding thing. Reading the scum thread, I'm surprised at the amount of feedback and commentary on the game the mod provided... Mr. McClane, you're not supposed to coach players!

 

Thirdly, I don't like the perception that there should be a better standard of play on the site, and that the fault lies with newer players. We need new players to replace people like me who leave the site for a while, and mafia can be intimidating enough as it is. We shouldn't be harassing them when they make mistakes. If you want to play on an elitist site, there's always mafiascum. It can be quite fun and deadlines for each day there seem to be only two or three weeks long, now!

 

I didn't get to play much of this game, but good game scum.

 

Regarding the voting thing - this game went what 7 day phases? I feel the format for voting was well-established. I don't even think this little thing at the end of this game should have happened.

 

As for my modding... I didn't coach anyone. If I had coached Verbal, he probably would not have won. Heh. At no point did I tell him what he should do, or did I point out opportunities for plays he could make. Which is what I consider coaching. I also didn't tip any information to anyone on the scum team. For example, Verbal called Hoof the Doc multiple times and I took extra care NOT to confirm it to him. That said, I made no secret about rooting for him at the end, Verbal is my pal, and considering I had a front-row seat to seeing him kick ass in this game - I don't feel its bad form to tell him I'm rooting for him. Rooting for someone is not coaching. I wanted to see the guy putting the most effort in, emerge with a victory.

 

As for the perception about quality of play - I think the play level here would be vastly improved if people stopped playing intimidated by experienced people. I've played enough here now to know essentially by looking at the player roster and isolating the experienced players, or "whales" as I like to call them, how the game is going to go. I think the newbs play scared a lot, and since its just a game, they shouldn't. So when I personally make comments about it, I do it with hopes they will read the comments and take cues to play more boldly. I see a lot of newbs here back off of good instinctive reads, because they are intimidated. Don't play scared.

 

I hope I didn't send the message of wanting elitist play, that was not my intent. I just wanted to encourage people to play the game, and get out of their own heads - stop apologizing for your play, you will be wrong more than you will be right. Have fun with it. Be bold.

[Verbal32]

Now, why in the heck did I die!?

 

 

Because I figured out Hoof was Doc and blocked him. It gave me free NKs.

 

 

 

I feel like it was a battle of wits between you and meet Verb at Tue end. Reading the QT conforms it. Awesome plays. Ya out witted me. But once Ama was dead I f-ing KNEW it was you.

 

I knew you figured me out, and that's why you had to die, heh. I was initially thinking you'd be my endgame buddy, but that had to change once I realized you put it all together.

 

 

 

You did beat us well.

 

I still can't believe Hoof voted you after my case I made on you. It was basically hard evidence.

 

Oh well.

 

He trixsded me with his logicalness!

 

I had no hope! :'(

;)

 

Verbal's endgame argument actually had a logical flaw. Why would he leave the doc alive if he were scum? Simple, because he could block the doc negating any threat to the scum while breadcrumbing to gain your trust. IIRC, you knew or suspected the scum had an RB.

 

Yep. That was one of the logic holes you could drive a truck through!

 

 

 

Interesting. I didn't want to post until after the game was over.

 

Firstly, the voting thing. I saw this happen on Mafiascum, too, and there was a massive argument there about it. In my games, to get around it, I try to make my voting rules as simple as possible... I don't even require unvotes. I'm not sure when it became the norm on DM to bold and red your votes, even though it wasn't necessary in this game. The whole episode underlines the importance of actually reading the rules for the game you're playing.

 

Second, the modding thing. Reading the scum thread, I'm surprised at the amount of feedback and commentary on the game the mod provided... Mr. McClane, you're not supposed to coach players!

 

Thirdly, I don't like the perception that there should be a better standard of play on the site, and that the fault lies with newer players. We need new players to replace people like me who leave the site for a while, and mafia can be intimidating enough as it is. We shouldn't be harassing them when they make mistakes. If you want to play on an elitist site, there's always mafiascum. It can be quite fun and deadlines for each day there seem to be only two or three weeks long, now!

 

I didn't get to play much of this game, but good game scum.

 

Pandy, I take slight offense at this. I don't need coaching. And Ape would not do that, as he's one of the folks who embrace the whole 'spirit of the game' philosophy. He would view hinting as cheating, and I agree with him. He modded it clean, and it was a hell of a game to begin with. Fantastic scenes.

 

Good game everybody.

[cosmicpanda]

Sorry Verb, no offense meant. I was referring to post 28 in the QT:

 

How is he vetted?

 

He said he was "mutated baboon" and it could have been a bluff, or could have been legit. He still has a ton of votes on him, so my decision not to MK him hasn't vetted him as far as I can see.

 

Simply put, I want people voting for a lynch - not lawyerin' for a MK. I think everyone can see that. I also don't think its entirely obvious to everyone that mutated beasts are town yet... if it becomes obvious and the decision not to MK him turns out to screw your team in some way vetting him, I'll make it up to you. You guys will find an object of some sort that helps you out. Cool?

 

For now, I don't want to second guess my ruling.

 

I also think that you guys could be playing this differently if you really want him gone.

 

Anyone heard from Kivam yet?

 

I am one of those real hands off mod types, I guess.