AMOL progress and excitement...

[Bob T Dwarf]

Odd that the publisher will wait for the holiday season to release the last book...people who have being reading the WoT series will buy the book whenever it is released. People who are not fans of the WoT will not buy the last book of a long series just because it is released on Christmas.. It is hardly a stand alone product.

 

It is one thing taking time to do the editing , however it is sheer stupidity to wait for a particular season to release the last book of a 22 year old series hoping for more sales.

 

Yes, I'm sure that the publishing industry has absolutely no marketing data about when the most successful release points are.

 

 

I am sure both RJ and TOR know how to make money which is why the WoT series was dragged out so much. This series should have be done and dusted years back,it was not because RJ and the publishers got greedy. This might sound harsh but it is true.

 

Yes, I simplified the editing process because I didn't want to put up a wall of text getting into the minutiae. No, I don't really believe that greed was all there was to the length of time it is taking to finish this series. I truly believe that Jordan got lost inside his own head and had no clear idea how to get back on track for many years. Since the books kept selling ( although not quite as well ) the publisher didn't push him to get back on track like he should have. Since his editor was always also his wife she had an impossible choice to make. It's apparent that she always came down on the side of wife and let the editing suffer accordingly.

 

From my reading of the tea leaves it was never Sanderson wanting to do things differently, it was Harriet. Given that situation what do you expect Sanderson to say? That he's against that editing style? Of course he's going to say he agrees with it totally. That he's enthusiastic about doing it that way. He's in a box. There's nothing else he can say.

 

He already used up all his political capital getting everybody to agree to letting him take three months after Towers of Midnight to clear his head and refresh his thinking before starting on the final volume. He also shot himself in the foot in the process because that pushed the earliest possible release date into late winter of 2012, which, as has been pointed out, isn't a great date for a big release. From there it's been entirely a case of people justifying the need to take additional time to "polish" the book, rather than admitting that, this time, the release timing is entirely about greed.

 

Will the final product change slightly as a result of all this polish? It almost has to. Will it be "better" in some quantifiable manner? Who knows, it's a book. Everybody will read something different into it depending on their own personal life experience. For some that will make the book "better". For others it won't change a thing, and for the rest it will make the result "worse."

 

The only real fact about all that "polish" is it will mean that the percentage of the 28 million people who will die due to the delay in release who are WOT fans and would have bought the book won't have that opportunity.

[Rose]

Gosh, you're right! Quick, let's make a petition for Brandon to release his first draft by next month, so that nobody who dies after December 2011 will do so in ignorance of the end of the story!

 

And to think that during all these years, we've been patiently waiting for authors to publish the next book in their series whenever they wished, no thinking of the countless fans who died before seing them ended... Actually, starting a book series should be forbidden. Given the amount of time it takes to write a book, even the fastest author would surely have a non negligible number of fans die before reading the end of it. What a tragedy.

[Guest PiotrekS]

But the new fans are being born every second, so cheer up, folks!

[Bob T Dwarf]

But the new fans are being born every second, so cheer up, folks!

 

Actually, lots of folks are getting smart and refusing to start any series until the final installment has been published. That way, if you like it, you can finish it as quickly or slowly as you desire, and if you don't like it, you can ignore the rest of the series with a clear conscience.

 

As one of the threads around here points out, if you read any genre long enough you'll find lots of books from lots of authors that all resemble each other far too much. Mostly because editors have checklists of things that are supposed to happen in a particular sequence in order for the book to be deemed "acceptable for that genre." You can't really blame them for that. Just like movies and television, it's always safe to go with what you know has sold well in the past before taking a flyer on something different and untried in the marketplace. Publishing gets costlier by the day just like everything else, and no publisher wants to go broke because he took too many risks. But that just results in more and more books that read alike, and fewer and fewer that break any new ground.

 

For the publisher it's a numbers game, and as PiotrekS says, as long as the birth rate exceeds the death rate, the publisher comes out ahead.

 

An author's death or a reader's death only matters to those already emotionally invested in the series, and that is almost never the publisher. Books are just another way to make money for him.

