Gateways, the ultimate weapon?

[Mats Spare Hat]

I guarantee any given channeler would find it easier to use Air instead of a Gateway.

 

1.) Significantly less individual strength required to weave even a tiny flow of Air.

 

2.) When you imply that it requires constant intense concentration to maintain such a weave, lest it turn into a club, it misrepresents how intense that weave actually needs to be in order to have the desired cutting effect. We've seen Air used before, in the proverbial garrotte sense, set up for when somebody's walking through a doorway...I think it was in NS?

 

3.) You can tie off Air. You can tie off a Gateway, but if you're using it for the purpose of a cutting edge, it's overkill in the sense that it takes that much more ability to first create, and then taking into account joe blow being able to look and say, whoops, better avoid going near that, or a janey channeler who says ooouuu I sense something.

 

Then you might say well yeah, I'd invert it so you couldn't see the weaves.

 

So, then you'd have gone to the trouble to have the ability on hand to weave a gateway, tie it off, and invert the flows, all for that one cutting edge. Assuming you weren't dealing with a super girl, or other outlier as it concerns strength to wield the flows for a gateway, you'd be dealing with

 

A.) A super girl

B.) Another outlier

C.) A circle

 

All for creating a cutting edge? Dude, it's such a waste...

[Smittyphi]

Can you open a gateway underwater? Think of the fun you could have there...

[pamela]

I love this thread, it's so creative!

 

Yeah, open the Gate under the ocean and let the water flood the enemies. Or inside SG/DM so that the lava flow out...

[Smittyphi]

Two man hit and run tactics. 1 channeler prepare inverted weaves. 1 channeler create the gateway. Go in, fire some fireballs, bring down some lightning and explode the earth, go back in. Rinse and repeat.

[LazyMonk]

It's not just Gateways, how about the the Eavesdropping ward...

- Eavesdropping ward around your feet = Sneak in full armor.

- Eavesdropping ward around a cannon = Silenced artilery(!!)

- Eavesdropping ward around person's head = No one can hear you scream (MWHAHAHA!!)

[pamela]

Yeah, why aren't THEY that creative.

 

Eavesdropping ward around the enemy's officers so that they cannot communicate (although they probably know some gestures).

[Lisa Campbell]

There are Ter'angreal for communicating over long distance in the stash from the Rahad Elayne just hasn't had a chance to work them out yet. No need for gateways for that particular purpose.

[Mandro]

Well, shadowspawn cannot travel through gateways as it means death for them. So your trolloc comment about letting them charge through it and fall on the other side wouldn't work for shadowspawn, but would work for darkfriends and such.

 

We have already seen the use of gateways as weapons with the deathgates and such that Rand used.

 

I too have wondered about the possiblity of using the gateway as a "distance shortener" ever since the Rand got the Dragon Scepter. You could have Archers safely in Andor fire into a gateway that is opened to the Blight on the other side.

 

Not just as a distance shortener, how about as an aiming tool? get a circle of the less consequ3ntial AS to service each individual "Dragon." no reason to realign the carts, just move the location of the gate once acceptable damage has been done at the first location.

[Kahsm]

It has already been mentioned across a few points, but I just want to restate it.

 

I think you're over-playing gateways. Few channelers can even make a gateway. Remember, we pretty much follow the top-tier of channelers. So it's pretty difficult to do, and worst yet you can't tie it off (at least not anymore). So you'd have to hold every gateway you make, which is just going to be more of a drain, and limit your channeling of other things.

 

If you want to slice people up, use that crazy stuff Asmodean strung about just inside the Rhuidean cloud dome. When Rand chased him in, he had to roll under those razor sharp blades in the air that were described as invisible from the front. That's got to be wwwaaaayyy easier than holding gateways.

[Brevsparv]

I think the only reason Androl used gateways for cutting was that for him, it was the easiest way. If he were stronger he could have made that cut with air instead. For him, it seems to be easier to create a gateway than anything else. Androl leading a circle (or by himself, or with an angreal) might have been able to do all those tricks you mentioned, but for other channelers I'd say it's too tiring, especially to create gateways just for cutting.