[Rose]

The thing about waiting though, is that you miss out on the whole experience of discovering the series as it is published, hypothesizing, wondering, getting excited at small pieces of news, and debating with other fans online :) If you only care about the story, sure, waiting is better. And for many people, that's probably the best way to go. But I can't help but feel that I missed out on a lot by getting into the Wheel of Time so late.

[Gathering Storman Norman]

[quote name='Bob T Dwarf'

 

I truly believe that Jordan got lost inside his own head and had no clear idea how to get back on track for many years.

 

 

I truly believe that you don't believe that. There is no way that anyone that has read this series more than once can say that they think RJ "got lost inside hoid own head".

 

If you truly believe that then you obviously missed the genius of his writing. Every re-read I do I find things that I thought were just rambling filler that I found out later was essential to either the plot or character development. There were things that he put in tEotW that became important in tGS.

 

What I did notice after tDR was RJ progressively started caring more about arc of the series than the arc of each book. It was like he gave up on trying to write great individual books and cared much more about writing a exceptionally great series.

 

No, there is no way he got lost, he had a clear understanding of where he wanted the sers to go from day one!

[csarmi]

I agree with Bob here.

[Suttree]

From my reading of the tea leaves it was never Sanderson wanting to do things differently, it was Harriet. Given that situation what do you expect Sanderson to say? That he's against that editing style? Of course he's going to say he agrees with it totally. That he's enthusiastic about doing it that way. He's in a box. There's nothing else he can say.

 

Except for the fact that it was Brandon who decided to change the way he does his drafts in order to gain more polish not Harriet.

 

He also shot himself in the foot in the process because that pushed the earliest possible release date into late winter of 2012, which, as has been pointed out, isn't a great date for a big release.

 

Whoever pointed this out is dead wrong. I've worked in Marketing for a major music retailer. Anyone who says Holiday isn't a good time for a major book release has no idea what they are talking about.

[Guest Emu on the Loose]

No, I don't really believe that greed was all there was to the length of time it is taking to finish this series. I truly believe that Jordan got lost inside his own head and had no clear idea how to get back on track for many years.

I have to say I agree with this. I don't think RJ was acting out of greed, and I don't think TOR had him under Compulsion in that regard. Rather, the story seems to have lost its fizz after Moiraine vanished (or, if you like, after LoC), and it seems like WoT had honestly gotten too big for RJ to handle. It's not that any given paragraph wasn't relevant and well-written, but that RJ lost the sense of dramatic tension that drives readers to the end of the book. He lost the scent, as it were. The worst thing I can say of a book is that it was too boring to finish, and a couple of the WoT tomes struck gave me that unpleasant reaction. WoT is a good world, but RJ was not an excellent enough author that I would willingly wander around in it without a plot.

 

The only real fact about all that "polish" is it will mean that the percentage of the 28 million people who will die due to the delay in release who are WOT fans and would have bought the book won't have that opportunity.

A few people mocked you for saying this, but it has merit. We're past the twenty-year mark now. Anyone who was over 40 when this series began is now facing the serious risk of not living to see the end--and many people have already died. Of course, they're not here to chime in to that effect, but it is statistically unavoidable.

 

It's not that authors shouldn't be allowed to write series. It's that, at 20 years and counting, this series has dragged on for a significant fraction of a human lifetime.

 

I've worked in Marketing for a major music retailer. Anyone who says Holiday isn't a good time for a major book release has no idea what they are talking about.

I gathered that Bob was talking about winter 2012 (i.e., six weeks from now), not autumn 2012 / winter 2013. More to the point, if I gather correctly, then he was talking about the majority portion of winter which occurs after the "winter holiday season" that ends with New Year's.

[SharpDressedAsha'Man]

I reckon the holiday release is more of a chart placement guarantee more than anything else, anyone who has invested in all the books so far are going to see how it wants to end and buy the thing no matter what. Christmas is generally a time when things like this are bought as gifts too, so pretty much everyone who wants it will be able to add to the tally one way or another regardless of financial situation.