[pamela]

Hey, guys, it's fun!

 

And, well, aren't we all just a little bored with our channelers lack of imagination, knowledge about weaves and general awesomeness in battle? An average AS or AM hasn't the slightest idea how to do something like Asmo did- not to mention Rand! Thank Light there are some breathtaking moments like that- ... so they just throw those boring fireballs or summon lightning. And those so-called Battle Ajah? Phi! Do they really deserve their name? I know they are supposed to be ready for TG, but is that all they are? In the battlefield, do they actually do anything more than other Ajah? BUT: now they know how to create Gateway, so...

[Xcorpyo001]

Hey, guys, it's fun!

 

And, well, aren't we all just a little bored with our channelers lack of imagination, knowledge about weaves and general awesomeness in battle? An average AS or AM hasn't the slightest idea how to do something like Asmo did- not to mention Rand! Thank Light there are some breathtaking moments like that- ... so they just throw those boring fireballs or summon lightning. And those so-called Battle Ajah? Phi! Do they really deserve their name? I know they are supposed to be ready for TG, but is that all they are? In the battlefield, do they actually do anything more than other Ajah? BUT: now they know how to create Gateway, so...

 

 

Actually, the AS found another use for the Gateways. Teach your worse enemy to Travel as well. They want a fair fight after all.

About the Last Battle.

Since we have several large books of action centered on the AS and their reunification, I think they have to do some awesome things to explain that much space the authors used for them.

Although anything will seem a little far fetched. Passing from being humiliated and totally overwhelmed by a single Seachan raid of 200 soldiers and 50 damane to obliterating everything the DO will throw at them will be a little meah.

[Lisa Campbell]

It has already been mentioned across a few points, but I just want to restate it.

 

I think you're over-playing gateways. Few channelers can even make a gateway. Remember, we pretty much follow the top-tier of channelers. So it's pretty difficult to do, and worst yet you can't tie it off (at least not anymore). So you'd have to hold every gateway you make, which is just going to be more of a drain, and limit your channeling of other things.

 

 

 

You can tie off a Gateway. Grady does this during the planning/deployment of Two Rivers troops when Perrin is about to attack Malden and the Shaido. Grady said that it was easier to tie off the Gateway than to hold on to it (the weave).

 

Also, when Avienda made her Gateway to Seanchan, Rand not only stopped her Gateway from closing, but tied off his weave so that the Gateway remained open.

[pamela]

Also, when Avienda made her Gateway to Seanchan, Rand not only stopped her Gateway from closing, but tied off his weave so that the Gateway remained open.

 

Yeah, but this particular thing he did is of no greater use, I think- according to Asmo, Rand performed something quite unusual.

[Kahsm]

It has already been mentioned across a few points, but I just want to restate it.

 

I think you're over-playing gateways. Few channelers can even make a gateway. Remember, we pretty much follow the top-tier of channelers. So it's pretty difficult to do, and worst yet you can't tie it off (at least not anymore). So you'd have to hold every gateway you make, which is just going to be more of a drain, and limit your channeling of other things.

 

 

 

You can tie off a Gateway. Grady does this during the planning/deployment of Two Rivers troops when Perrin is about to attack Malden and the Shaido. Grady said that it was easier to tie off the Gateway than to hold on to it (the weave).

 

Also, when Avienda made her Gateway to Seanchan, Rand not only stopped her Gateway from closing, but tied off his weave so that the Gateway remained open.

 

That's why I said not anymore:

I asked about why Grady didn't tie off the gateways to move Perrin's troops if he was too tired to keep them open. Brandon says that this was part of the instructions he had, so he didn't want to change it (my speculation is that I think that means it was probably in the notes themselves but I don't know that for sure). He said that it makes sense for tying off gateways to have a cost for the channeller to maintain because if it were so easy to create gateways and tie them off, it could be very breaking for the logistics of the world. If this were possible in the Age of Legends for example, why would anyone need a horse or a wagon or to develop any other kind of technology to transport anything? There could just be tied off gateways from everywhere to everywhere else.6

 

6 It should be noted that this is RJ's inconsistency, not Brandon's. RJ had people tying off gateways, and then later, not being able to do it.