Plus this is the thirteenth book in a 2-decade long fantasy saga, I'm not sure there's a sizable demographic of those weirdos who would buy the last book first on a holiday season impulse

 

But it's good that they're taking their time with it. Anyone familiar with Brandon's work knows he churns it out like clockwork and with consistent quality, but Jordan's world is quite different that his own (even after having two books worth of familiarity of it now), and Brandon is a big WoT fan himself, the guy just wants to leave a worthy end to Jordan's legacy.

 

Just think of the wait as excruciatingly slow foreplay, the teasing will be worth it in the end.

[Bob T Dwarf]

From my reading of the tea leaves it was never Sanderson wanting to do things differently, it was Harriet. Given that situation what do you expect Sanderson to say? That he's against that editing style? Of course he's going to say he agrees with it totally. That he's enthusiastic about doing it that way. He's in a box. There's nothing else he can say.

 

Except for the fact that it was Brandon who decided to change the way he does his drafts in order to gain more polish not Harriet.

 

He also shot himself in the foot in the process because that pushed the earliest possible release date into late winter of 2012, which, as has been pointed out, isn't a great date for a big release.

 

Whoever pointed this out is dead wrong. I've worked in Marketing for a major music retailer. Anyone who says Holiday isn't a good time for a major book release has no idea what they are talking about.

 

Holiday time yes. But Christmas is about as early winter as you can get. I specifically said late winter - ie. early to mid-March 2012 ( which was Sanderson's first guess for the release date ). Not even the most rabid college age WOT fan is going to spend Spring Break money to buy a new book. That money is strictly for Boca and booze. Or other adult recreational substances.

 

Thus the decision to push it back until mid-late Fall 2012 and the resulting animal fertilizer about making the book "better."

 

I also specifically said that Jordan always knew where he wanted to end-up. He simply lost the ability to put the characters' feet one-in-front-of-another in a direction that led to that end. He got lost inside his own head very like an LSD trip chasing after all the pretty colors the sounds made.

 

Emu on the Loose said it better than I can:

WoT is a good world, but RJ was not an excellent enough author that I would willingly wander around in it without a plot.

[CUBAREY]

WoT is a good world, but RJ was not an excellent enough author that I would willingly wander around in it without a plot.

 

 

The pleasure is not in reaching the final destination its in traveling the long winding road.

 

 

I find myself thinking that you are not really a WOT fan just someone who has invested sometime reading a part of a story and is eager to see the end not because of the story itself but because otherwise you would feel that you had wasted your investment in time in reading the previous books.

[garry1209]

The only real fact about all that "polish" is it will mean that the percentage of the 28 million people who will die due to the delay in release who are WOT fans and would have bought the book won't have that opportunity.

Gosh, you're right! Quick, let's make a petition for Brandon to release his first draft by next month, so that nobody who dies after December 2011 will do so in ignorance of the end of the story!

 

And to think that during all these years, we've been patiently waiting for authors to publish the next book in their series whenever they wished, no thinking of the countless fans who died before seing them ended... Actually, starting a book series should be forbidden. Given the amount of time it takes to write a book, even the fastest author would surely have a non negligible number of fans die before reading the end of it. What a tragedy.

 

I am terminally ill, stretching the d-date might survive mid 2012, haven't started any series in last 3 years, and actually got mistaken about WOT series when I started reading, thought KOD is the last book, and then thought TGS is the last one....lastly mistakenly thought AMOL is coming Nov 2011.

 

And for past few months I have thought many times about writing to Brandon Sanderson and Harriet, about speeding the process or atleast making AMOL their priority.....I do get sad about that I might miss the last book but only sometimes. what stops me? laziness, what to write, and assumption that these people are already doing their best to get the book released ASAP.

 

Life(my life) is not only about this series, it's much much more....but still it would great to read the last book. I am very thankful to all the people here on DM, really enjoying my time here reading all the great and some crazy(and funny) things about World of WOT..