 

Yeah, Asmo says he thought only Demandred and Semi could block open a gateway, which is interesting that he doesn't mention Lanfear or Ishy, hrmmm?

[Justanotherfacet]

God i hope Sanderson flicks through these forums every once in a while. If he reads this thread and implements some of the ideas, the last battle will be EPIC. Even if he doesn't use these ideas, at least it might change his perspective on the use of the power as a weapon.

 

I mean seriously, a fireball the size of a horse (how many times have we read that) was pretty damn ineffective the first time we saw it, surely our heroes wouldn't be so bull headed (lol) as to keep using the same old useless weapon over and over.

 

Plus, surely the mind that came up with 16 different Allomantic metals, Hemalurgy and Feruchemy can invent something slightly more creative than a fireball...

 

Come to think of it, I have faith in Sanderson. The last battle is going to be awesome =D

[FarShainMael]

I love this thread, it's so creative!

 

Yeah, open the Gate under the ocean and let the water flood the enemies. Or inside SG/DM so that the lava flow out...

 

Or open a horizontal gateway under the enemy so that they all fall into DM..

[Kahsm]

Have we seen a horizontal gateway?

 

Remember the door ter'angreal to fox/snake lands, they cannot be knocked or pushed over. Maybe they're similar to gateways and that's why?

[FarShainMael]

I don't doubt that a gateway once set up can't be tipped over, but what about forming one in a tipped position? If it's at all possible, I'll bet Androl could manage it!

[Brevsparv]

The planet is in the shape of a ball and it is obviously possible to create a gateway to the other side of the world (Aviendha did that in The Fires of Heaven). The gateway on the other side of the world was, as far as I can recall, perpendicular to the ground, wich it also was where it originally was created. If there is no other unknown factor it should be possible to create a gateway with different angles on both sides (such as creating it vertically while it is horizontal on the other side).

[pamela]

I love this thread, it's so creative!

 

Yeah, open the Gate under the ocean and let the water flood the enemies. Or inside SG/DM so that the lava flow out...

 

Or open a horizontal gateway under the enemy so that they all fall into DM..

 

I like it :laugh:

[Durinax]

the number one problem with most of these problems, we see channellers open gateways but one end of them is always NEAR the channeller, thus the lava thing, water thing, and others would likely destroy the channeller

[pamela]

the number one problem with most of these problems, we see channellers open gateways but one end of them is always NEAR the channeller, thus the lava thing, water thing, and others would likely destroy the channeller

 

Come on, surely they could quickly step aside? Elayne managed to run away pretty far from her partly unraveled Gate.

[LazyMonk]

the number one problem with most of these problems, we see channellers open gateways but one end of them is always NEAR the channeller, thus the lava thing, water thing, and others would likely destroy the channeller

 

Come on, surely they could quickly step aside? Elayne managed to run away pretty far from her partly unraveled Gate.

For the lava/water that could be a problem. if water gushes out of your Gateway and you're near it -- you have a problem. a flood moves VERY fast.

For other things, like traps or high altitude scouting - you could hide it like Assmo did.

[Xcorpyo001]

the number one problem with most of these problems, we see channellers open gateways but one end of them is always NEAR the channeller, thus the lava thing, water thing, and others would likely destroy the channeller

 

Come on, surely they could quickly step aside? Elayne managed to run away pretty far from her partly unraveled Gate.

For the lava/water that could be a problem. if water gushes out of your Gateway and you're near it -- you have a problem. a flood moves VERY fast.

For other things, like traps or high altitude scouting - you could hide it like Assmo did.

 

Use another gateway as a escape route, open gateway to lava/water, raise a shield to protect himself/herself, or if not possible, jump through the escape gateway.

If they can't keep a gateway open from afar, like Rand did, they can use a raken to maintain his position close to the gate, but above the danger zone.