[Guest PiotrekS]

The only real fact about all that "polish" is it will mean that the percentage of the 28 million people who will die due to the delay in release who are WOT fans and would have bought the book won't have that opportunity.

Gosh, you're right! Quick, let's make a petition for Brandon to release his first draft by next month, so that nobody who dies after December 2011 will do so in ignorance of the end of the story!

 

And to think that during all these years, we've been patiently waiting for authors to publish the next book in their series whenever they wished, no thinking of the countless fans who died before seing them ended... Actually, starting a book series should be forbidden. Given the amount of time it takes to write a book, even the fastest author would surely have a non negligible number of fans die before reading the end of it. What a tragedy.

 

I am terminally ill, stretching the d-date might survive mid 2012, haven't started any series in last 3 years, and actually got mistaken about WOT series when I started reading, thought KOD is the last book, and then thought TGS is the last one....lastly mistakenly thought AMOL is coming Nov 2011.

 

And for past few months I have thought many times about writing to Brandon Sanderson and Harriet, about speeding the process or atleast making AMOL their priority.....I do get sad about that I might miss the last book but only sometimes. what stops me? laziness, what to write, and assumption that these people are already doing their best to get the book released ASAP.

 

Life(my life) is not only about this series, it's much much more....but still it would great to read the last book. I am very thankful to all the people here on DM, really enjoying my time here reading all the great and some crazy(and funny) things about World of WOT..

 

Noal, I'm really moved by your post. Hang on and don't give up hope! I've known people surviving when nobody gave them the chance. I'm not a religious person but I'll pray for you nonetheless. I hope you'll read many more series yet.

 

I think you should definitely write to Brandon or maybe TOR. Maybe somebody at Dragonmount could give you better directions where to write. Maybe at least you could get the book earlier than the official release, along with the beta-readers?

[Guest Emu on the Loose]

I am terminally ill, stretching the d-date might survive mid 2012, haven't started any series in last 3 years, and actually got mistaken about WOT series when I started reading, thought KOD is the last book, and then thought TGS is the last one....lastly mistakenly thought AMOL is coming Nov 2011.

 

And for past few months I have thought many times about writing to Brandon Sanderson and Harriet, about speeding the process or atleast making AMOL their priority.....I do get sad about that I might miss the last book but only sometimes. what stops me? laziness, what to write, and assumption that these people are already doing their best to get the book released ASAP.

I do think you should write to Brandon. He's very respectful of the fans, and I think he is an understanding person. I don't know that there's anything he can do, but if it were my choice to make I would try to accommodate your request, whatever it might be. (I presume it would be to learn what happens to certain characters, how the story ends, and maybe see an advance copy.) You haven't anything to lose by trying, except for the time it takes to write the letter.

 

Life(my life) is not only about this series, it's much much more....but still it would great to read the last book. I am very thankful to all the people here on DM, really enjoying my time here reading all the great and some crazy(and funny) things about World of WOT..

That's very true, and it's ironic that in a series about a world without beginning or end, many people--not least the author himself--shall not have been able to see it all. That's a metaphor for real life. We have to content ourselves with our hour on the Earth. It's a great honor, but far too short a season.

 

 

~~~ ~~~ ~~~

The pleasure is not in reaching the final destination its in traveling the long winding road. I find myself thinking that you are not really a WOT fan...

I think it falls to each of us to decide for ourselves where the pleasure in life lies, and not CUBAREY. And what is this nonsense about "no true Scotsman Wheel of Time fan," eh? Behave yourself, man! You are among your fellows.

[Bob T Dwarf]

WoT is a good world, but RJ was not an excellent enough author that I would willingly wander around in it without a plot.

 

 

The pleasure is not in reaching the final destination its in traveling the long winding road.

 

 

I find myself thinking that you are not really a WOT fan just someone who has invested sometime reading a part of a story and is eager to see the end not because of the story itself but because otherwise you would feel that you had wasted your investment in time in reading the previous books.

 

You describe not a work of fiction but a travelogue. Were I interested in reading travelogues I would not be shopping the Science Fiction and Fantasy sections of my bookstore.

 

 

Noal : Thank you for sharing your life and its travails with us. Keep fighting. Keep breathing in-an-out. Keep putting one foot in-front of the other. Be stubborn.

 

Over nine years ago some very good doctors were telling my family that my father would not live-out the night. We didn't finally lose him until Labor Day weekend this year. He enjoyed every day of those nine years and he spent as much of each of those days doing something constructive as his strength would allow. How? By being stubborn. He was simply more determined to live than all the things that were trying to kill him were determined to end his life.

 

Best wishes.

[Stubby]

I am just hoping that he writes that the Aiel 'ride' to war again. I could use a good laugh.

[TheAngryDruid]

I have no problem waiting another 6 months if it improves the book.

 

Was disappointed in a lot in ToM. Many errors. Editing issues. Timeline issues. Structurally. Nonsensical unexplained actions by major characters. No Rand PoVs. No BT? No help for Lan. WTF? Some good stuff in there as well. It could have used another 6 months.

 

I liked tGS a lot better.

 

Maybe it was just the fact that my expectations going into tGS were lower, and then it raised them, and ToM wasn't quite as good.

[CUBAREY]

You describe not a work of fiction but a travelogue. Were I interested in reading travelogues I would not be shopping the Science Fiction and Fantasy sections of my bookstore.

 

Then you frequent an unimaginative bookstore!

 

If you are really interested only in the ending you should not have started on a series that has taken 20 years to complete.

[garry1209]

Noal, I'm really moved by your post. Hang on and don't give up hope! I've known people surviving when nobody gave them the chance. I'm not a religious person but I'll pray for you nonetheless. I hope you'll read many more series yet.I think you should definitely write to Brandon or maybe TOR. Maybe somebody at Dragonmount could give you better directions where to write. Maybe at least you could get the book earlier than the official release, along with the beta-readers?

 

I do think you should write to Brandon. He's very respectful of the fans, and I think he is an understanding person. I don't know that there's anything he can do, but if it were my choice to make I would try to accommodate your request, whatever it might be. (I presume it would be to learn what happens to certain characters, how the story ends, and maybe see an advance copy.) You haven't anything to lose by trying, except for the time it takes to write the letter.

Thank you guys for all the support.....I think I am going to write to Brandon and Harriet, if anybody knows where else sending mail can help, do tell.

 

 

 

 

Noal : Thank you for sharing your life and its travails with us. Keep fighting. Keep breathing in-an-out. Keep putting one foot in-front of the other. Be stubborn.Over nine years ago some very good doctors were telling my family that my father would not live-out the night. We didn't finally lose him until Labor Day weekend this year. He enjoyed every day of those nine years and he spent as much of each of those days doing something constructive as his strength would allow. How? By being stubborn. He was simply more determined to live than all the things that were trying to kill him were determined to end his life. Best wishes.

:) ...stubbornness can take you so far, still it was good to hear about your dad beating doctors prediction by nine years, doctors do have tendency to forget the power of will and Supreme Being.

 

 

 

 

I have no problem waiting another 6 months if it improves the book.Was disappointed in a lot in ToM. Many errors. Editing issues. Timeline issues. Structurally. Nonsensical unexplained actions by major characters. No Rand PoVs. No BT? No help for Lan. WTF? Some good stuff in there as well. It could have used another 6 months. I liked tGS a lot better. Maybe it was just the fact that my expectations going into tGS were lower, and then it raised them, and ToM wasn't quite as good.

no one wants a book full of errors, we just want people related to getting the book out to make sure fans are not kept waiting too long for reasons not related to writing, editing and printing.

[michael.clinton83]

If you are really interested only in the ending you should not have started on a series that has taken 20 years to complete.

 

Makes me think of The Sopranos ending. My take is that it intentionally just ended arbitrarily to remind viewers that the show was a story about going through life, that the journey (not the destination) is the real story. I think an ending like that worked for The Sopranos. I don't think it worked for Lost.

 

I think a good science fiction fantasy story needs to be just as much about the climax as it is about everything leading up to it.